Hi there people - in the light of the current craze of "lets ban I8" - which - for the record - I am against, lets have a look at an email I recieved from an ex-forum member (and a current S3 owner):


I don't intend recording the detailed history of this matter, but if anyone requires a complete record, including the really "hot" debates prior to one being censored by Andre and his committee and the other completely removed from the website they can drop me an e-mail at director@gaiaresearch.co.za . The ACSA list exchanges total some 15,000 words, mostly mine and the forum discussion threads, some 1300 words for banned "Subaru Club Dyno Invite" thread and some 2500 words for the "SuperChips VS Chiplogic" thread. These are actually quite exhilirating to re-read. The Forum was abuzz with excitement and has never been the same again.

It is not my intention to start any of this up again, nor, despite his terrible injustice to me, to kick Andre when he is at an all time low. However, this matter does have bearing on and arises afresh as a result of the "I8A4RE Affair", in that since my resignation from the Club 18 months ago in protest against a Committee disciplinary hearing against me for "possible misconduct", without my being afforded a the fundamental right to representation or to know or answer to the charges, I have again, been denied readmittance to the forum, in spite of my meeting all the required criteria to legitimately participate and share my love and defence of and experience with Audis.

As an interested visitor and observer, illegitimately denied the right to communicate all this time with fellow Audi enthusiasts, it is particularly poignant that 18A4RE is permitted to post BMW content on the Audi forum, whilst I, an Audi nut, am forced to remain out in the cold, even 18 months after the "Thomson Saga". I have little objection to 18A4RE posting to the forum, rather my gripe is that Andre still sees fit to play God and vindictively cut me off from social contact with fellow Audi enthusiasts via a forum that I too, as a founding member, helped to materialise and to popularise. I was in the process of starting up the Southern Cape Club chapter at the time.

For the record, it was I, who on that very forum, as a distant participant (I am in Knysna) nominated Andre as the Club's first chairman in recognition for his herculian efforts to get the Club and forum up and running (several of us used to touch base on international fora such as AudiSport.net, where the idea for our own local forum germinated). It was unfortunate that Andre was unable to tolerate an occassional beating on some or other issue being debated and that his and my styles clashed from time to time, mainly as a result of my cheekiness and his said intolerance of another asserting themselves in his company and what he believed was his turf. Apparently, the easy way out for him in the end, was to simply dispose of, rather than engage the challenger.

If Andre posts his one-sided and usually bisased take on this issue to the forum, again denying me the fundamental right of a defence, please contact me directly for the complete history and any necessary defensive comments in response therto, if you hold justice in high regard. What and why am I attempting to communicate to Forum members? Simply the fact that I was wronged, yet quietly bid my time, but now, especially given the vote to allow 18A4RE to post to the forum, deem the time to be right for me to be allowed readmission to the Forum that I should not have been barred from posting on in the first place.

Pics of my Audi in it's current , quite radical customised and modified state can be viewed here:









Let these stand as my credentials as to whether I am a true Audi enthusiast and ought to be allowed to post and share with fellow enthusiasts on the Forum.

Peace follows Justice.

Regards

Stuart Thomson

Hi
I would support Stuarts inclusion on the forum, if I may, even if I am not a member
I have had the opportunity to speak to Stuart numerous times over the last couple of months, and am actually meeting up with him next week in the EC to do some fettling on his S3. His knowledge and enthusiasm for the 4 rings is unquestionable, and I am sure he would add value now, whatever the nature of the past acromony.
Same goes for I8, who I am sure at this stage has had enough of a public lambasting, and is unlikely to revisit history!
I also think that whilst Andres' opinions and stance may be strong, he has historically made one helluva contribution to the club.
I also think he has had enough whipping, and I really do think the above communication (with respect to another good 'oke' Andrew) could have been aired/resolved between committee members without another public .
Bury the hatchet all! Make kW, not war.

I support for Stuart to be allowed back, I have had discussions with him in the past, and he is a true Audi Fan. He is also very helpful

Regards
Wild1.8T

Wild 1.8T
Nothing Like Boost

I would like to urge the Committee to allow Stuart back into the Club. I believe (and have always believed) that he can add value to this forum - he has done quite a bit of pioneering on his car, and I would like to share ideas with him on the Forum.

Whatever happened was a long time ago. Lets forget the past and look towards the future!

I dont know what happened in the past, however i dont believe any single individual should have the power to kick someone off this forum. I believe it should be a collective decision by all members of the club/forum.

Its sad to know that someone who is an Audi enthusiast is not allowed to be on this forum. As South Africans we should know better than this, reflecting our past.

I will also like to get Stuart back on the forum!

I emailed him once or twice some time ago and he had VERY good information and advise! Another reason he should come back is because we seriously lack technical knowledge on this forum!!! Most of the advise given usually comes through a long grapevine and speculation.....




Audi A3 1.8T
ex "BroSpeed" RXi

Guy's I agree that Stuart be allowed on the forum as a true Audi nut, but not knowing the full story is not willing to lambast Andre and the present committee on their decisions.
I caused a bit of a stir with 18 (not being an Audi fan) posting all his views on BM on this forum, but feel that as an Audi forum maybe Andre and the guy,s should have a re-think on Stuart and lets move forward.
In all clubs there will be different views and we will not always see eye to eye on all matters but would not like to see this club going to ground due to inside bickering, hell guy's I'll even see 18 posting his crap if it would keep all happy and be to the benefit of the club and it's members.
I have to agree with Andre though and cannot really expect my views to be adhered to as I have never been to an AGM and due to that failure should not use this forum to air my views on club policies etc. That opportunity will take place at the next AGM, should we all turn up there.
Let's just enjoy our club and stop clouting each other

Agreed. OK moving along now.
What the hell is under that hood!!!!!!!!

Jees, I've never seen more inlets in my life?
Let us know what that thing is packing, if you get the nod back in.

Let sleeping dogs lie, and keeps your revs up high. (cheesy)

T3
--
m not religious, but I do believe in Audi.

I think it is a particularly bad idea to try and figure out who was "right" and who was "wrong" at the time of the unhappy incident of Stuart's banning from the club and the forum. This will just stir up old emotions and not produce any beneficial results.

For those who may still feel strongly that Stuart did misbehave at the time, I say that he has more than paid his "debt to society" by now.

Let bygones be bygones and let's welcome Stuart back - he is obviously an Audi nut.

Allow Stuart back. Stuart made a major effort to get club participation going in the Garden Route area around two years back. It was through Stuart that I became aware of the club when I bought my first S3. I keep hearing about poor participation at various orginised club events-I wonder why. Today club participation in the Garden Route is dead! A lot of hard grapht has been undone. I think that in 2005 the club should make every effort to become nationally more representitive. Guys like Stuart should be seen as an asset and not a liability in this regard.

Let Stuart back in. I appreciated his input on the forum and have to admit that the board did lose some of its sparkle when he was denied posting rights.

I agree. The more enthusiasts we have on our forum the better. Stuart obviously has a lot of technical knowledge that I'm sure we all can benefit from. If this is a vote, I too vote him back.

When will Stuart be allowed to post again?

Audi A3 1.8T
ex "BroSpeed" RXi

When is Stuart going to be allowed back onto this board ?

Apparently, still not

This post has received quite a few replies from ppl who either met Stuart personally (including me) or others WHO only know him by name (posting on this site & chatting via telly).

I find it strange that we yet to SEE a responds from the relevant person(s) to whom this post is directed.

I support STRUART's readmittance to this site & would urge the committee & chairperson to allow him to post again.

Now every body will understand why I don’t come to Audi events

And the wheels go weeeeeee

Although 17 participants have indicated herewith their desire for Stuart Thompson to be allowed on the Forum, please note that this represents only 5.67% of the total membership of the club, this regardless of the fact that some of them are not members and other have never contributed financially to the club.....

Are 17 persons going to dictate what 300 persons will do ?

In any case, this is a matter which will have to be resolved by the new Chairman and the new Committe, whenever such are elected by the members.

More of the last paragraph next week.

André

Why does Stuart not contact the club committee and sort out his problems there. It is this type of postings that will ensure that people such as Andre, Gandalph and others withdraw from the club and forums.
The way that Stuart is using some "members" to state his case is typical the reason why he was banned in the first place.
I agree with Andre and the other comittee members, if anyone has a gripe pertaining to this type of situation handle it through the committee. I want to see if Jowack and his other buddies, of who most is not Audi fans anyway, considering their desire to drive bm'S WILL BE WILLING TO TAKE OVER THE WORK ANDRE AND HIS TEAM HAD PUT INTO THIS CLUB, I am not willing as I do not have the time and will from now on rather just enjoy all my Audi's myself and give my all to the Coupe and DKW clubs as we keep our fights to where it belongs, committee meetings when needed

Gandalf, why did you remove your post in reply to my last post?

TJ, Stuart did contact the club, but we did not follow up his request, as it was quite recently and most of us wanting to quit in January 2005, we did not see this as a matter of great importance.

In any case this post has prompted me and the other committee members to quit now instead of waiting for next year.... There is so much insult one can take, specially when the person who posted this thread and many of the replies came from people who were not part of the club nor this forum at the time of the "incident" with Stuart Thompson.

André

I have stayed out of this debate up until now because I really don't have any desire to resurrect and get involved with this whole issue again, and particularly not in the way it is being done now.

But TJ's post makes the point and I would just add to it: Indeed, why did Stuart not contact the Committee instead of getting others to speak for him? He applied for access to post to the forum recently, without any further explanation. Had he sent the above email to the committee members, this issue could have been addressed properly without starting another public dogfight.

Many people here don't even know the story of what happened way back then with Stuart's case. I was one of the committee members then and I was also one of the people who felt I was personally wronged by Stuart. Whatever the start of the whole affair, I think everyone who can remember it would agree that things just got way out of hand, with personal insults going back and forth between all the people involved. I think we have all since regretted much of it and the way it turned out.

Anyway, in the end the decisions that were made and put in effect, whether right or wrong from whoever's perspective, were made by the entire Committee consisting of about 7 FOUNDING, ACTIVE, PAID-UP AND DEDICATED club members at the time. Without these same people the club (and this forum) would never have existed. So how about giving these people the benefit of the doubt and some support too?

--------------------
2001 S3 & 1994 M3

Having been out the whole weekend and just "tuning" in now, I must admit to being completely un-surprised at what I've read this evening.

I say "un-surprised" because this is exactly what the Audi Club of South Africa has become lately..... a bickering set of people who have nothing better to do than hurl insults and insinuations at committee members and act like spoiled brats.
These are directed at the committee members who've given their up their own time (and put in way more effort than anyone realises) to give these same people a platform and club that is then used to publicly insult them ???
To make it worse, most of these people also NEVER attend events and half don't even bother to pay membership fees...

And people ask us why we're not interested any more ?

Frankly with what I've read recently on these very pages, I have to admit to being embarrassed to be associated with this club.

Anyway, as Andre said, this can now be somebody elses problem. Barring one more post to follow later this week, these will be my last words on this forum. I am very disappointed that we've reached levels this low.

Good luck



Ryan
2003 Audi TT 1.8T coupe
Glacier Blue
Fourways, JHB

Wine, wine, wine, bitch, bitch, bitch, moan, moan, moan....

For me the Audi club, relates mostly to the forums, I try to make it out to see the cape town okes when i can... but no pressure if I dont, the audi club is not my life... it is just part of it which i enjoy... As a source of technical infor the forums are probally second to none... After starting this post I dont really know where i am going witth it...

What i really want to say.. is it should be fun, to be part of the club... not like oh **** if I dont got to the breakfast i am gonna get bannerd of some ****.. and i dont know the stuart storiy.. My personal feel is that is some one is abusive or SPAMMING(global defintion of spam), then remove them.. else its really freedom of speech.


2 cents

Freedom of speach?

Right, but then it should be a two way street.

As an example, when TJ complained about I8 multiple posts about the E60 M5, the usual bunch came down on his as if he had committed a crime. Is that freedom of speach?

Nobody is obliged to attend club meeting, but then why should a bunch of enthusiasts spend hours trying to run a club members are not interested in participating and then get insulted publicly on the forum?

As for the Forum, I see it as the "voice" of the Audi club and it's members, but certianly not a place when controversy reigns and where some feel it's perfectly OK to insult and treat with disrespect other members and in aprticular Committee members and the Chairman?

Hey, who cares anyway? You guys won! I and the Committee have resigned. Now let see what you people can come up with.

André

TJ's comment "...of who most is not Audi fans anyway...", dude, think before you post!! Most of us are as much of an Audi nut as you and making statements such as these are insulting to other Audi lovers that you have never met!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most of the posts that I8 make are objective magazine reports on Audi vs BMW vs Mercedes and I find these very interesting. Most of us on the forum are open minded and like these kind of comparissons, even if it favours BMW. We can have our own opinions

Audi A3 1.8T
ex "BroSpeed" RXi

Guys. To me this seems to hover around old events that as Andre has stated, most of the peeps that responded werent even around when it happened. i believe this is because we were just trying to mend the past and move forward becasue at the heart of it, we are all enthusiasts. Never were our intentions to "gang up" . We just want to learn and share. Andre, in the short while that I've been on this forum, you have been a wealth of info, and I dont think there is one person who doesnt appreciate what you have done in the past, and what you could do in the future for the club. I really dont think this has much to do with whether members are fully payed up, or whether we've attended all the meetings. I think we all contribute in our own way, and thats not saying that meetings and events should stop. All Im saying is that we log onto the forum practically everyday, and respond when we can share the little we know. This is in the spirit of commradery. Lets not resign, but rather forget.

I have just read this thread for the third time, and I have not spotted personal insults aimed at members of the Club Committee.

I have also not seen ANYONE criticising the Committee for their general running of this Club, so generally I think one can assume that people are quite happy with the way you do the job that you have volunteered for.

All I can see here is people questioning (as they are entitled to do) ONE decision the Committee had made with regard to Stuart. Julian even admits that he is not particularly proud of the way this has turned out, so perhaps, with the benefit of hindsight, it was not a perfect decision after all.

I know and respect all of you personally, but honestly this time I think you are over-reacting in a damaging way.

Gerrit,

This thread was purposely posted by an individual to "challenge" the Committee at a time that was totally innapropriate. You, yourself conceded to this in your first post on this thread.

As for the insults, please refer to the post where TJ complains about I8's multiple posts about the E60 M5.

As you have been with this club and the forum for as long as I can remember (and one of the most active members I must add), you may recall that, even excluding the Stuart Thompson incident, my gripes about insults, and I am not talking about swear words, just sentences which eventually come to the same, are valid.

This forum represents the Audi Club and the Audi brand, therefore we cannot accept controvery and people striving on it, and mumerous post glorifying other brand. One, once in a while is perfectly OK, but continously: NO.
However, that is the opinion of the Committee, and since the participants to this Forum do not agree with our point of view, then this, plus other factors, made us decide to resign.

André

I have to agree with Gerrit here - the Club can be damaged by over-reaction.

Lets talk about the Stuart issue for a while. I think I said many times that mistakes were made on both sides (Stuart and the Committee at the time of which I was a member). I am not judging the severity of the mistakes here. The question one has to ask is "Is it fair that Stuart's case be revieved by Committee again at this time?" My personal opinion is that it should be reviewed - what happened was 18 months ago, at a stage where the Forum had no rules set up. As a Committee we learn from what happened and set rules for the forum that anybody coming to the forum for the first time have to agree to. As you know Julian and I suggested a while ago (at the Rodizio's dinner) that Stuart should be allowed back if he agreed to abide by the rules of the Forum. I still believe so.

This Club has come a long way from where it started in March 2002. Yes, meetings may not have been well attended but the Forum has become important to me and many other members. Maybe we need to find out what type of meetings the members would attend - taking into concideration that not all members would enjoy all activities - I strongly believe the Club can grow from strenght to strenght.

I echo TJ's sentiment - lets all work together to make the Club work! We all have enough frustrations in our daily lives, the Club needs to be a fun place where Audi enthusiasts can meet.

BTW - I posted a joke (or what I thought was one) on Saturday night - on Sunday morning I thought not everybody might see it as a joke and I deleted my post.

At the moment there is no Committee, hence it will be one of the first tasks of the new elected Committee to review Stuart's case.

I am out and so his the committee, hence we cannot make those decisions.

André

I agree fully with you on this GandalfS6. Let the members suggest what events they would like. I am the Chairman of Zoopedup.com and there were problems as well. But speak to your members and let them be a part of the club. We have grown 50% more members in a month than what we did in a whole year. And why because we speak to the members. We let them give the suggestions and make our dictions from there.

And the wheels go weeeeeee