Original turks were related to Mongols (unlike 80% of populations of todays Anatolia which are turmenized) and came from the region of todays Chinese province called Xinjiang (those Turkds there today are called Uigurs) or as Turks call it eastern Turkestan (which borders Mongolia) and its vicinity.

From there they spread in the direction of central Asia where they intermixed with Persians to a minor degree and from there they further expanded in the Afghanistan, Ural mountains and Siberia, eastern Europe, Iran, Anatolia, etc. Today among the racially purest Turks (when compared to other Turkic groups) are Uzbeks and Uigurs in W.China.

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Turkic Languages
http://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/13136.html

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Turkic history
http://gencturkler2.8m.com/WHO/who.html
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Exchanges between East Asians and Central Asians in China (Writen by a Turk).

http://www.colorq.org/MeltingPot/Asia/ChineseTurks.htm

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About how wisepread the Turkic languages are

http://www1.peoples.org.ru/eng_tjurk.html

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The Uighur language is a Turkish (or Turkic) dialect spoken by over 10 million Uighur people in Central Asia including 9 million in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region of China (also known as Eastern Turkestan). The Uighur and Uzbek (another Turkish dialect spoken by the people of Uzbekstan) languages are extremely close. As matter of fact, a lot of linguists still argue about whether or not these two dialects are different at all. So, if you speak Uzbek, you don't have to learn Uighur, you are an Uighur speaker as well.

http://www.uighurlanguage.com/

Picture's of (centralasian) Uzbeks (REAL Mongoloid Turks with Persian admixture.Note: The ones who appear more Mongoloid are more Turkic))

Vast majority (80%) of Anatolian Turks are arent of Turkic origin but rather turmenized Byzantines or Iranians and to a lesser degree Armenians, Georgians etc.

Majority of Anatolian Turks are Greeks racially

According to racial anthropology roughly half of today's Turkish population is in reality turmenized Byzantines or Greeks (35% in form of Dinaricized Mediterraneans and 20% in the form of East Mediterranean's). Racialy pure Turks are noneexistant but rather mixed Greek-Persian-Turkics are around 20% in central Anatolia (Konya region). Turks of Greek ancestry number around 30 million (or staggering three time the number of Greeks in Greece).

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More on the subject read my post "Most of today's Turkish-Cypriots are of Greek origin" !

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=200436&messageid=1022912334&lp=1028495253

Let my blood be Greek, Armenian, Georgian, Bulgarian, etc...

These things do not trouble or haunt me at all, in fact it shows how diverse and lucky i am on this world to have such colorful blood.

Overall, what matters is what i call myself not what blood i have. I am a Turk from the great nation of the Turkish Republic. I was born in Istanbul, which is a Turkish city, which makes me Turkish legally.

I call myself Turk for my own pleasure and for my love to my beautiful and honorable nation. I don't care about blood, color, race, or anything physical.

I am proud to be a Turk, and that is what counts for me.

((((The ones who appear more Mongoloid are more Turkic))



Zaetamen you maybe correct at some points, but our ancestors are not pure mongoloid as you described. if you read our ancient writings Oghuzhan was describes as" white skinned , hairy individual, One of his wive's eyes were described as blue as sky.we have a lot of fair skinned uyghurs , white uyghurs resemble europians than iranians(so Turks have cocasion traits long before turks reach anotolia) I also asked yalpa before why do not you give us detailed information about your study. In order to prove your study valid , your study should not have biases. Please give us the detail. fact sounds better than claims. chinese claimed 55% of uyghurs are cocasion origin(in fact it is higher) by this you can not claim these uyghurs are also greek origin( I mean you can not call not all fair skinned turks of Greek origin.

altho uighurs look caucasoid to some degree, the turkomans who are smack next to iranians dont and as we know pretty darn close to modern turkey and europe(as far away from mongolia as it can), uyghurs probably are of mixed genetics.

who cares?

who cares if the original turks were mongols or fins or hungarians or sumerians or arabs or chinese or whatever.

a turk is a turk just like an arab is an arab just like a hispanic-american is a hispanic-american or latino.

Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakstan, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan all recognize themsleves as Turkic countries. Turkish or Turkic, doesn't matter..same thing.

Uygurs, South Azerbaijanis, Qashqayis, South Turkmens, Khalaj and other groups also call themseleves Turks and their language Turki. So we all come from a common strain and a common backgound just like Arabs from Morrocco to Khuzestan to Yemen to Lebanon.

a Turk is a Turk.

Yashasin Azerbaijan ve Turk dunyasi.

__________________

TURK/TURKISH/TURKIC= OF THE TURKISH RACE.

Azerbaijan= BUTOV AZERBAIJAN.

you are right! I agree with you.

actually this is important, if you are real uyghur you should know that uyghurs are very influenced by chinese and mongols, and turks are more influenced by arabs and europeans, as they say location location location.

also azeris and turkomans are very close ethnics, azeris like turkish descendent from oghuz and seljuks who are turkoman tribes. so it seems that its very premature for turkey to unite with turkistan when they don't even get along with people who have shared language, culture and ancestry within 500 years much less more than 1000 years

Our culture is Central asian Turkish culture

Bisserk, we may influenced some , But we influenced them a lot, they learned how to play music, and how to fight (they call it hufucishe).

but still not much . since they came to Turkistan just 100 years ago. that's the reason we almost does not have same culture with chinese.If you see Uyghur in Turkistan you will realize we our tatally different people with different culture. as for as mongols we influences them a lot.

It is unfortunate manchues become chinese, without manchues chinese would not occupy my homeland.

you are very wrong uyghurs have been part of china for at least 300 years under manchus who were turkics as well, the manchus were influenced immensely by chinese, and manchus being turkics also and conquered turkistan the chinese influence is greater in this regard i am saying uyghurs are chinese just saying that turks are not all identical 100%, in uyghur culture for example there is less arabic culture, you should know this if you are real uyghur

bisserk,

to me, there is no difference whether a man or woman looks mongoloid, caucasoid, or negroid. we are all the same. i'm from azerbaijan and i have been told many times that i look part east Asian and i have friends and family from azerbaijan that look like german people..so it's not a big deal.

however, the turkmens do not all look Mongoloid. here are some pictures of turkmens (especially at the bottom of the page) look at the faces of turkmens, some of them look very typical european and most of them do not look like mongoloid peoples while some do:

http://www.turkmens.com/Art.html

the same goes for Uygurs. not all of them look Mongoloid and like Uyghur said, more than 55% of them are Caucasoid in appearance and consider themseleves apart from the Mongoloid race and more Europoid (at least that's what i've read)

here are Uygurs:



my theory as to why some eastern Turks look Mongoloid is pretty self-explanatory. the regions of xiang and eastern turkistan as well as central Asia have been under the influence of Mongoloid looking peoples such as the Mongols and Chinese. many areas have been subjugated by these people and they have mixed with the local population, thus the mongoloid gene is common in the people of that region.
i know for a fact that Uzbekistanis and Kazakstanis consider Mongols their partial descendants. the name "Uzbek" is a name of a Mongol.

however what turks from istanbul, tebriz, baku, urumqi, almaty, bishkesk, samarqand and all over have in common is that they call themseleves TURKS. so they are all Turkish. some Mongols might have mixed with eastern Turks and some Arabs might have mixed with western Turks but that does not make them less Turkish. more or less, all Turks look the same and speak a similar language.

Yashasin Turk Dunyasi



__________________

TURK/TURKISH/TURKIC= OF THE TURKISH RACE.

Azerbaijan= BUTOV AZERBAIJAN

turkmens were under russian influence, and so did kazakhstan and uzebkistan...a turkmen, kazak and uzbek is definitively not russian looking, you idiot azeris and turkmens look totally different. majority of turkmen that look caucasian are part russian or full russian anyways. only uyghurs look caucasoid without foreign influence. turk is a mongolian word anyways , racially pure turks are not caucasians. saying typical turkmen is caucasian , black whatever is dumb

bisserk,

first of all your dad is an IDIOT for having u. u dumb kurdish faggot. secondly, how is a "turk" a Mongol word?! are u that stupid? ur.

There are several different interpretations of the word Turk. Some say it comes from Turan (Tur-k= of Turan) some say the Chinese used it and it meant "strong"

How can it be a Mongol word? show me 1 historical source.

Russian influence? Russian influence in central Asian Turkish countries was colonial. there was no "russian migration" to uzbekistan, turkmenistan, kyrgyzstan etc..

the northern part of kazakstan the people are pure russian. there are lots of russians who live in kazakstan they are native to the area but the russians did not mix with the uzbeks, turkmens, kazaks (non-russians of kazakstan) and kyrgyz. u have to read history before u come and type stuff. by the way u write, i can tell ur a stupid person and ur family is probably stupid too. ur not a turk ur a kurd..i know lots of stupid kurds like u.

ps. your mom has a nice ass

sikdir.

Yashasin Turk dunyasi
__________________

TURK/TURKISH/TURKIC= OF THE TURKISH RACE.

Azerbaijan= BUTOV AZERBAIJAN.

turk is not chinese, it isnt not russian, it is an actual word in the mongol vocabulary turk is plural form for turkut in mongolian. this is where turkomans got their name from and their only connection with ghenghis khan is not thru ghenghis khan but thru his grand son timurlane. ghenghis khan was not a turk he killed many turkomans. russian's mixed with central asians on grand scale, russians even mixed with azeris, but we know when we say typical kazak, uzbek or turkman its not azeri looking.

and just so we are clear, i wasnt saying anything about azeris or your butt ugly mother so calm down all i am saying is uyghurs have more contact with chinese than turks, uyghurs look a lil caucasian but that doesnt mean they are original turks, most turks in central asian soviet republics for example dont look like uyghurs, turkomans being with most contact with non turks for centuries still conserved their racial integrity. so this this tells you that turks were not uyghurs. uyghurs have never had any recorded historical contact with caucasoid races. turkomans well look at modern turkey and the othoman empire. so there is discrepancies that needs to be ironed out

Zetaman,

it is true that old Turks were cousins of Mongols,but both Turks and Mongols lived closely.We have to differentiate one thing:

Turks at that tıme outnumbered mongol tribes and language was mainly Turkic.I do not agree with the idea that we Turks of Turkey are not Turks.Turks as being one of the most mobile tribes were in Anatolia.Why when a Turk mixes with another ethnic group looses his ethnic identity and howcome the one with whom a Turk mixes does not!this trick is well played by some without any logical explanation.Turkish honour 80 explained the rest well as well as Uighur friend.

rgds

Timurlenk

Greetings Kindred Turks

I have read a few of the last postings and some were informative and truthful, and a few were blatantly bordering on disinformation i.e. "30 million Turks are Greeks" and "Turkish Cypriots are Greek".

I wont get into heavy discussions now but would like everyone here to take a moment and visit a highly informative and postive Turk-world site, which I know a great many will enjoy and recommend.

The Worlds Most Popular Independent
English Language Turk Magazine..
Turcoman Int' Magazine
http://www.turcoman.btinternet.co.uk

i don't agree with u bisserk.

with your theory, that means that the original Turks and the "Turkish race" was a Mongoloid race from the beginning. if u read history, u will see that the original turks started out in the area of tien shan mountains and lake baikal in mongolia and they were iron workers for another tribe that had opressed them (forgot the name). there is no archeological evidence or historical evidence that will PROVE that the original Turks were a Mongoloid race..although they might have and there is no problem if that's the case.

however in many written text by the old chinese and other reffering to turks, u hear "tatars with golden locks and blue eyes" and texts reffering to turks as caucasoid peoples. the uygurs, who claim to be one of the purest of Turkish peoples, consider themseleves caucasoid.

explain the root of turks to me and show me links. because if u claim that the Oghuz Turks were Mongoloid looking peoples, then the Turks of Turkey and Azerbaijan are not Turks because they look Caucasoid.

Explain..


__________________

TURK/TURKISH/TURKIC= OF THE TURKISH RACE.

Azerbaijan= BUTOV AZERBAIJAN.

many uzbeks dont look uzbek, why explain ...its pretty obvious

lol

now ur making me confused. what would "uzbek" mean if an uzbek doesn't look uzbek? and uzbek speaks turkish and an uzbek probably has mongol blood. many look caucasoid many look mongoloid or a mixture.

u didn't answer my question.

regards.
__________________

TURK/TURKISH/TURKIC= OF THE TURKISH RACE.

Azerbaijan= BUTOV AZERBAIJAN.

why get cut up with this race thing

the aryan dont own the white ethnc group the mongols and chinese dont own e asian ehtnic group
look at it this way indo-european is cultural-linguistic group not a racial group it wasnt aryans who brought white people to europe there were already people there who were obviously white but certainly never spoke aryan(european)language likewise there may be turks of mongoloid appearance but this is obvious since people of east asia have this ethnic appearance
people here have to get over this race thing which a european disease, and realise ethnicity is fluid and no one culture or language owns an ethnic group

a turk is a turk no matter their ethnic group so long as their origin is of turkic language and culture then they are turk origin even if they no longer speak turkish or live turkic culture they are still of turkic origin race doesnt come in to it


BIR KISHI BIR ULUS

Turcoman

Thank for your website. As a Greek it is good to know that this crazy nation of murder covering up Turks is dumb enough to make your Pan-Turanist propaganda site get over 320,000 hits.

P.S. Pan-Turanism is invented by the British. Put this info into anti-Turk cabinet.

__________________



Cikmak yok. CIK MAK YOK. BIZ BIZ.


Uzak uzak biz. BIZ. BIIIIZ.

New articles will be going up on the Turcoman Int' web
magazine shortly. A set of 28 images on the theme of
Turks, have been uploaded to the sister publication
Turcoman Newsletter (you have to subscribe. Free.
Address below).

The images include Cuman Turks, Karakalpaks, Khazars,
Mehteran, cover of Turcoman Magazine (printed version), and shots from the celebrations in London by Turks, following the 2002 world cup.

--------------------------------------------
For a Symphony of Voices from the Turk World
--------------------------------------------
Turcoman Internet Magazine
http://www.turcoman.btinternet.co.uk
--------------------------------------------
Turcoman Magazine Newsletter
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TurcomanMagazine
---------------------------------------------
TurcomanNewsletter Members CHAT
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TurcomanMagazine/chat
---------------------------------------------

Responding to Stelios

320,000 hits on the Turcoman Int' web magazine is a drop in the ocean, there are 260 million Turks world-wide. 'Every jeorney begins with the first step'.

Turcoman

Oh! Race of Turks!
Children of Iron and Fire!
Founders of a Thousand Homelands!
Wearers of a Thousand Crowns!

Well since you go by language groups there are over 600 million Latin speakers. Watch out the Latins are coming for you!

__________________


Cikmak yok. CIK MAK YOK. BIZ BIZ.


Uzak uzak biz. BIZ. BIIIIZ.

There seem to exist notion among some Turks (especially I am refering to Anatolian 'Turks' or Turkemanzed Anatolians to be acurate) that their Turkic ancestors were more caucasian that oriental (mongoliod) looking and the reason why majority of Turkics today who are more Turkic (example being Uigurs, Uzbeks) look primarily Mongoliod is because they were mixed with Mongols. I can understand
why Anatolian Turks choose to believe this since it is clear even to them that they dont look like a majority of other Turkics.

(Also note that just because some writers ,say chinese ones, noted that some Turkic individuals were appearing caucasian by having some of the caucasian traits such as light hair and eyes doesnt mean that the same individuals didnt have slented eyes, high cheekbones, flattened face which is Mongoloid. Also to Chinese, pure and unmixed orientals, even Mongols looked mixed while to Europeans Turkics and Mongols were mainly Oriental).

Russians did not mix (perhaps only to a minor extent) with central-Asian Turkics (they didn't even have enough time to do so and if that was the case ethic Russian enclaves within some of the central Asiatic Turcic republics would not exist today) and are not the reason why some appear Caucasian (such as some Turkomens for example). The reason why (some Turkomens lets say) appear Caucasian (or precisely primarily of Iranian/Dinaric race which is almost nonexistent in Russia which is a mixture of mainly Nordic Baltic race and mainly Mongoloid looking Lagodan racial type which can be associated with Lapps and original Finns) is because they are mixed with Iranian race and central Asia was an Iranian territory (mainly iranian remnants of that would be Tajiks) until the coming of Turkics who were mainly Mongoloid looking people.

Lets analyze who were the original Turkics trough the impartial eyes of racial anthropology by analyzing the Coon's book'Races of Europe' (bible on racial anthopology in a way) or rather its section regarding Turkics and Mongols!

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/chapter-VII2.htm


" From the time that the Irano-Aryan ancestors had arrived in Russian Turkestan in anticipation of their descent into the hills of northwestern India, much of this grassy plain had been the home of those Iranians who remained behind while their kinsmen climbed the mountains which would take them into India and the Irano-Afghan plateau."

Telling us that Iranians inhabited central Asia! This would also explain why some Turkics appear light haired and light eyed since in the proximity in central Asia lived Iranians among whom northern Iranian branch Scythians and Sarmatians were known as light haired and light eyed and inhabited region from northern Balkans, Ukraine (known then as Scythia), most of Caucussus (especially ist nortehn reaches) and also central asia (where branch of Scythians were known to have settled). Fact that some Turkic individuals had light eyes and light hair just means that they were partly mixed with those Iranians not that Turkics were not mongoloid.


" To the northwest of the vast Iranian domain, in Mongolia, a number of semi-agricultural, semi-pastoral tribes, possessing the sheep, probably also cattle, and perhaps wagons, but apparently not the horse, came in early times to the attention of the Chinese historians. "

To we have some tribes originating IN MONGOLIA. (wonder which ones are those )

" By 800 B.C. we hear of a people called the Hiung-Nu, who gradually grew in importance until they came to dominate all of Mongolia.8 At a fairly late date, set by McGovern between 541 and 300 B.C., the Hiung-Nu presumably obtained horses, and learned to ride them. "

Still wondering who are those people.

" They seem to have acquired these animals from the Iranians or from Turkish-speaking peoples, along with the whole complex of horse nomadism. Chinese accounts of the Hiung-Nu later than the third century B.C. refer to them as typical plainsmen, strikingly similar in many cultural respects to the Scythians. "

Here we have first mention of "Turkish-speaking peoples" and that so far the unknown people are culturally similar to Iranian Schytians. I guess that would explain why some appear mixed with Schytians.

" The six centuries, more or less, from 400 B.C. to 200 A.D., formed the period of greatness of the Hiung-Nu in Mongolia, during which they constantly harried China, and took possession of Chinese Turkestan. Despite their conquest, however, Iranian languages, and the mysterious Tokharian B, persisted in the towns until 800 A.D. or later. At length the Chinese took measures to rid themselves of this nuisance, and succeeded in defeating the Hiung-Nu so completely that they abandoned their territory and disappeared to the westward. "

Tokharians (indo-europeans who appear racially and linquistically most similar to ancient Celtics) were another light haired and light eyed nation that enhibited todays eastern Turkestan (Todays chinese province of Singkiang ). These people could be another (and only other) possible source why some of the Turkic individuals had light hair and light eyes.


" The last mention of the Hiung-Nu in Chinese sources is about 170 AL. and, exactly two hundred years later, the Huns appeared on the banks of the Don in Russia. McGovern has presented a convincing argument to prove that the two were the same people; that their passage across Asia took them across a space sterile of historians, between the spheres of Chinese and of Byzantine chroniclers. Only one glow of light appears in this interim; in 290 A.D. Tigranes the Great of Armenia hired some such people as mercenaries. "

Here we see shifting of interest of the Turkics from regions east and south of Mongolia (China) to the regions west of Mongolia (Turkic Huns in Russia).

" The history of the Huns in Europe does not require elaborate treatment. Having defeated the Ostrogoths and sent them and their kinsmen scurrying westward, the Huns moved to the present Hungary, which they made their headquarters. From here they sent expeditions to Rome, to Germany, and to France, where Attila was defeated in the battle of the Catalonian fields in 451 A.D. After his death two years later, the Runs retired to eastern Europe, and many of them united with their relatives the Bolgars, who had settled between the Ugrian and Finnic tribes of the middle Volga and Kama rivers, where, under Bolgar leadership, a great state arose, which flowered between the eighth and fourteenth centuries. "

Original Bulgars were also (mainly mongoloid) Turkics( or rather turkiczed Finns)!

" In the meantime, the Huns in central Asia raided Mesopotamia, Persia, Afghanistan, and India; presumably the Turkish penetration of central Siberia dates likewise from the period between 200 and 400 A.D. This span of two centuries marks the beginning of the great expansion of Turkish-speaking peoples, for the Huns, and their allies and relatives, must have spoken various forms of speech related to Turkish, many of which are now extinct. "

Thus we have Turkics in central Siberia by 200-400 AD.

Now lets shift to the racial acpect of Turkics!

" That the Huns came in great numbers cannot be questioned, and that they introduced a completely alien racial type onto European soil is vividly attested by the accounts of numerous contemporary historians, among whom may be mentioned Jordanes, Sidonus, Appolinaris, and Priscus. These authors unanimously describe the Huns as being short, broad shouldered, thick-set, swarthy, flat-nosed, slit-eyed, nearly beardless, and bandy-legged. The Avars are described by some authors as being identical with the Huns, but by others as being less horrible of aspect. According to that Byzantine wit, Jordanes, the Avars defeated the Iranian-speaking Alans, who were the descendants of the Sarmatians, by frightening them with their faces and not by valor. "

Thus Turkics were ORIENTAL!

" The careful studies of Bartucz, on whose work this following part is almost entirely based, has disclosed, in unquestioned manner, the exact racial composition of these invaders.9 (See Appendix I, col. 51.) Many of the Hunnish and Avar cemeteries are very extensive, containing, in all, thousands of skulls. In many of these cemeteries, particularly in that of Mosonszentjános, purely mongoloid skeletons have been found, unaccom-panied by European followers or European mixture. "

The european mixture are more likely to have been Goths or Sarmatian Alans that were accomponying Huns while the oriental ones are Turkic!

" Bartucz finds two clearly differentiated mongoloid types in these cemeteries. "

" Thanks to the industrious researches of the modern Russian school of physical anthropology, it is not difficult to discover the Asiatic relationships of these two types. Type A is found today among the living Tungus,10 and it has likewise a long history in Siberia, for it is found among many Siberian peoples, including Palaeasiatics, and it is characteristic of many of the Neolithic skulls excavated in the neighborhood of Lake Baikal.11 Type B belongs to the Mongol-speaking peoples, and is found in especial purity among the Buryats, who represent, culturally and probably racially, the Mongols before the time of their expansion. Modern Buryat skulls are among the largest in capacity known. "

TURKICS = MONGOLOIDS

" A further light upon the physical characteristics of the Huns is shown by a study of Hunnish head hair, from graves of this period. A sample of it is very fine, straight, and jet black.13 In color and in form, this hair was classically mongoloid, but this fineness casts some doubt upon the generalization that all mongoloid hair must be coarse, especially since it has been shown that American Indian hair is very variable in this respect. "

TURKICS = MONGOLOIDS

" The incontrovertible evidence of the Hungarian graves completely dispels the theory that the Huns may have been largely European in racial type. If the Hiung-Nu were ancestors of the Nuns, then the early inhabitants of Mongolia were definitely mongoloid, and belonged to the two important racial elements present there today, the Tungus and the Mongol proper. This throws the prehistory of central Asia into a clear and logical light. It is exactly what one would expect. "

TURKICS = MONGOLOIDS

" McGovern has discovered a number of Chinese references to the Hiung-Nu and other Turkish-speaking "barbarians" which describe them as hairy, big-nosed, and partially blond. In later times, Genghis Khan was supposed to be red-haired and green-eyed. It is therefore likely that some of the Asiatic Nordic element found in the Jutas and Tiszadersz cemeteries was incorporated by the Avars before they left Mongolia, but, on the basis of the evidence from purely mongoloid cemeteries like Mosonszentjános, it is unlikely that this influence could have penetrated the entire Hunnish and Avar nations. "

To Chinese anybody even remotely mixed with Caucasians as Turkics were to some extent will appear light haired and light eyed just like to Bantu tribes of Africa in Kenya Ethiopians appear lightskinned since they are LIGHTER than THEM.

TURKICS = MONGOLOIDS

" The Magyars were Ugrians from the region between the Volga and the Urals, who had been partially Turkicized by the Petchenegs and others, but had retained their Finno-Ugrian language, albeit strongly shot with Turkish. In this respect, they resembled the ancestral Bulgarians, semi-Turkicized Finns, who had, a few decades earlier, crossed the lower Danube and settled Bulgaria, implanting themselves on a population of Slavs who had themselves been but a short while in occupancy. In Bulgaria, the Slavic language seeped through and replaced the Finnish; in Hungary, the Ugrian became dominant and the Slavic speech to a large extent disappeared. Nevertheless, Slavic culture blended with the Ugrian and Turkish, to produce modern Hungarian forms. "

I figure it would be interesting although unrelated to original Turkics!


One more time!


TURKICS = MONGOLOIDS

Most of the Ottoman sultans possessed distinctly Mongoloid features.

Do you think if the Greek government put sheep on the uninhabitated Greek islands and wrote "Yunan" on them, the sheep would come back Turkicized if you check up on them after two years?

Take a look at that picture. If that is what the Huns used to look like, the Europeans who saw them must have thought a UFO had landed.

My dear anthropogist friends we are all here to discuss some new info about Turkish Nations that is found by our new hyper informatic proffesor Herr Zetaman.
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Original Turkics = cousins of Mongols !!!
August 10 2002 at 5:11 PM
No score for this post Zetaman
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Original Turks were related to Mongols (unlike 80% of populations of todays Anatolia which are turmenized) and came from the region of todays Chinese province called Xinjiang (those Turkds there today are called Uigurs) or as Turks call it eastern Turkestan (which borders Mongolia) and its vicinity.

From there they spread in the direction of central Asia where they intermixed with Persians to a minor degree and from there they further expanded in the Afghanistan, Ural mountains and Siberia, eastern Europe, Iran, Anatolia, etc. Today among the racially purest Turks (when compared to other Turkic groups) are Uzbeks and Uigurs in W.China.

Turkic Languages
http://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/13136.html

Turkic history
http://gencturkler2.8m.com/WHO/who.html

Exchanges between East Asians and Central Asians in China (Writen by a Turk). (WHAT A TURK!!!!)
http://www.colorq.org/MeltingPot/Asia/ChineseTurks.htm

About how wisepread the Turkic languages are
http://www1.peoples.org.ru/eng_tjurk.htm

The Uighur language is a Turkish (or Turkic) dialect spoken by over 10 million Uighur people in Central Asia including 9 million in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region of China (also known as Eastern Turkestan). The Uighur and Uzbek (another Turkish dialect spoken by the people of Uzbekstan) languages are extremely close. As matter of fact, a lot of linguists still argue about whether or not these two dialects are different at all. So, if you speak Uzbek, you don't have to learn Uighur, you are an Uighur speaker as well.

http://www.uighurlanguage.com/

Picture's of (centralasian) Uzbeks (REAL Mongoloid Turks with Persian admixture.Note: The ones who appear more Mongoloid are more Turkic))
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As you can see, Herr Zetaman, thinks he discovered a new thing for us, ho ho ho ho Does Zetaman know anything about Turkish Languages/Their DNA or anything about the history.Absolutely not.
Let's try to understand these days conditions.
1.China (even in these days there was a large population and trying to destroy their barbar!!! enemies.
2.There(Central Asia) was not enough food for the whole nations (World was getting warmer even today it continues and todays technologies just increased it not started warming just increased)
3.İf you're fighting against a high populated enemy the only thing you can do is hit/escape and chance your place as fast as possible or get allies otherwise if you stay you must accept their culture and think yourself as a Chinese(today English globalisation is something updated)You loose your language/culture/religion====Flag.
Some of us tried to stay but enemy using his high population destroyed em all (If you stay in a castle.
For example Modun's (Mete) son tried but failed.
We started to escape in small numbers first ones were the reconnecense ones and started to detect the places they want. cause here was enough water land and people were not attacking like China they could easly escape and defend themselves
If you want An Example Akhuns (Ak=Batı,Beyaz Hunlar) Atilla,Bleda,Rua.....And noone can deny their effect over the Whole Roman Empire.You can say they were barbarians but which kind of barbarian can destroy the most powerful and thecnologically advanced army of the world.And how can their sons live in Hungaria now?till 353 God must give them something different absolutely not this was the will to live.What was the Germans doing at that time ??Barbarians!!!!huh
And he tells us our phsically appearence well god damned just read Chinese notes of these days We are Brakicephal headed never had eyes like chinese just as today (alittle different from eropeans)We are all white skinned some of us had red/blonde/black (not like indians) hairs I do not write Chinese Wrote before your Rome was there (ha by the way what does Alp Dağları (alpines) mean for you And why Romulus Bros Are drinking milk under a wolf and neither of your contries does still not have an icon of wolf and why can not you still read the ancient writings of your glorius roman empires builders , Etruscians (Etrüskler)What the hell about the White Pyramid of the China Why are they still hiding it and not opening it to tourist visits they can have much more money from it as you can see I'll send you 2 photos one taken from an American Spy Plane,And one taken by two German tourist (they hardly get it to their country,restricted area)
You always told me about asian eyes listen to me racist dog do you know anything objectively about mongols what the hell about their attack on over europe and fights against them
and about the attacks of symre or else İzmir What about rapes in these days khazaks were known as attractive womans place ******* what about warcrimes(killed boys) Germans lost their pure nation in these days I can still see Germans who has asian eyes but these are blue can not they mix some of them even had os zygomaticum that looks like mongolians ******* there is not a pure nation.Some saved themselves by escaping some could not.You tell pure turks where near china they are the ones who could not escape what the hell happened in the ottoman empire you think where are the Balkan Turks now from 1353 we started live thrace and balkans ******* what the hell are they now killed by you or killed by you or lost their culture or else you racist dog the problem of the world is not turks is not greks is not romans is not else is racist dogs like you I ve always thought Amercians killed fachist dogs like you in 1945 but as I can see they could not.You told about sincan.Do you know what the hell happens there who is fasist.Let me tell not all but some of CHINESE like you damned Nazi.

So, finnaly: WHAT THE hell are you?
My theory is that u are all from "outerspace"

I am a South Asian Muslim who grew up in the US after high school. So fortunately or unfortunately I have no claim to white, turkish or mongol pride. For business, I spent some time in Korea and can speak Korean. My wife happens to be a Korean.

I have read all the posts, from some of which it seemed that some of the writers were agitated.

My introduction to the turko mongol world did not happen through books, it happened as I practically spent a large part of my adult life doing business and living with Koreans.

I have watched Korean historical dramas and studied Korean history. I had quite a few Korean girl friends. As you can tell, I loved something about the Korean race, specially the girls.

I think Koreans are a mixed race of Jurchen, Chinese and South Pacific Islanders. But they do retain strong Tungusic identity, specially the Yangban or ruling class that came down from present day Manchuria.

As I kept studying their history, it took me to Manchu, Jurchen, Mongol, Hsiung Nu and eventually to Turkish history.

I can idependently verify that Zetaman has undoubtedly assembled the most material on this subject and I have seen all the material he mentioned on the internet through web search. Of course these are people's theory that may or may not be correct, but all the same, I have seen them myself on the internet, now the greatest library on earth.

I study the human race as people study apes and their behaviours. Mostly I feel that the different subspecies of humanity still are evolving socio-culturally at different paces, which are fascinating to watch. The message I have is a little complex. The main points are as follows:

- people evolve due to environment, such as living in agricultural, pastoral or industrial economies and of course the current information age
- some people evolve quicker than others and but the main body of people in most communities evolve slowly
- people at lower evolutionary levels are more irrational and are prone to conflict, due to lack of skills for compromise and conflict resolution

The above may seem like simple sentences, but they are the heart of my own radical theories that can explain all of past human history and predict the future with uncanny accuracy.

Using the above and some other aspects of the same theory, I have made the following observations:

- the so called white christian european race that defeated the Islamic civilization and took over the world and made it its colony is now facing a threat of supremacy from not one but three sources:

1 billion + Hindu in India, 1.3 billion + Chinese in China and elsewhere and 1.4 billion + Muslims in 54 countries

- many Turk Muslim brothers at this site, who have weakness towards the Nordic race and white caucasian pride, this kind of racial superiority theory is simply the result of last 300-400 years of brain-washing and propaganda of that race, meaning the Reconquista that started with the Battle cry of Santiago Mata Moros (Saint John, the Moor/muslim slayer)

There can be no reason for pride in blue eyes and white skin, or yellow skin or slanted eyes. There can be pride in great minds and great deeds and great scientific discoveries.

There can be no pride for a people, who have stolen other peoples land and country in Australia, New Zealand, and the North and South American continent. History will not be kind to the wholesale slaughters that took place in these lands, just as history will remember the deeds of Chingis Khan and Timur the Lame and finally the Armenian Genocide by Enver Pasha.

But the same people that devastated at a time past have built great edifices, such as the Pax Mongolica, the Osmanli empire and the European Renaissance that started at the Muslim universities of Cordoba, a result of which is todays land of immigrants, the US. The US is a model for the future of the world, where people of different races will live and work together and share dreams, all except the white christian part of course, which is now a dominant theme in the present day US. This model, I believe is the single most valuable contribution in world History for the US, a feat of bringing people together, which was done before under the Islamic religion, but the US does it as a so called secular entity.

Violence was a part of all of our past, it is a common theme, because at that evolutionary stage it was a tool for conflict resolution, to wipe out others to ensure survival of ones own kind.

In the far distant future the world will become more like the US, a polygot of all nations under one supreme government, but that is probably at least 500-1000 years away.

The reason is the slow pace of socio cultural evolution of human beings. Before becoming one great human nation, these slow moving minds will create the 4 largest superblocks, as they keep evolving:

- the European Christian and the Meso/South American Latin world
- the Chinese
- the Indian Hindu
- the Muslim

The US may officially remain neutral, but its 70-50% white popluation and large meso-american christian population will pull it towards the European Christian Block. Japan and S. Korea will remain neutral aligning themselves more with the US.

Turkey's entry into EC, will cause it to have a dual loyalty. The EC entry is for economic benefit but its heart will remain with the Muslim super-block.

Since this is the future, my advice to my Turk Muslim brothers and for that matter to all other Muslim brothers of the OIC and other places, who constitute a 1.4 billion strong population is to unite under a banner of humane and tolerant Islam, as a common cultural heritage. Unity is for self interest, self protection and self development and in no way can be a threat to the other three who are currently busy doing their own unification (EC, Chinese design on Taiwan and ASEAN, SAARC for India)

A developed, united and more civilized muslim block, together with help from other super-blocks can take care of:

- its own internal cancers like terrorism of the Osama variant that has become a shame and a slap in the face of 1400 years of Islamic civilization
- negotiate a compromise with relevant dominant entities to save indigenous populations of:
* East Turkestan
* Muslim turks in Russian federation (Ajerbaijan, Nogorno Karabakh, Ingus, Ossesia, Chechnya)
* Yakut, Buryat and other marginalized mongol/tungusic tribes in Russian federation
* Tibet
* Inner Mongolia
* Hui Muslims of China
* Muslims of South Thailand and Philippines
* Hill tribes of Bangladesh and India
all of whom needs more autonomy and more protection from cultural genocide
- Indian agression on Kashmir and Choking of all 16 downstream rivers into Bangladesh
- developing centers of learning in Malaysia, Indonesia and Bangladesh, which have the population and potential to become the cultural leaders of the next Islamic Renaissance
- create cultural and economic ties through common market, between Central Asia, North Africa, Arab peninsula, South Asia and the Muslim Pacific Islands

Someone will take up the cause and do these, because that is the natural state of things. For me it is just to sit back and watch. And for my Turkish Muslim brothers, who have protected Islam for a 1000 years, as Chagatai khanate, Seljuk, Mamluk and Osmanli - I believe all of you with your Steppe Nomad fighting spirit, valor and fierce independence, it is only natural and deserving that you would like to take a leading role in this new coming Islamic Renaissance.

Our European brothers are a little preoccupied with this race thing, after all it has served them well for the last 500 years.

For my White friends, we are after all human beings and I hope you will let us have this liberty while we organize our own house, because to invite and entertain a friend, one must have a nice house, not vermins like the Osama kind.

On the shores of ocean I watch the surf and wonder from where I have come and where I am going. And I wondered why but slowly it came to me tip toeing, before I knew it, the light shone with all its splendor and the darkness was gone. For so I hope the light shall shine for eons to come, from this galaxy to the other.

than we are Turks.

Like many other mentioned before me Turks might have different looks, but we are Turks and accept each other as such.

As far as Turks started looking more caucosoid after mixing with Iranians. Not that it matters to me, but at the company I work for in California, we have 4 Turks (3 Anatolians and one Tatar) and 6 Iranians.
Americans and Europeans think that Turks look Europeans while Iranians look Arabic

If you think Turks mixed with Persians thats not accurate. I live in California and I know alot of Persians,
Turks mixed with Arabs as the Arabs came to transoxania. during 7th or 8th century. they passed through Persia to get to Byzantine empire but Persians didnt get added to the turks population. the original Persians were Purely Aryans before Arabic and Mongolian invasion( which was after seljuk turks invaded Persia). Persians have green eyes blue eye recessive genes that dont show up on them. if Turks had persian inside them than those balkan people who got mixed with turks shouldnt be that dark.

Everybody knows Turks and Mongols are diffrent people.They took Turkish culture as Turkish admirer greeks.They killed a lot of Turks in Mongolian invasion.Mongolians are yellow races,Turks are white races.Sumerians are Turkic origin.Language's %70 same.

By the way, Turks are not european, it's clear...

Did we ever say "we are indo-european"?

"Turks are white races"

KanuniSS: the white race we are talking about in the world is coming from Europe. Your people do not come from west or Europe in general. You are in fact a group coming from Asia.

There is no white DNA at all in your DNA. You are simply mixed yellow people with arab/kurd. You have to accept that now.

Horses can fly, pigs can sing and Turks are Europeans (HAHA)

Hi to all
I am a cypriot mix fully with half cypriot greek and cypriot turkish in me, born and living in england.
I do not feel that teras can actually make remark's on turks being european or not. Neither has he neccesity to act rather childish in trying to put across his view in such a manner!
Teras i ask you this what do you define as being european???
is it the geographical place on the world atlas or culture? religion? history??
i say this to you and you may notknow this but the reason the ideology of europe was to insure trade between nations after ww2 and to avoid any further conflict after such a costly one like ww2, check the legal system for europe this is where you too will find this piece of information, and the luxemberg treaty ithink.

if it is due to geographical status then i think with the aid of half of turkey it qualifies for europe.
If you arelooking for religious aspects then really think about it, europe needs turkey both for safety of europe from any possible attacks, secondly at the present time europe's policy's on other religions namely islam is of concern for the future so they wll improve europes broken image in the islamic world. (and i don't need to remind you why this is so important, refering to 9/11 and london bombings etc)
As for history Turkey has got byzantines history, enough said!!!
Culture the world would agree in saying that greek and turkish culture are similiar, denie all youwnt i'm living proof of that and many like me half of each. plus have you recently been to turkey? most of turkey are now more european in lifestyle then islamic, asian or whatever, so please explain to me how turks can't be classed european??????

ANNONYMOUS look, i think your greek yes? you remind me of my uncle lefterry he too unfortunately shares an ounce of your thoughts about turks, i asked him why once to which he told of some story concerning constantinople or istanbul however his bitterness ends there, i hope you and others like you could stop such hate because for people like me it is hell trying to explain to people i'm half each and for them not to ask how is it possible.

i love having greek in me and turkish, i have a passion for my country cyprus, and it is sad i have to see it divided both sides holds members of my family and because i feel torn between them i will not move there as i really desire to avoid feelings of disloyalty on both sides.
This is what this feud rivalry between greeks and turks have done, it has made the paradise island into hell forthe majority whom cares.

I don't know much about this subject but I find these pictures in one other network54 forum.

A Turkish kid:



A Mongol kid:

The person aboved me is dumbness, posting comparison pictures between turkish girl with blue eyes vs. Mongolian boy with reddish cheeks. you can't compare them since the turkish girl is living in turkey and the Mongol boy is living in Mongolia. they both do not look alike but that dosen't mean turkish peple don't have mongol blood? take a look at the scandinavian people closely, the one who has got platinum blonde hair tend to have facial's features lean toward Mongoloid, small eyes? small nose? and round cheeks........unlike people in mediteranean have got the big long nose, bulgy eyes and long chin?...........I also wanted to tell you that "Uyrgur" in the west of china aren't look like original chinese as you immegin. most of them probably got the same small eyes as chinese? but they got thick skin and the white coloring just the same as all caucasian people in europe, some of them have got blue or gray eyes as well as blonde hair. for example like these pictures.

Urgur girl with blue eyes.

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and now take a look at this picture comparison between original Iranian actress kim kadarshan vs. Iranian girl part Mongol? you could clearly see that the Iranian or turk girl who part mongol? tend to look prettier than the original Iranian and turk since they got lesser body hair? lesser thick eyebrows, smaller nose and lighter skin without jaw line with smoother delicate skin like asian.

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One again, all pictures of the blue eyes chinese in the west of china (Xinjing) they have no caucasian blood in them, they are all pure west chinese and mongol. the reason these people got blue eyes and lighter hair cos they are living in where the weather and geography brought them the mutation to have "leussim" the lesser part of albino. where is the theory for how white people ( caucasian in europe) came to be, anyway.

P.S all races could have people with blue eyes and blonde hair.