GLAM (a french guy) found something interesting, that I would like to share with you.

This is a photo I took some months ago in Munich from a nice OCC (not mine, a famous guy ).
Look at the serial.


And this is a scan from Mondani:


There are very few thing that we can be sure of in vintage Rolex world.

I always thought that OCC was first and then came the SCOC, now I am a bit doubtful.

What are your thoughts???

thus later then original OCC and most probably
changed at a early service where Rolex automaticly
changed the radium Swiss dial to a harmless tritium
swiss T<25 Msr dial in transitional period. <br>
&

Mondani books are great for collectors but not
necesary a perfect back up as some small details,
like underline, are not integrated in the info...

rg.P

Over & out, now i go skiing in Espace Killy

rg.Philipp

All my world nearly fall apart on this scan :D , I feel better

So to make a litlle sum up
-59/60 OCC
-60 and after SCOC some with exclamation point in end 60/ 61 (62?)
-SCOC some with underline in 62/63

Am I wright?

HAGWE

Francois

I have seen a few SCOC dials in 5xxxxx cases some with or without an exclamation point ..

Arthur

On a very short period, both must have been produced.
But imho OCC later than SCOC must be VERY rare.

the same printing format as the OCC 6542 dial...

Err...for Orchi only that is...

- 1959/early 1960 OCC(CR) Very RARE - PCG "SWISS"

- Early 1960 onwards SCOC-CR - Exclamation-Point(RARE) in 1960/61 - PCG "SWISS"...

- Chapter Ring SCOC n Underline(RARE) in 1962/early 63 - PCG - White/Silver (Single or Double) "SWISS" or "T"

- NON-CR SCOC 1963/64 - Square-Guards - 5 minute indexes under "SWISS-T<25"... <br>
- NON-CR SCOC 1964 to 1966 - Rounded-Guards - 3 minute indexes under "SWISS-T<25"... <br>
- Matte Mk.1/2/3/4/5 etc. 1966 up...

Crossovers in rare nos. might exist between the respective...
Transitional period...

Best regards
Orchi.

Makes it more clear.
Thanks buddy orchi

François

Orchi Arthur wants to know how can you have input on early GMT's when you do not even post your earliest 1675..

It is like a spectator explaining what it feels like to drive a race car around the track by reading about it instead of experienceing it...

Orchi always does that..Orchi extrapolates conclusions without doing real research or handling or owning the watch.

Open your mind and stop that annoying Orchi and replace it with I.. It is boring after one year or so.

...last warning.

.

Arthur

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

Yes the idiot and blind watchmaker carved the serial # and missed a number under the correct numbers in order to see the #'S...But notwithstanding this an early case with correct serial 503765 #'s watch and SCOC dial. Possibly the earliest I have seen and own.

Arthur


IMG][/IMG]

IMG][/IMG]

YES, possible.

OCC seen only I.60 (seen just a couple of times II.59 SN 504mil)

but with I.60 also seen several SCOC

the one shown by Arthur seems to have the Excl Point (later dial)

am i correct Arthur ?


cheers.

so Excl Point is correct in my opinion..now the the underline as P stated is not correct for this serial #.

R which is the earliest GMT serial # you have seen?

Arthur

I Remember the latest 3 with this SN:

503XXX caseback engraved I.60 OCC dial
504XXX " " I.60 OCC dial
505XXX " " I.60 OCC dial
A friend of mine with 504XXX caseback engraved II.59 OCC Dial

My gmt has 505XXX caseback engraved I.60 OCC dial.

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]


Cheers,

Francesco

I believe that OCC and SCOC dials both can be found on early 5xxxxx GMT's..

The early 1675's in the 5xxxxx are not easy to find.. Mostly seen are predominately in the 6xxxxx range and up..So the 503xxx is a keeper.
Cheers Arthur

...for the first batch of 1675 dials but on new plates with feet (for cal. 1560 of course) before quickly switching to the "new" SCOC layout.

But as far as when the printed dials were cased up, as always I believe some overlap is possible or some few "strays" can be found later than the "accepted" range.
Best,
T.

1675..Different batches perhaps..we have seen this practice with Rolex before. I have seen to many correct SCOC dialed 5xxxxx in my opinion to rule out the OCC and SCOC as not being fitted into early 5xxxxx GMT's during the same time frame..For every one OCC dialed GMT in a 5xxxxx case I have seen a SCOC dialed GMT in a 5xxxxx case as well. Not sure of the ratio..but the OCC being a rare dial, we less of them in early 5xxxxx GMT's.



A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

Err...the VRF Archive has the supporting...
tell tale signs...n provenance...perhaps...

Earliest 4 lines..."OCC"

http://www.network54.com/Forum/539565/message/1172438982/5512--II.59%2C+4-line+%26quot%3BOCC%26quot%3B+gilt+dial--posted+by+Anonymous

Later 4 lines..."SCOC"

http://www.network54.com/Forum/539565/message/1172439102/5512--ca.+early+1960s%2C+4+line+gilt+dial--posted+by+Anonymous

Later 4 Lines..."SCOC" + Exclamation.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/539565/message/1172813484/5512--69x%2Ck+SN%2C+II.61%2C+gilt-gloss+dial--posted+by+Mark+Siegel

"So a little sum up"...for Orchi only...

"OCC" is the...1st n Earliest...
Then came "SCOC" later...

That's the way it was...perhaps.

Best regards
Orchi.

Err...the English version of Master Stefano's Exemplary article...
specifically on 1675 GMT OCC...
can be found in here...

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://stefanomazzariol.blogspot.com/search/label/Rolex%2520GMT%25201675%2520%2522OCC%2522&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dstefanomazzariol%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DF4K%26sa%3DG&rurl=translate.google.com.my&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhjoUnrtIYIVFucl0mClzPr7PqjeGA

The scans of the EARLY "DATED" Rolex brochures...
n booklets...in that article...
provide enough concrete provenance...
for Orchi that is...

Best regards
Orchi.

produce to me an early GMT from you collection..before you lecture me with other members opinions. Again "no shadow of a doubt here" is your opinion.. It is very plausible that these two dials in question were produced and fitted in early GMT's.

Orchi the dial archives are not a 100% source for research.

A

Arthur does not agree with your "OCC" 1st n Earliest...
Then came "SCOC" later... statment..I believe these dials were produced at the same time.."OCC" being the rarest version.

Arthur wants to know how early Orchi's 1675 serial #'s are? So you can add from your experance as Arthur did. Seems that you are interpolating your ideas not from experience but from what you think is correct and from what you have read..
Arthur

Err...it's ALL there in VRF Dial Archive...

RAREST 5508 4 Lines...with "OCC".

http://www.network54.com/Forum/539564/message/1232747721/5508--III.1958%2C+4-line+OCC+gilt-gloss+dial--posted+by+vincent1961


RAREST 5508 4 Lines...with "SCOC"...
came LATER...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/539564/message/1178749759/5508--763k+SN%2C+ca.+1962%2C+4-line+%26quot%3BSCOC%26quot%3B+gilt+dial--posted+by+Kahuna


"So a little sum up"...Again for Orchi only...

Best regards
Orchi.

Maybe a submitted for certification 1530 caliber for a 1962 5508..;)My opinion..here