A model in Malaysia, aged about 32 yrs & a mother of a child was given 6 strokes of cane as punishment for being caught drinking beer but she was set free before she was caned for month of Ramzan.
I think Kartika has done the sensible thing to say that she is willing to accept her punishment. As she knows that she has comitted offence of drinking beer, she has taken her caning punishment in the right spirit & decided not to appeal.
She is a 'model' by profession, but her behaviour is far from model.
Her punishment is as per Islamic law of which she must have been aware when she took beer. As a woman of about 32 yrs & a mother, her caning will send the right signal to other young girls not to drink alcohol.
She has expressed regret that she took beer but 6 strokes of the cane on her buttocks is her fully justified punishment.
Hope other girls also took punishment in the same manner to make the world a better place.
I have read that she will be caned after Ramzan month is over.
She will be caned in full clothes by a light cane.
Hope she gets the cane on her bare buttocks by her husband later!!
Aparna

Hope that they won't cane her at all and more then that: hope no state will be managed by religious rules.
And hope that she'll involve the police if her husband will try to cane her at home (hope it isn't legal even in Malaysia).

And to drink a beer is not a crime at all especially when any one can buy it even in Malaysia, the Islamic lows are, for my opinion, draconian.
Actually also Judaism (the religious of my people, I am totally secular but still Jewish because still belong to the Jewish people) rules are very draconian and (thanks god that has no connection with any religious in my views) we mainly not using them in Israel.

Madam Aparna: I regret to inform you that Malaysia leans against caning woman's buttocks (a word seem so fond of using). The beer drinking culprit will be sitting on her buttocks unlike the males. Schools boys in Malaysia are caned on the buttocks and hand. But because of the growing indiscipline of the girls they may be reinstititing corporal punishmnent but not on the buttocks but only the palm of the hands. In light of my obsession over women's fingers I am in no position to judge yours although your attraction seems to be same gendered I do not hold you in disdain. I'm not too sure if her husband has seen her clothed buttocks of late never mind her bare buttocks. I can't find the story about her husbabnd saying he should cane her and not the authorities so maybe someone can post it. Their marriage could have been shaky at that point and that certainly wouldn't have helped matters. She seems to be living in her father's house from my impression.

A story (not originally posted by yours truly) led me to post the picture found in that thread. Let's give credit where credit is due. Is the differences in shades of red due to closeness in time of the photo or the severity of the caning? It would be a shame to have to cane the beautiful palms of girl on the far right. The question has been asked before:

Are the girls are playing a prank on us by painting their palms? I don't think so. Do you?

Kudos to alaric posting this in August 2006 so soon after the picture. If they are going to reinsitute CP they didn't do without it for that long. I'm sure you can make heads or tails out of what they wrote. It wasn't fair for you to decide whether it was a hoax unless you their words.

Friday, July 28, 2006
27/07/06

yesterday din go to school....
lazy mar.... hahaha.... ponteng lorx....
actually ish becoz today they hav workshop fer form 5 n form 6 students....
i m supposed to go.....
buden da workshop ish until 5pm!!!!
WTH lar.... 5pm....
then i dun feel lyk going edi......
haha.........

so today go to school n get ready fer punishment lorx......
all chinese in science 1 n 2 din go sia.....
then we had to face.....CANING....
wakaka.....
actually not something new fer me larx.....
but imagine....
19 yrs old still kena caning.....
wakakaka......

da boys kena da backside....
us gals kena palm lorx...........
not painful actually.....
mayb becoz i'm used to my father's caning edi....
wakakaka......

And more about the Islam:
The fundamental Islam (including judicial caning of adults who drink alcohol) is, for my opinion, one of the greatest dangers for the free world.
I want to recommend a book by a Moslem lady writer from Canada called "Irshad Mangy".
I red the translation of this book in Hebrew so I am not sure if the translation of the book's name is fully correct but it should be something like: "The problem with the Islam".
As an Israeli I won't say a lot more about it mainly because I am really defined as belong to the other side, which could be understood wrongly, but I must say that our soldier "Gilad Shalit" is in a prison of an Islamic organization called "Hamas" more then three years with out even one visit of the red cross while all "Hamas" prisoners in Israel getting a very good life conditions.
So Aparna if you think that the world will be better place by Islamic rules I can promise you that you are totally wrong.
I won't have an access to a computer till the end of this week and maybe more, so I won't be able to write here soon.

Dov wrote: The fundamental Islam (including judicial caning of adults who drink alcohol) is, for my opinion, one of the greatest dangers for the free world.

All forms of extremism, of whatever persuasion, are dangerous, as is intolerance and ignorance of others beliefs. My personal experiences in Iran, Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia were were entirely pleasant. However, debating these emotive off-topic subjects here is likley to cause trouble and should be avoided.

Kartika upon being sentenced. Happier moment found in the image click below. If they really want to make it a painless caning they should let her wear jeans. She must be working out.

If the image doesn't click on this should do the trick from the previous post.

http://www.zainalhalim.com/2009/08/21/kartika/

Hi American Way. I am sad to see that according to the zainalhalim.com site you link above poor Kartika is to be canned after she's been caned - or at least that's what the alt attributes (the text that comes up when you hover your mouse over a picture) on the first two pictures suggest!

An update on the Kartika caning. I say she will be caned. I say she will not make money telling her story. I don't think she wants to burn bridges behind her. She sure has a full array of clothes and accessories.

Rumor Kartika Reality Television Show

Hi American way. Some ecellent completely free advice! Never trust bloggers. The one you link above can't even get pictures right! If you search Google Images for Noorazah Baharuddin you'll see that the picture he (or she) has captioned 'Kartika Dahulu!' is actually the then 22 year old waitress Noorazah Baharuddin, reportedly the person who served Kartika the fatal beer, in court in January 2009. Together with a male she was given the same sentence that Kartika subsequently received on her delayed court appearance on 20 July 2009.

Noorazah Baharuddin was thus the first woman to be sentenced to caning in Malaysia, but she turned down fame and fortune by appealing, leaving Kartika to scoop in the readies (allegedly) by becoming the first woman to be caned in Malaysia (possibly).

However, although the blogger is photographically challenged, I have every sympathy with his or her sentiments. If Kartika is actually caned then doubtless a Japanese TV series complete with true to life reconstruction of the caning only very slightly enhanced for a non-Muslim audience will be syndicated round the world, and Kartika and her Dad will probably own the hotel she was caught drinking in and lots more besides - allegedly!

BTW, American Way, someone called Willy could possibly use your advice on where to look in this estimable Forum, or indeed elsewhere, for details of paddling schools. See the thread here. Don't be put off by the title, he's apparently interested in paddling as well!

Oh dear, where did the x from excellent disappear to? It couldn't possibly be my typing - or could it?

Dahulu is apparently Malay for first, so the caption of the disputed photo presumably says 'Kartika First!'

I think the caption under the picture which actually is Kartika is 'And Kartika now'.

I am happy to see that the blogger linked by American Way above has acted on my advice that he'd got the wrong picture and removed the photo of Noorazah Baharuddin. The stupid form on the blog page gave no indication that a comment had been picked up so I wasted my time by telling him twice!

He has also recaptioned his remaining photograph of Kartika in English. I wonder if he reads this estimable Forum and was upset by the inadequacies of the Google translator manifest in my post above?

Only in Malaysia: Click and Enjoy

Click and Enjoy

Syariah prosecution head Datuk Abdul Rahim Jaafar said the department would not announce when 32-year-old Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno would be caned, scheduled for after Hari Raya, to avoid a "media circus". The department would only announce it after the punishment had been carried out.
"There is no need to publicise when she (Kartika) will be caned. We might do it quietly and will not make an announcement to let the public know. If we do, it will be afterwards. We do not want the issue to be exploited and for foreigners especially the foreign media to accuse and label us and our laws as being cruel to women," he said yesterday.

American Way, you say above of Syariah prosecution head Datuk Abdul Rahim Jaafar's secrecy announcement:

he said yesterday.

No he didn't, he said it on 17 September, and things have moved on a bit since then as you'll see if you Google News Kartika and put the references into date order!

I was fully aware of the date of the news source I copied and pasted from and am unaware of anything worth reporting except the story about the 107 year old woman. I didn't see the need to qualify because I haven't seen anything more current. Have you? I'll keep checking the New Straits Time. It looks like she is going to be caned after all. It looks like she is not going to be doing paid interviews after all. Kartika looks more and more worthy of the pantheon.

Hi American Way. You say above of the saintly Kartika:

It looks like she is not going to be doing paid interviews after all. Kartika looks more and more worthy of the pantheon.

According to this report it may well be the pantheon of film stars! Far from a mere TV series as I reported a blogger predicting above, a feature film is in prospect!

Kartika, however, admitted that she was approached by a producer to star in a movie on her ordeal over the Pahang Syariah Courts decision to cane her six times for the offence.

It is learnt that the producer had met her personally at her fathers resort home last month.

It also appears that Kartika was a Hospital Administrator rather than a nurse as was reported earlier. And happily, press reports referring to her as 'a divorced mother of two' may also be incorrect. Her husband, a Singaporean software engineer, spent the Raya holiday with her at her father's resort home and is described as sitting next to her throughout the time she spoke to the press.

Aparna was so right when he began this thread when he wrote: She is a 'model' by profession, but her behaviour is far from model. She had three beers. She pays a fine and subjects herself to a possible year behind Midnight Express like bars, a sizable fine and a dreadful caning (telling denial on their part). She fully accepts the consequences and does not challenge the laws of God.

In her youtube interview she is reading a spiritual book. Even a cursory look at the title with a book search and Indonesian Google translator could tell you that.

The woman is repentant, remorseful and married for fifteen years. She is a part time model and she holds a responsible position in a hospital as a nursing administrator and was about to pursue an advance degree while raising two young special needs child and married to man for seventeen years to a man. In retrospect he should not have been censured by me about vying for the honors of whipping her. He is Singaporean and shouldnt be judged by her standards and I would be tempted to do the same if she were driving. In light of what happened doing it behind closed doors would have been better. It being drinking and privately whipping her thus shielding her from the media but if they were into it before its their business.

She is portrayed as a headline hugger yellow-bellied sapsuckers lurking around every corner ready to drop their guano on her as they did on Eve. Even a cursory look at the bible could tell you that. Adam named all the critters and what do you think did that bird did to his Eve?

So wait a doggone moment before you turn human beings into statutes for birds to leave their calling cards. In the eyes of this beholder they're not just alabaster beauties but profiles in human courage.

A part time model who walks who seizes every rightful opportunity to parlay a modeling career into an acting one and a beauty queen (Nancy My Space from Courage to Submit) a fiancée, mother and student at four year college. What more do you want from them? They're not like honorary lifetime members of this estimable Forum. It is I who giveth and it is I who taketh away.

American Way. You say above:

It is I who giveth and it is I who taketh away.

I don't interact with self appointed deities, even if they are Honorary Life Members of this estimable Forum, so you'll doubtless be pleased to know that I'll be avoiding direct interaction with you in future.

First though, you are claiming that Nancy Guillen was possibly pregnant when she was paddled, and that she now has a baby. Whilst I am not an expert in this field I see absolutely no evidence of this in the photograph you link under the title 'Nancy Pregnant Possibly' in the 'The Courage to Submit: An Unlikely Role Model' thread - just a fairly well built girl, which Nancy is.

If you are using her MySpace entry to support your conclusion, I fear that you may well be wrong. It seems to be common nowadays for young ladies to refer to their boy friends as 'my baby' and I think that is exactly what Nancy is doing when she posts that she is:

having SOooOo much fun with her baby!

You will doubtless recall that the young lady who posted the YouTube video entitled something like 'I had to get paddled today', which someone, possibly you, linked way back, also referred to her boy friend in that or an associated video as 'my baby'. As I said, it seems to be a common term of endearment used by young females for boy friends.

Unless you have conclusive proof that Nancy has a child I'd strongly suggest that you stop posting to that effect! As a result of the TV series Nancy happens, through no fault of her own, to be a well known figure. Incorrect information of that nature about her, accidently picked up from a Forum such as this and widely disseminated, could be injurious to her.

Google having fun with your baby and it usually means baby. Having a baby outside of marriage is not scandalous in 2009 and it wouldn't be something she would want to hide. For Sarah Palin abortion is the far greater sin. Maybe the dress doesn't fairly reflect her size. If I had to do it over again I wouldn't have called attention to her shape and linked the photo but the proximity of the baby comment and her paddling is another matter. When you My Space Nancy Guillen Booneville with her national exposure you're hardly hiding your identity. She can block access so she can share how much she wants with the whole world or with a few. She is proud of her town that has been the target of so much ridicule and to wear that crown. That was an accomplishment of beauty and talent. A small percentage of Booneville High School students are accepted to a four year bachelors degree college as opposed to a two year community college. That was a far greater accomplishment. Its not about IQ but socio-economic-cultural factors that require more IQ than those who think that way.

As far as being a self appointed deity that would be true of anyone who chooses to bestow such an honor here. Thanks for the feedback and I wish that you would take this tongue and cheek but not the issue of paddling a teenager. That outrages me and pertains to thios esteem Forum I may be a Honoray Member but I'm far from God in many ways.

Has this girl been caned yet? I think this is a storm in a tea cup. Islamic canings are a light caning on the back. In a Malysian prison beatings above six strokes will strip the skin from the exposed rectangle of flesh.

http://www.corpun.com/vidju.htm

The importance of the model's story was to bring this to light. What a wasted opportunity to improve the lives of men.

Part time models attending hotel bars in Malysia (and especially neighboring Malysia) are often part time prostitutes. I wonder if her punishment is really for more than drinking. I don't know her personal financial circumstances. Perhaps she has lots of money and would never do this.

Happy to provide evidence on the above. Post an email here and I will contact you.

Part time models attending hotel bars in Malysia (and especially neighboring Malysia) are often part time prostitutes.

Guilt by association????

I read an account once by an Australian woman who said that at the beginning of her career as a nurse in her early twenties during the seventies she worked for some time as a school nurse in a boys private school in Malaysia. I think it was for the children of the British and Australian settlers there or something like that because she didn't specify clearly.
Anyway, she said that she was often the witness, as required by rules, when boys were taken to her room to be caned, mostly by female teachers. She said that the boys were always caned on bare buttocks and some teachers even took their shirts off for the caning and were thus completely naked. She said that the boys uniform, being a warm country, was always just shirt and shorts. Some teachers only took off the boys shorts and underpants while some even took off their shirts. She described these canings in detail and the difference between how teachers caned. She only described female teachers doing it, so it was either mostly or totally women teachers there. She said a few of these teachers really enjoyed humiliating the boys, like making them stand bare and lecturing them before or after the caning. I made a copy of her posts but it would be difficult to find them because they are on my old computor.

Welcome back Eric. You'll doubtless be sorry to hear that the special background I had for my posts while you were around before won't work anymore due to changes in the Network54 interface.

I noticed this thread began on 9/11. Kartika want to be caned in public. It would serve some good. Only 500 people saw the demonstration. A painless punishment makes no sense at all. Why didn't the woman prison guard cane the dummy as scheduled? Maybe no woman wanted to offend a woman population against the caning and may herself not be keen on doing it? Why wasn't the demonstration taped to educate the masses? After Kartika told the media to go a way the circus stopped but only after someone spread the movie/television show/interview cheap shots about her cashing in or her celebrity.

Methinks there are a lot of things that are not suppose to happen in Malaysia like the 23 school girls who weren't suppose to be caned? Clutching their buttocks. Or the New Strait Times painstakingly publishing article by article repeated word for word through the whole world. They can run their country any darn way they want to but IMHO they want all this and heaven too. They can't treat such a large percentage of their population in this manner. How can they not expect a negative perception without having a negative impact on trade and tourism?

Do you mean to tell me the threat of a painless punishment (absurdity) has deterred the Muslim world that no girl has been caught imbibing since Kartika. She ruined everything when she didn't appeal. They weren't ready to cane the others who are appealing and they never thought it would cause such a stir. How can they sneak her away to the prison along with her witnesses? They are such an orderly society frustrated by the chain of events that they have so little control.

I started with an attitude that she deserved to be cane because she chose to be an adherent of the binding religious laws and lauded her courage. Little did I know that her courage would be required of her after all these weeks including the close call. I made a comparison in my mind that it was like the HRW entering our schools. Biy was I wrong.

This was a good take on it: Think about it. Why have a punishment that is painless? In Somalia, who rapists were caned in a painless manner were seen laughing during caning. Did they learn their lessons? If the purpose is to teach the guilty a lesson, then can a painless punishment achieve this? If the purpose is to shame the guilty, then why cane Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno in private? She asked for a public caning, but the authorities said no.

Kartika Caning Epic

She will get a nearly painless caning. Her punishment is humiliation. Spokesmen for the government have said this. You can stop worrying. This is no big deal.

Syariah Court will not easily amend Kartika's caning sentence.

Larest from the New Strait Times.


HookedonCP. I would agree it is about shame and not pain. Kartika is not only setting a precedent for first woman to be flogged but the next woman will suffer even more. I'm sure they mean fine and imprisonment and not severity of the whipping. Technically she should have received a lot more by Islamic law as in Aceh Province without civic (i.e. civil). It's interesting when the New Strait Times refers to her as a part time model. I wonder of she has returned to her hospital job or her husbands job with Reuters will make ends meet. He probably wished she could cane her and get it over with. You better not question their sentence and it her fate will not be amended. But for Allah's sake get on with it.

Kartika Will Be Caned But When

Dear Aparna,
I dont think that females are caned on their bare buttocks--it is more a British vice.Are the school girls also caned bare bottomed in Malaysia.You said you are a school teacher. You still cane your pupil on their bare buttocks?---Priya

Hi Nallepally Priya. I don't know if you've posted here before, but if you haven't may I say a personal welcome to this estimable Forum.

I don't know if Aparna is still around, and I can't help with your queries about Malaysia.

However your email address says that you may be Indian. If this is the case we don't get many Indian contributors and I'd be most greatful if you could possibly help me with some information.

From time to time here we've had mention of a punishment called Murga or Murgha, which I understand to involve rather painful bodily contortions and considerable public ridicule. There is a great deal about the use of this in Indian schools on the web, but much of it looks rather suspect.

Are you able to say please if this punishment was used in Indian schools, and if it is still being used?

C.P is now officially prohibited in Indian schools,but nevertheless you find a few instances when they are practised,especially in schools for tha underpriveleged and in some stict C hristian schools.It is however very common at homes when recalciterant boys are beaten black and blue by their parents. In India, C.P does not necessarily involve methodical whipping on the buttocks as in the West.Culprits are hit anywhere,especially on the back.Mothers usually punish daughters by pinching their thighs or striking them with rulers over bare tighs.I happened to attend a Christian School where nuns used to punish pupils by baring their thighs\/ bottom and submit to the cane.It was then in sixties.Murghas are still widely practiced. It consists of kneeing on the haunches pointing your backisde up and holding your ears with hand passing under the knees. I can tell you that 10 mts, murgha is more painful than six of the best on your buttocks.
___Priya

Hi Nallepally Priya. Thank you for your most comprehensive and helpful reply. I seem to recall that on occasions when Murgha was previously mentioned here some contributors dismissed it as not corporal punishment. They will doubtless be interested to note your comment, presumably from personal experience of both, that 10 minutes Murgha is as painful as six of the best.

I hope that you will continue to enjoy the Forum and possibly make further contributions in future. I don't think we have very much about CP in Indian schools at all and the Forum prides itself on having an International flavour.

It's not difficult to find contemporary accounts of school CP from India - you merely need to Google something like "school spanking Kerala" - Kerala is a particularly good example becuase of high literacy (and therefore high blog/forum membership) and a strong christian heritage which means that many schools will disregard anything "official" as it's achievement which counts.

Also these are less likely than most sites dealing with CP to be the haunt of fantasists, many posts use slightly old-fashioned terminology which is typical of Indian English.

Hi neilfrommanc. Thank you for your suggestion. I shall follow it, but with some caution! I am a little wary of Indian blogs/forums. Like China and Russia, India has rather more than its fair share of very talented computer programmers. As with all talents some of these people turn to the dark side and become black hats, or hackers as they are frequently termed.

Murgha punishment has made a guest appearance in at least two threads in this estimable Forum recently, and for that, and indeed Indian school punishments generally, I found each time lots of likely looking hits on Google - discussion boards, forums etc. However some of the ones I tried set the alarms on my defence software sounding an absolute cacophony as sites attempted to upload numerous Trojans, exploits and variations thereof.

For the record the two threads concerned were Coodgee Piers and Is Ear Pulling CP?. The first of these threads is largely the province of what our distinguished contributor Mr Alan Turing has termed 'Fun Pesters'.