First Thanks Roger from the UK and Thanks Jack From Canada.. You were very helpful.

I compared this dial to both of your watches, and the fonts in the dial are 99.99999 % exact... now the only difference is the markers and hands , the are black, the serial number of this watch is R38xxxx and ref 16550 .. I think is probably the last Rail Dials and Rolex had the dial and simply added the black circles, because there were no more silver indexes available.

I simply wanted to post the watch int he forum because I think is Rare version of the dial . i wanted to be saved in the dial archive also. and I will be selling it the market, and DID NOT want some smart mouth saying is fake just because they cant compare and they don't own or have had this watch in there hands before.

Please see the pics, the dial is stunning

william, but anything is possible, though R serial is very early when they were still wearing wg surrounds at that point, and yes there will be no argument about if they are genuinely manufactured by rolex or not, just how the colour change came about.



we have seen them at AQ, on Ebay, and I think even on the sales corner before, but it all depends on your view, if you belive that these ones shown below ALSO are correct (i.e. genuinely cream), that we used to see as white, yet mysteriously now every one we see come up for sale is cream, then we have rail, t swiss <25t, swiss <25 T, and a couple of black variants now also. <br>
.... in which case pretty much every variant they made turns cream and are hardly very special or deserving of a premium:)

OR we consider that maybe a few years ago when cream fever swept Japan and then outwards some sneaky chaps figured out how to alter the colour ( maybe like the so called pattrizzi thing ) - I dont own one currentyy so no axe to grind but its no secret that I love em, but if it were me, my money would go into one kind and one kind only, and even then ......... personally i think the jury is still out!!

No, you haven't right!!! no one has I THINK

My point is not that some one can change colors, hey we can go to the moon ...
My point is that, this dial is 100% Original and that it came with black surroundings, that has not been altered... Or can you give me an example of a 16550 rail with white dial..NOOOO


The ones shown in antiquorum ,looks ok but I cant really see the fonts.
But you simply wrote a bunch of words of might this might that..That is not my point ... MY point is I have one , I have handled many and the dial is original and is another version of the cream dial, and is the first black surrounding 16550 ever produced.. And to prove there is a small probability is wrong or has been touched, you would have compare wih another 16550 rail dial and show me a difference , NOt be close minded and say well I will only put my money in what people say is correct, then you simply follow the masses. I remember buying a gilt dial 6541 ahhh rare , unique 2 of kind, humanity has even seen. most would have said if fake..but it wasn't. 100% real and rare.

I once said that, I don't anymore.. that why in my first post i request people to compare the dial to one hey own or to high quality pictures, not to there opinion, but to facts.

Thanks Jed

yes there are lots of IFs in the cream dial market, but this this is not the point I was making, nor saying your dial was fake...and the first thing I said the dial is obviosuly a genuine dial made by Rolex...

the point was about the market for cream dials, we now see more cream dials than non cream dials (whether all started life that way we do not know), so is a cream dial something special, something that should be paid for or will they all be this way, this is a question we now must ask, every dial made for the 16550 and even some 16570 are being sold as cream... maybe the premium should be to find a white dial...

but rather the silver markers and hands RATHER than the black. WHY they went to the black is beyond me...I NEVER liked it and was so disappointed when I finally was able to get the funds and the availability to secure a white dialed one back in 1990...only to find that hey had changed the marker color to black. I would GLADLY take a 16550 with a white dial with silver markers and hands that was STARK white...that way it looks like it did when it was new.

Just one man's preference. To each his own.

hi my friends.

i dont think that this dial was borne in this watch.

i think that this kind of dial comes from a 16570 serial number E .

i did a long study on this Cream Dials, toghether with my O&P Italian Forum's friends.

there is a batch (almost unknown) in the E serial number with Cream Rail Dials (black indexes) and Black Rail Dials (black indexes).

3 of the E 16570 (two Cream, one Black rail) were from the original owners, still with B&P.

hope that this will help


cheers from Italy.

Are you sure? Or did you mean silver indexes?

You are telling me there is a cream rail dial in the E serial (RAIL) ???

http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4F5LH

both in collectors circles and public auctions, and of course some non rail cream on early 16570 style dials also seen.

the AQ one was a 90/91 watch i think.

is the opposite, I think some one has changed the dial from a 16550 to a 16570...Not the opposite, but hey anything is possible, But the possibilities are in both sides, rolex had cream dials and they were doing experiments on markers and they used black markers in the 16550 , or rolex had an old batch of cream dials and used the black circles on the first 16570..

Both things are possible.

and probably you are right imagine finding a rail white dial..that will be the day.,..


Sorry If i was rude, I think Also you did not understand my point, my point is to people be opened on a possibilities, If I had posted the watch first with the whole dial , they would have said is wrong, but I didn't I posted the fonts, this way new guys and old collectors really look at the dial with detail...

Thanks for your opinion

sorry my friend, you are right !!

i was wrong, quite obviously i meant "silver" indexes !

here are just some of the E serial 16570


(courtesy E.Piretti)


(courtesy Architrave/O&P)


(courtesy Giacomo.B/O&P)


(courtesy Stevemc.queen/O&P)


cheers from Italy.

Thanks I just learn something new...

Is great to know this, Now we know anything is possible..

Is possible then this dial does not belong or that this is the first cream rail with black..

I love when we discuss ,with pictures ...is much easier.

...... my friend.


i dont have the Grail in my pocket

that's what i saw, the almost unknown E serie.

and i think that we should take note of the possibility.


cheers from Italy

most likely due to uv damage but still a nice watch and since i got it from the original owner whit boxes and paperwork and he told me it had only had a movment service and a ligth polish, rigth before i bougth it, i know its all original dial and hands

first in comparison whit a all white 16570

and then whit box and papers sold in march of 1989 it was a R-8xx xxx serial

cheers
christian

Best regards
Orchi.

always interesting to have more information. m

nt