A few notes on the Vorlons
--------------------------
So here's what the "informed people" know:
The Vorlon Empire is around 5-10,000 years old and sits on the Centauri Rim. The Empire's borders are well-defined if not patrolled. Their technology base is vary advanced; only the Jurai can really offer an equivalent tech base in the form of the treeships. The sudden appearance (in galactic timescales) of such an advanced civilization has naturally made a number of the older powers very nervous, especially the Jurai and Taiidani. On the opposite scale, the Minbari seem to have an almost religious reverence for the Vorlons, which they do not encourage or discourage.
Expeditions of one sort or another - trade mission, peace mission, invasion force, etc. - have been sent to the designated Vorlon homeworld of Vorlax. To date, none of them have returned.
The Empire is a friendly neutral in the halls of galactic power, offering money and technology to the Council in order to promote some union between the varied factions running the place. The delegates never vote "yes" or "no" to any motion, not even to adjourn the meetings.
All in all, the Vorlons are a little mysterious and mostly benign. If it wasn't for that odd bit about ships entering Vorlon territory and not coming back out.
--
This is what nobody but the Vorlons knows:
*Their proper name isn't "the Vorlon Empire" but "the Vorlon." In the Marain language - the Vorlon native tounge - "Vorlon" translates out to "Culture." As a rule the Vorlons let the common name alone because it's a complex bilingual pun about cultural imperialism.
*Marain, it should be noted, is an artificial language with complex vocabulary and grammar designed for rational discourse. It is of course almost completely extinct in the modern Spiral. A few worlds in the Juraiian and Taiidani hinterlands still speak dialects of Marain, but the standard language itself is known by only a few archivists and a handful of super-ancient Juraiians whose brains are half-eaten by seniility.
*Vorlons are humanoid. The biological ones are at any rate. This gives them a great degree of lattitude in operating quietly around the Spiral. The other component of the Vorlon population consists of pure machine intelligences, mostly supersentient starships and human-level intelligent drones. These don't advertise their presence, period.
*The Spiral as a whole has not seen what the Vorlon would call a "heavy" Vorlon starship. The small scattering of Vorlon ships running about are mainly fast pickets for ambassadorial duties or small general-use ships intended to study less developed civilizations. The *big* ships, the mighty Vorlon General Systems Vehicles, remain out of sight, although every now and then some poor shlub might be bowled over in Hyper1 by a hyperspace wake generated by something *really big* going *really fast.*
*The Vorlon as a civilization is older than the Jurai by a long shot, somewhere between 100,000 and 500,000 standard years old. At its height some 50,000 years ago, it covered most of the current Jurai, Centauri and Taiidani Sectors. It was at this point the Vorlon discovered an OCP they called an Excession at the heart of what is now the Darkvoid, and apparently triggered something. After the Excession ate most of the Scutum-Crux Arm, the Vorlon embarked en masse for less hostile climes, like Andromeda and the Magellanic Clouds.
(A digression: What is an OCP? OCP stands for Outside Context Problem. "And what is *that,* you wordy bastard?" I hear you cry. Well, imagine that you're a tribe living on a largish, fertile island somewhere. You've tamed the land, invented the wheel or writing or whatever, the neighbors are all cooperative or enslaved but at any rate peaceful and you were busy raising temples to yourself with all the excess productive capacity you had, you have power and control that your ancestors could never have dreamed of and the situation is moving along quite smoothly... when suddenly this bristling lump of iron appears sailless and trailing steam in the bay and these guys carrying funny-looking sticks come ashore and announce that you've just been discovered, you're all subjects of the Emperor now, he's keen on presents called "tax" and these bright-eyed holy men would like a word with your priests.
(That is an OCP in a nutshell. Now, imagine what that's like for something on the level of the Vorlon. When you're through quivering in fear, we'll continue.
(Ready? Okay...)
*Recently the Vorlon decided to return in force to the Spiral, seeing signs that the Excession was starting to become active again. Not having any real clues as to what was going to happen but feeling responsible for the damn thing in the first place, the Vorlon good-works operation has been trying to knit something resembling a peaceful union of species together in the Spiral, something that might be able to survive an extradimensional assault should the Excession turn hostile again.
..there's more I could rant about but this needs to be critiqued/revised/sneered at/etc. before I go on. Thoughts?
--Mr. F, Vorlonologist and Culturenik
Transmitted from GSV _Sultans of Swing_
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An intruiging suggestion, and it fits available information pretty well. It's also pretty calm, as Vorlon theories go. In fact, there *have* been reports of hyperships being blown off course by hyper wakes of enough force and size that they could only have been made by something Really Large going Really Fast. On the other hand, those ITK point out that if these are Vorlon craft, they must be the equivalent of tubs with thrusters. After all, surely the Vorlons canaccess hyperII at will by now, right?
ITK - In The Know - used to reference the uninformed but forcefully held opinions of just about anyone about things like the Vorlons. Frequently, there are multiple folks In the Know who disagree with each other violently.
Thing is, we've had this discussion a while back. The truth about Vorlons is CADU, for the forseeable future. If we *knew* what the answer was, we might be tempted to put enough hints in that the readership could figure it out, and that would ruin the fun. The Vorlons are intended to be mysterious and somewhat incomprehensible, and you just can't do that quite as well if we, the authors, know the mystery and comprehend them.
CADU - Canon Area of Doubt and Uncertainty - essentially, we have a Canon answer, and the answer is "we don't know/aren't saying." No further answer is needed or desired for the forseeable future.
Be Well.
Fibula
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Well, in that case I'll be packing up and moving on to greener pastures. My specality is answering questions that you'd rather leave CADU, so my utility here is questionable at best.
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Leaving aside that we need everyone we've got, asking stupid questions and provoking thought on issues - -any- issues - is one of the most reliable ways I know of to build characters and/or worlds.
And, for my part, my view of the Vorlon question isn't so much that there cannot be a real answer, as much as that it's just so much -fun- to torture our hypothetical readers with an imponderable mystery.
...
If it makes you feel any better, it may prove necessary to shift the 'status' of the Vorlon from 'CADU' to 'shocking revelation' at some time in the third act or so...
And, speaking as LE, this is probably the best idea for the Vorlon yet seen.
Blessed be.
Nathan Baxter
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Way back when this was still on the Eyrie boards, I made a one-off remark about a Culture v. Vorlon dustup and you responded with something about "Vorlon" meaning Culture in Marain. I just took it from there, adding detail from _Player of Games_ and whatnot.
--GSV _Sultans of Swing_
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Ummm...me is confused. If I caused you any offense, I am quite sorry. I did not mean to. As for CADU stuff, I think it's pretty much limited to the Vorlons. Hyper bands III and up aren't so much CADU as largely inapplicable, and the origin of the multiple earths is,I think, something of a "CADU until we get a really cool answer". I have no real idea of the status of the Darkvoid, I think that may be a "Nathan knows, and he ain't telling", but I'm not entirely sure. There's still a lot of stuff to cover.
Seriously, I'm sorry if I upset you. Please don't leave. We need all the help we can get, and your posting does display that all-important attribute of "competence".
Fibula
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I can throw out fine and gritty details on miniscule little corners of the Spiral but you can producebig brain-bending scale sorta stuff, which is way cooler than anything I've done.
Which reminds me, write more Spiral stuff. Just saw Sum of All Fears and my muse is upon me (I need a better hat) scribble scribble scribble
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You've stated pretty clearly that the Vorlons are going to remain CADU for the forseeable future. Okay, fine. That's what y'all want to do, I'm not going to object.
LIS, I'm not somebody who's in the business of leaving *anything* CADU. Especially something as cool as the Vorlons.
(Incidentally, the whole Darkvoid thing was an error on my part; I posted that whole rant without backchecking to see if it was close to the actual answer. I blame Robert Sawyer. Onward.)
Hell, I *want* to write Vorlons. It's a similar tack to what Speaker's taking with his Bulwer-Lytton entry: representatives of advanced, mostly anarchic species wandering into the Spiral and generally causing trouble in the name of A Good Cause.
But.
If you guys don't *want* that for whatever reason (fear of spoiling the plot, etc.) then I'm okay with that. I'll just do it somewhere else. No harm, no foul.
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>Hell, I *want* to write Vorlons. It's a similar tack to what Speaker's taking with his Bulwer-Lytton entry: representatives of advanced, mostly anarchic species wandering into the Spiral and generally causing trouble in the name of A Good Cause.<
Ah.
Well, I can see two ways to do that.
First, you can set the stories from the POVs of the characters that your Vorlon is interacting with, and thereby keep the audience in the dark enough to fulfil the CADU requirement - even if you, the author, -do- know what he's thinking.
Or, you could just have him be an undercover Vorlon - as far as anyone, including the audience, he's just a citizen of a particularly advanced nowhere-in-particular world...
Blessed be.
Nathan Baxter
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I know most of the dodges for keeping secrets, and planned to use them (my original plan was to send my SI avatar and the Banzai Institute on a Quest for the Vorlons, eventually culminating in something big around the middle of Act II).
The thing here is, apparently nobody wants to *know* beforehand.
I just don't get that.
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Basically, I have two reasons that I like writing with CADU.
- the whole "keeping secrets" thing *doesn't* come all that easily to me. If all my writing is going to be from an outside perspective, then I'll write it better if I'm thinking from an outside perspective, and I'll do that better if Iactually *am* from an outside perspective.
- Most of my really cool ideas come in flashes of connect-the-dots analytical, "but wait, if these are all true, then..." intuition. Your view of the Vorlons is fine. Nothing wrong with it at all, but it's not all very intricate. For me, all the really intruiging quirky detail in the backstory comes in when you start thinking "well, we've seen all this stuff happen. How could it possibly all make sense together?" So, while I do think that the great revelation of what's going on with the Vorlons (at least some of it) is almost required for some of the really climactic moments, Ifigure it might well be a more interesting thing to reveal if we start by throwing a lot of clues in the pot, and figure out what they add up to.
I'll grant outright that both of these reasons are based heavily in how my personal writing style works, and I have no idea if anyone else works that way, but that's why I'm sorta fond of CADU as an idea. If you need a working hypothesis in order to write (not unreasonable) you can take refuge in the pretty well established tendency of the Vorlon to promote conspiracy theories, and just have all of the Vorlon in your neck of the woods deliberately acting as if {fill in the blank} were the real story. If you really need to know The Truth to feel comfortable with the characters (also reasonable) then that doesn't mesh so well. I suppose you could work it out with Nathan, but I'd ask that you not tell me, and also that you leave it nebulous enough to be at least significantly deformed by sudden, clue-driven revelation.
As a side issue, leaving the answer up in the air means that when we finally do hit that climactic moment, we can twist it a bit to fit the needs of the narrative.
I suppose that I just like the idea that in this universe, the Vorlons are so mysterious that not even the authors know the whole story. It gives them an extra bit of ______.
I put in the blank here, because the thoughtform I'm going for doesn't really have a straight English translation. Something in between reality, density, coolness, existance, meaning, substance, ect.
Whatever. Just trying to explain a bit, at least from my side.
Fibula
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>>- Most of my really cool ideas come in flashes of connect-the-dots analytical, "but wait, if these are all true, then..." intuition. Your view of the Vorlons is fine. Nothing wrong with it at all, but it's not all very intricate. For me, all the really intruiging quirky detail in the backstory comes in when you start thinking "well, we've seen all this stuff happen. How could it possibly all make sense together?" So, while I do think that the great revelation of what's going on with the Vorlons (at least some of it) is almost required for some of the really climactic moments, Ifigure it might well be a more interesting thing to reveal if we start by throwing a lot of clues in the pot, and figure out what they add up to.<<
And that works as a way of making the readers want more.
It's the concept of extending the "we don't know, or we *do* know but we won't tell you just yet" to the WRITING STAFF that baffles me completely.
Speaking as somebody with a fair amount of collective fiction experience under his belt, that approach Just Doesn't Work when it comes to major plot elements.
Okay, story time:
Many, many years ago when Kibo still walked openly upon the 'net, I happened to get involved with a storytelling group called the Jihad to Destroy Barney the Purple Dinosaur - maybe you've heard of it? Anyway, the group was pretty free-form; like the early bits of UF, anything went.
Now, around this time we started a big multi-chapter story detailing an alien invasion. The plot was.. well, it was pretty standard, but it was a new one on us. Our LE promised that the storyline would change the group's world forever.
Boy, did it ever.
We all started to write our stories, and we each came up with ways to defeat - or at least delay - the invasion. Most of us would post in our public Usenet (remember that?) group and wait for the next guy to round-robin off that. What we often got instead was a big, fat RETCON stamp from the LE.
(Now, you need to bear in mind that this is not the same thing as what most of the posts here are - for the most part we're hashing out backstory and general plot, back then and there we were posting complete stories.)
When pressed for an explanation, the LE usually refused to give one. When threatened, he finally gave in and said that "the story doesn't conform to what I intended for the aliens." We respond, "Well, then *tell* us about the aliens, dammit!" and he says no.
It ultimately turned out that the LE had his own secret plan for wrapping up the plot, but didn't bother to tell any of the writers outside three or four a single detail. The result? The story was a hideous mess, almost two megs of redundant and irrelevant text. The LE kept things running out of sheer arrogance before claiming boredom and dropping out two years later. The group will probably never recover, despite valiant efforts by some of the members.
***
So what does that comedy of errors have to do with the Spiral?
Well, it's an illustration of what might happen if we decide that keeping writers in the dark is a good move.
-SEATEC ASTRONOMY, aka Mr. F
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1. The real nature of God, the Afterlife, and everything, because bringing real faith in would cause more trouble, argument and genuine moral conflict (for the authors) than it could possibly add to the story.
2. The nature, origins, and actual goal of That Which Lurks, because we really haven't found a favored answer yet.
3. The goals, capabilites, and thoughts of the Vorlons, because we want to annoy the readers and leave them in the dark.
4. Why every culture in the known universe has independantly invented Swedish Meatballs, for the obvious reason.
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Methinks some folks forget this is a public, if relatively hidden, forum, and thus the Truly Monumental(tm) ought not to be discussed here... thus the keeping of details about, say, the Vorlons under lock and key.
That said, any possibility of some sort of writers only, truly secure forum for black ops type stuff?
-={(Astynax)}=-
"Literary Pest at Large"
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>That said, any possibility of some sort of writers only, truly secure forum for black ops type stuff?<
Given that there are only two subjects so far that would really require secrecy, I'd say that private email and/or a yahoo list would be about right.
Just so long as most of the discussion stays here - I like the idea of having the creation process as a matter of record for any (hypothetical) fans to look over.
Blessed be,
The LE.
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Eric Hallstrom
http://www.kawaiikunee.com/slp/
--
<winter> netscape is far too stable.
<winter> I wish it would crash more often.
<winter> It keeps lulling me into the belief that its professionally
developed software. I hate that.
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okay... I'd see a large difference between "there is no real answer yet" and "Some of us know the answer, but we ain't telling. Nyah." Specifically, if you're supposed to be writing about something that has an answer, but no one knows it, then your writing has to conform with information that isn't available to you. I agree without reservation that this is a Bad Thing. If there is no answer yet, then all you have to conform with is other available evidence, i.e. stuff that has either been published or is in review process, and thus available to the other writers. If there is, in fact, have an answer for the Truth About The Vorlons, then I have been terribly misled. Admittedly, I don't expect or intend to write heavily about Vorlons, so this is not neccessarily crucial, but I'm rather miffed about the whole being misled thing.
Umm...Nathan? To annoy the readers? WTF? Confuse, perhaps. Arouse curiosity, yes. Amuse, well, if we're lucky. Annoy? Why the hell would we want to annoy our readership? I'm hoping this was a joke, but honestly, if so, it was in rather poor taste. This particular thread ain't exactly infused with a great deal of levity, and some jokes crash horribly in unprepped rooms. There is, as they say, a time and a place.
Right. I'm going to step outside of my self-interest right now, because I'd like to do what I can to preserve what little we have here. My current state is this...
- I like the idea of Vorlons being CADU. I am fond of this idea for a variety of reasons that I have described already, and I am of the opinion that it will produce better stories. I am not fanatically attached. If we were to decide upon a Canon Truth before starting to publish Vorlon stories, I would likely be a bit saddened, but little else would change. I would be slightly less likely to devote creative resources to Spirla stories, and slightly more likely to wander off somehwere, but it probably will not have much of an effect for me.
- mostly, I'd like to have a nice, clear idea as to what's going on, because it appears that stuff is changing at an almost ridiculous pace.
I would ask that everyone who is still involved here post where they are right now, so that we have an opportunity to sit back and try to understand each other without flying off. No jokes, no handwaving, actual feelings, perspectives. and goals. Or not. It's your call, but it looks like this is getting quite serious, and I'd like to give honest communication a chance. Thank you.
Fibula
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>okay... I'd see a large difference between "there is no real answer yet" and "Some of us know the answer, but we ain't telling. Nyah." Specifically, if you're supposed to be writing about something that has an answer, but no one knows it, then your writing has to conform with information that isn't available to you. I agree without reservation that this is a Bad Thing. If there is no answer yet, then all you have to conform with is other available evidence, i.e. stuff that has either been published or is in review process, and thus available to the other writers. If there is, in fact, have an answer for the Truth About The Vorlons, then I have been terribly misled. Admittedly, I don't expect or intend to write heavily about Vorlons, so this is not neccessarily crucial, but I'm rather miffed about the whole being misled thing.<
There is no Truth. The questions under discussion are, first, do we establish one? And second, what should it be?
>Umm...Nathan? To annoy the readers? WTF? Confuse, perhaps. Arouse curiosity, yes. Amuse, well, if we're lucky. Annoy? Why the hell would we want to annoy our readership? I'm hoping this was a joke, but honestly, if so, it was in rather poor taste. This particular thread ain't exactly infused with a great deal of levity, and some jokes crash horribly in unprepped rooms. There is, as they say, a time and a place.<
*blush* Let us merely say that I can be rather sadistic when I fail to think better, and accept that saying that was a mistake on my part.
>Right. I'm going to step outside of my self-interest right now, because I'd like to do what I can to preserve what little we have here. My current state is this...<
>- I like the idea of Vorlons being CADU. I am fond of this idea for a variety of reasons that I have described already, and I am of the opinion that it will produce better stories. I am not fanatically attached. If we were to decide upon a Canon Truth before starting to publish Vorlon stories, I would likely be a bit saddened, but little else would change. I would be slightly less likely to devote creative resources to Spirla stories, and slightly more likely to wander off somehwere, but it probably will not have much of an effect for me.<
>- mostly, I'd like to have a nice, clear idea as to what's going on, because it appears that stuff is changing at an almost ridiculous pace.<
???? I didn't receive that impression at all. Things are being -discussed-, certainly, but I'm not sure as anything's really changed yet.
>I would ask that everyone who is still involved here post where they are right now, so that we have an opportunity to sit back and try to understand each other without flying off. No jokes, no handwaving, actual feelings, perspectives. and goals. Or not. It's your call, but it looks like this is getting quite serious, and I'd like to give honest communication a chance. Thank you.<
This is a good thought. I'm currently thinking about not screwing up my first month of college. My biggest concern with the Spiral is actually getting various tales -finished-, as opposed to fragments of varying length.
As to the Vorlons, I'm really lacking in much of any opinion at the moment, and mean to wait for a consensus to emerge from the greater body of authors.
Blessed be.
baxter3@tcnj.edu
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[Asking largely because I live in South Eastern PA, and am always amazed to run into netizens in my neck of the woods. That and I'm hunting potential Quake3 victims...err players;)]
-={(Astynax)}=-
"Bring me the Holy Hand Grenade"
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