Err...a permission has been obtained from the Mods...
for Orchi to post ONLY the pictures of these FAKEEE watch cases...
n parts...

This is so that the VRF Newcomers n members...
could be alerted to the existence of these FAKEEE "ROLEX" stuffs...
that is widely available in the relevant source from...
eBay n other internet watch markets...

Orchi suspects there are several Sellers pushing these FAKEEE stuffs
in the various internet markets...
some of the Sellers may actually be the SAME person...
operating under Different Pseudonyms...or Nicknames...

IF any Buddies need to know the DIRECT link to this source...
please send an email to Orchi...
n Orchi shall be glad to provide it...
by email only...



SO PLEASE...
BE EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS about the...

1. LONG Middle Stroke of "E"...
2. INCORRECT "G"...

between the Case Lugs...n Inside of Caseback...

The other related thread in VRF:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/thread/1269763708/TIPs+to+Spot+FAKE+551X+n+1680+Sub+watch+cases..Pls+comment..%2B%2B


Here are just some examples from PLENTY more:-

6263:




6265:




5514:




5517:





5508:




6538:





5512:



5513:





5510:





1655:




6542:





1675:





1665:





1016:




Best regards
Orchi.

This takes all the fun out of it...

It will be very hard to discern real from fake very shortly and then where will we be?

I dont know if i can disagree those are some impressive fakes the subs look pretty good too much . . . the 1675 looks very good. . . . i just about quit with them anyway . . . there is only one vintage i want a 1680 red sub and ill prob leave the vintage to others. . .

when a fake is suspected everytime one sees a Rolex being worn

Perhaps the owner should wear a badge saying I am wearing a genuine Rolex watch, if in doubt, please stop me and ask for proof. LOL

Rgds Sparky

with dad's Rolex collection?

Answer: ''Bin the lot, they're probably fake anyway''

Bin-diving could become quite lucrative. lol.

Rgds Sparky

typo

first comes the mortages fraud, the the bank fraud then the stock market fraud and now of all things the FAKEEE criminals doing the Rolex/Tudor Frankensteins, (not only these 2 brands are being Frankend) is nothing sacred in this world any more.....Its sad when honest hard working lovers of the time piece are now nervous and are looking in every notch and cranny to see if their watch is now been FAKEEED....

have fake everything else. When prices come down to earth the profit in fakes will be gone and the fun will come back to the enthusiasts. The prices never should have gotten so crazy to begin with...these are all just old watches. We can like them...but we don't need to worship them.

John Ireland

and i cant wait to get a 1675 for 2k again!!!! ahh well maybe not that low again???? Ireland your last name or where your from . . .sorry been wanting to ask!

and that name should be familiar to movie buffs, as his father was a famous actor. he was very busy, popular in westerns as well as other genres. i remember him well, as he is one of my parents' favorites.

fred

cebu city

put me on the road to Rolex. The first time I held his Date Just (two tone) I had never felt a watch that heavy. Then he went on to an 18k yg Day Date. He wore that for almost 30 years...until it was stolen from his dressing room while he was acting in a tv series. Having it stolen also took away some of the pleasure and he never replaced it, but instead wore a black metal Casio until his death in 1992. But he did love that Rolex...as now do I.

John Ireland

Any time there is a lot of money involved in the price of vintage, its bound to happen unfortunately. Thankfully trained eyes and sage advise entrusted to me by the likes of K and EK, have keep me from stepping on my peepee. Fakes have been around for ages, you can still tell the real deal from the fake stuff pretty easy

..getting better but the dials always give them away you just have to know your seller.

I want to see all those signs that time and elements leave on the cases and bracelets.
No NOS bs for me. No time capsule contents

With fakes getting better and better.... and the above examples are not even the best ones.... it's getting more and more important.

Buy the seller.
Provenance, history, service history,... first owner watches...


Best,

Bernhard

"Provenance, history, service history,... first owner watches... "

Is the only real assurance...

Sellers....are fallible even in innocence...

As a serious seller will always be sure of where he got his stuff, and he will have the financial capability to keep the buyer safe of loss, even though it will be out of his own pocket.

That's the main difference between a serious and a not so serious seller.

I would also like to add that while these cases look pseudo-passable in scans on the internet, they fail with a big F when you see them in real life. When trading the WTA and IWJG shows, junk like this is all over the place.

Morgan

http://www.tudorcollector.com

sellers get stung too...and then...do they have....say $100,000.00 spare to cover the issue on say...a 6543 if they make an honest mistake?

Just hypothetical Morgan don't get your smalls in a bundle there....

You can see where I'm coming from....

...and let's not forget the Jason incident. Virtually anybody thought he was a respectfull seller....

So I agree with you: provenance, etc is of utmost importance. Second best: "know" your seller.

Best,
Mark

Anyone would buy a 6543 without having it checked at Geneva or a top expert. Much more likely is low end subs, datejusts, 18kt day-day dates and low end Tudors. Those are the "low profile" pieces that pass the cracks, because people don't do their homework properly. (by which I mean both buyer and seller).

morgan

http://www.tudorcollector.com

sometimes irreverant though.

Rgds Sparky

Err...NOT limited to Dials...Hands...
Movement n Bezels etc etc...

1680:






1019:







TUDOR 9420:







TUDOR 7031, 7032:






TUDOR 9411/0:






Best regards
Orchi.

..tudor dials are not that expensive:(

They will fit nicely in the funnies section

But it's great to see that the fakers are still so far from the real product.

M

http://www.tudorcollector.com

Best regards
Orchi.

For your long and detail posts to let us better understand the picture more clearly. You are doing things right, sharing the wealth of information to better the community. Thank you!

...but is what you are showing here a theory or a well known fact?
It surprises me that a case can be ruled as fake based on a single manually stamped letter.
It is not that I don't appreciate your work but with all the unknowns and uncertainties with Rolex...
BR
Klaus

Even fake Pateks, Rolex 6036's & parts, it's frightening!

Not sure if I'm allowed to mention the site here....

Be very careful! many of this stuff is sold on Ebay.

Cheers, D

...to the cases shown but more the theory/fact behind the "E".
BR
Klaus

I'm not ashamed to admit seeing Orchi's post is a real eye-opener, and a reminder to be wary.

This is one for the VRF Clasics!!

Thanks for your well composed and educational post.

MW

Err...being marketed by the Seller(s)...

The actual name(s)...link n email address...
to the website(s)...
have been amended by Orchi...
IF you need to know them...
Please send Orchi an email...

Best regards
Orchi.


"FAKEEEdotcom(Coined by Orchi) offers great deals on: watch, parts and accessories in best price for any customer in the world.

Specially, We have Rolex Replacement Case and Rolex Refinished dial and parts.

New Page Customer Projects to see finished projects by our parts!

Our Email is: sale@FAKEEEdotcom(Coined by Orchi)"

"About Us

1675, 1680, 5513, 5512, 5508, 6263, 1655, 1665, California dial, Rolex, tudor, day-date, alarm, Red, Submariner, Sea-Dweller, Ranger, explorer, daytona, datejust

Whether you are a collector or just a novice,

We'll try our best to find the dream piece for you.

We sold the watches, timepieces, watch parts and accessories.

Rejuvenating, Rebuild your Rolex , Tudor wristwatch bands. Rivet, Riveted Rolex Oyster , Folded Rolex Oyster , Solid Rolex Oyster , Folded Rolex Jubilee , Solid Rolex Jubilee are our specialty !! Band Restoration Photos, Re-painting watch dials, Watch Restorations, Custom Projects, Rolex submariner bezels, Restoring 6538 Submariner, Restoring Speedking, Recently completed jobs, Customer Feedbacks, Contact Page, FOR SALE Tudor, Omega, Rolex, Complete Repolish, Bracelet Repair, Relink, Refold, Redial, Mercedes Hands

We start our timepieces business at Ebay (FAKEEESeller) since 2005,

Our office is base in ***BEEP BEEP***.

We are over 487 and 100% postive feedback in ebay power seller.

Here is the feeback from our cilent (Mar 2010):"

...so it's a fact that cases are being faked with the long "E" but does anybody know if Rolex only have used the short "E" stamp the past 50 years or so?
BR
Klaus

The markings are mde by a pantograph. This is an engraving machine that makes a small engarving from a larger "mask" with a mechanichal linkage.

Thus there are no stamps to be worn out and replaced.

This is also the reason why markings can look sloppy or even be doubble engraved, all depending of the skill off the panthograph operator.

Then of course, it is strange that rolex managed to keep the same masks/font during all these years for the case markings when other fonts and even the rolex logo comes in many different variations.

Google finds for you, or just look a little longer at the title of my response...

In my opinion, this website is selling fakes, but is at least honest about that. The problem lies with the buyers who buy from this firm, who then buy a real 5512/5513 dial here on the forum (yes they do), use a 750 usd 1520/30 movement, et voila, have a nice 5512/5513 on Ebay.
Most of the people look at the dial first to spot a fake watch, as this is the part that is faked most of the time.
If the dial , the movement, the hands and the band are 100% ok, why then question the case? And that is how it goes on Ebay with some sellers.

...before they are as good as the real ones.
BR
Klaus

Err...Caveat Emptor n Caveat Venditor...

Who would know really IF these Caliber Movements...
are FAKE or GOOD...??

Please comment...

Best regards
Orchi.


"Valjoux" Cal.72x for 6239/6263/6265 :










"ROLEX" Cal.1030 for 6538 :






"ROLEX" Cal.1560 for 1016/5512/1675 :

Best regards
Orchi.

Are there fake inhouse movements out there? I can understand if you can change a few details on a valjoux movement, but the regular 15XX, did you mean that such are also to be found now?

...there is Fake with a capital "F" and then there are genuine movements that have been serviced with aftermarket (i.e. Bestfit-style) parts. Short of sending the watch to Rolex for complete tear down and identification, I'm not sure what the average (or indeed, above-average) buyer is supposed to do about that, much less if any given seller would even be aware of the fact. And I'm not sure how much it would bother me to be honest, particularly as the reserves of genuine cal. 10xx, 15xx, etc parts dry up. Our watches must continue to live on even if Rolex will no longer come to their aid!

For example, it's very hard to find Bubbleback parts anymore. So if my watchmaker cannot find the genuine part but can manufacture the needed part to make a hypothetical BB function correctly, should I now consider the watch "FAKE"?
Don't think so but, of course, YMMV.

Otherwise, very good expose where it really counts, i.e. fake cases & dials.
Best,
T.

Err...on Clasps n link...but quite close...
n difficult for newcomers n buddies to tell...
n compare the difference...

Even present...
one can see the "Dropped Edge" on the buckle...

Best regards
Orchi.


7206 Riveted : USD1xx + FREE Shipping.








"7206" n "Expandable" Riveted: USD1xx + FREE Shipping.

As above...it might seem a stupid question. But as we know Rolex have varied manufacturing over the years and therefore there is a whole wealth of differences. How does the average service guy at Bexley know a fake case,movement,plexi,hands,bracelet or whatever from a possible real thing?

..they said they have no records of tudor watches.

and any one of those cases would be rejected if in the hand.

Rolex have been replicated for decades... but never good enough to fool the experienced.

---Perpetual Knowledge---

inexperienced continue to buy such things Roger, there will always be fakers.

If new collectors are serious about Rolex however and come to this forum before taking silly risks by buying into the unknown, posts like this, will always be a valuable source of information.

After all, this forum addresses these issues as it should and helps even semi experienced collectors who could in a moment of madness, be fooled also.

This is a classic post IMHO and should be added to become a valuable source for the inexperienced and as a reminder to us all, that we are all vulnerable as fakers become even more realisic with their wares.

memento mori .. remember you are mortal.

Rgds Sparky

Orchi, I have a collection of fakemaker addresses & would enjoy adding these vendors to my list!
Some of this stuff is scarry,some is silly & some is dangerous to the vintage collector at
large....My thx, mcotter@skbk.com Your contributions to this wonderful forum are very
appreciated & special.....My regards, Mike Cotter

1) Technology (which is already here)

2) A dealer that gets lured to the Dark Side and shows them their mistakes.

I.M.O it will only be a matter of time before both conditions are met

Steve.P

Err...after the cases might have been...
reworked a bit to make it looking used n vintage...?

Pics are excerpt from eBay...

Best regards
Orchi.


5513 Case from the same source:

in my experience, the farther we travel from Geneva, the bigger the chance of errors being made. I have seen some crazy stuff go out of Rolex HK. Aswell as US RSC.

Morgan

http://www.tudorcollector.com

that is bad indeed and perhaps if it continues, soon they'll be servicing anything that has Rolex on the dial.

A service can be lucrative after all.

Rgds Sparky

As much as I love playing the devils advocate, we both know that one of the reasons for Rolex not servicing stuff thats over 35 years old, is due to stuff getting thru the cracks.

A few examples have been posted here - i believe a texas dial PN thru RSC NY was one of them. The same goes for the HK service center. Those guys give you the little green Rolex H K receipt even if you just buy two springbars. Is it possible that the junior (rolex trained) watchmaker, who is just exchanging springbars will notice a fake caseback ? Of course it is!

Point is, that most of the serious people who deal in this stuff, are able to tell fake from real - and there are still lots of watchmakers out there who are also.

Morgan

http://www.tudorcollector.com

a tongue in cheek analysis but you are right, my watchmaker starts to shake visibly at the smell alone .. fake'fake he screams like someone demented .. lol

Rgds Sparky

but some of their appointed RSC's are not.

I accept Geneva and Bexley as Rolex themselves.

The rest are agents and fallable.

---Perpetual Knowledge---

M

http://www.tudorcollector.com

the RSC in Manila has been established for ages, owning and occupying a gorgeous building in the exclusive Makati section of the city. these guys are educated, experienced, and have "seen it all". shady dealers have known for a long time to stay far far away from them, as unlike RSC in HK & USA, they don't make mistakes...

fred

cebu city

Err...n to Orchi...this one looks familiar to the one being fitted...
on a related watch being posted in VRM...for sale.

The VRM Seller stated clearly that the watch is fitted with...
a Non-Original Rolex Dial...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1269881276/REDUC+ED-+Rolex+6538+Big+Crown+%26quot%3BJames+Bond%26quot%3B+Submariner+w-+Service+Papers+-+MUST+SELL+TODAY

[QUOTE] in VRM:
Dial is NOT original Rolex. The dial that was on it was a bad refinish job, so we replaced it with the dial you see on it now. Again, while the dial looks nice and vintage, it is NOT an original Rolex dial. I stress these because everyone who sees the watch thinks the dial is original.
[UNQUOTE]

Orchi's question:
With NO disrespect or offense meant by this...

IF that is deemed to be Non-Rolex Original...
is it allowed to be posted n sold in VRM...???

Please comment...

Best regards
Orchi.


Here's the FAKEEESeller's CLAIMS...
in the relevant website...


[QUOTE]
Rolex James Bond Submariner ref.6538 black gilt gloss dial refinished by professional with golden hand set.

With yellow lumious.

Free shipping by registes">The diameter of the dial is 27 mm, the dial feet position at 25 and 56 minute.

With yellow lumious.

Free shipping by registered airmail to United States, Canada, Asia, Japan, United Kingdom, Australia.

(Exception Europe country and South America)

If you have any question please feel free to contact : sale@FAKEEEdotcom
[UNQUOTE]

the feeling that the forum needs a Sheriff, especially as the dealer mentioned it and the forum rules say clearly "re-dials must be on original Rolex dials."

That is how the watch comes with- a relumed dial. Period.

I understand your intention but please do not act like a loose cannon.

Michael

Err...n Orchi thanks you for that IF you do so...
fairly...

Here's the Dial which appeared for sale in VRM...



Here's from the website selling FAKEEE Dial...




Here's the relevant Dial for Sub 6538 "James Bond" Big Crown...
from VRF Dial Archive...




PLEASE check n compare the overall layout of Dial n Prints format...
You should know this 4 Line OCC Dial better than Orchi...

"ROLEX"
"OYSTER PERPETUAL"
"200m = 660ft"
"SUBMARINER"
"OFFICIAL CERTIFIED"
"CHRONOMETER

n PLEASE offer your kind n frank advise...Gently...
whether Orchi is being wrong n a loose cannon...


Best regards
Orchi.

the text of the ads and does not only look at the scans- remember: An ad in VRF is not the "Playboy" with lousy pics and sophisticated articles.

In older ads of the watch the seller stated CLEARLY:

"Dial is NOT original Rolex. The dial that was on it was a bad refinish job, so we replaced it with the dial you see on it now. Again, while the dial looks nice and vintage, it is NOT an original Rolex dial."

So- to me the seller behaves absolutely correct and everybody who can read knows what he might get.

Edit: Typo

to be sold here at VRM, its a rule...........

come on man, as a newbies or a semi-collector, we do need Orchi's cannons.......targetting on the questionable watch being listed on VRM.....Do you agree.

Cheers

M

...and the seller changed the text to indicate the watch would be delivered on an original dial that was refinished. The seller made every effort to plainly state the dial situation in subsequent ads.

I could have been a horses's ass and demanded new pics but there was sincere effort on the part of the seller to explain the presence of the dial and his remedy for it. I don't believe anyone reading that ad would presume the dial on the watch was a real dial.



.

Err..."every effort" to know the watch...
n describe the watch correctly...
the efforts are off the RULE n missed target by a mile...
"No fakes of any kind, re-dials must be on original Rolex dials."
This to ALL should be clear cut...n adhered to...

PLEASE remember...
VRF/VRM is visited perhaps by more folks outside of...
the English speaking countries...
English to these many folks is NOT the 1st language...
They may need to read the forum or the market with online translator...

Furthermore...IF the Seller is new to the market...
wanting to sell or trade off only one or few watches n stuffs from his
small collection...
n once or twice the mistake was done based "innocently" on...
his or her "ignorance" to either the Rule...or knowledge of his stuffs...
this could be counted as JUST that...

BUT in this instance...
the Seller on the other hand...
is one of the well reputable n experienced veteran dealers/collectors...
in VRF n VRM...having the England as the 1st language...

"No fakes of any kind, re-dials must be on original Rolex dials."

Despite "every efforts" by the veteran VRM Seller...
it would then seem he simply missed reading n misunderstood the RULE...?

Again Orchi hopes to stress...
There is no malice or bad intention meant by this...

Best regards
Orchi.

...and read what is being said, then read again.

There's nothing wrong with the VRF advertisment. There is clear disclosure and it violates no rules.

Err...saying now the Dial is original?

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/thread/1269784311/FS-+5508%2C+6202+and+3666+all+priced+to+move+TODAY+%21+Giant+Reduction

Oh btw...the Ad also claims the case was "un-polished"...
while the Rolex service papers clearly stated that the case...
was "refinished"...

Please advise...

Best regards
Orchi.

READ WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING.

The ad was replaced with a new one that had full disclosure. The new ad violates no rule.

READ what Richard wrote:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/message/1270059834

Can also add a Gold 18Kt daytona 6263........


[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]




Be careful!!!!!


Cheers,

Francesco

if this educates new collectors against buying fakes, then it can only be a good thing in my book.

Not only does buddy Orchi's post lay it out to new collectors step by step, but in a way that is easy to understand. In my estimation, a valuable contribution.

If new collectors are not encouraged to look and question, how long will this wonderful hobby continue to have meaning.

Remember also, that fakes bankroll crime!

Rgds Sparky

Orchi this is an excellent post for all those who share this passion for vintage. Please keep up the good work and the sharing of information.