Dear VRF members

i'm posting this today because im puzzled and confused, its a question about the ALL RED HAND gmt 1675

The story started this summer in London, when i decided to trade a patek philippe watch with some vintage sport rolex...i was offered four watches..

DRSD MK4

5513 Gilt

6263

and A 1675 ALL RED GMT HAND.

i took the first 3 and skipped the GMT because i have never herd of an all RED HAND before!

the seller said to me that this hand was produced some time between 1968-1972 and that it is 100% original... but i hesitated.

then i posted a question on VRF but still i was hesitant.. some said that it was produced just for the fareast market.

A month later.. i went back to Saudi Arabia... and i contacted our Rolex retailer.. who is a retailer since 1962.. i was looking for a matt dial for a 16750 that i just purchased from london.. So he told me that he will check the old stock boxes and asked me to pass in the evening.

that evening when i went to the shop he told me that he could not fined any 16750 dials BUT he found three 1675 dials if i was interested!!

i said to my self ,, why not?! it could be my lucky day,and that there is a chance one would be Gilt :-p

BUT the surprise was A SET OF 1675 DIAL AND HANDS WITH AN ALL RED GMT HAND!!!!!

i said to my self.. WOW then its true!!!!! hmmm but not in the fareast but in Arabia too..

So i called the dealer in london who had offered the all red hand GMT to me and told him that i was interested

so i purchased the watch from him

its from year 1969 with case back dated 70, the dial and hands are not perfect but no problem.. i have a perfect set now

so i sent it to RSC London for service (and i wanted to see if they would comment on the hand or not)

and with me is the perfect set waiting to be fitted on the watch as soon as its finished.

BUT

yesterday as i was browsing the VRF site,, i read my friend Orchis post (wich was very interesting) about the deferent 1675 matt dial variations

and strangly my dial looks like a MK4 dial.!!!!

HOW can that be if the all red hand was produced 1968-1970?

dose any one have an explanation?
i would realy appreciate members help

Best Regards

Dana
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Err...n they do exist from the time that Rolex
stopped producing the Small 24hr GMT Hand for
early 1675 GMT SquareGuards with Gilt Dial..

It is believed to have been a standard feature of 1675 GMT watches...
from 1966 or so...until 1972 or so at certain Rolex markets at the time...
possibly on 1675 GMT Master with MK.1 n MK.2 Dial variants...as well.

It is also possible that the 1675 GMT Master with MK.3 "Radial Mini" Dial
could have had this feature of the 24hr All Red GMT hand...

This particular set of 1675 GMT hands(with 24hr All Red) was recently purchased from...
1 of the VRF's 1st Class collector/resellers...

?t=1239597171

These 24hr All Red GMT hands...are in the other SEA's 1st Class Rolex...
GMT collector's possession who is a VRF member here as well...

?t=1239597584

This specific one is taken from Buddy Dana's enquiry in here...along with what
is seen to be a beautiful MK.4 Matte Dial for 1675 GMT Master...in NOS. conditions.




BUT when once notice the TOP picture...one would see that BOTH the packing envelopes...
in Buddy Dana's possession...are having different hand-written writing of "1675" on
the respective envelopes...perhaps meaning BOTH envelopes would NOT have been marked n written by
the same person...

It could be possible...
that the envelope containing the set of 1675 GMT hands may have
been "combined" or "mixed-up" intentionally or otherwise...
from a separate source by the Sender of those 2 envelopes before
Buddy Dana received it...

So to assume that the MK.4 Dial comes complete originally with the set of GMT Hands containing...
the 24hr All Red hand originally...may thus be unlikely...
unless other sources could be found in nearest future...
to see if the 24hr All RED hand...could be featured with 1675 MK.4 Dial...

Nonetheless...the above is just an opinion from Orchi's novice observation n own finding...
the opinions of the others may differ...

Best regards
Orchi.

P/S: Here are various scans of watches that Orchi could gather from various sources...
as well as some in own possession...which would illustrate the illusive 24hr All RED GMT hand...stunningly.

Presently...due to certain Myth or Beliefs that ROLEX never produced this
type of 24hr All RED GMT hands...by certain collectors or resellers...
being too eager at times...to wrongly discount the existence of such hand...

The availability of the 24hr All Red GMT hands in the market...
though on RARE occasions..are still being sold for reasonable prices...
However Orchi prays...that after this...the prices won't shoot up by
too much...at the hands of the relevant resellers...

Thanks for watching...


1675 GMT SquareGuards with Gilt Dial...Pic courtesy of SEA's 1st Class GMT collector...

?t=1239600129

MK.1 GMT Matte Dial...Pic courtesy of SEA's 1st Class GMT collector...

?t=1239599990

MK.2 GMT Matte Dial...1971...from Orchi.



Similar MK.2 Matte Dial...1972...Pic courtesy of www.vetroplastica.it

?t=1239599849

i'm going back and i'm checking that old box my self

Best Regards

Dana

compare it to the all red hands in your post. Different red shade color and too glossy on some. Also in one scan the 71 I believe, looks like the top of the 24 hour lum area is flattened by pint overrun. Also the 24 hand border thickness is inconsistent form one all red hand to another. SEA's 1st Class GMT is an example of blatant bleeding of paint onto the lum. Looks like someone used a pint brush

Orchi I know these all red 24 hands my look neat to GMT collectors, but if one studies them carefully one would see the shortcomings of not being a Rolex made part. Many mistakes and amateurish craftsmanship. Rolex is not that sloppy.

Just my observation and personal study of these red hands.

Arthur


http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

Err...which was perhaps a common practice by watchmakers of yester years...
depending on the circumstances of those days...

But Orchi digresses...

There were NO Colour TVs...only B&W Telefunken...PYE or RadioShack or GE.
There were NO Movies in 70mm WideScreen Panavision Colors..
only B&W Charlie Chaplin Silent movies on 16mm films...

There were NO Facsimile machines..only manual Olivetti or Olympic typewriters.
There were NO Xerox Colour Photocopier...only Black n White Canon...
There were NO Digital Camera...only Black & White Kodak films.

There were NO Motorola Cellular phones...
only required the "Operator Assistance" to connect...
cross countries landlines...or under oceans trunk lines...

There were NO Microcomputers or Personal Computers...
There were NO Internet...

n they had NO wireless GPS mobile cellular phones...with 3G Internet access.

BUT they had Telex machines that would waste tonnes of long
PUNCHED paper strips to peddle their trades...n finances.

And they could NOT see what were happening in an instant...
n they would NOT know what were the rest of the world doing...
until they see the news...in Black & White newsprints...

In the Early days also...the 1675 GMT Masters were common "In-Thing" that
the privilege Airline Pilots or those of the regular Air travelers...
of yester years used to own...

Whilst some of other population had seen it...n dream about it...
The majority of the World's population had never seen it before...

Some of privilege Air travelers would meet up half way across the World...only
to discover that some other Air travelers were having 1675 GMT Master watches...
that featured the shinny tip at the end of the 24hr GMT hands...

Most of all...there were NO Vintage Rolex collectors like us nutty
aficinados in the VRF...or ANYwhere in the World...at the time...
to debate on whose Rolex watches had what...or what was what...
or which one was FAKE...

Yes one can imagine the looks on their faces...in awe at the different
variants of JUST the colours of the Bezel inserts...
n also the options of bracelet types...
n also the 24hr GMT hands alone....

Some were all Shinny...broad arrow tip.
Some had small arrow shinny tip...
Whilst some were All Red...broad arrow tip.

NOBODY said nothing about which was being a FAKE...

Until such time somewhere in Mid 1990s or late 1990s...
There has been the birth of the Internet...
Soon after...ALL heck broke loose...
with those that had the Rolex Coronet watches on their wrists...

Yes one could perhaps remember the looks on their faces...
when they started off then to own more...as the Hobby of collecting...
or trading the Vintage Rolex watches...

But anyway...lets put aside Orchi's ranting of the above.

Perhaps one could recognize this...said to be originally complete...
in NOS conditions by the 1st Class VRF Collector/Reseller...
a set of Rolex GMT Hands...in particularly the Second Hand of this picture..??

?t=1239638893

One might notice that the Second hand has a Longer Stem...

IF Orchi may ask...
Which Rolex watch n which Cal.movement would these set of GMT Hands...
fit into...in particularly with the Second Hand that has a longer Stem..??

Thanks in advance for your assistance,

Best regards
Orchi..

is making a $ killing. I guess his shop is doing well nowadays..lol

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

Err...now why would a GREEDY handmaker do that...
when he could be pushing FAKE All Red 24hr hand alone...
all by itself...for more easy money...
as you have assumed it to be...?

Would you make sense...?

Best regards
Orchi.

Arthur

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

i just came from the RSC and Orchi is right!!!

there was a mistake!! the dial was mis matched.. i found one set left in there stock and when i checked it seemed that i took the wrong one.

thanks Orchi

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.

I will be buying my mismatched Rolex flat red paint from my local hobby store and start converting my skeleton 24 hour hands to an all red configuration and then I will send them to a re-luming place to give them a nice patina tritium color.

Very low cost and easy to do process. Ebay and paypal here I came.

LOL, Arthur





http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

Err...instead of having you to through all the following extent n troubles...
to make...peanuts.

"I will be buying my mismatched Rolex flat red paint from my local hobby store
and start converting my skeleton 24 hour hands to an all red configuration
and then I will send them to a re-luming place to give them a nice patina tritium color.

Very low cost and easy to do process. Ebay and paypal here I came.

LOL, Arthur"

IF Orchi may humbly suggest...for you or anyone in VRF for the matter...
When you can find such a FAKE(in your opinion)...from eBay...or
any amount of the ALL RED 24hour GMT hands that you may possess or find...
which could be fitting the EXACT Rolex factory specs...the steel integrity...
paint texture n shine...like those from Buddy Dana's example...or those
that have been illustrated by Orchi in here...




Orchi would take any quantity...at desired prices anyday.
Safe always...Orchi sees them personally to be 100% matching PRECISELY...
to those posted in here...in NOS n matching Patina conditions safe in Rolex
packing(untampered).


?t=1239648723
?t=1239648809
?t=1239648843

Could you be kind...to consider Orchi's suggestion...if it's good...?

Then instead of perhaps laughing your way to the bars...
you could be laughing your ways to your bank...

LOL... ; ;

Best regards
Orchi.

but for me the authenticity and aesthetics are not right for me. Then again the PN Mayor dial was not to my liking as as well. Go figure?

Arthur

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

Err...here it is from Buddy Dana...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/message/1240236167/just+spoke+to++RSC+London+about+all+red+hand

Best regards
Orchi.

I have seen this all red 24 on relumed and hand painted on hands, as well as after-market 24 hour hands.

I inquired at Rolex parts in Dallas about this and as well as other older watchmakers about this iusse years ago to make sure from all sides..Never happened..But I know were a few after market all red hands are sold by watch material and parts stores They seem to be coming out of the wood work only the past three years.

I had the pleasure of inspecting a few during the past two years and found red paint bleeding onto the center luminous part of the 24 hand on all of them.

I think maybe a watchmaker or collector was board and started this hobby maybe to have a different look on his GMT's.

Arthur

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

this hand came from Saudi Arabia RCS from a box with old parts i bought it my self!!

the dial and hands are from

"Alkohaji" Rolex retailers in Saudi Arabia till this Day

it is 100% ORIGINAL

the set are NOS never on a watch before that's why its supper clean

best regards

Dana

I've followed this thread with some amazement. I was under the impression that there was no such thing as an all red 24h hand in the GMT no matter of what origin (as long as from Rolex ) and what time period.
So, I was anxiously awaiting to learn that I've been wrong about that as I've been about many things Rolex related.

It may have been that I did not understand all of Orchi's posts correctly, since his style is very refreshing but sometimes hard to comprehend.

So, were there ever any GMT's made and put on sale that were factory-fitted with those hands? Does someone maybe have a pic of that from one of the booklets or catalogues of the time showing such a thing?
Since you guys have such big collections of dials, hands, all kinda parts, all kinda paperwork and some even of some actual watches I am sure you also have something showing that.

Looking eagerly for any info. Thanx.


all the best
timo

- never mean no insult to nobody -

the point is that everybody has a take on what is and is not a bona fide Rolex part as in this case.

As for Orchi the all red 24 hour hand is a go. But for me the all red 24 hand is a no.

As with the PN Mayor dial, you have supporters on both sides..

So it is up to the collector and or dealer to do his homework in order to see where one stands on this issue or purchase.

Was my answer a balanced response as not to upset anybody?

Arthur



http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

... but no don't feel much smarter than before.

Did follow the Demasi (hope I didn't misspell that) / Mayer dial story with great excitement and the same for this one. Neither issues would apply to anything than to feed my curiousity, since for one I cannot afford and the other I don't like the look of. Guess that in itself, won't make me much of a serious collector.

In any case, either issue seems like there would be some explaining necessary when buying/selling/discussing a watch like that. That kinda sounds like the guy selling the Ferrari telling the buyer, it is loosing oil, but if he puts in enough at every stop the car will be fine. Therefore it shall not be described as broken, but rather as unique


all the best
timo

- never meaning no insult to nobody -

Arthur

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

In the Guido Mondani Rolex GMT Master book the authors document a GMT from 72/73 on page 156 that has the All Red GMT hand.

I also believe I've seen the All Red GMT hand in Rolex documentation. I will see if I can track it down.

Frank

Best regards
Orchi.

Best regards
Orchi.

Err...Buddy Arty Carlo AAKViper...
the Master collector n Master watchsmith...himself.

Until such time before Buddy Arthur is truly
convinced about the All RED 24hr GMT Hand...when more
concrete evidence could be obtained possible in the nearest
future...

Orchi shall...along with the rest of the avid
novice collectors...would enjoy some
RARE occasions to purchase the ALL Red 24hr GMT hands...
at reasonable prices...still.

But please bear in mind...the All Red 24hr GMT hand...
just won't be right on just any other 1675 GMT Master Matte Dial
watches...with the exception of MK.1 Matte...
MK.2 Matte...n possibly on MK. 3 aka "Radial Mini" Matte Dial variants...
purely in Orchi's own opinions...for it.

Thank you Buddy Arthur...for being lenient to any of Orchi's poor
manners earlier...

Best regards
Orchi.

Hi..
Just to revive this thread a little...
I just bought a 16750 Pepsi.. with a faded all red GMT hand.... my ex-rolex watchmaker says the hand is genuine and the quality of the red hand is very good with no bleeding of paint into the triangle/tritium... the tritium on all hands and the dial are matching.... with patina..
Just wondering.. anyone has seen an all red GMT hand on a 16750??
My watch is undergoing a full service.. will post pics when ready...
Thanks for your time.

Kai