<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 23 2011 at 10:10 PM
OZGeorge 

 
I am intrigued by the number of accounts that I have heard from various friends, relatives and acquaintances, of their experiences at school, being punished on the nearly or completely bare bottom.

I quite easily believe that this was a very common thing in Victorian and Edwardian times, and quite possibly up until the WW2.
There is too much evidence in literature and the anecdotes of people,predominatly male, who attended school in these times.

I did not believe that it would have been a very regular or common activity in relatively modern times, at least in schools.
But the number of accounts I have heard over the years, as I said, makes me wonder.

In government run state schools,the accounts generally occur in infants or primary school, and rarely was the bottom bared completely, except for one instance from a small rural school.

Private schools, in particular boys only primary schools,appear to have the majority of accounts of pants down bare bottom smackings,mostly performed by female teachers.
I have not heard any tales of girls receiving this punishment,but that may be merely a reluctance on their part to describe such things.

I do know that my boy cousins living in the UK, were spanked and slippered on the bare bottom at their prep school, circa 1960s.
This was traditional apparently, and my Uncle was well aware of it, as he attended the same school as a boy.
My cousins used to mention these punishments in letters to me, usually in a humourous way.

A very good friend of my older brother, who boarded at a very distinguished Marist Brothers college in Sydney, described one of the brothers as making the boys take down their trousers before caning them.
Apparently this teacher would cheerfully inform the boy,that he was going to take some of the skin off his bottom, before laying on the cane.

I know several other chaps who attended various boarding schools,who mentioned the habits of some of the teachers, some of which appear to be quite bizarre,including one who took it upon himself,to sooth the boys' bare bottoms with lanolin after a caning.

My own personal experience is of a partially bared bottom in primary school, where our female teachers, never the males, would pull our little shorts and underpants up our behinds to bare our cheeks to smack.

At my secondary school, the prefects would slipper boys in the prefects room on the bare bottom, to 'liven them up'.
This was more in the mannner of 'hazing',which I think is the American term,than actually official punishment.
Generally it was applied to younger boys who slacked off at games.

It would be interesting if other contributors to the forum have heard of,or have personal experiences, of this.

In closing, I should mention my surprise,that in listening to these accounts, I have not detected any particular abhorrence or resentment from the recipients.
On the contrary, most are related in a spirit of jocularity.

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
Veronica

Bare bottoms

January 24 2011, 6:55 AM 

In Spain, where the CP was not as ritualistic as in UK was not until the early 70's may receive a spanking on the bare bottom, just depending on the school and the teacher, was a well-entrenched in some school principals and parents at home.
here were two types of schools, state-run public where it was generally very rare that this could happen. In these, the teachers themselves were responsible for administering discipline by slapping the face or beaten in the palm of the hand with a ruler, used to be pretty tough. To visit the director had to be a very serious crime.
The other schools, run by the Catholic Church were more refined in CP, nearest UK style. In them, teachers also administered in the classroom or hallway discipline, also with slaps in the face or wooden ruler on the palm of the hands or buttocks, as an immediate way to take control of students .
But if this was not effective, then visited the school principal where he received the belt, sometimes on bare bottom.
If your father discovered that the school had got the belt on the rear naked at home had the second dose in the same way, so it was a very reportable. Neither school in my long life, first as a student and then as a worker at the school, of any abuse. For adults, on the bare butt punishment was a way to make it more severe and had no sexual connotation. They had known no other way to do it, they themselves learned from their own experience.

 
 
OZGeorge

Spain.

January 24 2011, 9:09 AM 

Slapping children across the face sounds like a pretty drastic and nasty punishment to me, but of course, different cultures have different attitudes to things.

Certainly I would have been most greatly offended by anybody slapping my face, which has a connotation of a deadly insult to Anglo-Saxons.

I can certainly relate to the Father spanking his child again at home, if a punishment at school comes to his attention.

This certainly happened to myself and my siblings on a number of occasions.

I had never really considered Spain as a country upholding CP, but I guess that is just ignorance on my part.

Thank you Veronica for your interesting post.

 
 
Mark

Bare bottom spankings at primary school

January 24 2011, 9:41 AM 

I started school in 1967 and until we went to comprehensive school bare bottom spankings were fairly common at my primary and middle school. I myself got spanked this way, it was always with the hand. Some teachers would use the slipper but that was always over our shorts. I witnessed my first bare bottom spanking on only my second day, and I got one a little later. Also previous posters are correct in saying that it was common for parents to spank use again at home of writing got one at school. We had one teacher for two years and she could not be bothered with pulling up our shorts to spank us show would quickly pull them down. Some days I got spanked so hard that my bottom was absolutely bright red and burning, and once at home I got another one straight away.

 
 
Matthew

Common !

January 24 2011, 10:14 AM 

I was at a boys prep school in the 1960s - and then went on to a boys grammer school.

At the prep school we were regularly spanked for being naughty and for poor work - Classroom spankings were over shorts, but if one was sent to the head teacher then one could be certain that ones shorts and pants were lowered.

Most other teachers also spanked bare bottoms if provoked - but it was always done in private at the end of lessons (or as a result of an instruction to return to see me during break time).

At grammer school the cane was used by the head teacher - I never had it : but in the junior years form masters regularly brought kids back at break time for a detention / spanking / slippering. I recall being spanked by our english teacher with three others, we all witnessed each others punishment and embarrasment at being told to drop trousers and pants for our spanking.

No episode struck me as abusive - it was just the norm.

A propper school spanking left one with a red backside for two to three hours and by the time one went home most if not all of the redness had gone. The aforementioned english teacher was a particular expert ; he gave about 10-20 slow relatively hard smacks alternating sides and then a further 20 - 30 much faster in groups of two to three on the same spot ... having experienced and seen the effect on others, you felt a slow and increasing burning ... and to look at the entire bottom was red (but there were not discrete hand or finger marks) and there was never any aftermath of bruising. My experience for my self from having seen others was at the end of a spanking one just wanted to leap up and rub the sting away (and as 11-12 year old we did this just on the edge of tears and withought a thought to what else was on display as you rubbed the burning area better .... i guess modesty came a bit later in those days !)


 
 

StevefromSE5

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 24 2011, 3:43 PM 

Hi OzGeorge

Apart from one or two fevered imaginations on here, it DIDN'T happen in 99.9999% of state schools beyond infants level, and only in a few at that level, either.

In all 3 instances I've encountered, the teacher doing it was swiftly retired or sacked.

Why-because parents complained, about the obvious potential for child molestation, for a start.

Steve

 
 
mark

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 24 2011, 6:33 PM 

Now the polemics start. maybe more people would post here if they didnt feel threatened by the group control freaks or dismissed as liars.

 
 
mark

offensive drivel steve

January 24 2011, 6:35 PM 

goodbye

 
 
OZGeorge

Thank you.

January 24 2011, 10:19 PM 

Thank you to all of those folks who have responded to this question.

It was of a general nature, and simply because, as I say, I have encountered quite a number of relatives, friends and acquaintances, who have mentioned this over the years.

I cannot, of course,bear witness to the veracity of their accounts,and for all I know, many may be embellishments,or simply untrue.

Having said that, I see no reason why the vast majority of them should have dissembled, as they appeared to treat these ancedotes in the manner of amusing memories,rather than some dark,guilty secret that they are ashamed of.

Equally,I am happy to hear from other contributors, who are willing to share their experiences.

If they indeed have 'fevered imaginations', as Steve has suggested,then that is something that they will have to deal with themselves.

Personally, I have found nothing in the posts that I have read so far, which I could dismiss as fantasy, with no liklihood of having happened.

It is usually relatively easy when reading some posts, to spot 'fevered fantasy',as it is generally somewhat far-fetched.

Obviously, I would prefer contributors to write the 'truth,the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!',but I am not conducting a Royal Commission.

Steve has stated that bare bottom smackings did not occur in 99.99% of government run state schools,and he may well be correct.

Certainly I can recall only one account of a pants-down spanking in a state school, and this was in a small,one teacher school in a rural area during the late 1950s.

But unless Steve attended 99.99% of state schools in the whole period after the second World War, I do not see how he can confidently make his claim.

I attended a government run state infants and primary school,and we most certainly had our bottoms all but bared for smackings, right up until the 7th grade, when I had my first male teacher.

Little girls also were spanked with panties pulled up their bottoms until the corporal punishment of girls was discontinued by the timeI was finishing 4th grade.

Certainly no teachers at our school were admonished,disciplined or sacked for this practice, which it would appear was considered quite normal,fit and proper,and no parent I ever heard of complained of it.

My own parents spanked my siblings and myself on our bare bottoms at home, and I know that they had no issue whatsoever with the manner we were punished at school.

In fact, I believe that they thought that the teachers were too soft on us.

Parents at that time actually backed teachers up, and if I got spanked,my parents would tell me that I deserved it.

Not that I was in a hurry to tell them anyway, due to the risk of a parental spanking on top of the one at school.

If Steve wishes to disbelieve this,then that is certainly his priviledge.

I am not about to go frantically rummaging through old school records and files,and try to dig up some of my old teachers to try to confirm their actions.
(Actually, most would have to be dug up now, with a shovel!--Sorry! Bad joke!)

I encourage people to continue posting their views and experiences on this thread, as I for one will most certainly enjoy reading them.

 
 

StevefromSE5

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 24 2011, 10:45 PM 

GEORGE

I, like you, am intrigued by others' experiences. This goes for what they or I have heard 2nd or 3rd hand, too.

Unfortunately, it doesn't extend to total fantasies!

Things were different in at least some aspects of Aus, I've no reason to doubt that. But I'd prefer you are given an accurate picture of how things were, simply out of common courtesy.

I certainly can't speak about prep schools or private ones they fed with any authority. But I can assure you IF the sort of twaddle others are peddling had happened in the state sector, the first person to get wind of it would have been the Head, and I can assure you their first line of defence from enraged parents would have been protect their own backside and get rid of the pervert teacher.

And why else would any teacher do it in private & not in front of the class? They wouldn't have had a leg to stand on once one kid complained to their parents!

Mind you, sounds like YOU didn't have a leg to stand on with them thigh-smackers, either happy.gif That's the worst I've heard from Aus, apart from nuns & the cane handles of feather dusters;good job the two never got together-would be as bad as Jehovah's double glazing!!


Steve

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 24 2011, 11:52 PM 

Hi Steve. I'm not going to burn any candles for Mark, he would obviously have some difficulty coping with the rough and tumble of this estimable Forum. I am however just a teeny touch concerned at your post to which he seems to have taken exception.

I'll happily agree with you that in, we'll say the second half of the 20th century, corporal punishments in State Secondary Schools in the UK on the nearly or completely bare bottom (OZGeorge's terms of reference) would be very rare.

But your statement that:

it DIDN'T happen in 99.9999% of state schools beyond infants level, and only in a few at that level, either.

Sorry, but the first part of that can be disproved straight away. Your percentage implies a possibility of it happening in one school in a million. There are a great deal fewer than one million State Secondary Schools in the UK, and yet we know that at Helston Grammar School in 1964 two senior girls were beaten with the back of a hairbrush, effectively on the bare bottom, by the Headmaster and a Senior Mistress. Agreed the staff concerned were prosecuted, but the punishment happened, and in a state school.

There are extensive posts here, to which you and I were substantial contributors, concerning your researches on Bacons School, where again girls appear to have been punished effectively on the bare bottom, this time by caning. In that case although the Headmaster was retired, ostensibly on health grounds, no one was prosecuted.

I think we can be reasonably certain that Helston Grammar and Bacons were not alone. And if it happened to girls it almost certainly happened to boys somewhere. So I really don't think your 99ยท9999% is reasonable. And if you wonder why I've got that argument off pat, it's because I had to use an almost identical one with our mutual friend Lotta Nonsense a long time ago when she too got a little carried away with her percentages. happy.gif

Turning to State pre-secondary schools, and note that Mark was talking about pre-secondary schools, I have absolutely no doubt that it happened rather more than at secondary level. Yes it might be a few cases relative to the number of schools, but it would still be a significant number. You yourself posted one case from your own experience here. I'm sure there were lots of others.

And now private schools, where punishment on the bare was always probably more common than in state schools:

From an impeccable source, three cases of bare bottom punishments in Australian private schools are quoted by Doctor Dominum in his splendid account of some of his own school experiences here.

A sadly missed and I believe reliable contributor Severnboy gave the only account I've ever seen of co-ed bare bottom caning, at an English Prep School in the 1950s here. He expands on the incident in subsequent posts in the thread, which is to be found here

And finally a second hand, but I believe true tale from me. When I started at secondary school in 1954 the Form Master, recently featured in the 'Spot the Another_Lurker' competition photograph, happy.gif wielded a size 12 leather soled sandal for disciplinary purposes. Happily I never encountered it, but many of my form mates did. Despite the reluctance of 12 year old boys to betray any weakness in front of their contemporaries, some tears were not unusual. It was a very severe punishment.

One boy however was completely immune to the pain, or at least that's how it appeared. We both lived north of the city, travelled on the same buses, and became friends. Prior to starting at the secondary school, while his parents were abroad for a period, he'd been at a small nearby boarding Prep School (not the Prep school associated with our current school) which our bus went past.

His explanation of his immunity to the sandal was that he'd regularly had six on the bare with the cane at the Prep school and after that the sandal didn't hurt much! I have to say though that he was a pretty tough character. I was quite a bit bigger than him but I certainly wouldn't have risked a fight! The Prep school concerned is long closed, but its name lives on in a quite different type of school.

 
 

StevefromSE5

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 25 2011, 11:03 AM 

A_L

Yes, statistically, I might have been guilty of a wee exaggeration!

However, I didn't want OzGeorge being given the impression by the usual standard of contributions to Silk Shorts that the casual slippering or smacking of bared bums by ordinary teachers was going on throughout the state system, because it plainly wasn't.

Head teachers could indeed have done it, caning included, with impunity, but even those that did would still have not taken kindly to other teachers muscling in on the pants-lowering scene.

Statistically, yes, it must have happened in the state system to a very few, but the chances of two of those unfortunates regaling their experiences on George's thread so quickly in the approved homoerotic Silk Shorts manner struck me as a wee bit too much of a coincidence. Especially, of course, with the current troll-fest we have been forced to endure!



Steve

 
 
prof.n

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 25 2011, 1:05 PM 

Hi Steve,

Just a bit of perspective on the 'private sector'. Now I can't speak for the Slades of this world, but as far as run of the mill public schools were concerned, if ours was anything to judge by, bare bottomed caning were abolished in the fifties. In my school, according to the current school historian the regulations were amended with the appointment of the liberal headmaster in the early 60's : however the punishment had last been used - once - in the fifties, and by report no more than a handful of times in the decade previously. It was was reserved in our case for heinous offenses , normally involving something that might pass as either strongly anti social or even in those days 'criminal' and perverted. ( single sex boarding school - doesn't take much imagination ).

I'm pretty sure most of the HMC schools would be similar, although I stand to be corrected by anyone who had a different experience.

I now have a sort of rule of thumb in my head ,a ready reckoner, assuming we can rely on the general thrust of the postings here, and that is Australia seems on the whole to be about 40/45 years behind us in their approach to corporal punishment in those schools that still practice it. What is reported here as going on there , seems to me to fit into independent schools in the mid 60' to early 70's here. For some reason which we can speculate about, the reform movement of the 70's and early 80's here sailed straight past poor old Australian students. This seems to reflect a mix of cultural differences, geo-political differences ( Vietnam), inherent social conservatism . and also this apparent unwillingness to confront school authorities, which Doc puts down as selflessness , and I'm afraid I read as a strange passivity

Heres a golden oldie with graphics from 'Watchman', the cult film ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8UNvO4QDx8&feature=related

Quite appropriate!

 
 

Another_Lurker

Surely some mistake!

January 25 2011, 8:44 PM 

Hi Prof.n. You said above:

For some reason which we can speculate about, the reform movement of the 70's and early 80's here sailed straight past poor old Australian students. This seems to reflect a mix of cultural differences, geo-political differences ( Vietnam), inherent social conservatism . and also this apparent unwillingness to confront school authorities, which Doc puts down as selflessness , and I'm afraid I read as a strange passivity.

Now I can live with you praising the school councils and student power movements of the 1960s and the 'reform movement' of the 1970s and early 1980s, which you think were highly desirable and I think helped to bring education here to the point where now it is effectively unfit for purpose.

I can accommodate (just about) the fact that for you as a teenager the receipt of corporal punishment in the form of a caning was instrumental in establishing your rightful place in the school's hierarchy and was a good thing, but when dealing any other teenagers, male or female, the use of the cane is fraught with dangers too hideous to even contemplate such an act.

For all these I can bite my tongue and hold my peace. But passive Australians! No, I'm sorry, that's not just stretching credulity, it's kicking it right out of the ground! Have you ever met any Australians? happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

 
 

StevefromSE5

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 25 2011, 8:54 PM 

A_L

Most of a party of 17 Aussies have recently seemed to be adopting Mahatma Gandhi's passive resistance approach to punishment physical or mental.

Or didn't you follow the cricket?! happy.gifhappy.gif

Interesting one, that. I think it does vary from state to state out there. Perhaps, you know, it also varied by county out here, too.

Have to wonder now. I bet there were some conservative mainly rural LEA's(or their precursors)which might just have been as fossilized in their reaction to the 20th Century as parts of Aus were.

Well, there's a new thread for whoever wants to start it!


Steve

 
 
Willy

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 25 2011, 9:34 PM 

Mark said :

"Now the polemics start. maybe more people would post here if they didnt feel threatened by the group control freaks or dismissed as liars."

I agree with you, Mark. This small group, the usual two or three people, seem to have appointed themselves as judges of others' posts and classifying those they don't like as liars and other offensive names and bullying them out of the forum.
I have already complained about this to the Administrators of this forum , but obviously no steps have been taken to ban these forum bullies. They obviously want to reserve this forum just for themselves by imposing themselves on others, with the result, as you say, that many are being put off from posting on this forum.
I should think that the language they are using is also against the Nework 54 rules.


 
 
Willy

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 25 2011, 9:35 PM 

Mark said :

"Now the polemics start. maybe more people would post here if they didnt feel threatened by the group control freaks or dismissed as liars."

I agree with you, Mark. This small group, the usual two or three people, seem to have appointed themselves as judges of others' posts and classifying those they don't like as liars and other offensive names and bullying them out of the forum.
I have already complained about this to the Administrators of this forum , but obviously no steps have been taken to ban these forum bullies. They obviously want to reserve this forum just for themselves by imposing themselves on others, with the result, as you say, that many are being put off from posting on this forum.
I should think that the language they are using is also against the Nework 54 rules.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 25 2011, 9:39 PM 

Hi Steve. In response to my expressing incredulity at Prof.n's concept of passive Australians you said:

A_L

Most of a party of 17 Aussies have recently seemed to be adopting Mahatma Gandhi's passive resistance approach to punishment physical or mental.

Or didn't you follow the cricket?! happy.gifhappy.gif

Well no, I don't actually follow cricket. But it is forcibly brought to my attention in my near daily enforced exposure to an hour or so of TV news. We may have been triumphant in the rather dreary 5 day game series, wink.gif but am I not correct in saying that in the much more dynamic one day game series our Australian cousins are, to put it kindly, proving that they are far from passive! Or have I misunderstood something? happy.gif

Your speculation regarding LEAs is an interesting one. Deep in rural Borsetshire, could they still be caning and slippering away, oblivious to the fact that we're in the 21st century now and school CP has been banned for many years. Maybe even with a bit of 'nearly or completely bare bottom' punishment thrown in for good measure? See, I do sometimes try to post on topic! happy.gif

No, sadly I fear not. I do know of one establishment not a thousand miles from me where such activities and more besides, even ****** ***** *** ********, are an everyday occurrence, but it's what is euphemistically known as an 'adult' school! sad.gif

 
 
Gary

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 25 2011, 10:04 PM 

'I did not believe that it would have been a very regular or common activity in relatively modern times, at least in schools.'

It wasn't common in schools, certainly. But it certainly was at home, in fact it was very much the norm.

One of my primary school teachers lived a few doors down from us, and was a friend of the family. Though she never spanked me, I know that she did threaten to take our trousers down and smack our bottoms - which I believe she did to a couple of boys in my class (talking late 70s, here). However, it was never bare.

One thing I will say, though, is she looked after my brother, myself and a few other local kids during the summer holidays, and tanned a couple of kids' bare backsides mover the years!

 
 

StevefromSE5

Re: How common was bare bottom discipline?

January 25 2011, 10:06 PM 

A_L

Sorry, but as I was brought up in the era of 3-day & 5-day matches only, the Mickey Mouse 1-day cricket hasn't been as avidly followed by me.

Sufficient to say, the inter-form cricket we played at MGS was all over-limited, so I reasoned, if I can play it, then Internationals in it aren't that much cop.

Incidentally, in 2W v 2L, sometime in the summer of 1965, yours truly broke windows at school with 2 successive hits. The first was a lucky bounce off the grass & into a large low pane.

The second was a huge six, through long-on(or cow corner to the cynics),right through the highest pane on the 2nd storey Geography room. The bowler, incidentally, became an ordained priest according to FR, though I don't think my mistreatment of his bowling had anything to do with that career choice, though God may have called him away from bowling for reasons we know not!!

You never know about Borsetshire;I think there were a few people who believed the Feudal Herald & Reactionary Times that used to feature in the Telegraph's Peterborough column in the 1970'/1980's was for real.

Yes, I used to read that & the FT-mainly for the sport, as the FT Monday football report was always from our old mate TE Bailey, yes, Trevor himself.

GEORGE

If you haven't already been introduced to it, some of us do have an alarming habit of wandering off post, so my apologies I never encountered your thigh-slapping schoolmarms, otherwise I might have had more concentration drummed into me!!


Steve

 
 
 
< Previous Page 1 2 3 4 59 Next >
  Respond to this message   
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Find more forums on SchoolsCreate your own forum at Network54
 Copyright © 1999-2014 Network54. All rights reserved.   Terms of Use   Privacy Statement