<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 13 2010 at 7:10 AM
Nathan 

 
The maximum number of strokes of the cane a school pupil could receive was six strokes. In my school day it was known as 'six of the best'. I was wondering how many of you actually received the full six and how it was given (all on the bottom, all six on one hand, three on each hand etc.); who administered the punishment? and other information?

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
Declan

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 13 2010, 10:02 AM 

The norm in my school was for two strokes on the left hand. Repeat offenders got two on each hand , but I never knew anyone who got six.

One boy ( and there were probably others)got six smacks of the slipper. He was told by the PE teacher to collect a large gym shoe from the storeroom. He came back with the smallest one he could find, so the teacher upped the punishment to six.

At junior school there were regular severe slipperings of at least four, probably a few got six . One teacher used to reverse the slipper and smack you with the heel of it, thankfully I didn't get one of these, but it must have caused bruising, which a normal slippering would not.

 
 
Ben Howard

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 13 2010, 10:10 AM 

Hi Nathan,
I was caned 4 times in my school years and the last time in the 5th year i received the dreaded six of the best from the headmaster along with 4 mates who had been in trouble with me. We all waited nervously outside the heads study as instructed dreading the moment when the door opened and we all lined up in front of the heads desk for one hell of a telling off our eyes fixed on the cane that was placed on one side. After which we had to line up on one side of the room and one by one called forward to bend over the desk to be given 6 really good strokes,amazing how quick it seemed as the first two received their punishment. I was third in line and could feel my legs shaking and stomach churning as i waited my turn, it was scary to say the least.Although 15 i could feel tears welling up in my eyes and the pain of the strokes was agony for a 15 year old.It all seemed over very quick after the apprehension of the waiting etc and afterwards we all went down to the craft block toilets to see the results of the headmasters efforts. As to be expected 5 well marked stinging bums on display but we survived the ordeal and as my father said we got what we deserved and thinking back he was right of course, but what an experience with so many emotions.
Did you get a 6 stroke caning Nathan?

 
 
Nelly from Lochgelly

Six of the Best

August 13 2010, 11:19 AM 

It was the tawse, more commonly known as "the strap" or "the belt", they used at my schools. We had to hold out a hand, or hold out both hands with one on top of the other (usually known as "crossed hands" or "doublers")in order to be punished.

The belts the teachers used were made from very thick, hard and dense tan coloured leather, usually more than 1/4" thick, and about 2 feet long. The "punishing end" of the belt was slit into 2 (and sometimes 3) tails, and they hurt like hell.

A normal punishment was one or two strokes. Some teachers asked for the non writing hand to be presented for punishment, but most simply belted whatever hand the pupil held out. More serious, or repeat offences, might attract 3 or 4 strokes, with 6 being reserved for the most serious offences. I only saw "6 of the best" being administered twice. One was to a S2 boy who had been persistantly truanting and the other to a S3 boy who had beaten up 2 S1 boys in the playground. Both struggled to take their punishment, were slow to get their hands up for the next stroke, and delayed the next application by puffing and blowing, hands between thighs or cupping them to mouth and blowing into them.

The sting of the belt was intense to excruciating for about 10 to 15 minutes after it was administered and then started to diminish slowly over the next hour or so. It was something you never forgot.

 
 
Jenny

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 13 2010, 3:16 PM 

Hi Nathan

I had six strokes of the cane on three separate occasions - the second and third time I was caught smoking and once for being caught "out of bounds" wink.gif with my boyfriend. I usually describe the caning I got the third time I was caught smoking as "six of the VERY best" so I think that would meet anyone's criterion for "six of the best" sad.gif Whether the other two sixes could be called "of the best" is open to interpretation.

I also received quite a few sixes with the slipper and some of those could be called "of the best" too.

Slipperings given by the PE mistress were usually through my gym knickers but some (for example, "forgetting" PE kit) were through my skirt. Our skirts were never lifted for the cane or slipper but if they weren't long enough to provide coverage when we bent over (as mine often wasn't) we'd get it through our knickers.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 13 2010, 10:32 PM 

Hi Nathan. You said above:

The maximum number of strokes of the cane a school pupil could receive was six strokes.

At your school in your time, perhaps. However this was not a universal rule, and there are reliable reports in this estimable Forum of more than 6 strokes of the cane being administered in a scholastic context.

You also said of 6 strokes of the cane:

In my school day it was known as 'six of the best'.

I was never caned at school but many people who were, and some of those who have had to administer the cane as part of their duties, seem to agree that there was a difference between 6 strokes of the cane and 6 of the best, the latter being substantially more painful as a consequence of the technique used to administer the punishment. Indeed, my esteemed fellow contributor Jenny makes this very point in her post above.

 
 
Carter

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 14 2010, 1:28 AM 

I got 'six of the best' four times at school. I got six strokes at least four other times. At my school, there really did seem to be a distinction - any six stroke caning was called 'six of the best', but there were times it was on an utterly different scale from any other caning.

The first time I got it, I was caught stealing money from the school library. I'd already had what I suppose I could call 'three of the best' (the first few canings I got at school were fairly tame affairs and I'd developed an idea that the cane wasn't that bad - so when my Headmaster caned me for the first time... . the first stroke of what was my first properly done caning came as a great shock I could not believe anything could hurt that much. I thought something had gone wrong and I tried to tell the Headmaster this tried to tell him he was caning me too hard. I was horrified when he told me that he knew exactly what he was doing and that if I didn't bend over again, I'd get extra strokes and when I continued to argue, he pushed me back down and told me I was now getting three instead of the two hed been planning on. After the third when he left me get back up, he told me very clearly that he knew exactly how much he'd hurt me and he could make it hurt even more and I should just try and imagine what six of the best felt like next time I thought about misbehaving.) When I was caught stealing (and I'd arranged things so another boy had been blamed for a previous theft and been caned for it) I knew I was in for it, and the Headmaster did not disappoint. It was excruciating. Six of the best across my underpants.

My second six of the best was similar, but in front of my entire form when I was reported to the school for shoplifting. My third was in private but followed police attending the school to search my locker.

The fourth one came at the start of my last year at school. My behaviour had improved a lot by then - at least I was no longer breaking the law, still got into a lot of little trouble though. The Headmaster took me into his office and gave me six of the best and told me that I would get the same everytime I broke a rule from now on. I think I'd had about half a dozen 'minor' canings the previous year, and he said that they obviously didn't have an impact on me, so from now on, any rulebreaking and it would be six of the best everytime.

I never got caned again. Anytime I thought about breaking the rules, I just remembered that.

But like I say, there were other times I got six, which just weren't that bad. I'm not saying they were enjoyable! Especially as I didn't deserve most of them. But there was a difference between just getting six normal strokes, and getting six that an expert was intent on making an impression on my backside.

When I give six, I try to do that myself. I don't think I'm as good at it as my Headmaster was, but as I said, that last one set me completely straight.

 
 
KK

Hierarchy of acceptability to students

August 14 2010, 8:30 PM 

Carter,

I am surprised at your crimes and more surprised still that you admit to them, even semi anonymously, here. You should be aware that students at your school have discovered this forum and posted here. You risk being outed at school.

When I was at school there was a hierarchy of acceptability of offences among the students which did not match the severity on the punishments. Dishonesty and sneakiness were generally condemned by all and there was no sympathy for the offenders. Caned thieves were very slow to be accepted back into the fold. Other offences caused the students little or no offence although we might think some boys were a bit stupid or inept to get caught.

 
 
prof.n

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 14 2010, 10:15 PM 

I was only caned twice , once four strokes, second time 'six of the best'.

Are 'the best' different? I would say yes. On receiving the last of the first four, I was told , this one is really going to hurt.....and that was no exaggeration. I was then told : -

'Come back again , and its six like that last one!' Perhaps the fist three weren't seen as achieving what they should

the crime as I've written elsewhere .......'general attitude'.

The sixer didn't come until the sixth form. Again I have written this in detail, but in brief , the head had found posters and literature 'libeling him' displayed in a teaching block. the ever helpful head janitor had provided names of those seen in the areas directly after last classes and he interviewed us all. I could have played three wise monkeys like everybody else , but I didn't. I told him I didn't do it . Accepted. But I knew who did , but couldn't tell him , honor code in the school.


He tried to persuade me . No deal . In the sixth you were suspended , if you preferred caning it was for you to say so. I did.


He offered to give me a one days suspension , timed on a half holiday the effect of which would have been I 'lost' one lesson - double maths. I said no it would be on my school record , cane me pleases instead. that meant under the agreement six of the best. He clearly didn't want to do it , saw it making me a martyr. However my reason for insisting was political . He had already caned two upper fifths for refusing to confirm who was there. I didn't know they had also been insolent and abusive..........they never said that .

After deliberation I insisted on the caning , He did it . I remember peering at his bookshelf , ( he insisted on touching toes, well in my case hands on knees sufficed .) top row and trying to memorize them to distract me from the pain. Not very effective. Anyway he gave me four really hard ones .I felt they were cutting right into me , far worse than I anticipated , and I had to wait between strokes, .....you think.....why did I get myself into this ! I was nearly breaking, and am sure I would have done with two more. But the last two eased off in my view, and I stood them quite well.

When the caning was over I shook the heads hand formally..He told me I'd taken it well, I should be proud, and then let me go to comfort myself .....omg but I stayed unmoved with him!!!. He held an MC . you don't let someone like that see you are in real pain.

But I never went back for another dose!

A fortnight later he offered me a full boarding scholarship for the rest of my time in the school. Was it related ? Dunno.

Frankly I was a bloody fool , making myself a political martyr for the sake of it . Idiot , proud idiot! And when I found out what the fifths had done did I feel stupid!

 
 
Carter

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 15 2010, 1:14 AM 

I am surprised at your crimes and more surprised still that you admit to them, even semi anonymously, here. You should be aware that students at your school have discovered this forum and posted here. You risk being outed at school.


There are newspaper articles, two books and a TV documentary about my childhood (actually they were primarily about other people, but I was on the edges of what they were doing, and I do appear as a minor 'character') are out there. There's no great point in me trying to hide these things at this point. And with my students, I don't. My major 'crimes' were all committed before I was 13 years old as well. I've no huge problem with anybody knowing I was a very naughty little boy, which is not that far from the truth.

If I'd been involved in drugs, or something like that, I might be worried. But the fact is, I was involved in software piracy and computer hacking. Making sure my students know that, gives me credibility when I tell them that it's something to steer clear of. It's not glamorous, it's not victimless, and it can have serious long term consequences - I was lucky I was only 13 when it all caught up with me, because if I'd been even a year older, I would have definitely wound up in court and stood a good chance of going into youth detention.

When I was at school there was a hierarchy of acceptability of offences among the students which did not match the severity on the punishments. Dishonesty and sneakiness were generally condemned by all and there was no sympathy for the offenders. Caned thieves were very slow to be accepted back into the fold. Other offences caused the students little or no offence although we might think some boys were a bit stupid or inept to get caught.


The same applied at my school. I was ostracised severely for stealing from the library, and when I was caught shoplifting, it simply confirmed to everybody that I hadn't changed. I was horribly unpopular for a long time - not just because of this, but it certainly didn't help. In fact, I doubt I'd have stolen at school in the first place if I hadn't been so unpopular. Not that unpopularity was an excuse, but I was totally miserable, had no friends, and the money I stole was u It actually started to change after the police came to the school - when newspaper stories were talking about people who'd been 'hacking into NASA' and people knew I had some sort of vague involvement with that, and all I could say was "I'm not allowed to say anything.", I became pretty cool.

 
 
Rodney Bacon

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 15 2010, 1:55 PM 

Although "six" was a traditional number for maximum strokes it often had no legal basis. Some local authorities specified six, some eight. Private schools might stick to a traditional six but there is plenty of evidence that Ms Thomas at Rodney School, for example, gave more strokes.

At my grammar school only the Headmaster caned, and he usually administered 3 strokes. This was abruptly changed to six with the arrival of a new Head from a well known public school. This was much disquiet about this development, not only from the boys but also from the Senior staff and ultimately the school governors...he did not stay long.

RB


 
 
KK

Maximum punishment 50 years ago

August 15 2010, 8:20 PM 

Six of the best was the most severe punishment administered at my school back in the late 1950's early '60's. I guess it might have been awarded on average once every week or two in a school with about 400 boys. Four of the best was much more common.

There were canings probably every school day but mainly 1's and 2's. Sixth form canings were rare but always six strokes laid on with maximum force. There might have been one such caning a term, if that, on average.

A few boys collected 4's and 6's faster than the rest of us collected 1's and 2's. They were inept and lacking in judgement rather than wicked. The caning did not seem to do them any harm but not much good either. However, their canings certainly helped keep the rest of us in line.

I do not know of any boy being suspended or expelled. Apparently, a good caning was able to fix most things. Mind you, serious offences in those days seem rather innocuous by todays standards. Depriving a boy of his education was seen as a very serious matter.

Our geography teacher had a reputation as a ferocious caning. He never needed to cane anyone in my class in the years he taught me.

I never got six myself and was glad of it. One very experienced boy warned me that six really hurt and was markedly worse than four. His butt was poorly padded and similar to mine at the time.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 16 2010, 12:00 AM 

Hi Carter. Well, I have to say that you'd already given a clue here that you know a bit more than average about computing matters. If you were in on what I think you were in on as a boy I have very considerable respect for your technical expertise! I hope that you won't hesitate to step into our Computing Corner thread if you see a topic that interests you.

 
 
jim

full of?

August 17 2010, 2:01 AM 

When certain the full six cuts of the cane was on the cards I used to be full of fear,with my hands clammy,butterflies in my tummy,and trembling in my black leather lace up shoes.Six cuts mean't there was no way I wasn't going to cry and blub like a little boy instead of the big teenager I thought of myself as.The six excruciating cuts were also going to make sitting and concentrating on my lessons impossible as those stinging throbbing stripes were my only concern.O how I would squirm on the hard wooden seat of my desk

 
 
Nathan

Six of the Best-yes I received the full six

August 17 2010, 7:08 AM 

I did receive the full six strokes of the cane in high school. My Deputy headmaster gave me six strokes of the cane on my hands and typically the punishment was 3 strokes on each hand but I did witness our woodwork master give one boy all six on the boy's right hand. I can never fully understand why the cane was administered to the hands and I would have preferred to have been caned on my bottom instead.

 
 
Nelly from Lochgelly

Caning the hands

August 17 2010, 12:26 PM 

Nathan,

Perhaps it was because your teacher thought you might prefer the cane across your buttocks that he caned your hands! Since when was a decision on where to administer school CP down to the preferences of the individual pupil about to be punished?

In Scotland the tawse was virtually always administered to the palm of the hands, regardless of how many strokes were to be given. This could be more effective than to a clothing protected bottom and avoided the potential sexual element that might be involved for some in chastising the buttocks.

From a Scottish perspective it is surprising how often you English lads had your bottoms slippered or caned. No wonder all the excitement! I would suggest that the tawse on the hands was sorer, quicker and less humiliating and embarrasing.

 
 
Rodney Bacon

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 17 2010, 12:42 PM 

Nelly,

Actually I have heard verbatim of a number of schools where choice of punishment between hand or buttock caning was offered.

At one famous London Catholic school the choice was "hand or behind, now or later".

At Kent public school attended by a colleague in the early 1970s boys were invited to select which cane they wished to be used, the choice included a bat like object.

At a Yorkshire Comprehensive, late 60s/early 70s, both boys and girls were offered choice of hand or buttocks punishment.

I believe our dear friend Ms Thomas is reputed to have offered the girls a choice at Rodney.

From what I have heard most people (even girls) preffered to be caned on the buttocks, albeit my sample is small.

Regards

RB




 
 
Nelly from Lochgelly

Hands or bottom?

August 17 2010, 1:15 PM 

Rodney,

My how you English boys and girls were spoiled for choice, obviously your teachers were far too soft with you! Would you prefer the slipper or the cane, young man? Hands or bottom? Now or later? Hard or soft? Please tell me if it's too sore and I'll do it more gently, or I'll stop right away. Interesting that you have these reports of choices being offered.

Over 150 years ago, when the tawse was administered across the buttocks, boys didn't like the change to having their hands leathered as there was no protection or padding. Perhaps that's why down south many preferred the cane or slipper across the bottom with trousers, skirts and pants to give protection and take away the sharpest sting of the punishment. Nothing like a bit of padding to help protect the rear.

Up here we did as we were told and any choices were left to the teacher. To belt him/them now or at the end of the period? How many strokes and how hard? Single hand or crossed hands? We didn't have to think over the options, all the thinking was done for us. Our function was to obey, get our hands up for the belt and endure what came, like lambs to the slaughter.

 
 
Seeker

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 17 2010, 2:39 PM 

I had six strokes of the cane, pretty full on from memory, from the now infamous Mr. Derek Slade when I was a pupil at St George's School in Suffolk. My offense was to have been caught with a copy of a porn magazine called, from memory, 'Fiesta' (nothing at all to do with the eponymous car, I can assure you!), that had been passed around my classmates and had, not to put too fine a point on it, acquired some rather sticky pages by the time it got to me. I was 13 at the time.

 
 
Nathan

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 19 2010, 6:06 AM 

I received 6 strokes on my bottom as well as my hands and I think that the 6 strokes I received on my hands hurt more than the 6 strokes I had on my bottom, despite that I had received 3 strokes on each hand when I received 6 of the best on my hands. Thankyou for your replies and best wishes

 
 

Carter

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 19 2010, 9:37 AM 

Hi Carter. Well, I have to say that you'd already given a clue here that you know a bit more than average about computing matters. If you were in on what I think you were in on as a boy I have very considerable respect for your technical expertise! I hope that you won't hesitate to step into our Computing Corner thread if you see a topic that interests you.


I'm reading it and I will comment on anything I think I can, but it's actually been about ten years now since I've done any really heavy duty computing (I worked on Y2K and sort of burned myself out). I still tinker. And even then - most of my 'mad skillz' are in areas which aren't that important anymore. There's a lot less X.25 networks around than there used to be and most of the ones that still exist just aren't as fun as they once were - besides what I thought was fun then... well, not a good idea to think of it that way as a mature adult. And the potential consequences are a lot greater than a sore bottom.

 
 
Mclachlan

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

October 8 2010, 5:54 PM 

I received several lower numbers at school normally two or three strokes but in the fifth form I received three "six of the bests" and yes they really were the best, the last time was on thin PE shorts and that left a long term impression I can tell you.

 
 

Six of the best

November 20 2010, 10:40 AM 

From the age of 13 to 15 I was caned 3 times, mostly for disruptive behaviour in the classroom of my
Grammar School. The first caning was administered bending over a table to my trousered bottom. The second
in my pants and the third and final one across my bare bottom. The first two occassions were very painful
but the third was so severe over a week past before the bruises began to fade. I was caned slowly and
deliberately with a good 30 seconds between each of the six strokes. Expertly the headmaster aimed to beat my bottom from top to bottom without striking the same place twice. Every stroke that fell reduced me to my knees on the floor screaming out with pain and clutching my buttocks as if to ease the pain. The headmaster on the other hand was enjoying wealding the cane with great force made more painful by the fact that I was of slim build with slender legs and my small firm bottom confined the target areas intensity. When it was over, to relieve the pain, he massaged my bottom with Calamine lotion to reduce the bruising. This continued for a good 10 minutes, telling me all the time that he was sorry to beat me so hard as he was very fond of me. Looking back I wonder whether he received physical gratification from caning me and watching my buttocks quiver as he beat me. Perhaps, if the caning had taken place off school premises I might have been sexually abused. I'll never know.

 
 
Mike

Six of the best

November 20 2010, 4:31 PM 

I was caned a total of four times at my (boys only) secondary school in the 60s, and on two of those occasions I was given the maximum six strokes. The first time was when I was in the third year, aged 14, for fighting in the playground (any boy caught fighting was given six), and the second was in the fourth year, aged 15, for climbing onto part of the school roof to retrieve a football.

 
 
Your Local Council

Where is hcj when you need him?

November 20 2010, 5:02 PM 

Looks like Norman's tale has given him such a bad attack of baloneyphobia that he's lost for words!

 
 
hcj

How true!

November 20 2010, 5:45 PM 

Alan Turing is quite correct. I tried and failed to find the right words.

I wonder what Norman wishes to achieve by writing such a post?

 
 
hcj

Oops!

November 20 2010, 5:48 PM 

I apologise to Alan Turing for mistakenly thinking Your Local Council's post was from him. I can't think how I possibly made that error.

 
 

six of the best

November 20 2010, 7:27 PM 

the only time i received the cane at school was in my last year,was when i was 17 year old senior boy, the caning was allways done after school on a friday, as to try and mess up your weekend if you had a girlfrind.Senior boys received only six strokes nothing less,mine was six strokes in the secretarys office after she had left, and was allways done in private.

 
 
Your Local Council

Re: Oops!

November 20 2010, 7:39 PM 

Double Council Tax for you then, mate!

 
 

Another_Lurker

Confused!

November 21 2010, 1:38 AM 

I get confused very easily, and I am now getting very confused! Surely Steve/Gavin has already told us several times in various threads, once in triplicate, of his epic caning with his girl friend in the school gymnasium. Now Gavin says he was only caned once, in the school secretary's office. Are there two Gavins and one Steve all sharing the same email address, or did the secretary's office double up as the gymnasium? I think we should be told!

Norman may well be related to Gavin/Steve/Gavin - he certainly went to the same sort of funny school. However, for the benefit of those unfamiliar with the inner workings of this estimable Forum, he does at least have his own email address!

 
 

Six of the best

January 6 2011, 2:20 PM 

Nathan,

I too received "six of the best" at school. This happened on two occasions when I was aged 16 and 17. Both times the caning was given by the Deputy Headmaster in his study while I was bending over touching my toes. It was very painful, although I'm glad now to have had the experience!

On other occasions I, like many in my class, received six whacks across my bottom with a slipper or a leather strap. The strap hurt like hell and left purple welts across each buttock.

The slipper was used more often and in all my school years was the "weapon of choice" for most of my punishments. I received six whacks on several occasions in the third, fouth and fifth years - so aged 13ish to 16.

 
 
Nathan

Six of the Best

January 7 2011, 5:13 AM 

During my 13 years of schooling I received the cane three times. I received the cane for the first time when I was ten years old when my primary school headmistress gave me three strokes of the cane for general class misbehaviour.

I received "six of the best" at ages 13 and 15. My first offence was for misbehaviour on the way to school and for not having my full school uniform on (I did not have my school cap on). My headmaster gave me the cane on my bottom and I remember having tears rolling down my cheeks and jumping up to rub after each stroke so I made quite a display of myself. My second offence was for truanting class and I was caned with two friends. My friends and I had to wait outside our Headmaster's study with our hands on our heads and noses to the wall. He called each of us and administered our punishments. I was the second boy caned and it was horrible having to listen to my friend receive his punishment before I received mine. I was glad my ordeal was over and I don't remember hearing the third caning as I was focused on how sore my bottom was.

Both occasions left my bottom covered with red tramlines and I had light bruising on my bottom, my second caning also left two angry red welts. We were treated fairly by our headmaster despite what personal opinions others may have as to the merits of school corporal punishment. Ulimately I had broken the school rules and I was punished accordingly and within the appropriate guidelines and standards of the day.

 
 

Six

July 5 2012, 11:10 AM 

I was a fair-haired fifteen-year-old in the School House at public school. The Head Boy was a 'blood', that is, good at Rugby Football, Cricket, Hockey etc. And he had a crush on me. I didn't want this, feeling absolutely nothing for him. Also it made me unpopular since other boys thought that he treated me differently. They may have been right - though I was not preferred in any conventional sense.

I had eight black marks, which meant Six. I waited in the day room doing my prep with about thirty other boys. Footsteps coming down the long passage.

A boy enters and, smilingly, whispers a message to the prefect taking prep. He departs. At last the prefect looks up. "Lyons to Fiedler's study". I get up shakily, and make my way back down the corridor, out of the building, past the Abbey church, vast and forbidding. Into the study block, up the stairs. Knock on Fielder's door. Wait. "Come in". He is sitting at his desk. When he swings the chair round, I see that the his trousers are swollen at the crotch. There is a cane, lying on the couch. "Well, Lyons, eight black marks. Anything to say?"

"No Fielder," I reply.

"Go and wait for me in the cloisters."

Back downstairs, along the study passage, knowing that the boys are relishing this. To the undercroft. And wait. Eventually, Fielder's footsteps. He appears with the cane.

"Move in front of the notice board. Bend! Feet apart! Lower! That's right, grip your ankles. Wider!"

I can see him through my parted legs as he moves to the side, and folds back my jacket. He flexes the cane between his hands, and lays gently it across my buttocks, adjusting his position. Legs astride. Trousers positively jutting.

The first stroke - as always - didn't hurt for a second or two. But then.......

The second and third came slowly, deliberately. Fielder's left hand was in his pocket, caressing his stiff cock.

The fourth was frightful. My grip on my ankles failed.

"Get down! Down, I said!"

I looked round, pleadingly. His eyes seemed glazed.

"Down!" he hissed. "Or there will be extra strokes!"

I reached down once more. His breath was laboured.

On the fifth stroke, I cried out. The hand in his pocket was moving more quickly now. Then it slowed.

And the sixth! Christ it was awful.

"Alright, off you go then."

I literally limped out of the undercroft out past the Abbey again. A small party from the Girls School was comig out of the main door, giggling. They had obviously heard.


 
 
GaryJ

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 5 2012, 4:13 PM 

I got six of the cane three times from the headmaster aged 14-15 for accumulated demerits. Bending over, trousers on. Had advance warning but didn't bother with padding. London, 1967-8. The headmaster seemed to regard the punishment as a bit of a chore and didn't hit especially hard.

I found I could take corporal punishment pretty well and once I knew what to expect it didn't really bother me. Preferred it to detention. But the main deterrent to bad behaviour was the fear of a bad report at the end of term which would lead to interminable lectures and a bad atmosphere at home.

 
 

Six-of-the-best...

July 5 2012, 6:16 PM 

I went to a very strict all Boys' Boarding School in the West Country when I was aged 7 in the 1970's. The cane was a feared but daily ritual. As one grew older however (aged about 9) one began to realise that there was real potency in punishment. The early hints of a submissive-dominant role play balance. For people on either side and in between it was often very erotically charged - for the boy being caned / the Headmaster or Prefect caning / Matron afterwards / the other boys viewing the marks, touching them, sensual, sexual, sadistic. It meant many things after those initial split seconds of acute pain! Our School was very traditional so six strokes was the minimum. Never hear of anyone getting less than 6 strokes. rare to get anything else but occasionally a 7th or even 8th stroke. When the Headmaster was especially sadistic the last stroke was deliberately on the top of the thighs just below the bottom. That was never pleasure. So, always six.

 
 
Lotta

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 5 2012, 6:41 PM 

"Our School was very traditional so six strokes was the minimum" says Anthony.

I've never heard of any school with a six-stroke minimum.

I find the very idea inherently absurd but, as you say that minimum was not only traditional but 'very' traditional, I'd be obliged if you'd name me a few other schools that had such a minimum.

 
 
hcj

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 5 2012, 9:06 PM 

Lotta, you are a breath of fresh air!

I doubt some of the recent posters in this thread have ever had six strokes. They would not remember it so fondly.

Gary J, who... found I could take corporal punishment pretty well and once I knew what to expect it didn't really bother me... clearly did not experience what I and many others did.

Perhaps these contributors' efforts would be more appreciated in a different forum.


 
 
george

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 5 2012, 9:48 PM 

Even in the era just after the war I do not recall six strokes as being the norm, wither on a clothed or bare bottom. As i recall six was reserved for the most serious offences like stealing abd bullying. I also recall that as time moved on, six strokes became even less common as boys were not so tough. Six of the cane is going to leave a boys bottom very sore indeed and is not something that i ever came across that boys got use to.....it was a feared and dreaded punishment.....hence it was rare that six strokes were given.

 
 

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 7 2012, 4:39 PM 

"I've never heard of any school with a six-stroke minimum."

I'm not so sure about that, an account of public school life I read years ago mentioned
that beating (by prefects) was the routine, and pretty much sole, form of punishment and
that all beatings were six strokes. As the author said, the absurd result of this was that
a boy might get six of the best for such disparate crimes as having his top button undone
or smoking. If you got beaten it was six strokes regardless of what you had done.





 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 7 2012, 8:14 PM 

David,

With the greatest respect, you really should have spent more time in your English classes while at school.

If a CP regime insists that 6 strokes with the cane (and no greater nor lesser number) be given every time it is used, that may hardly be described as a 'six-stroke minimum' for the simple reason that it is also a 'six-stroke maximum '.




 
 
Worldwide Traveller

Welcome home Lotta?

July 8 2012, 5:29 PM 

Where have you been my doubting Thomasine?

I haven't seen you posting on here for some time - have I simply missed your posts? If youare making a comeback all the fake posters had better watch out.

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 8 2012, 6:35 PM 

Hello WWT,

I have indeed been away from these hallowed pages for some time.

Luckily for all those who value truth and historical accuracy, I have returned with a happy, if somewhat older, heart to continue the struggle against fantasists both near and far, be they sharp as a tack or thick as a brick.

 
 
Alan Turing

Not a minimum?

July 9 2012, 10:28 AM 

Lotta Nonsense:

If a CP regime insists that 6 strokes with the cane (and no greater nor lesser number) be given every time it is used, that may hardly be described as a 'six-stroke minimum' for the simple reason that it is also a 'six-stroke maximum '.

I feel that the services of a mathematician are needed here.

This is both a six-stroke maximum, and also a six-stroke minimum. Both statements are true; there is no contradiction between them.

It's possible to believe that neither statement is true; but that belief would be erroneous. The reason hinges on a subtlety of logic, about which Bertrand Russell had something to say. I won't bore you with this now. (Although you could provoke me ...)

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 9 2012, 12:03 PM 

Alan,

You say "This is both a six-stroke maximum, and also a six-stroke minimum. Both statements are true; there is no contradiction between them."

With the greatest respect, I did not say differently.

I said it can hardly be described as a 6-stroke minimum - because that description, no matter how accurate in the eyes of mischievous mathematicians, is grossly misleading if used in everyday, non-mathematical life (where most of us tend to hang out if given the choice). It's like telling people you were the tallest boy in your class when, in fact, you were 4' 2" and the only boy in the class.

And a pox on all philosophers!

I was once at a gathering where I was introduced to a philosopher.

"What's it all about then?" I asked.

And, do you know what?

He couldn't tell me!

 
 
Alan Turing

Plagiarism alert!

July 9 2012, 1:24 PM 

From the introduction to What's It All About: Philosophy and the Meaning of Life by Julian Baggini, mentioned here.

"You're T. S. Eliot," said a taxi driver to the famous poet as he stepped into his cab. Eliot asked him how he knew. "Ah, I've got an eye for a celebrity," he replied. "Only the other evening I picked up Bertrand Russell, and I said to him, 'Well, Lord Russell, what's it all about?' And, do you know, he couldn't tell me."

Lotta, you're not Baggini, are you? happy.gif

 
 
David Shaw

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 9 2012, 5:57 PM 

Nice to see Lotta Nonsense is still making such useful and valuable contributions to this board. See you all again in about a year.

 
 
Mike

swollen palms

July 17 2013, 8:49 AM 

I went to a catholic grammar in north london during the seventies and often received various types of a caning. In the 1st year we were told on the Monday to report to the year master on the following Friday afternoon for the strap, myself and another lad turned up after worring about it all week, he didn't say anything just hands out, we both held them steady then crack down came the strap so hard I yelped then my other hand got, a thick red swelling came up instantly. It hurt for about half hour afterwards. Then in the 2nd year I got six really hard wacks of the cane across my bare bottom for doing I never knew what. I will finish this when i have more time MB

 
 
Trog 53

would have been 6

September 29 2013, 4:19 PM 

I received my one and only caning at the hands of our Deputy Head, aged just short of 15 - in 1967. School in north Cheshire. My first visit to him, but he told me that my age (4th form) dictated that it would be the senior cane. And he announced that my crime - stealing club funds (for which I have felt extreme shame ever since) without doubt warranted the "full six", even though it was my first time.

But he also asked what would be the reaction of my parents. I said that I was sure I would be punished at home also that night - my father kept a gymshoe for use on me. In that case he reduced the award, very fairly, I thought, to only 3 strokes. Perhaps he was really making allowance for the shock that it would be for my first time.

Got it on seat of trousers, bent over armchair. I stupidly got up after the second (couldn't take it), so ended up getting 4. But again to my shame, I never told them at home.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: would have been 6

September 29 2013, 10:35 PM 

Hello Trog 53,

I haven't noted a previous occurrence of that pseudonym here, so if the above is your first post may I please say a personal welcome to the Forum. I hope that you will find other topics on which you wish to contribute, there are currently some 2859 threads available, with the number growing all the time, and of course you can always start your own if you wish.

A very honest account of your caning. No heroics. It quite clearly hurt a great deal, and you are not afraid to admit that. Was the cane used often at the school, so that you had foreknowledge from other pupils of what it would entail, or were you unaware of how things might go when you entered the Deputy Head's room?

 
 
Trog 53

the Deputy Head

September 30 2013, 9:42 AM 

Our boys Deputy Head (no cp for girls) was the one responsible for serious discipline infringements. Being on report to him (Thurs after school) almost inevitably meant the cane. So I knew what I was in for. He was the only one used a cane - otherwise the slipper (gymshoe) was in frequent use. There were not many canings - perhaps an average of 2 a week, judging by the queues. There was one in front of me, that day.

I was scared stiff. I have to admit, I cried during and after. He showed me the punishment book entry - but I could hardly see it.

It was even more painful that I had expected. My failure to keep down meant that I had the extra stroke lower than perhaps he had originally intended - just above the top of my legs. Serious tramlines.

And I was supposed to tell my father, to get his slipper on top of that. I'm afraid I couldn't face that.

 
 
jd 19

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

September 30 2013, 8:46 PM 

Hallo Trog 53

I can not image many 14 year olds willingly telling their father they have had reduced punishment at school so need to receive punishment at home! There is no way on this earth I would have told my parents had I been in the same position as you. Fortunately for me my parents did not subscribe to the idea punishment at school meant punishment at home but even so I never informed them when I had been in trouble.

I feel it was very unfair to give extra strokes for failure to stay down or keeping a hand held out during caning. Everyone has different reactions to pain, if one person can keep their teeth gritted and stay still, well good for them, but some can not cope so well and jump up or remove hand. If they are given extra stokes for this, then it seems to me they are being punished for an involuntarily reaction to pain.










 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: the Deputy Head

October 1 2013, 12:35 AM 

Hello Trog 53,

Thank you for responding to my queries. Your school seems to have been both selective and strict in its caning policies.

First no CP for girls, a subject on which there has been much discussion here and which many people regard as unfair, and even as disadvantageous to girls, though it does seem to have been policy at a lot of English schools. Cases have been reported here where under those circumstances girls have actually tried to get boys caned, secure in the knowledge that they were safe from the penalty. Did you encounter anything of that sort at all?

Second the application of extra strokes for failing to hold position while being punished. Like jd 19 (who incidentally if you missed her account did get the full six of the best for something that wasn't her fault) I think this is most unfair. I assume the rationale for it was that the person being caned had failed to obey the instruction to stay in a particular posture throughout and thus deserved extra punishment.

But as jd 19 notes, reactions to pain vary enormously. I know people who are instantly doubled up with pain at the slightest trauma, whereas in my case you can whack me over the head with a concrete block and five minutes later I'll turn round and say, 'hey, be careful with that thing'. (Well almost, and the dinosaur jokes have all been done before, thank you! happy.gif) However as I was never caned I don't know if the pattern would have been the same. Clearly ritually inflicted pain is in a different category from that routinely encountered in everyday life.

I wonder if there was also a view on the part of the person inflicting the punishment that by moving, standing up or whatever, the severity of the punishment had somehow been reduced, and the extra stokes were to compensate for this. I'll have to pass on that one in favour of those who've been caned at school. For the same number of strokes is a caning where you briefly break position less painful than one where you maintain the posture as instructed?

 
 
Jenny

Re: would have been 6

October 1 2013, 4:18 PM 

Hi Trog 53

Welcome to the forum.

I received my one and only caning at the hands of our Deputy Head, aged just short of 15 - in 1967. School in north Cheshire. My first visit to him, but he told me that my age (4th form) dictated that it would be the senior cane. And he announced that my crime - stealing club funds (for which I have felt extreme shame ever since) without doubt warranted the "full six", even though it was my first time.

I find it interesting that he totally omitted to mention the most significant factor affecting his decision to cane you rather than impose some other sanction. In my opinion, that offence did warrant the cane but it's clear, from your subsequent post, that the school didn't agree. That offence, per se, was not considered serious enough to always be punished by caning. Another child, perhaps with a worse record than you, could have committed exactly the same offence, possibly as your accomplice or even as the instigator, but would not be caned.

Personally, I would be very put out if I had been caned for something a classmate just got a telling off for, especially if that classmate had a worse record than I (unlikely I admit but not impossible) but it's been claimed that boys don't think like that. I've never met one who would have been (or was) happy if (or when) that happened so I be interested to know how you would have felt if that had happened.


 
 
Trog 53

movement and differentials

October 1 2013, 10:38 PM 

Thanks to those who have responded with interest in my predicament!

I have to say that I was not unduly surprised about the extra stroke for trying to stand up. He did tell me beforehand to stay bending over, otherwise he would simply take the stroke again. But the sharpness of the pain - to which I was completely unaccustomed (although warned by friends) - made me react like that. I wish my memory had over-ridden my legs. I can't comment on the comparative effect of interrupted or not canings, having only had the former. But the last stroke, as I commented above, was by far the most painful, and the marks the longest lasting - because it was so low down, a consequence of being last (and having to be fitted in?)

As far as the differential boys and girls approach, I don't recall any particular ill-feeling, although a certain amount of vicarious interest in the events from the other sex. In my case, my colleague in crime (as the joint recipient of the proceeds, if not the action) was my gf - who got off scott free as far as the school was concerned. She was not as lucky at home, when her mother worked out what had happened, and why.

Jenny - I'm afraid I can't see how you can conclude that the school took a different view from the Dep. Head. What did I say that led you to that conclusion?

 
 
Jenny

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

October 2 2013, 7:34 PM 

Hi Another_Lurker

Cases have been reported here where under those circumstances girls have actually tried to get boys caned, secure in the knowledge that they were safe from the penalty.

I think that was a lot more prevalent than anyone dare admit.

I believe I'm a fair minded person due, at least in part, to my being brought up in a fair, egalitarian environment. As such, I find that type of behaviour totally reprehensible. However, I can't in all honesty say I definitely wouldn't have engaged in the same sort of behaviour if I had attended an abusive, sexist school.

How many men hear can honestly say that they definitely wouldn't have done anything like that if they had attended a co-ed school that had an inviolable policy of only caning girls, where boys would never be subject to any punishment more severe than a mild telling off?


 
 
Jenny

Re: movement and differentials

October 2 2013, 7:54 PM 

Hi Trog 53

Jenny - I'm afraid I can't see how you can conclude that the school took a different view from the Dep. Head. What did I say that led you to that conclusion?

In your second post you said the school had "no CP for girls". I could have done exactly what you did but, in your school, I wouldn't have been caned for it. (I would have in my school though.) It follows, therefore, that the school did not consider any offence, including the specific offence of stealing club funds, warranted a caning. It was only if an offence was committed together with (the offence of) being a boy that the cane was considered necessary at all.

You also said (in your last post) -
In my case, my colleague in crime (as the joint recipient of the proceeds, if not the action) was my gf - who got off scott free as far as the school was concerned.

I'm guessing the school knew of her involvement and that she knew the money had been stolen.

What do you think would have happened if the roles had being reversed? If she had stolen the money and given you half of it, would she have been caned and you let off scott free? Of course not! As you said, there was "no CP for girls". Would, perhaps, you both have been let off? I very much doubt it because, as the school obviously didn't believe CP was necessary (as evidenced by approximately half the school being exempt), there was some ulterior motive for using it. It's more likely you would have been caned for both your offences.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

October 2 2013, 10:44 PM 

Hello Jenny,

I trust that you did not think that I was deprecating reports that in schools where girls were exempt from CP they sometimes attempted to get boys caned or otherwise corporeally punished for their amusement.

I have no personal experience of this, because throughout the period I was educated with girls (Infant and Junior school) both boys and girls were subject to corporal punishment. However, you and others have reported instances of this phenomenon, and that's quite good enough for me. If further proof were needed I have seen references to it in fictional literature of the School CP genre, and as Prof.n informs us regularly, that is clear evidence that it must have happened.

 
 
Jenny

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

October 2 2013, 11:01 PM 

Hi Another_Lurker

I trust that you did not think that I was deprecating reports that in schools where girls were exempt from CP they sometimes attempted to get boys caned or otherwise corporeally punished for their amusement.

Not at all, I was just expanding on the statement.

I have no direct personal experience of it either because I didn't attend a sexist school. I have, however, met women (far too many of them) who admit to doing that type of thing when they were at school. Some even boast about it but, in my experience, most are ashamed of what they did.

I'd still like to know what proportion of men can honestly say they wouldn't have done such a thing if the sexes had been reversed.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: movement and differentials

October 3 2013, 12:20 AM 

Hello Trog 53,

Thank you for the further responses to my queries. You are not alone in having found a 'low stroke' during a caning extremely painful. I seem to recall my very greatly esteemed fellow contributor Jenny, now an active participant in this thread, commenting on this with regard to one of her canings. In another thread a Deputy Headmistress is reported as actually threatening a low stroke as a penalty if a girl stood up again during her caning.

The latter incident would suggest that at least some of those administering canings used this ploy deliberately to heighten the pain, and in that case it would I suppose be logical to deploy it if the person being caned was proving less than co-operative. Other discussion here has suggested that full co-operation with the punishment process by the recipient is an important part of the ritual of atonement and reintegration that corporal punishment represents.

I doubt that we will get many comments on whether standing up briefly during a caning in a bent over posture makes a significant difference to the overall pain of the experience (assuming no penalty strokes of course). But in this estimable Forum such predictions are often confounded - especially if I am doing the predicting! happy.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

October 3 2013, 1:09 AM 

Hello Jenny,

With regard to the vexatious issue of causing a member of the opposite sex to be caned at school when oneself exempt by virtue of sex you said:

I'd still like to know what proportion of men can honestly say they wouldn't have done such a thing if the sexes had been reversed.

Hmm, even with our new and excellent level of activity (is it the darker evenings in the UK?) I don't imagine that there will be enough responses to be statistically significant and satisfy your curiosity. However, as noted above, I can be wrong about these things, and to encourage take-up I'll start the ball rolling.

I can't really imagine that I would have done that unless:
  1. The girl had done something really unpleasant to me.

  2. I could readily convince myself that most of my fellow pupils would agree that she should be severely punished for that action.

  3. I was confident that I could engineer her caning without it being associated with me.

  4. The caning would be conducted in class so that I'd get to see it.
And then I just might have done. However, the unlikely nature of requirement 4 means that however obnoxious the girls were, in practice as regards engineered canings they'd have been safe from me.

 
 
KK

La bastonnade des filles

October 3 2013, 2:23 AM 

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=CHP18900222.2.40

Un incident de sensation un peu a eu lieu dans une école publique dans la ville hier. Il semble qu'un nouveau professeur adjoint a mis en place une pratique de la bastonnade des filles, et en tant que tel mode de punition n'avait jamais été exercé à l'école, au moins par un enseignant, son comportement excité l'indignation vive de la part des garçons . En conséquence, tandis qu'il a été bastonnade une des filles, hier, il a été attaqué par trois des garçons, qui bondit sur lui avec tant de vigueur qu'il a dû se défendre contre leurs attaques.

 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

October 3 2013, 2:43 PM 

Hi Jenny

You said I'd still like to know what proportion of men can honestly say they wouldn't have done such a thing if the sexes had been reversed.
I am very sure I would not have done this. However some certainly would, possibly even if they were caned themselves. I have to say that it was my immediate thought when I read of Rebecca Redlands's 4th caning here .

When I was in first year (age 12) the teacher went out and the class made some noise. He came back and said calmly that if it happened again he would cane the whole class. The concept excited a couple of the regularly caned so much that as soon as we left the class they immediately began planning to see how they could make it happen.

 
 

6 cuts

October 21 2013, 5:35 AM 

My grey shorts clad bottom felt horribly exposed.I sensed the headmaster raise the cane and then heard the SW00SH as the cane slashed across those shorts.
WHACKK!
I felt the impact but for a brief moment I felt nothing, then the cut came alive, alive with a searing stinging pain that raced along the stripe with the speed of a bush fire.I bellowed in agony, unable to believe the pain, it was much worse than I'd expected. Just as the stinging was reaching its most excruciating point the cane sliced in again.
WHACKK!
I could feel tears beginning to trickle involuntarily out of his closed eyes. I felt the headmaster rest the cane across the middle of my shorts and gripped the bar of the chair even tighter my knuckles turning white.
WHACKK!
The third cut seemed to hurt even more than the first two
WHACKK!
my hands left the bar, to go to my caned bum. Somehow I forced them back. I felt my legs kicking and I seemed to have lost control over my body. I had started to cry audibly.
WHACKK!
AAAARRRRGHHH.
WHACKKK!!
It was the hardest stroke yet and sounded like a pistol shot and my hands went straight to my bottom.I could feel how wealed and swollen it was through the material of my shorts and underpants and I tried to bring myself under control.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: 6 cuts

October 22 2013, 3:46 AM 

Hello bottomrubber,

I don't recall anyone with that pseudonym posting before, so on the assumption that your two contributions yesterday were your first here may I please say a personal welcome to the Forum.

You certainly have a highly dramatic literary style, and I'm not absolutely clear whether you are describing personal experiences or trying your hand at flagellation stories, especially with the 'I could feel tears beginning to trickle involuntarily out of his closed eyes' bit. If well written and believable both genre are equally welcome here I believe, though some of our participants get rather hot under the collar when they can't tell which is which and the writer won't tell them! happy.gif

Your use of 'cuts' and your email address suggest that you are from Australia. If that is the case I should perhaps warn you that a sizeable minority of our readership believe, for whatever strange reasons, that Australia is in all respects identical to the UK. This can lead to unfortunate complications, and sometime has. sad.gif

I look forward to more of your excellent literary efforts. Me, I like a bit of schoolgirl fladge or punishments administered by beautiful but strict school mistresses to errant young males to pass the time in the intervals between annoying American Way, wink.gif so if you were ever at a mixed school or encountered one of said beautiful but strict schoolmistresses ......... happy.gif

 
 

form 3 canings

October 22 2013, 4:25 AM 

At 14 I was still going to school in the same shorts I had started with in form 1...because I was a "growing boy" this meant those shorts were getting shorter and tighter and also the wear made them fit like a second skin... so you can imagine they offered minimal protection when spotted with a shanghai or as we called it a ging in my locker...A teacher walked past...unluckily for..me....result.......6 of the very best....I could barely sit down for the rest of the day....and over the..next 2 was very very uncomfortable doing so..................just as when I was caught smoking....with 4 others....I was 4th in the queue...I was a trembling mess....before getting the 6 cuts.....after getting them I danced about I can assure you......also that year I got 3 cuts for being sent out of class for talking...I counted myself lucky it was 3 but I still cried

 
 
jd 19

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

October 22 2013, 11:34 PM 



I had to google what a Shanghai might mean in this context, a catapult Yes?

Never wise to leave things lying about in a locker in my opinion. We had locker searches at school but for some reason never bag searches. Just used to take anything I didn`t want found around with me in my bag happy.gif

 
 
Pete1951

Six was normal

October 25 2013, 10:20 AM 

I have just joined and found this post. I went to a boarding school in the 1960's and got the full 6 of the best on 2 occasions. The punishments were carried out in our dormitory before bed and in the first 2 years were over pyjamas which offered scant protection. In the last 3 years they were removed and given on the bare bottom. Normally the caning was administered by the dorm teacher but for serious offences it was the headmaster with matron as a witness. I got 6 from the dorm teacher who was a lady and 6 from the headmaster.

The first occasion was for repeated bad behaviour in my third year and Mrs F gave me 6 of the best on my bare bottom. It was done in front of my 9 mates and I was left to sleep on my stomach because of the pain.

My second offence was smoking with 4 mates and the head sent us to our dorm to await our fate. We were ordered to get ready for bed even though it was only mid afternoon. He arrived about an hour later with matron. We were ordered to drop our bottoms and lined up. I was fourth in line and watched spellbound as he beat the first 3 lads. He hit much harder and used a longer cane than Mrs F. I was then ordered to bend over the chair back and put my hands on the seat while I got the full 6. I had never experienced pain like it and struggled to stay in place. When it was finished I was told to stand at the end of my bed. I waited as the last lad got whacked and then we were told to turn so matron could check us before being to to go to bed until teatime We all laid face down and there was a lot of bottom rubbing. The marks were more noticeable than any previous caning I got. At teatime it was a struggle to sit.

I was very glad that it was a boys school because the thought of girls seeing our embarrassment would have been too much.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

October 26 2013, 12:55 AM 

Hello jd 19,

You said above with regard to an earlier contribution by bottomrubber:

I had to google what a Shanghai might mean in this context, a catapult Yes?

Now I really should have done that! I thought a Shanhai was some sort of pocketable cosh or sap, and wondered what on earth a schoolboy was doing with such a thing.

A once prolific contributor here used to recount a rather charming incident from his Junior School days involving a catapult and a search for it by teachers. I was always much impressed by the thoughtful way he rewarded his protector. happy.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Six was normal

October 26 2013, 12:56 AM 

Hello Pete1951,

As you say that you have just joined I take it that yesterday's two posts were your first here. If so may I please extend a personal welcome to the Forum and express the hope that you will find many other opportunities to contribute.

It is indicative of the way things have changed in this estimable Forum that your above post was made over 12 hours ago, and absolutely nobody has claimed that pupils were never caned on the bare in UK schools. Once upon a time the thread would have been swamped with 'em! happy.gif You do not in fact say where you were at school, but the mere conjunction of the words 'cane' and 'bare' was enough to trigger our then legion of angry deniers.

In fact into the 1950s and 1960s, in England at least, it wasn't particularly rare in just the sort of school you describe, boys' boarding schools, mostly the smaller variety. Somewhat unusual in your case, given that on one occasion you were caned by a female teacher. However doubtless the boarding school situation and her position as dormitory teacher meant that your day to day relationship with Mrs F was rather different, and perhaps less conducive to embarrassment on your part, than that which might have subsisted had she been just a class or subject teacher. You make it clear in your other post that only dormitory teachers or the Headmaster carried out such punishments.

It would be interesting and useful if you could clarify some details. A rough indication of where the school was, country, region, no more than that unless you wish otherwise, and confirmation that it was a private school not a state school if it was in the UK. It would also be instructive to know the size of the school, roughly how many pupils, and were they all boarders? How big were the dormitories, and did each dormitory have its own dormitory teacher, or was this an overall post for the school? Roughly how frequent were canings? Finally, I take it that the pyjama trousers down routine applied to all canings in the last three years, not just to the six stroke punishments?

You say:

I was very glad that it was a boys school because the thought of girls seeing our embarrassment would have been too much.

Not really a problem though, as you indicate that all canings were in the dormitories. I have seen it suggested that Summerhill had mixed dormitories for very young children at one time, but other than that possibility I can't imagine that even the most avant garde boarding school would institute such a revolutionary feature. Most mixed boarding schools kept dormitories for boys and girls as far apart as possible and stationed armed guards between them at night - well almost! happy.gif

Regarding your comment on potential embarrassment, we did have a chap here once who claimed to have been caned naked in front of the whole school at a mixed English public school. I don't think anyone took him seriously, even though he apparently kept his slippers on! happy.gif One day I'll track down the post again, it was truly hilarious. But wait ...... thinks ....... it's easy now with Google! Yes, here it is in the punishment witnessed by females thread!

 
 
Pete1951

Further information

October 27 2013, 2:14 PM 

Hello Another_Lurker,
Thank you for the welcome.
I was at a private small boarding school from 1963 until 1968 in southern England. There were 10 lads in each dorm and 2 dorms per year group. This made a total of 20 lads per year for the 5 years. There were 11 teachers including the headmaster and each dorm had a separate teacher in charge. The same teacher stayed with the dorm throughout the school so I had Mrs F for 5 years. Mrs F was the only female teacher at the school and was married to the maths teacher. She taught foreign languages, art and music. The relationship was unusual in that she was a friend in times of need as well as our teacher. The school generally considered us lucky having Mrs F because she was a fairer teacher than some of the male teachers and especially better than the headmaster. Also I had come from a state primary school where the large majority of teachers were female so I was used to them being around. I got my fair share of canings and slipperings from them and was described as boisterous by one of them. It was for this reason that I was sent to the boarding school. The main difference between primary school and boarding school was that the canings were on the hands and I never got six strokes at one time. Also Mrs F had caned me in the first 2 years on my pyjamas and so it did not seem unusual to be caned by her as I progressed through the school. Mostly in the earlier years I got 2, 3 or 4 strokes. The canings were fairly frequent and Mrs F used her flexible friend on at least one occasion per week I would guess. I think the strangest thing at the school was that matron used to be a witness and check the boys after the caning. This applied even when the teacher was a male. She was truly a frightening lady and I tried to avoid going to her even when ill.
You are correct in your thought that the caning on the bare applied to all canings in the last 3 years not just six stroke punishments.
Regarding the comment about girls, there were no girls at this school but there were at the primary school. I remember well how they teased me when I got the cane there so would have been horrified if they knew about me getting 6 on the bare bottom. Mind you the boys teased them when they got caned as well so I think it was all fair in the end.



 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Further information

October 28 2013, 12:59 PM 

Hello Peter1951,

Thank you for the additional data. If only everyone responded as quickly to queries when they first start posting here!

You confirm that you were at a small private boarding school for boys. As I noted in my October 26 2013, 12:56 AM post above I don't think that caning on the bare was all that unusual at such schools in the 1950s and into the 1960s. What was perhaps a little unusual at your school was reserving this fate for older boys. I think it was probably more usual the other way around, or as a general practice for all ages. It would be interesting to understand why your school might have decided on their policy.

Did the staff give you any information about why this arose please? Or was there any speculation about the reason by pupils? On the face of it a more severe punishment experience for older pupils might seem a possibility, but you noted above that pyjamas offered scant protection anyway. The loss of the protection afforded by the fairly substantial trousers and underpants worn by schoolboys in the period in question might well make for a more painful experience. Not so the loss of pyjama trousers, where the only thing to increase might be embarrassment.

But in a boarding school situation even the embarrassment factor is limited. Boys will be more used to seeing each other naked and being seen naked by staff than would usually be the case in a day school. Very unusually indeed I would think, you were caned on the bare by a female teacher. In a normal teacher-pupil context that would be highly embarrassing for the boy even if not for the teacher. However as I expected you say that the relationship with that teacher was rather more than might normally subsist between a pupil and a teacher.

By virtue of the boarding school situation and the dormitory teacher relationship, and the fact that the latter continued throughout your time at the school, there was inevitably a pseudo-family element in the relationship with Mrs F. Similarly so with Matron, despite your dislike of her. Your sans protection caning by Mrs F probably was embarrassing, but nothing like as embarrassing as it would have been if carried out by a female teacher when you were still at your state primary school, and that despite the age difference between the two situations, which might otherwise be expected to heighten the embarrassment for an older boy.

As a matter of interest can you recall how Mrs F handled your first caning on the bare? You say that you'd been caned by her in the first two years when you could keep your pyjama trousers on. Did she comment on the requirement for a change of procedure or did you simply present yourself accordingly, knowing the rules?

You said that your six of the best from the headmaster was much harder and administered with a longer cane than your six strokes from Mrs F. Can you recall please anything about the respective periods the marks lasted, and whether in the case of the caning by Mrs F you noticed any significant difference from her previous canings in this respect? Marks would I guess be a possible reason for the on the bare from the third year decision. If it was decreed that from the third year onwards you'd be caned significantly harder it might have been decided that it would be safer if the caner could see the damage being done by the harder strokes. I don't recall seeing this mentioned in a school context, but a school could certainly have gone down that path.

You comment on the reactions of boys and girls at your primary school to pupils of the opposite sex being corporeally punished. From memory this varied over the years in primary school. In the early years when girls were generally regarded by boys as strange alien creatures (and doubtless vice versa) I think there was just interest in seeing what would happen and how they'd react. In later years when they'd been recognised as fellow human beings that interest was still strong, but usually overlaid with some sadness and concern if you liked them and it was a severe punishment.

 
 
Pete1951

Response to A_L

October 30 2013, 9:24 AM 

Hello Another_Lurker,

I am not sure why the school had the policy, we were just told that was how it worked, not why. The boys assumed that it was meant to be more painful and embarrassing because older boys should have known better. As you say the embarrassment was not as bad as some school because the lads were used to seeing each other naked. However it was extremely embarrassing being watched by matron and to some extent by Mrs F especially if one got an erection as a result.

Canings in the dorm were very ordered and we were told by Mrs F on day one of the first year that we were to wait for her instructions or we might get more She also told us about the change in the third year although we did not think much about it until it happened for the first time. The procedure was that our name was read out first. In the third year onward we were then ordered to remove our pyjamas including the top before being called to the chair. We were told to stand behind the chair and bend over with our palms on the seat. Mrs F would then adjust us until she was satisfied. This usually meant feet slightly apart and well arched. She would then tap the cane several times before starting.

I can not recall how long the marks lasted but do remember a very restless night and wriggling the next day when sitting.

Regarding the girls, in primary school it was very much accepted that the girls and boys teased each other after a caning and sometime giggled during it.





 
 
Jenny

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

October 30 2013, 12:37 PM 

Hi Another_Lurker and Oliver Sydney

Thanks for your answers. Please accept my apologies for not replying sooner. I've been extremely busy over the last few weeks and it's only now that I'm starting to get a bit of free time.

A_L:
I can't really imagine that I would have done that unless:

The girl had done something really unpleasant to me.

I could readily convince myself that most of my fellow pupils would agree that she should be severely punished for that action.

I was confident that I could engineer her caning without it being associated with me.

The caning would be conducted in class so that I'd get to see it.

And then I just might have done. However, the unlikely nature of requirement 4 means that however obnoxious the girls were, in practice as regards engineered canings they'd have been safe from me.

Is requirement 3 because you would have feared the reaction of other pupils? Girls in sexist schools didn't have to worry about teachers finding out because they wouldn't face any significant sanction. The worst that was likely to happen was that their plan would fail but they could just keep trying until they succeeded.

You say requirement was unlikely to be have been met. In the case of caning I'd tend to agree but slipperings were often administered in front of the class so, if you set your sights on getting a girl slippered, you probably would get to see it.


Oliver Sydney:
I am very sure I would not have done this. However some certainly would, possibly even if they were caned themselves. I have to say that it was my immediate thought when I read of Rebecca Redlands's 4th caning here.

I've no doubt some boys and girls would not have done it under any circumstances and I can quite believe you would have been one of them.

I don't think I would have done it either but, as I said, if I had attended a sexist school my views would very likely have been different from what they are. In that case, I can't be absolutely sure I wouldn't have done, especially to a boy whom I had some disagreement with.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Response to A_L

October 31 2013, 7:50 AM 

Hello Pete1951,

Thank you for the additional follow-up

You say above:

In the third year onward we were then ordered to remove our pyjamas including the top before being called to the chair. We were told to stand behind the chair and bend over with our palms on the seat. Mrs F would then adjust us until she was satisfied. This usually meant feet slightly apart and well arched. She would then tap the cane several times before starting.

The total removal of your pyjamas prior to taking up position for your punishment would seem to have been rather unnecessary. One would have thought that merely lowering the trousers to bare the target area after you were bent over would have probably have sufficed.

But then I suppose you certainly wouldn't forget the punishment quickly! And a bit of drama never does any harm if it drives home the intended message! The rest of the preliminaries were doubtless intended to ensure that the punitive effect was maximised and the chances of a miss-hit minimised.

You said earlier in the thread:

The school generally considered us lucky having Mrs F [as your Dormitory Teacher] because she was a fairer teacher than some of the male teachers and especially better than the headmaster.

All the boys in the school suffered the embarrassment of having Matron witness their canings. From the third year onwards that got rather more embarrassing, though in view of the medical duties of a Matron I wouldn't have thought this was too much of a problem. In your dormitory you had the additional embarrassment of being caned by Mrs F. However you had the recognised advantage of her superior fairness in matters pertaining to the general running of your dormitory.

Life is a complex series of compromises. You win some, you lose some. This was just such a situation! And after all very few males were caned naked by a female teacher, or at least not while they were still at at school! happy.gif In a Forum like this think of the huge advantage that gives you over somebody like me with my pathetic smacked leg story! sad.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

October 31 2013, 9:54 AM 

Hello Jenny,

I'm pleased that you are posting again. You have been sadly missed.

You asked:

Is requirement 3 [my saying that I would only undertake the stratagem if I was confident that it could not be associated with me] because you would have feared the reaction of other pupils? Girls in sexist schools didn't have to worry about teachers finding out because they wouldn't face any significant sanction.

Fear of both pupils and teachers! Unlike boys, who of course always forgive and forget happy.gif the punished girl (and her friends) might have borne a grudge and had their revenge at a later stage. As for the teachers - well I'm sure you recall that the juvenile Another_Lurker was CP averse!

You also said:

You say requirement 4 was unlikely to be have been met. In the case of caning I'd tend to agree but slipperings were often administered in front of the class so, if you set your sights on getting a girl slippered, you probably would get to see it.

I don't know why I responded as though your query only referred to engineering a caning. Re-reading your October 2 2013, 11:01 PM contribution above it is clear that was not the case. At Junior School, the only time I was in a mixed educational environment where significant (by most people's standards) CP was used it would have been possible to try to engineer a slippering for a girl. Such a slippering would indeed have been witnessed by the rest of the class But most of the teachers there were pretty sharp and it is unlikely one would have got away with it. Even had the first of my caveats arisen (that the girl had done something really unpleasant to me) I wouldn't have chanced it.

 
 
Jenny

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

November 5 2013, 5:05 PM 

Hi Another_Lurker

Fear of both pupils and teachers! Unlike boys, who of course always forgive and forget happy.gif the punished girl (and her friends) might have borne a grudge and had their revenge at a later stage. As for the teachers - well I'm sure you recall that the juvenile Another_Lurker was CP averse!

That wouldn't really be relevant in a school where the more common sexist regime were reversed. If only girls could be corporeally punished and the worst a boy could ever receive was a severe "telling off", what would it matter if the teachers found out? As for the girl you set up and here friends attempting to exact revenge, all you'd need do is turn on the waterworks1 and tell a teacher. The girl and her friends would be caned (or slippered) again - probably more severely that time. You wouldn't even have had to set them up that second time.

But most of the teachers there were pretty sharp and it is unlikely one would have got away with it. Even had the first of my caveats arisen (that the girl had done something really unpleasant to me) I wouldn't have chanced it.

In the type of school in question, you would definitely have got away with it because, as a boy, you would be presumed incapable of wrongdoing and, in any case, would be exempt from any real punishment. You might not have succeeded in your aims but that wouldn't matter, you could just try again another time and keep trying until, purely by random chance, you succeeded.


1. I'm presuming the sexism would be complete so boys would have been taught to cry at will.





 
 

Another_Lurker

Those reversed sexist schools!

November 7 2013, 4:53 AM 

Hello Jenny,

In view of the many strange and unsettling things which might happen in a school where the more common sexist regime was reversed I am happy that at the only mixed school I attended, my Infant and Junior School, sexism didn't really rear its ugly head. Well at least it didn't except that in the top class, which was out-stationed in one of the town's public buildings, when changing for PT the girls got a comfortable changing room and we boys had to change in a sort of large cupboard under the (admittedly fairly palatial) stairs. sad.gif Oh, and I suppose in the Junior School more boys than girls got the slipper and more girls than boys got the ruler on the hand and smacks on the leg. The latter was pretty evenly distributed in the Infant School though! sad.gif

 
 
jd 19

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 22 2014, 11:07 AM 

WARNING THIS IS A VERY LONG POST!

I have mentioned on various threads I was caned for violent bullying, recently I was asked for details, however I don`t think my idea of the details is the same as other members. I did say I would try and put an account of it all on one post so I have here.

A couple of things I would like to say first.

I can remember some of the things said like it happened yesterday and not over thirty five years ago, others are blurry and I can not remember exactly how something was said just that is was, for instance I know I was told I had to accept I had been a bully but I can not remember the exact words used.


Although they got it wrong with me and my experiences do reflect that in some of my views on various posts, I want to make it clear I do not think every school in the latter half of the 70`s were whacking their pupils without much thought! For the record my only major problem with SCP and where my interest lies, is the use of it for academic purposes, which leads me on to say despite their best efforts with that dam ruler my choice of words and grammar is still shocking so I warn you if that gets on your goat then really don`t read this!


This it is an account of how I came to get the cane, how it effected me and some of my thoughts of how this may have happened, it does not contain a lot of detail of how I was actually caned because I think that is unimportant. I am aware not everyone feels the same and this is a long post so if you don`t want to waste your time reading a lengthy piece on how someone was tormented, lost their temper and got caned for bullying, without the actual details of the caning, then this will not be the post for you.

----------


Amy and I were friends, she had started at my secondary school a few weeks into the first year. She was placed into my form and as she lived a short distance from my home she asked if she could walk to and from school with me. Ironically she wanted someone to walk home with because she was scared of some of the girls from my area, who could be nasty pieces of work it has to be said! So we did the daily commute and started to spend time together in the evenings and weekends. We got on well I would certainly class her as one of my close friends.

Into the second year and she was moved to the correct form for her name, we saw less of each other during the school day but continued to spend time together out of school. Until one day out of the blue Amy decided she no longer wanted to know me.

There was no row, no falling out, I simply called for her as usual one morning to find she had already left, at school she refused to acknowledge me at all. I tried to talk to her and asked friends to find out what I had done to upset her. No one could find out what the problem was so I left it at that. I was hurt and confused but life moves on very quickly at school, young girls are in and out of friendships all the time that is just the way it goes, so although yes I did miss Amy`s company I was happy to move on. For some reason while Amy had made it plain she wanted nothing to do with me she could not seem to leave me alone and she started her taunting campaign.

It began with the most ridiculous things, I suddenly found myself being asked if it was true we ate off margarine lids at home, did we use newspaper instead of toilet paper and did I have to sleep on the floor because we couldn't afford beds! We were poor, but we did have plates, toilet paper and I did have a bed!! I found out Amy was spreading these bizarre rumours but they were so stupid I took no notice.

She started deliberately hanging around making snide comments about living in a council house, wearing second hand clothes, not affording holidays, the TV being rented our furniture was all from second hand shops, everything about my home life was a source of malicious amusement for her. She was not stupid she knew to be careful who got to hear, if some of the girls off my estate heard her opinion of those living in council houses she would need to be finding a new school sharpish!

She used things she knew about our house so others may not know what she was on about. My sister worked in the typing pool at the local factory it was a family joke she didn't chip her painted fingernails in her cushy office job, it was just banter between family but Amy would laugh how some people thought working as a factory typist was a good career. Same with some cushions mum had bought that we were not allowed to sit against, dad teased her about her `posh` cushions we could only look at not use, Amy would go on about how her Mother would only use cheap market cushions in the dog basket.

I had in my naivety given her plenty of ammunition, she knew I found having a bath a luxury, it had not been so long ago I had lived without an inside toilet or even a hot water tap so a plumbed in bath with hot running water was still a novelty to me. Amy lived in a large four bedroom house, no wonder she found my thinking our council house was wonderful because it had bath and hot water so laughable.

I tried to keep out of her way as much as possible, she would wait for me on the way home so she could walk behind shrieking with laughter how my annual holiday was a day trip on a bus and singing Second Hand Rose, she was always singing that dam song! I would take the long route home to try to avoid her.


It did get me down but I really believed the best policy was to ignore her, that was how I had been brought up to believe in the sticks and stones rhyme and to sort things out myself. It was just teasing, nasty spiteful teasing but just teasing. It made me miserable and upset me, occasionally she would pretend to trip and knock into me but I was not scared of her. When she really upset me saying our house was filthy and she had caught something staying there, I told my form teacher, his response was to ask me if our house was dirty and as it wasn't it did not matter what anyone said. Logic in that I agree but he really was not interested in how much it had upset me.


It went on for months, not everyday, sometimes it would go quiet for weeks, then when just as I thought she had got bored she would start again. It had been quiet for a little while on the day I came across her and her friend in the cloakroom. My form was in a block some distance from the main building when we got to the cloakroom after late registration most pupils were already on their way home. This day I had gone to the PE department before going to get my belongings from the cloakroom so it was all but deserted by the time I got there.


I don`t know if she had waited for me but planned or not she was not going to let this opportunity to torment go. She began whispering loudly to her friend, I should have done what I did every time and walked away but she was calling my mother names, really nasty names and implying she paid our rent with sexual favours. One minute I was putting books in my bag the next I was smashing my fist in to her filthy mouth, I grabbed the front of her dress and shoved her up the wall and shook her, her head was banging repeatedly against the wall. Some one was screaming could have been Amy, her friend or even me. I let her go collected my stuff and went home.

I knew I was in trouble I had hit Amy hard and there was going to consequences. I half expected the police to come for me, I was certain Amy`s parents were going to come to my house to see my parents, I didn't tell anyone at home I was to upset to repeat what had been said about mum and I thought my parents might be furious with me. I do not want to make my parents sound like they were harsh because they were certainly not but I was told if I ever brought trouble to the door I could expect to feel the belt. This seemed like bringing trouble to the door! I spend the evening in my bedroom worrying about what might happen.

Next morning the message came I was to report to the head of girls office, she along with the deputy head who was currently acting head were waiting for me. They asked me if I knew why I had been called I said straight away I had thumped Amy there was no point in pretending I did not know. They showed me a dress it was Amy's the front was ripped, it had blood on it. They had seen Amy`s injures she and her mother had been at the school to complain about me. I tried to explain why I had done it but the acting head told me they knew why, it was because I was a nasty viscous bully.

This threw me completely I had expected Amy not to have admitted why I had punched her and to be told there was no excuse anyway, but I had not expected to be told I was a bully. I tried to tell them I was not the bully, Amy was, he shoved the dress at me asking if it looked like the clothes of a bully or someone who was the victim. I kept trying to say why I had punched her it but he said it was typical of a bully to blame the victim for their actions.


I had to listen to how I had been bullying Amy for months, after falling out I had refused her attempts to rekindle our friendship, instead I had turned friends against her, taunted, pushed her around and laughed at her relentlessly. I had hid her belongings she needed for lessons getting her into trouble, I took money from her, I threatened her with violence if she told anyone. Amy`s school work had suffered through the misery she endured everyday at my hands she couldn't concentrate with fear of what I might do next. In short I had been making Amy`s life hell. They had a witness, Amy`s friend who had watched in horror as I launched myself at Amy unprovoked, my violence purely malicious. The same witness knew all about the bullying poor Amy had been subjected to. I tried to make them understand I had hit her yes but the rest was untrue but I was so horrified and shocked at being accused of bullying I had started to cry. I was told like all bullies I was a coward.

Amy`s mother was understandably furious at what had been happening to her daughter, she wanted me gone from the school. The acting head agreed, he did not want me at the school he was sick of my type, off THAT estate we were all the same from there, none of us were any good, all trouble makers with no future, he did not see why he had to waste his time with my sort and he certainly was not going to lose decent people like Amy and keep the scum like me. Of all the words spoken that day in fact through my entire school days I can remember that word scum like it has just been spoken to me. I had only just reached my teens it was not very nice hearing the person in charge of my school call me scum!

They must have taken my increased distress as fear of being expelled as I was told to calm down I was not going to be expelled they were going to give me another chance. Due to my age and this being my first disciplinary offence they believed I could be taught a lesson, one painful enough to ensure I would never again put Amy or anyone else through such torment, I was going to be caned. I kept saying I was sorry I am not sure what I was sorry for maybe hitting Amy, maybe for living on a rough estate and being scum.

The acting head told me I would be only given this one chance if I should re offend I was out, he made it clear he would have preferred me gone and I was very lucky to be staying at the school. He left the office and the head of girls asked me if I understood I was going to be caned and not expelled. She reminded me it was to teach me a lesson that the school would not tolerate bullying. I was pleading I was not a bully but as far as she was concerned she had a cowardly bully in front of her who`s tearful pleading was simply due to not wishing to take the punishment coming to her and she had probably heard tearful pleading before. I had no choice but to try and take as best I could the six strokes she placed across my backside. I have no idea if they were her `best` or not, all I know is it was extremely painful. She had said I needed a painful lesson, that is what I got!

She told me it was not pleasant to have to give a caning such as the one I had received but it had been necessary. I needed to accept I had been a silly girl and make a fresh start. She was a lady with a lot of authority over me, she had just caned me because she said I was a bully that needed teaching a lesson, I was in pain, upset and shocked, I told her what she wanted to hear, that I knew I had been a silly girl and I would never bully again. Content that I had been taught a lesson she told me to go next door to the sick room to take some time to calm down. I don`t know how long I was in there for but I do vividly remember feeling cold, really cold it was a warm day but I can remember being cold. Nobody came to check on me or throw me out.


I was utterly shocked and ashamed to have been caned for bullying. I was quiet, rather shy and while I was no angel I was generally well behaved, I had never been in serious trouble either at school or home, to get the cane at all was a shock but to get caned for bullying I could not begin to understand how that had happened to me. I hated bullies I had distanced myself from some primary school friends because I disliked how they picked on others for fun, I hated to see anyone being tormented simply because they didn`t quite fit in. I had asked them to leave Amy alone when she first came to the school.

I had seen at primary school how a teacher could be quick to give a smack to a child for misbehaviour they had been incorrectly informed about by another child but the cane was serious and six of the best very serious, reserved for the worse offenders. I truly believed nobody got it unless it was deserved and while I may have deserved it for punching Amy they had made it clear it was for bullying. I thought they must be right, I was a bully they would not have given me the cane if they were not certain I was guilty, but I knew I had not bullied Amy, I had punched her yes, but bullied her no I had not.

To know they thought I was guilty of bullying and very serious bullying at that, was hard for me to take in and come to terms with. Had I been a little more mature and less naive I may have felt outrage and anger that they could get it so wrong but at that stage I just felt shame and confusion.


It was not just that they believed I was a bully , they thought I was no good, a trouble maker, worthless scum based it seemed on where I lived. There were some rough families on that estate we kept away from them, everyone kept away from them even the police didn't`t go and see then without reinforcements! But that was them, we and many of our neighbours were not like them at all. My parents had low paid jobs, we didn't have two spare pennies to rub together, but they worked hard, I was brought up to be polite, well mannered, do my best at school, and try to keep out of mischief. I thought people were judged on their behaviour and as individuals I had no idea they were also judged on where they lived.

I had never felt ashamed of my home life, I though Amy had tormented me simply because she was spiteful but now the school had called me no good because I came off that estate, suddenly I felt ashamed of being poor and heaven help me I was ashamed of my family. It all seem tainted the jokes about my sisters painted nails, the posh cushions, instead of enjoying the family banter I snapped it was just working in a factory, the cushions were only cheap things. I told my poor bewildered mother I didn't want to go on the bus day trips we had recently signed up for I wanted to go on a proper holiday like other people, It`s a wonder I didn't get a thick ear! I resented wearing the second hand clothes from my sister that I had been so keen to get my hands on. I felt ashamed that my dad and brother worked on building sites and came home dusty I wanted them to wear suits and work in an office like Amy`s dad, I was ashamed that mum went out cleaning in the factory and took extra cleaning jobs so I her horse mad daughter could have riding lessons. Most of all I wished I did not live on THAT estate and I resented my parents for making us move there.

This really was a miserable time for me I think I went through every emotion from bewilderment to shame, from thinking I was a bully, to knowing I wasn't, the realisation living a decent hard working life was not enough to be thought of as good because being poor made you bad. Anger towards Amy, myself and my parents. I have to say this is not one of my favourite times to recall.

Serious cases of bullying invoked serious punishment, a girl from the year above, the leader of a gang of bullies was expelled, one of the girls in her gang was from my year, she got the same punishment as myself. Given that they took bullying seriously (at least when forced to) it would be expected they would also investigate claims of bullying just as seriously but I am sure they did not do a proper investigation into Amy`s claims, they would not have had the time for one thing.

They could not have asked my form teacher about me for he would surely have remembered I had been upset about Amy saying my house was dirty he couldn't have possibly forgotten that, it was only few weeks before. They of course had evidence of my violence and I had admitted to it anyway, they had a witness in Amy`s friend but I would have had witnesses who knew about Amy`s tormenting, I had asked them to ignore Amy like I was doing, had they bothered to ask my friends they would have found that out.

I did myself no favours in that office I know, I allowed shock and fear to take over and all I could stupidly do was cry and say sorry but I genuinely do not think they wanted to hear my side of the story and they obviously were not interested in asking anybody about me. They must have simply decided I was indeed the violent bully Amy said I was before I had even set foot inside the office,

What lead them to believe Amy so quickly I do not know, I had not been in any trouble before, even at primary school the bits of trouble I had been in were due to silliness I can`t imagine anything in my records or my character could make them so certain of my guilt.
While of course I have no idea what it was that made them so certain Amy was telling them the truth I do have a few possible theories which I will share.

I was from the rough estate and although I most certainly was not, it is true that virtually all the trouble makers came from there. The school was (and still is) in a smallish rural town attended by half local children and half from the surrounding village's. I have to say the behaviour from some of the kids from my estate did stand out, most serious offences, including bullying, were committed by some one from my estate or at least they were involved if not the ring leaders. The Acting Head did not like us, he probably had in his time at that school been given a lot of grief by the kids off that estate. One of his favourite insults was to tell pupils their appearance or behaviour made them seem like they must come from THAT estate.

My siblings had been on the wrong end of the cane a few times. I don`t think they got into any serious trouble but probably enough to be remembered by those handing out CP. I would not be the first child judged on their siblings behaviour.

It would have looked like Amy was the quite shy one she was newish to the area and only had few friends. I on the other hand had grown up with lots of my classmates I had a circle of friends which did include some of the more naughtier ones from my old school. Apart from physical differences, I was smaller than Amy, I can see why I fitted the profile of bully and Amy the victim.


It may be that Amy was just very convincing, so very convincing it seemed impossible she could be telling anything than less than the truth. I doubt very much Amy ever intended for me to punch her but I had, so she had to come up with some reason why, she was hardly going to repeat what she had said to cause me to lose my temper. Once she blurted out I had been bullying her there could have been no turning back. I do wonder if Amy had to beg her mother not to come to my house because I am surprised she didn't, but couldn't stop her going to the school. Amy I am sure must have been scared and knew she had to make it sound good and maybe while she was at it she could explain a few little difficulties away.

Amy`s parents were keen for her to be in the top sets, once during a dinner party at her house, her parents had proudly told their guests how well Amy was doing at school and when placed into sets next year she would be in the top ones. Well this was news to me I have to say, Amy was not exactly what I would have called a high achiever. I told her they would realise the truth at reporting time, Amy never gave her first year report to her parents she simply told them the school did not bother with reports or parents evening until the second year! How on the earth she got away with that I have no idea but she did, however getting away with it again might have been tricky.

The annual report was due shortly if Amy had a feeling her parents may be less than pleased she was not quite doing as well as they had expected, claiming she was unable to concentrate due to the level of bullying I was putting her through was a rather clever bit of quick thinking, as was explaining getting into trouble for forgetting the correct equipment or kit for lessons. I have been told Amy`s mother was verging on hysteria in the office, the witness had to give her evidence in front of Amy and her mother, the mother was crying uncontrollably and quite terrifying. If true she may have just heard her daughter`s schoolwork had been badly affected by me, no wonder she was so determined I should be removed from the school.

Amy`s mother knew me well, I had been close friends with Amy I was often at their house. She had always seemed to like me but I had injured her daughter and apparently ruining her education, as a mother I can understand her anger against me. I doubt up until that morning either the acting head or head of girls could have even put a face to my name, I don`t think I had ever spoken to either of them before, but here was an adult who did know me and seemed in all her fury to be convinced I was capable of all I was accused of.

There was also the question of politics going on at the school at that time. The Headmaster was a bit of a shadowy figure with a rather complicated personal life he was often absent. It is generally thought the deputies and head of girls were all `in waiting` for the time they could fill the application form for vacant head. I know Amy`s mother was the sort who would wish to deal with the organ grinder and not his monkeys she would have made that know, the acting head and head of girls may have been keen to prove how efficiently they could deal with a serious problem.

As I have said I have no idea what made them believe Amy I am merely sharing some of my thoughts, there may have been no particular reason other than these things sometimes happened. I was not the last person at this school to be caned for something they did not do and a later experience tells me they may not have been overly bothered about the why`s just whack them for the offence anyway. It may not have particularly mattered if I was guilty or not they had a `victim` they had an `offender`, deal with the offender, job done. Of course it was a great sucess I didn`t bully anyone ever again, funnily enough!

I did learn a few lessons though, I learnt about bigotry and I needed to find out about that sooner or later. I learnt how to keep outwardly respectful when all respect once held has gone. My mother was wrong, teachers do not always know best and must know what they are doing. It is entirely possible to get caned for something you have not done. Ignoring bullies does not make them go away although smacking them in the mouth is probably not the right way to deal with them. I can`t say I regret doing it though because I don`t, for what she said she deserved and if I had known she was going to accuse me of bullying I might have made a better job of it!

As a footnote, that annual report , the one I have my suspicions Amy may have been worried about, came out just a few weeks later, my character statement written by my form teacher tells what a polite member of the form I have been, well liked and supportive of my fellow form members . This is countersigned by the head of girls after she has added how well I have done in the year and what a pleasure I am to have at the school. Written and signed I presume by the same hand she had held the cane in as she whacked me for being a vicious little bully only staying at the school by the skin of my teeth!















 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 22 2014, 1:35 PM 

Hi JD19

Thank you so very much for telling us the longer version of your story. I think you have narrated it brilliantly and I found it fascinating. I share your obvious puzzlement at why Amy behaved as she did. It is very disappointing that the Acting Head and Head of Girls made no real effort to establish the truth when the accusations against you were so serious. Their decisions were clearly wrong, but the standard at the time did tend to be summary judgement and execution based on the "balance of probabilities" (a quote from esteemed contributor Dr Dominum). Twice (once at 8 and once at 12) I was accused of doing serious wrong by adults who did not know me (not teachers). Both times I was totally innocent and there was no basis for the accusation. But I will never forget the total helplessness I felt. I was well aware that children were not believed when accused by adults, even when they told the truth.

Whether such an event would have been better handled in my school in the 1960s is hard to judge. Similarly the hierarchy would have had little or no idea what was going on. We had 1100-1200 boys and most classes had 40 pupils. A small (or not so small) group of troublemakers were well known and so branded, but otherwise I am sure that decisions would have been based almost totally on the events at the time. We were clearly told that anyone involved in a fight would receive 6. Fights were still common, but it did act as an extra deterrent to retaliating against aggression. Even now, Sydney's class system is based on where you live so the minority who lived in shacks at the time would have been judged on that. To be fair some were rough kids.

Bullying was so much simpler at a boys' school. Having your arm twisted, being tripped or punched is absolutely trivial compared to what you experienced. I even partly excused the boy who bullied me on the grounds that he was the most caned in my class. I did my best to avoid him and after a while it stopped. Boys of the era were expected to sort out their own problems so even if it had continued I would never have told an adult. I had sick and dizzy spells at the time and visited the sick bay three times. The third time the Headmaster spoke to me, and although he was fine I had the strong feeling it would be better not to visit again. To the best of my memory that was the only time I spoke to either the Head or Deputy in 6 years at the school.

 
 
hcj

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 22 2014, 2:53 PM 

Thank you jd19 for sharing your experiences with us in your post. It is a most valuable contribution to the Forum.

You have given us much to think about and I hope you have not found it too painful to relate your story.

It paints a very bleak picture of life in a school thirty-five years ago. I would like to think that the situation today is better, but I'm not sure it is.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 23 2014, 1:01 AM 

Hello jd 19,

I am very glad that I failed to implement my offer to provide links to some of your previous contributions regarding your caning and the events which led up to it. Had I done so we might not have had one of the best and most thought provoking contributions to this Forum that I can recall.

I cannot think that it was easy for you to post such a comprehensive and intensely personal account, but thank you very much indeed for making the effort to do so. I can only say that that is not how school should have been for any child. Faced with such a dreadful misuse of corporal punishment, or indeed any sort of punishment, one can only conclude that the staff responsible were unfit and unsuitable to be in post. The sole redeeming feature seems to be that on the subsequent annual report the Head of Girls described the actual situation regarding your performance at the school and made no mention of the alleged bullying.

But was that a redeeming feature? Did it mean that she now realised that a dreadful mistake had been made but didn't consider that any acknowlegement or apology was required? Or did it mean that reducing a young girl to a state of terror and tears with the threat of expulsion and then caning her severely was so routine and so trivial to her that a few weeks later she didn't even recall the incident?

Neither situation reflects any credit on her. In my opinion as Head of Girls she should have acted as a counter to the Deputy Headmaster and his obvious prejudices and ensured that your side of the case was at least listened to and investigated. Not only did she not do that, she connived in threatening you with expulsion and then carried out the caning!

 
 
HH

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 23 2014, 1:33 AM 

Hi jd 19

Thank you for this truly exceptional recount. It was most saddening to read, because I have experienced similar but not to the extent you did. One can only maintain sanity by realising that life is not fair, but our individual experiences, even the unjust ones, do serve to make us stronger and better human beings. I look at my experiences that way, and suspect you do as well!

In other threads here I described the horrific bullying (and it was physical or he threat of physical harm). I was surprised when no responses were ever made by anyone. Perhaps it's simply because there can be no response.

We didn't cane in our schools, we strapped. Younger children were smacked on the bottom with the open hand. I was too (about grade 2ish a couple of times), but those I experienced could hardly be called a "spanking" - if you want to know what a spanking really was, just ask my mom 45 years back! wink.gif

Anyway, I retaliated against one boy who bullied me in the school bus line waiting to go home from middle school one day. I became enraged and lashed out at him. I had a thermos in my hand and attempted to "brain" him with it.

Again in a twist of reality, HE complained and I found myself in front of the principal next morning... he pulled out the thick industrial-belting strap from his top drawer (anyone who read the "Canadian Regulation School Strap" book will know this recount from the Preface). Long story short, I wasn't strapped but left go with a warning. Had I been, I would likely resent it to this day as the worst injustice ever inflicted on me. Yet ironically, considering my interest in the overall subject, I actually regret never have been strapped at school - it's a life experience missed from which I have no point of reference to reflect back on.

Injustice happens, I guess it's how we each deal with it that forms the essence of the people we really are. Incidentally, as a gnostic, I truly believe that Amy has created bad karma and one way or the other, in this life or another, she will necessarily suffer what she has delivered in order for that karmic imbalance to be mended. It's a universal rule of karmic law (like what comes around goes around)... Some food for the peace of your soul! happy.gif

 
 
Alan Turing

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 24 2014, 10:44 AM 

A few thoughts about the post by jd19.

Somehow, I don't think it's really about corporal punishment at all. It is, rather, about a disgraceful abuse of power by people who were in positions of authority. Sanctions need to be imposed with justice, and the more severe the sanction, the greater the necessity for care in ensuring justice. I suspect (and I'd expect to be corrected if I'm mistaken about this) that jd19 would have felt the same justified resentment if she'd been given the same verbal abuse about bullying, but had been expelled rather than caned. Or, indeed, if she hadn't been given a "punishment" at all, but had been verbally humiliated in the way she describes. That, in my opinion, is what was wrong.

In fact it seems to me that a caning was probably the correct punishment for the actual (rather than the alleged) offence. If a school used corporal punishment at all, then I'd expect it to be used for a violent assault, particularly for a first offence of that kind. From the wording jd19 uses,
For the record my only major problem with SCP and where my interest lies, is the use of it for academic purposes
she may well agree; again, I'll be corrected if I'm mistaken.

I do have a couple of questions for her, though. The first is about the fact that she thought it worthwhile to write her post: did she intend, when first posting on this Forum, to write about this incident eventually, or is this something which has developed as she's seen the nature of the discussion here? I know that, when I first started posting here many years ago, I had something on my mind, and -- having got it off my chest -- I don't feel such a need to mention it any more.

The second question is a pretty trivial one. Given that there was a "head of girls", I assume that this was a coeducational school?



 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 24 2014, 12:36 PM 

Alan Turing said:
Somehow, I don't think it's really about corporal punishment at all. ....

I agree that the way JD19 was treated was very poor. However, in this case the summary nature of CP is absolutely fundamental to the injustice. Had another severe punishment been given (such as expelling her) her parents would most likely have come into the equation. Whilst I have no doubt that would have horrified JD19 as much as it would have me, hopefully if it had happened she would have told her parents the full story. Then it would have been up to them what action to take. Most parents are aware of the good and bad in their own children, and what they may possibly do. IMHO most tend to be over-critical, particularly of teenagers, rather than the opposite.

A general question to everyone. Given the excellent and full description that JD19 gave, do you believe that such an incident have been better handled at your school? If so, what would they have done ?

 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 24 2014, 2:11 PM 

Hi HH

Again in a twist of reality, HE complained and I found myself in front of the principal next morning... he pulled out the thick industrial-belting strap from his top drawer (anyone who read the "Canadian Regulation School Strap" book will know this recount from the Preface).

Thank you for letting us know the background to your "strap" incident. In the preface to your book you did not link it to bullying. (Incidentally I now have "The Canadian Regulation School Strap". I congratulate you and recommend it to others. I was very impressed by the amount of work that must have been involved).

If I recall correctly you said in another thread that you were bullied over a period of time by a group of boys. Was this boy one of that group ? Do you know if they bullied others and do you think the school had any idea what was happening? In retrospect, what was it that stopped you reporting them ?

Both your and JD19's incidents (and those related by Rebecca and Brendan at Redlands) do raise interesting questions about the validity of recorded punishments for bullying. Whilst some cases are simple many are more complex.

 
 
HH

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 24 2014, 8:47 PM 

Hi Oliver Sydney

Say, thank you for having picked up a copy of CRSS and read it (and your kind comments as well)! Yes indeed that was the incident I was referring to. I think the principal had the sense to determine that my guilt was questionable after hearing my side of the story. I admitted to attempting to brain the boy with my thermos but only after he physically began pushing me around while I was standing in the bus line. I told him to "STOP" and when he continued, I became enraged and went at him, which as I can recall actually frightened him and he went away.

I was bullied by a couple of boys in middle school, but it became serious and unbearable in high school. None of these boys were related to each other or "hung out" together.

That boy, which lead to my near-strapping, had never bothered me before, and had never bothered me since. I think he simply decided to pick on me because I was an "easy target", people generally knew I wouldn't fight back ... which probably took him off-guard when I tried to brain him with my thermos.

There was one in particular who would body check me to the hallway floor from behind, and when my school work went sliding down the hall, he kicked my binders around until all the sheets came flying out and many school notes were lost or destroyed. He often took my possessions and destroyed them for fun.

I hated high school - it was the worst time of my life. I lived in constant fear of being assaulting by this moron. I was afraid to tell anyone as I had no confidence that I would be protected by the school and thought that it might make the retribution from the bully even worse. I stopped taking the bus and rode in with a neighbour who happened to work close to the school, and as soon as I got a driver's licence, bought a used car and drove. That kept me safe, but by then the tormentors had either dropped out or were thrown out of the school anyway. One of them became a junior hockey coach and I believe was recently charged for sexually assaulting boys in the change rooms back in the 1990's.

You raise an interesting point about recorded punishments for bullying. So - if I was indeed strapped for it, it would have been witnessed and recorded, as that was written policy. Since I was let go, there was nothing to record. Did I not reoffend because I got a warning? NO, because I was not the bully in the first place, I just decided to defend myself on this occasion.

This lends to my last book ... because I can only look at effectiveness by recidivism, and that can only be accomplished if two things happen: 1) the person is caught, and 2) they are punished and recorded. We cannot know if and how behaviours change if those conditions aren't there.

But! Not to worry as meaningful answers are still empirically obtained and I will explain why using the "seat belt saves lives" example: There are those who are ideologically opposed to wearing car seat belts, and in support of their position, they claim that people have been seriously injured or even killed by them. Yes that's true but it's one-sided: empirically we know your chances of injury or death are heightened by not wearing vs. wearing them.

Now consider this. All empirical data proving that seat belts save lives only comes from people who were actually in an accident. Did you wear one or not? and what was the result? We do not know and it is irrelevant to the conclusion whether you never wore a seat belt in your life until today when the accident occurred, or you always wore one but not today, when the accident occurred.

This corresponds to "people getting away with it" or behaviours being undetected, unpunished, etc... IMHO, we can only look at what happens IF a consequence occurred and recorded and what was the observation based on that incident.

 
 
HH

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 24 2014, 8:59 PM 

Part 2....

You asked if I knew that they bullied others? In all cases except one I'll tell you next, no, I was not aware if that occurred.

In the recount I gave about a school trip to a camp while in middle school ... (sorry, I can't locate the post). There was a smaller and meeker boy than myself, and I happened to walk past the scene where two boys had his pants down and were sexually assaulting him, or perhaps even raping him, I don't know and didn't know of such things at that age.

They confronted me and told me if I ever told anyone what I saw, they would beat me every single day. I was bullied at times by one of these two prior to this, but come to think of it, they left me alone from that point on. I never told anyone because I was too afraid, and am still ashamed of my cowardice because those boys should have been minimally strapped (they still did this in middle school) expelled and referred to the police for charges. If for no other reason, than to protect the boy they were sexually assaulting (and perhaps me too!).

I know one of the sexual assaulter's full name (and the victim's full name as well) and have considered that there is no statute of limitations on serious crimes like this in my country. But without being able to locate the victim, my attempt to bring justice after all these years would likely not amount to much an it's further complicated that the attackers were "young offenders" at the time, and not adults. So it's likely academic as they say...

 
 

Another_Lurker

For HH - that hard to find contribution!

July 25 2014, 1:46 AM 

Hello HH,

You said above:

In the recount I gave about a school trip to a camp while in middle school ... (sorry, I can't locate the post)

Fascinating stuff! I remember the post concerned well and I couldn't locate it either. At least, not until I searched for it by my own somewhat unorthodox means rather than trying to locate it via Google. It is possible that it might have been locatable via the Forum Search Engine, but as this throws up so many spurious hits if a search string is used I seldom if ever use it.

I was confident that in your contribution you had used the term 'statute of limitations', just as you have in your above post, and indeed you had. But Google this Forum for it using that term and you won't find it. Nor, as far as I can see, will you find some other posts in the thread using terms specific to them. You will however find the thread if you Google that by name with reference to this Forum. In essence, although Google knows about the thread, it doesn't want to give links to individual posts therein. Both google.com and google.co.uk seem to be affected. I'll come to possible reasons for this later.

Your contribution is to be found here, in the 'Why spanking gotta go. My reasons.' thread.

Why Google's reluctance to disclose the post, and indeed other posts in the thread? Well it could just be a software glitch. However when I search certain patterns in Google relative to the thread I receive the notice which indicates that applications for link removal may have been made under the recent Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) decision on the right to be forgotten.

This is the second time I have seen this when placing Google searches which should have found items in this Forum. The problem is likely to increase, both for this Forum, and, more significantly, for the wider web, and in my opinion is likely to gradually render Google (and presumably other search engines) useless. We shall then be back to the bad old days when the only way you found anything on the web was by following links from web pages themselves!

 
 
HH

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 25 2014, 3:19 AM 

Hi AL, and thanks very much for locating my post, as it gives much more insight into the bullying I experienced. You are a life saver here as always! wink.gif

Yes indeed, if I could turn back time, I would have done things differently, but it was another time, another place, another planet.

I should add that I have been using the techniques that you and American Way (I think) long ago shared to find certain posts via Google. There were other posts which I knew exactly what the sting of words were, yet I could no longer locate. I was under the impression that, due to more recent developments, perhaps management deleted some posts or even entire threads for that matter?

 
 
HH

Religious Abuse

July 25 2014, 3:44 AM 

Oh, you jogged my memory of something I wanted to say that may cast some light on WHY I did not fight back and allowed myself, be default, to become a target.

I grew up in a very Christian home, and took the "indoctrinations" very much to heart. One of them, which my dad being a pacifist often promoted, was non-violence. that we "turn the other cheek" as Jesus as taught us. I obviously got the wrong message here. In the real world, the philosophy is to NOT intentionally harm others; what I got wrong was that it is completely OK to defend oneself and further, it is sometimes necessary to WHACK someone really hard when all else fails (Although I don't think Jesus ever said that). I should have adopted the "you've been warned but if you continue, I am going to break you face" approach rather than the "ignore it and it will go away" approach. That NEVER works with a bully sad.gif and only intensified my abuse at the hands of this ilk.

No offence please to anyone reading, but I no longer adhere to Christian dogma, nor any other man-made religion. It is my personal opinion that these in sum total have heaped more misery, torment and injustice on humanity than anything else one can think of. Examples: Crusades, Papal-sanctioned exterminations (Cathars a good example), Inquisitions, Witch Hunts, the Holocaust, celibacy & child molestations, etc... (and that's just ONE religion!)

I have often opined that the definition of child abuse continues to expand and evolve. Should it be legal to indoctrinate anyone under 18 with any of these man-made contrivances? Or is it a form of psychological abuse? I truly believe it was in my case sad.gif but I do not blame my parents one iota because I know they actually believe this and were convinced they were doing right by their children. Any opinions on this diversion???

 
 

Another_Lurker

Google Searches and Missing posts

July 25 2014, 6:19 AM 

Hello HH,

Thank you for your above comment regarding my role here. I do my best, though sadly it is not always so well appreciated! happy.gif

You said:

I should add that I have been using the techniques that you and American Way (I think) long ago shared to find certain posts via Google.

For clarification and the avoidance of doubt1 the first mention of the technique for finding material in this Forum via Google was I think here by Jenny who also devised the extremely useful method of linking to individual posts (linked in her contribution).

I usually use the Google search method thus:

site:network54.com 198833 "second search term" "third search term" etc.

The inclusion of the Forum number as what Jenny terms search_term_1 should for the most part restrict any findings to this Forum.

You also said:

There were other posts which I knew exactly what the sting of words were, yet I could no longer locate. I was under the impression that, due to more recent developments, perhaps management deleted some posts or even entire threads for that matter?

The Forum Management may comment on that or they may not. That is for them to decide. For my part I am aware of the removal of occasional threads and individual contributions over the history of this Forum. In all but one case of which I am aware there was an excellent reason. I don't think the exception was at the instigation of the Management of this Forum and it certainly did not contain any of your posts as far as I recall.

Much seems to have been claimed externally about this Forum's contents. I believe what I can prove. As I've noted above there are possible reasons why Google may no longer find the posts you refer to. If you are certain that you can identify an exact string but you cannot find a post you are welcome to let me know the string concerned and any other relevant detail. I will then see if I can find the post by the method I used above. It is fairly laborious and hands on, so I would be happier with known wording.

1The expression 'For clarification and the avoidance of doubt' is © Sarajane 2002.

 
 
jd 19

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 25 2014, 9:27 AM 

Thank you all for you comments I very much appreciate them. It is was not easy to put something so personal into words so I am grateful to know that it appears I have managed to get my experience across OK.

There are a number of points I would like to make but as Alan Turing has asked a couple of questions I will respond to those first.


In fact it seems to me that a caning was probably the correct punishment for the actual (rather than the alleged) offence. If a school used corporal punishment at all, then I'd expect it to be used for a violent assault, particularly for a first offence of that kind. From the wording JD19 uses,


For the record my only major problem with SCP and where my interest lies, is the use of it for academic purposes
she may well agree; again, I'll be corrected if I'm mistaken.




I did punched Amy with some force, had I been told no matter what the provocation my level of violence was unacceptable so I was going to get a caning I would have accepted that it would have made sense in my world. I had done wrong and I had been brought up take responsibility for wrong doing and accept the consequences. I was told I was getting six strokes of the cane for bullying, I did not deserve that, I had bullied no one. It was no longer about something I had done it was no about something I hadn`t, that did not make sense in my world. I then had to deal with the shame and confusion of being caned for something I did not do and especially for an offence I felt so strongly about, for me to be caned for bullying is like a teetotaller getting charged with drunk driving!

I am not certain I would have been given six of the best for the violence alone. I know of two cases where the sort of violence I used resulted in one pupil getting two strokes, the other much to his surprise no punishment at all.


I suspect (and I'd expect to be corrected if I'm mistaken about this) that jd19 would have felt the same justified resentment if she'd been given the same verbal abuse about bullying, but had been expelled rather than caned. Or, indeed, if she hadn't been given a "punishment" at all, but had been verbally humiliated in the way she describes.


Certainly a lot of the damage was done by them believing I was a bully and the Acting Head calling me scum, I totally broke down in that office when he called me that and I am certain I would have gone through a lot of anguish even had I not been caned. However the head of girls putting the cane across me after I had been told I was a nasty violent bully and scum to boot really reinforced the message and the two are so entwined I can not say if the effects would have been the same if I had not been caned. I am afraid I can only say how I felt after the event as it happened I cannot say how I may have felt had it ended differently, well not with enough certainty to declare you correct or mistaken!




I do have a couple of questions for her, though. The first is about the fact that she thought it worthwhile to write her post: did she intend, when first posting on this Forum, to write about this incident eventually, or is this something which has developed as she's seen the nature of the discussion here? I know that, when I first started posting here many years ago, I had something on my mind, and -- having got it off my chest -- I don't feel such a need to mention it any more.



Well I certainly had no intention of writing about this incident for a lot of reasons. I did however write about it in the third person in response to a post about how schools don`t always get it right when dealing with bullying. As one would expect from someone who has experienced SCP when posting on a SCP forum my experience does get mentioned occasionally on various posts I make. I have been asked for details hence making the post so I suppose it has come about due to discussion on here. Not sure whether I considered it worthwhile or not, from the point of view of trying to explain why I was not happy just to list the modus operandi then I hope readers who are interested can understand my feelings on that.


Yes the school was co-ed.


 
 
jd 19

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 25 2014, 11:04 AM 

Oliver Sydney The point you make about my parents getting involved had I been expelled is something I was going to address in response to the comment A_L made in regarding my annual report

The sole redeeming feature seems to be that on the subsequent annual report the Head of Girls described the actual situation regarding your performance at the school and made no mention of the alleged bullying.

But was that a redeeming feature?


I was very relieved to find there was no mention of any trouble or punishment because I really did not want parents to know but I think she may have actually done me another disservice in not mentioning it!

Had I been expelled my parents would have had to know what had happened, likewise had she mention on my report I`d had a recent disciplinary problem my parents would have wanted to know what I had been up to!


I didn`t tell my parents what had happened, I knew they would not have punished me again, although I was not going to chance it, but I thought they would take the schools side. They had told me nobody ever got caned unless it was deserved, if I had told them I worried they would tell me I deserved it, it was bad enough the school thinking I was a bully without my parents telling me I must be to have got caned as one!

Of course that is what I thought as a young teenager, the reality would have been different my parents would not have dismissed my protests of innocence as quickly as the school and they would have listened to me in fact they would have insisted on knowing what I had to say for myself!


A couple of years later I was in trouble, serious trouble, my mother contacted my friends in order to try to get more information she didn`t just act on what she had been told or even because she had the evidence, she did really did try and make sure she had the facts before deciding what to do with me. I have no reason to believe, had I come home with an end of year report stating I had been in some sort of trouble, my parents would not have tried to find out the facts. But of course I didn`t think like that at the time all I wanted was for them never to find out.


I really can`t blame the Head of Girls for my not confiding in my family that was all down to me and my fears, but had she put what she must have considered to be the truth about me on my report she would probably have done me a favour. It would not have changed what had happened of course and I am not sure how my parents would have felt about taking on the school they, or at least my mother, were in awe of teachers, but they may have been off to have a word or two with Amy`s parents at the very least.

I cannot imagine she had simply forgotten she had given me a caning certainly not a six of the best anyway, I am sure they were not common place. I have a feeling when the reports were passed on for signing she simply flicked through saw there was no problems and made some sort of generic remark about doing well, keep up good work pleasant member of school etc on each one. . I bet she hardly even looked at the name on the front of the report!

I really disliked both the deputy and head of girls. I was glad neither of them got promoted when the Head finally resigned. I am a` these things happen` kind of person but I could not forgive them for the way they dealt with me. He passed away some time ago and is the only of the member of staff from either of my two schools (and I didn`t have a whole lot of love for a couple at primary school) that I do not have a single fond memory of! I can at least say about her although I disliked her she was apparently very supportive to a friend of mine when she ended up pregnant at 13!!

 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 26 2014, 3:20 PM 

Hi HH

Thank you very much for answering my questions. I had forgotten but I had previously read the link so efficiently found by A_L. Your story is horrifying and it is just one of a number of similar ones that led to my perhaps "over the top" comment here . It is unimaginable to me that someone could go to school each day in fear. As an uncle I am paranoic about bullying. Whenever I sense unhappiness at school I try every way to find out the cause - occasionally children will tell me something they would not tell their parents.

I remember the fat boy at our school who was bullied by the PE teacher and some of the pupils. I knew very well this was wrong and tried to show some friendship to him. However I suspect he guessed I was driven by sympathy and he was hostile. I feel guilty that I did not persist. To report such bullying would have been inconceivable at that time, and it is probably not much better now despite the greatly increased awareness.

I have a lot of sympathy with your views on religion. However I would say there are some wonderful people who do excellent things in the name of religion. There are also people who do very evil things in the name of almost every religion. There are also those who are obsessed with controlling the lives of everybody else. In NSW we have compulsory religious instruction in state schools. Parents may exempt their children, but if so the legislation states that they are not allowed to be taught anything so must sit in a classroom and read.

 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 26 2014, 5:14 PM 

Hi JD19

Thank you very much for your further answers and comments. The personal abuse directed at you by the Deputy was absolutely sickening. Possibly terms like 'scum' reflected what was said in staffrooms and maybe elsewhere, but they are totally unacceptable when directed at children in any time or place.

The "housing settlements", such as the one where I lived in the early 1960s, were described as follows in the NSW Parliament: "These specially built slums .... are breeding grounds of disease, unhappiness, social misfits and communism, in which human beings degenerate and become frustrated and bereft of all hope, initiative and ambition." The government had to set up a separate primary school for our settlement as unsurprisingly the local residents did not want their children to be contaminated by us. I was lucky as we had some very dedicated and capable teachers. Although there were some rough kids, and I did get into the occasional fight, I remember it very positively.

I understand how you felt about telling your parents. What I find most difficult to fathom is the behaviour of Amy. I think your rationalisation is probably correct in that she made up a story and then felt she had to keep embellishing it. The bullying about where you lived is totally inexplicable to me. Is it possible that classmates from well-to-do parts had attacked her for her friendship with you and she was trying to prove something to them ?

 
 
hcj

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 26 2014, 11:46 PM 

Oliver Sydney wrote:

The bullying about where you lived is totally inexplicable to me. Is it possible that classmates from well-to-do parts had attacked her for her friendship with you and she was trying to prove something to them ?

I doubt it was anything to do with classmates. I don't think you need look any further than Amy's mother. A social climber, she wanted Amy to be more than just a daughter; instead, a "best friend" that she could show off in her social circle. She didn't want Amy to come under any influences that might spoil her plan. The seeds of criticism would have been sown at every opportunity - at mealtimes, when buying new clothes and on family outings. If you do this with an impressionable teenager, it soon takes root.

I believe there is great danger when parents think they "own" their children, as they do with a car or dog. Parents are not there to mould children into their own ideal image, dictate what party they will vote for or arrange whom they should marry. They are merely charged by society to ensure the children are safely housed and nourished until they can fend for themselves. They are required to ensure they attend school and intervene if they step out of line. In return, the children should honour and respect their parents but retain the right to become independent.

 
 
HH

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 27 2014, 3:51 AM 

Hi Oliver Sydney

I take to heart today your comment "It is unimaginable to me that someone could go to school each day in fear" and this explains in part, rightly or wrongly, why I am a "helicopter dad". ...so much so, that I need to be on my son's school parent council and wiggle my way into any other positions and advisory panels a non-employee can hold on a school board. It's simply that I need to know WHAT goes on, the rules of engagement, and I also need all the powers to be fully aware that I am a force to be reckoned with if my son (or anyone else for that matter) experiences these things.

Some may say "well wait a minute HH, what if your boy is the bully?". I have no worries there, it's been thoroughly discussed with my son and he's completely aware and agreed if he instigates a violent act at school, and especially if it draws a suspension, he should fully expect a particular negative and unpleasant consequence. It is accepted and expected - forewarned is foretold. Think what you like, but I have found that deterrence value tremendously effective, at least in my individual case.

On another point you made "Parents are not there to mould children into their own ideal image, dictate what party they will vote for or arrange whom they should marry. They are merely charged by society to ensure the children are safely housed and nourished until they can fend for themselves. They are required to ensure they attend school and intervene if they step out of line. In return, the children should honour and respect their parents but retain the right to become independent." To my mind, I don't think I've ever heard this written better or more succinctly than you did. I fully agree here.

EXCEPT! herein lays the rub... parent's are also charged with producing functional, productive and well-balanced future contributors to society that conform to socially-acceptable norms. That's the basis of all the arguments and contentions that exist including the very existence of this forum! ...because what works well for one is anywhere from useless to harmful for another. Indoctrinations benefit many, yet harms others, differing parenting styles and punishment deployment options for that matter, work well for many and not for others. Now we see the tangled web for what it is! happy.gif




 
 
HH

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

July 27 2014, 4:30 AM 

Apologies to hcj ...you'll notice that's been a trend here wink.gif

The second comment about "parent owning their children, etc." are actually yours and I inadvertently omitted to credit that in my reply above. Again, I believe that is right on the mark, along with my expansions on that theme.

 
 
Editor

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 3 2014, 10:34 AM 

Several questions for jd 19 concerning her post of July 22 have been sent in. The majority are not suitable for publication on this Forum, but here are three to which jd 19 may feel able to respond.

A reader in the Ireland asks:

"Was it usual for girls to be caned on the bottom and not the hand at your school? Did the teacher tell you that it was going to be on the bottom?"

A reader in the United States asks:

"Was your punishment witnessed by another member of staff?"

 
 
jd 19

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 7 2014, 3:03 PM 

Hallo Oliver Sydney

The "housing settlements", such as the one where I lived in the early 1960s, were described as follows in the NSW Parliament: "These specially built slums .... are breeding grounds of disease, unhappiness, social misfits and communism, in which human beings degenerate and become frustrated and bereft of all hope, initiative and ambition." The government had to set up a separate primary school for our settlement as unsurprisingly the local residents did not want their children to be contaminated by us. I was lucky as we had some very dedicated and capable teachers. Although there were some rough kids, and I did get into the occasional fight, I remember it very positively




Goodness!! At least I have never had to read anything awful about where I grew-up! This is a fairly affluent area the estate does stand out. If any local had been in trouble you could pretty much guarantee they lived on that estate. It is a lot quieter nowadays although still considered rough. My In-laws nearly had an heart attack when their son started courting a girl from `there` happy.gif



The bullying about where you lived is totally inexplicable to me. Is it possible that classmates from well-to-do parts had attacked her for her friendship with you and she was trying to prove something to them ?



Now that is an interesting question I must admit although I do wonder what made Amy behave as she did and have an idea or two, I have never actually considered if she felt under pressure to bully me by others. It is indeed a possibility however I do feel Amy chose to torment me about my home life for her own amusement.



She didn`t seem to have a lot of friends in fact I only ever really saw her with the one that acted as a witness and backed up Amy`s bullying claim. That Amy only seemed to have the one friend is a possible reason she turned against me, she may have been someone who preferred a one to one friendship. I don`t think she was overly happy being part of a social group . Due to how the school divided us by surname once she was placed into her correct form she would have come into contact with different people and she found her special friend, I was dumped but she may not have been thrilled that I took being dumped quite so well! She was Superior to me how dare I not seem overly bothered by her withdrawing her friendship!!



All the time Amy and I where friends I never noticed any snobbery but when Amy joined our school some of the other girls took against her because they thought she was stuck up, my sister on being told Amy was no longer my friend said she was glad because she found her a sly little snob and one of my friends admitted she had never took to Amy because of her sly digs about me being poor.



I suspect Amy always despised me for being poor I was just convenient to begin with, a local girl to show her the ropes, protect her from the local bullies and I had elder siblings who took us to places out of reach without adult supervision, I`d been useful but now she didn`t need me, she had found her own friend who suited her better. She may have bullied me about my home life because she was ashamed she had ever been a friend of someone so unsuitable!



hcj is correct that Amy`s mother was a bit of a social climber no doubt that influenced Amy. Money, possessions, connections where all very important to Amy`s mother. I have to say though I was never made to feel unwelcome in their house I even got invited to a couple of dinner parties, maybe she was showing how charitable she was to the poor!











 
 
jd 19

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 7 2014, 3:10 PM 

A reader in the Ireland asks:

"Was it usual for girls to be caned on the bottom and not the hand at your school?


No I think it was more usual for both girls and boys to be caned on the hand

Did the teacher tell you that it was going to be on the bottom?"

No I can not recall being told where I was going to get caned.

A reader in the United States asks:

"Was your punishment witnessed by another member of staff?"


No a witness was not present.



 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 8 2014, 4:14 PM 

Hello JD19

Thank you very much for your extended reply. It is still difficult to understand the level of vindictiveness that Amy showed, but I guess the reasons must be along the lines discussed. It is a pity that no one has answered my question as to how their school might have handled a situation such as yours. Whilst your Deputy HM was a disgrace I am far from confident someone in a similar position to you would have been listened to. The standard approach seemed to be a summary decision followed by punishment - kids were rarely believed when defending themselves.

Goodness!! At least I have never had to read anything awful about where I grew-up!
I feel a bit of a fraud in quoting that idiot of an MP, as I did not feel disadvantaged or inferior. I only heard of the statement that I quoted 2 years ago (in a new book). However I have no doubt some other MPs and nearby residents thought along similar lines. There was a hepatitis outbreak in the camp that year which didn't help. We were migrants from England ("Ten Pound Poms"), and most stayed in migrant hostels for some years for financial reasons. Some hostels were co-located with welfare housing for locals - in both cases there were a range of residents. The camps were made up of ex-military huts and were cramped and very hot in summer. Most kids remember the camps fondly, but parents were often horrified when they arrived and felt the Aust Govt had misled them. But they were stuck for 2 years - if they went back to the UK before then they had to pay the fare both ways.

 
 
hcj

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 8 2014, 4:52 PM 

Oliver Sydney wrote:

It is a pity that no one has answered my question as to how their school might have handled a situation such as yours.

Perhaps I was fortunate, but I am not aware of any situation in either of my schools that was anything like jd19's experience. They were both very happy places. If problems had occurred, I think the staff would have been sympathetic and would have warned the bully to stop.

Alan Turing grew up only a few miles from my home; it would be interesting to know if his experience was the same?

I can only recall being bullied on two occasions, both times by pupils of other schools while travelling home. Although upsetting, neither event was serious nor was the bullying sustained.

 
 
Alan Turing

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 9 2014, 12:24 PM 

To answer hcj's question: at the grammar school I attended, there wasn't much in the way of serious bullying. Also, both the headmaster and deputy headmaster were thoughtful people who, although using the cane when necessary, would not have done so without taking care to ensure that there was reasonable justification. They would not have attempted to belittle a pupil.

In fact, for both the schools I attended, I'm only aware of three instances of excessive CP. I think I've mentioned all of them in various posts over the years, but I'll revisit them if anyone's interested.

I'm now back in the UK, by the way. No more pictures of Melbourne trams! sad.gif

 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: Six of the Best-who actually had the full six

August 9 2014, 1:01 PM 

Hello hcj and Alan Turing

Thank you very much for your answers. My question was hypothetical, but the statement that you would see such a situation as extremely unlikely in your schools is an answer in itself.

However I would suggest that the situation where someone was bullied at a low (or not so low) level for a considerable period and the victim felt unable to report it would have been more than possible in many schools. Three examples in different countries are those attended by JD19, HH and myself. That the victim would finally hit back (as JD19 and HH did) was also very possible.




 
 
Current Topic - Six of the Best-who actually had the full six  Respond to this message   
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Find more forums on SchoolsCreate your own forum at Network54
 Copyright © 1999-2014 Network54. All rights reserved.   Terms of Use   Privacy Statement