For a long time now, I have searched the internet for articles, accounts and pictures on the subject of the horsing position for receiving the birch. Apparently it was used many years ago-circa unknown to me, but it really does hold great fascination for me personally. Does anyone else share this very specific (niche?) interest? I am keen to find anything related to Horsing. Unfortunately, search results invariably return results about horses-very difficult to find this stuff. Below is a link to a couple of pics in case anyone is unfamiliar with what Horsing is. Thanks guys, hope you can help.
An instrument of correction (cute with the horse flourish) made of material was not always required for a culprit could be piggyback over someones shoulder as in the kissing the rod thread with the whipping of Betty Brown.
Thanks for the resposes so far, but my interest is the human "horse" as in the link in the OP. Very difficult to find such illustrations and accounts of this subject though.Keep em coming.
American Way
Re: "HORSING" position for a birching-info sought
August 29 2010, 5:30 PM
The Knouting and Horsing Of Madame Lapuchin : The Chief Executioner Took Up The Knout, And Holding It In Both Hands And Advancing Till Within A Few Paces Of The Unfortunate Lady, Brought It Suddenly Down On Her Back.
Hi,
I saw your message after carrying out a google search. Similarly I have not found a result that accurately describes the act.
I do not know where my fascination in horsing comes from, I guess I must have seen a photo once, many moons ago
I do know of a lady who may practice the art...or be prepared to have a try.
I will contact her and let you know, or you can email me to let me know your address ( email )
Where are you based?.
I live in West Sussex and am a 56 year old married guy....my wife has zero interest in any cp matters.
Hope to be in touch soon,
kind regards,
paul
The Apache Kid
Re Horsing
March 10 2011, 7:36 PM
I'm not a 100% certain about this but I THINK this was a method used at Rugby and somwhere in the unreliable reaches of my fading memory I saw this illustrated in TOM BROWNS SCHOOLDAYS and quite possibly an early dog eared print amongst the BIGGLES books in my house library at Boarding School circa '45 but don't count on it.
I do know for sure that hoisting a boy over the back of another was'nt an uncommon practice as it was most covenient for a Master to flog a boy 'on the spot' there and then without having to haul him off to his study-there would always be another boy to be found somewhere to assist in the flogging.
Horsing might equaly apply to some kind of apparatus specificaly designed for such a purpose.
Might I suggest that you take a look at COLLIN FARELLS superb CORPUN site.
Hope this helps,The Apache Kid.
Edited: extraneous nonsense removed.
This message has been edited by larry1951 on Mar 10, 2011 7:46 PM
American Way
Re: "HORSING" position for a birching-info sought
March 10 2011, 9:45 PM
This gives a little background on horsing. It should be noted that if you scroll down boys took the whipping for the girls, such are their wiles.
There is a fame story by Mark Twain concerning Tom Sawyer and Becky Sharp as well as my story of pricking a girl with my geometry compass in her backside, ever so gently like a true gentleman and her turning around while the yardstick sister entered the room. She was on the verge of being spanked "brides of christ" style with the yardstick along with the other boys who were talking during an unmonitored study period. The girls would have never forgiven me if I didn't tell the sister that I initiated the "contact". She left the poor girl on pins and needles (no pun intended) as she relented but made her point that she would if other girls misbehaved. Alas, none in my year did.
Hi American Way. Your link above has the Google Books search anchor field set to display the comment on girls deliberately doing a punishable thing to see if their male classmates would gallantly take the rap - and the resulting flogging!
I believe that in the US you can possibly scroll these Google Books links, so you'd be able to get to the horsing references which are just above that reference. In the UK we can't do that - we see only one snippet, and it can't be scrolled.
This link has the search anchor field set to show the two 'horsing' references in the document.
Horse stuff
March 11 2011, 2:58 PM
If anyone can dig out the 70s(?) BBC series "Tom Brown's Schooldays" you can see the process used for a number of canings.
mike
Re: "HORSING" position for a birching-info sought
March 13 2011, 9:06 PM
The Tom Brown "horsing" is also referred to in this thread:
Actually it is another boy who is doing the horsing. The custom seems to have been for another pupil or a school servant to do this. The schoolmarm however is having the boy she is punishing horsed. Not quite the same thing as 'Horsing of a USA school boy by a schoolmarm', but doesn't she look determined about it!
American Way
Disreputable pleasures: less virtuous Victorians at play
February 11 2012, 4:08 PM
Horsing Figure on page 18. Google works here but not sure in the UK? Disreputable pleasures: less virtuous Victorians at play By Mike Huggins, J. A. Mangan
CLICK Disreputable pleasures: less virtuous Victorians at play By Mike Huggins, J. A. Mangan
The young of that generation had been assiduously trained in one special virtue, deviation from whose observance had never a hope of toleration. That was absolute, unquestioning obedience to authority. Youth - youth advanced to nineteen and twenty - childhood, even infancy learned from the beginning that disobedience had and that it could have but one end - punishment, prompt, and, according to circumstances, more or less condign [appropriate]. Delinquents knew that us sure as the morrow's sunrise would follow the sunset of to-day, punishment would succeed upon wanton disobedience. This punishment was corporal. It was not very often preceded nor accompanied by remonstration. It did its work without hesitation, and usually without anger; and the culprit after infliction easily resumed the position he held before in parental affection. Parents, with few exceptions, seemed to regard corporal punishment the only really effectual discipline for children, particularly for boys, and they did not hesitate to employ it when believed necessary, even up to incipient manhood.
[. . .]
Excerpt page 1715-16:
Yet such extremes happened not often, and except with his own and some of the lowliest in social standing, this man kept within limits that he knew he could not overpass in safety. He often chose to diffuse his inflictions in ways more funny than harsh. Sometimes placing his chair in the middle of the room, he caused urchins, after forming a-ring, to trot around him while he tapped their legs with one of his switches. A favorite exercise was one that he called "horsing." A boy, taking upon his back one of his fellows and coevals [classmates], curveted [pranced] about the room, while the master, pursuing, switched, the rider on the part of his body that was most fleshy and exposed. After satisfactory chase, the equestrian entertainment was reversed, rider and horse changing places.
The original of this exhilarating, but rather one-sided sportive exercise, dates farther back than it may be generally supposed. In a letter received by the author of a printed collection of stories of southern life from Dr. Charles Forster Smith, professor of Greek in the University of Wisconsin, occurs the following passage:
"I have had occasion to refer several times recently in lectures on old Greek schooling to the account of the method of punishment called, I believe, "horsing" or "playing horse." as an interesting survival, practically, of old Greek and Roman ways of punishing. An elderly lady told me the other day that she had known this method applied in a single case in England, but there the teacher may have been consciously imitating Roman customs."
Parker, in the work before quoted, says (p. 449): "In some of the schools in Edinburgh 'horsing' was practiced - one boy being flogged on the back of another boy. In English schools 'horsing' was also prevalent."
Willy
Birching Horse
February 12 2012, 1:47 PM
There are various illustrations of the birching horse on the Corpun site. Mostly from prisons and juvenile birchings.
It was simply called "the horse", because it's shape is exactkly like a horse,without the head, and the boy to be birched is tied to it exactly as when a horse is copulating with its mate.
So there is obviously some sexual element to it.
Since the boy was naked, at least from the waist down, when he was being birched on the horse, his forward movements while the birch would striike his bare buttocks would be exactly as when a horse or stallion is copulating over his female mate.
I wonder if whoever designed the birching horse made it intentionally so, to add humiliation to the boy or man being bircced, and also for the viewing pleasure of those witnessing these birchings.
Willy
Re: "HORSING" position for a birching-info sought
February 12 2012, 2:04 PM
Here is a picture of a birching horse.
And an illustration of a youth being birched on the horse in the UK.
Hotlinks to encyclopaedic site removed. Ed.
This message has been edited by larry1951 on Feb 18, 2012 10:58 AM
American Way
Re: "HORSING" position for a birching-info sought
February 15 2012, 3:04 PM
Horsing depicted by a most famous painter. None other than Francisco de Goya. It is not altogether different from other more famous scenes. He was approximately 34 years of age (c. 1780). The picture shows a school corporal punishment scene that might be characteristic of how the same was administered in 18th century spanish schools. On the right, two other students are crying; they have obviously been punished just before. IMHO the two who are crying are two old to be students. Maybe they are the teachers.
I read your above take on the derivation of the term 'horse' in 'birching horse' with great interest. Tell me, do you have any illuminating insights into the derivation of 'horse' in 'saw horse' and 'clothes horse' please?
A friendly word of warning. Colin Farrell, the Webmaster of Corpun.Com, sometimes visits this estimable Forum. If he chances to look at this thread you may not be flavour of the month, having hotlinked two of his images in your February 12 2012, 2:04 PM post above.
Of course, I could be misjudging you. Possibly you obtained his permission first?
Willy
Horsing and Farrell
February 18 2012, 2:46 AM
Hello A_L,
I really don't have any idea why the saw horse or the clothes horse are named thus.
But about the other issue. I really find it arrogant and mistaken on the part of Colin Farrell to make such a statement which you kindly linked, seeing that none, or nearly none of the pictures on his site are his in the first place, and which he himself has copied from other sites.
That is a really hypocritic post and statement by Colin Farrell, if ever there was one.
Even more, I have seen posts on this same forum by Farrell, and recent ones too, including one addressed to me, asking members to send him links to video clips about CP so that he can show them on his site.
So I find this post of his really laughable, and am doing so as I write this.
I hope that he answers back with an explanation for this incongruity.
KK, not only have I not given Mr.farrell "a great injustice" as you put it, but on the contrary I have given him a boost by avertising his site. As you can see from the explanation and answer I have given on the thread you linked, which I hope will appear on that page, as I just posted it before this post in answer to your mistaken assumption.
If Colin Farrell does not want people to hotlink his(?) pictures he shouldn't put them up as hotlinks in the first place. It is what most people normally do when they want to lnk a single picture.
This is a source that is replete with references of the pros and cons of the target, back, breech, palms and fingers. They certainly were not mollycoddled in those days.
Reports from commissioners By Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons. I am not sure if this source has already been mentioned with this estimable Forum but I'm sure A_L, the historian of posts here, will be the first to let me know.
The Christ's Hospital Inquiry Commission. Report Presented to Both Houses of Parliament by Command of Her Majesty. London: HMSO, 1877.
'To enquire generally, as well into the circumstances under which the suicide of a boy named William Arthur Gibbs has there taken place, as into the discipline and management of the said school.'
American Way
Re: "HORSING" position for a birching-info sought
June 13 2012, 12:41 AM
KK I have found using the search word "caning" of some value.
I am flattered to be referred to as 'the historian of posts here', but others are much better than me! Jenny for instance never ceases to amaze me with her facility in this area - witness recent threads!
In this case I have I problem anyway, as I don't appear to see the same thing as KK when I follow your above link (see below). My understanding is that due to the various rights issues connected with Google books people in different parts of the world will not see the same thing, but will only see those aspects which are permitted under copyright agreements relevant to their part of the world. All I see is one short snippet which is talking about management expenses and disbursement of funds for an unspecified school. The page doesn't even specify the title of the report.
Hi KK,
As noted above, I'm baffled as to how you got to something about The Christ's Hospital Inquiry Commission, but as you did, this page gives some details regarding the unfortunate case of 12 year old William Gibbs at Christ's Hospital in 1877. Apparently something of a cause célèbre at the time!
If you have academic access rights you may be able to access the full report of the Christ's Hospital Inquiry Commission via this service, but then again you might not! I've no means of telling.
KK
Re: Christ's Hospital
June 13 2012, 1:19 AM
Dear AL,
I am gratified you are baffled. This indicates you have a good understanding of the situation.
American Way's hyperlink gave me access to a snippet quite lacking in interest. However, by searching the book for various words and paragraph numbers I got to see a few snippets that revealed more and allowed me to provide the info I did, with some help from Google. Since, I have used a proxy server to download the whole book - a collection of miscellaneous reports. I will digest the Christ's Hospital report and may comment further.
As a subject of her Most Excellent Majesty's successor, it grieves me greatly that the American rebels have direct access to her Majestys reports (Victoria R) and I do not.
Another_Lurker
Re: "HORSING" position for a birching-info sought
June 13 2012, 1:20 AM
Hi American Way,
I hadn't seen your June 13 2012, 12:41 AM post when I made my post above. But errm, isn't the link in that post exactly the same as the link in your June 12 2012, 3:32 PM post? It certainly is in my browser, namely this one:
As I think it is quite important to establish that if you use Google Books links you may possibly need to give a little bit more detail regarding what they are about and why you've linked them, here is what I, and I believe other people using UK based ISPs, see when they follow your link above:
As you can see, just one snippet, and nothing whatsoever to do with caning, of girls or anyone else for that matter! Certainly nothing whatsoever about "references of the pros and cons of the target, back, breech, palms and fingers".
American Way
Perhaps another way to skin a cat?
June 13 2012, 1:27 AM
Logically it would not seem to make a difference but one never knows.
Maybe you could Google.
"Monday 23 july 1877 Dean of Christchurch."
Try the first and fourth hit. No big waste of time and nothing ventured nothing gained. If you're not blocked just scroll down and look at the two days of evidence.
Let me know if that helps over there.
Another_Lurker
Re: Christ's Hospital
June 13 2012, 2:36 AM
Hi KK,
There's not a lot I envy in the US, but on the short list is their freedom of information situation. As regards publications this seems to mean that provided there's no access restriction in the US it's available. Hence the complete validity of your very pertinent remark regarding the American rebels have direct access to her Majestys reports (Victoria R) that you and I, subjects of the British and Commonwealth crown, do not enjoy.
Google of course is very careful not to take risks on this and expose itself to litigation abroad, and possible state bans, hence it's detailed checks which ensure that if you can be identified as in the UK you are directed to Google.co.uk, where UK relevant restrictions on access are operated, rather than to Google.com, where they aren't.
One can of course use US based proxies to circumvent this. However, I've no requirement for a proper professional fee charging proxy at present, and the free services all have security implications. So I can't take that route. In any event I doubt if more than a handful of visitors here (you know who you are ) are aware of it anyway.
Because this estimable Forum has regular contributors from various parts of the globe one sometimes becomes aware of the differences between the links provided by the various Google servers, as per my response to American Way below.
Hi American Way,
Thank you for providing the addition method of linking. Sadly Google UK doesn't find any hits for the full 'quoted' search term. There are various non-specific hits, but none of them seem to fit the bill. In this particular case I think that is very strange indeed, as the incident was in the UK! Just in case I tried switching SafeSearch off, but that doesn't make any difference.
American Way
Re: "HORSING" position for a birching-info sought
June 13 2012, 4:48 AM
This will give you a flavor of what one would have in store if they could access the proceedings.
The word "hospital" is used in its old sense - a charitable institution providing a home or care for orphans, the poor or the elderly.
KK
Educating girls
June 19 2012, 2:01 AM
American Way hyperlinked to a Google-scanned document that supposedly mentioned the caning of girls. The document is the report of a UK parliamentary inquiry into a suicide at and the management of Christ's Hospital school in London in 1877. The cited page (84) contains questions asked of the Treasurer and CEO of the school, John Allcroft, regarding proposals to restructure the school. Question 2901 may be interest.
Response To Horsing
September 6 2012, 3:26 AM
Tis most definately one of the more unusual positions to receive a caning. However, this position in called 'Horsing' and was commonly used in the mid Victorian era for classroom discipline.
The classroom monitor would be called out to the front of the class and the person to be caned would then stand immediately behind him and offer his arms up, whereby the monitor would grasp the boys wrists and haul him across his back. This left the recipients bottom at just the right height for a caning and of course prevented unnecessary struggling whilst the punishment cane did its work.
Of course the monitor had the best of both world's - the recipients mouth would be just a few inches from his ear and he would hear every howl and owey, together with being able to feel every grimmace and whince made by the recipient as the cane found it mark.
There is a good scene showing a classroom 'horsing' in the 1941 drama film of 'How Green Was My Valley' directed by John Ford, the film based on the 1939 novel by Richard Llewellyn of the life in a Welsh mining village.
Hope this bit of info explains the method a little better for you.
Kevin
American Way
Google Books
September 6 2012, 12:39 PM
Link for the convenience of those who have access to Free Google Books.
There seems to be a certain confusion about what "horsing" means in the CP context. Kevin Frazier, above, accurately describes its traditional meaning, at least as far as British independent schools were concerned. There is a famous drawing of a schoolboy being horsed for a birching in Van Yelyr's rather unsatisfactory 1941 book. I have reproduced the drawing on my website as part of a review of that book.
Incidentally the drawing is not very good because it shows the headmaster holding the birch in the wrong hand for the position he is standing in.
Kevin
Horsing
September 9 2012, 10:58 PM
Then again there was another rather sadistic method of punishment known as 'horsing'. This where the recipient was made to sit on a narrow pole, or triangular framed cross member, with the apex of the triangle being uppermost! Their hands would be bound or secured and their feet would be completely off-the-ground, whereby all of their body weight was forced downwards, the pole or triangular section would part the cheeks of their bottom, therefore their entire body weight was resting on their anal opening or in the case of females, the anal and vaginal opening.
Sometime heavy weights would be attached to the ankles making the downward pressure even more unbearable. Recipients were generally made to sit there for a pre decided degree of time, not at all pleasant and I believe this punishment was once called 'riding the horse' and was used by the army as a punishment, in the very early days of cavalry.
While Kevin may find the detail of his post interesting, sadism has nothing to do with the subject of this board, which is "School Corporal Punishment"
Kevin
Horsing
September 10 2012, 5:00 PM
To HCJ - No Kevin doesn't find sadistic practices or sadism interesting, I quoted the other version of horsing so as to avoid any confusion as to what it meant, as a former school punishment.
Please ask before your print!
hcj
Re: "HORSING" position for a birching-info sought
September 10 2012, 6:37 PM
Kevin,
Anybody reading this thread before your post would have been in no doubt as to the meaning of "horsing" in the history of school corporal punishment.
Your post contained a gratuitous description of a sadistic act. In my opinion that is inappropriate language in this Forum.
It is difficult enough persuading people that having an interest in school corporal punishment is not the hallmark of a sadist, pervert or abuser. You must have thought your post was interesting enough to share with others or you would not have written it.
As to your suggestion that I should ask you before commenting that I was offended by your post, I'm sorry, but that is not the way I work!
Kevin
Horsing
September 16 2012, 1:13 AM
Better you learn before you work, or maybe you just might need some proper SCHOOL punishment to allow you to remember your manners and not be so bombastic and arrogant and make spurious assumptions about total strangers!
Do you hear there!
American Way
Horsing and other forms of SCP
March 23 2013, 5:23 PM
1902. Horsing and other forms of school corporal punishment. Men and women are always butting heads. Getting them in the habit.
![[linked image]](http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/calamus_us/Horsing.gif)
![[linked image]](http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/calamus_us/Capture.jpg)
