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An underline on your dial stands for Tritium!

February 8 2009 at 7:51 AM

  (Login philippstahl)
VRF Contributing Member
from IP address 84.30.93.72

Thanks to Bas.nl for the scientific use of a Geiger meter to date a dial correctly.

"I have measured with my Geiger counter more than 10 Rolex watches with a underline.
All of them had swiss on the dial, and there was no radiation!

When you measured a normal swiss dial (no underline) they are radioactive.
They give a radiation of 1 til 30 microSw/h "

From the earlier results we measure together...
5512...
[linked image]

6542...
[linked image]

6538...
[linked image]

To your studie on the messuared underlines you have had, gives me the decisive...It all makes sense to me, finally i can agree on the definitaion of underline stands for tritium.
The Typo difference and print colour that have been used on underline dials...& using White Swiss, Gold swiss etc...

an underline on your dial stands for Tritium, and was used around '62-'63, simpel :- )

[linked image]

Cool we are making progress here....like it!

Rgrds.P




 
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AuthorReply


(Login BuyingAssistance)
VRF Member
190.55.27.90

Progress indeed. Great for Bas and you P!

February 8 2009, 8:04 AM 

And the say sunday is a resting day... not for everybody!

 
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(Login philippstahl)
VRF Contributing Member
84.30.93.72

Thanks Nicolas...

February 8 2009, 8:12 AM 

If been triggered quite some time on he underline issue.

I'm glad i can let it go now every time i look at one wink.gif
[linked image]

[linked image]

 
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(Login jatucka)
VRF Director
85.18.227.211

very intresting....

February 8 2009, 9:23 AM 

....... P.


P, as i wrote yesterday to Bas.nl and to buddy Orchi, this could be a good input in the study of the Underlines.

maybe all the Underlined have Tritium and not Rarium in the dial.

maybe before the use of "T<25" print they used to print the Underline. <br>
so all the Underlined in the very old reference could be very early Service dials, or just dials in which Rolex changed the Radium with the Tritium before to sell them.

it can make sense.

just two things.

1
why to use Underline + T SWISS T in this dial ?

[linked image]


2
concerning some very old reference with the Underline.
is it possible that we payied lot of money for some early Service dials ?? wink.gif


cheers.

 
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(Login DrStrong)
VRF Member
82.251.127.19

Number one is a very good question Roberto !

February 8 2009, 9:30 AM 

P. is already thinking about it...and better not ask question number two wink.gif

Cheers

Jeff

 
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(Login philippstahl)
VRF Contributing Member
84.30.93.72

Underline says "watches with no dangerous radiation - using tritium instead of radium" ...

February 8 2009, 9:55 AM 

also from your shown the T SWISS T dial, my statement stands

But I'll give you a Tudor Underline dial to think about Jeff & Roberto...wink.gif

Gilt - silver - swiss - underline...
[linked image]

Rgrds.P

 
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(Login BuyingAssistance)
VRF Member
190.55.27.90

It's possible they marked with the underline

February 8 2009, 9:33 AM 

some dials which had the radium removed and placed tritium instead.

I think T swiss T dials also belong to a not very clear transition (I mean transition from radium to tritium) and if at that time they were using underlines to flag tritium dials marked swiss, wouldn't be strange they also did the print "-" on other t swiss t dials they had at the moment being produced, only to make sure non radioactive content was on the dial. This was not a minor issue, just figure out at that time what could possibly mean to a brand: Rolex sells watches with radioactive material. They had to wipe that off for good. A watchmaker can get his store closed if he is caught handling this, today, just imagine at that time.

Roberto, we pay crazy sums for Gilt service dials for 6538s, so we are already in the ball, lets dance.

 
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David
(Login lovewatches2)
VRF Member
72.207.8.77

WOW more great research !! Thankyou

February 8 2009, 9:45 AM 

Hello phillip,
Fantastic research.

I am always amazed at the passion and ability that some members, such as yourself, share with the rest of us collectors.

You guys are are what collecting is all about.

Thankyou very much.

David

 
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(Login Hadoque)
217.233.92.15

some more numbers

February 8 2009, 10:54 AM 

from Philipps measurements 5 Mikrosievert per hour
it's easy to calculate a radiation dose of ca. 45 Millisievert per year (mSv/a)

This means more than 1oo times the intensity of the average cosmic radiation dose (0,3 mSv/a)

the NATURAL ENVIRONMENTAL RADIOACTIVITY (cosmic, terrestric, Inhalation and Ingestion of nuclids)
messures around 2 mSievert/year.

Profesionals (e.g. working in an hospital X-ray departement) in the EU are not allowed to exceed 20 mSv/a.

the radiation dose of an standard X-ray is around 0,04 mSv
of a standard CT-scan (Thorax) around 8 Sv.

the half life ratio for the different Radium subtypes (nuclids) range up to 1602 years
for Radium 226 (which is supposed to be the used type for luminate purposes )

But: the topic is much more complicated. It can not be described with some numbers.

Best protection is: DISTANCE

Imho:
Rolex did not undertake big efforts and an expensive recall programm for dial excahnge to have
satiesfied some green weirdos.
The issue was probably well discussed with all appropriate Earnestness and edequate action was taken.

 
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(Login philippstahl)
VRF Contributing Member
84.30.93.72

Nice report Pitt! i show you some 'distance'.... ;- )

February 8 2009, 11:10 AM 

You see from the dails site it's 3 x more radiactive then from the casebackside

[linked image]

[linked image]

The real killer are the Depthgauge & Compass...heavy stuff!
[linked image]

[linked image]

Rgrds.Philipp

 
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(Login Hadoque)
217.233.92.15

Philipp, that effect is not distance alone. It's shielding as well.

February 8 2009, 11:35 AM 

The caseback does absorb some radiation in addition because of its much higher atomar density.

 
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(Login dutchclock)
VRF Member
82.169.175.46

Nice..

February 8 2009, 12:40 PM 

Hi,

Thanks for the line up. I posted a similar topic a while ago and I agree it is a most underestimated topic....... ! But the main problem is that the topic is far more complicated when quoting dangers of wearing these beauties... Working with the dial full of radium in an unprotected area is another underestimated subject btw....

Lot to write about...

cheers,
Mark

 
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(Login orchi)
VRF Contributing Member
60.50.66.142

So perhaps..it's time to get rid of the hazardous "Radium" Dialed watches..&(+)

February 8 2009, 11:41 AM 

Err...opt for safer "Tritium" or "Luminova" Dialed watches...
instead.

"Tritium" has a half life decay on average 12.32 years or so...
n perhaps those "Tritium" watches produced last in 1998...
might still emit radioactivity...tipping the scale slightly...

Then the RARER "underline" Gilt Dialed watches...being the 1st of its
kind marking the use of "Tritium" on watches...would topple
the scale of resale market price indexes...follow closely
by the watches that have Gilt plots with "Tritium" on Dials...

Err...any chance of seeing someone selling Gilt Radium Dialed watches...
cheaper...?

Heheh...

Best regards
Orchi.

 
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(Login dutchclock)
VRF Member
82.169.175.46

Buddy Orchi..

February 8 2009, 12:44 PM 

...Thought about the same thing...wink.gif BUT there is a difference between wearing those or working on the dials (watchmakers)... and besides...even those risks are extremely difficult to define as there are lots of factors to take into account.

Solution could be to find the nicest t < 25 dial you can find (for the 5508 f.i. a gilt version does exist, and swap dials....keep the swiss one somewhere safe. <br>
But then again.....most of those swiss dials are just soooooo nice...wink.gif

cheers,
Mark

 
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(Login Snorlex)
VRF Member
77.164.71.203

Ther are always exceptions on the rules>>

February 8 2009, 3:17 PM 

My '61er 1675 underliner is full of Radium and still radioactive (over 3). That was discovered by the same Bas a few months ago- he must have forgottend that. I visited him and he told me then that all underliners he has examend had Tritium on it. We/he examend the dial and yellow gold hands closely and came to the conclusion that the Radium was original and still dangerous glowing.



cheers



Rob



7.JPG

 
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(Login philippstahl)
VRF Contributing Member
84.30.93.72

Interesting Rob!...can you make us a close up of the Underline?

February 8 2009, 3:41 PM 

I think i know your watch, wasn't that the one i initially bought some 3 years ago but on some kind of missing brotherhood wink.gif i didn't got the chance to pay your friend and it ended up with you?

As you say yourself, the hands are yellow gold and not matching to the dial, probably changed later, as the bezel... so it interest me how the underline looks closely on your dial...would love to see some macro scans if you can.

Interest and worthwhile investigating! next time you're in Maastricht, please bring it with you and come for a espresso.

regards Philipp

 
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(Login BuyingAssistance)
VRF Member
190.55.27.90

It'd be good to measure hands and dial sepparately.

February 8 2009, 4:13 PM 

Maybe dial has radium, but maybe it does have tritium and the geiger meter might be reading radium on the hands.


 
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(Login orchi)
VRF Contributing Member
118.100.4.44

TQ Buddy Nicolas..your suggestion is BEST..that would explain it logically...(nt)

February 8 2009, 5:58 PM 

Best regards
Orchi.

 
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(Login orchi)
VRF Contributing Member
118.100.4.44

Buddy Rob..another indication whether Radium was used..is that Radium turns Black..(+)

February 8 2009, 6:31 PM 

Err...easily in oxidation when exposed to AIR...

In its pure radioactive chemical element...Radium
is PURE WHITE...having a half-life decay of 1,602 years.

Radium was primarily used to make indicators & switches
to be luminous...such as Dials on watches...
aircraft instruments & etc...

It ceased to be used in later part of 1950s...due
to its DEADLY hazardous properties...

More than 100 ladies(dubbed as the Radium Girl)...
died subsequently due to exposure to Radium...when they worked
as Dial Painter for US Radium Corp back in the
1930s...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls

Best regards
Orchi.

 
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