Err...this is just from Orchi's own observation...
in eBay or elsewhere...
++ news gathered from a couple of hardcore dealers...

Rates shown could be +- 1K or 2K difference...
depending on its overall conditions...
Or...+- depending on its accessories or provenance...
Or...+- subject to Buy or Sell...(willing Buyer/Seller)

Rates quoted at PAWNSHOPS: May be a lot cheaper...

The PARTY is over...
Any comments...welcomed...

Best regards
Orchi.


SS/Plastic:

1665 SD White..................... down to USD9,000
1665 DRSD Mk.4 onwards............ down to USD18,000
1019 Straight second hand......... down to USD18,000
1016 Matte........................ down to USD3,500
1016 Gilt(no CR).................. down to USD5,000
5513 Matte........................ down to USD3,500
5513 Gilt(no CR).................. down to USD5,000
5513 PCG Gilt(CR)................. down to USD10,000
5513 Gilt Explorer(No CR)......... down to ????????
5513 Gilt Explorer(CR)............ down to ????????
5513 WG........................... down to USD3,000

5512 Matte........................ down to USD3,500
5512 Gilt(no CR).................. down to USD5,000
5512 Gilt(CR)..................... down to USD11,000

1680 White........................ down to USD4,000
1680 RED feet 1st................. down to USD8,000
1680 RED meter 1st................ down to USD9,500
1655 Straight second hand......... down to USD12,000
1655 Mk.3 onwards................. down to USD10,000
1675 Matte(except Mk.3 Radial..... down to USD3,500
1675 Matte(Mini Radial)........... down to USD4,500
1675 Gilt(no CR).................. down to USD6,000
1675 PCG Gilt(CR SCOC)............ down to USD8,500
1675 PCG Gilt(CR OCC)............. down to USD11,000
1675 PCG Gilt(no CR).............. down to USD6,500

16750 Matte....................... down to USD4,000
16750 WG "DATE"................... down to USD3,000
16750 WG No "DATE"................ down to USD4,000
6542 OCC Bakelite................. down to USD25,000
6542 OCC NO Bakelite.............. down to USD10,000


SS/Tudor:

714x MC........................... down to USD8,500
7928 Sub Matte.................... down to USD2,000
7928 Sub Gilt/White............... down to USD2,500
94xx/0 Sub........................ down to USD2,800
70xx/0 Sub........................ down to USD2,800
94xxx Sub......................... down to USD2,500
79xxx Sub......................... down to USD2,500
76xxx Sub......................... down to USD2,500
79xxx Chrono Plastic.............. down to USD3,500
79xxx Chrono Glass................ down to USD2,800
94xx/0 Chrono..................... down to USD4,500


SS/Sapphire:

16800 Matte....................... down to USD3,500
16800 WG.......................... down to USD3,000
168000 WG......................... down to USD3,000
16550 WG.......................... down to USD3,500
16660 WG.......................... down to USD4,000
16660 Matte....................... down to USD5,000
16700 WG.......................... down to USD3,000
16710 WG.......................... down to USD3,000
16760 WG "DATE"................... down to USD3,500
16760 WG No "DATE"................ down to USD4,000
14270 Blackout.................... down to USD5,500
16520 Inverted 9.................. down to USD9,000
16520 Upright 9(Tritium).......... down to USD8,000
16520 4 line...................... down to USD12,500


Please feel free to add to the following:-

DRSD Patent Pending:

COMEX:

PN 2C:
PN 3C:
626X:

I agree prices are down from the fantasy prices some of these watches got to. The market dictates the price and it is what it is. Happy Hunting to all.

Being positive I believe we may see prices start to slowly increase. We have been having good economic news from Wall Street and this recovery seems to have legs.

However during the top of the market things were a little out of hand. JMHO =)
Dennis

BTW, I will take a nice 5512 for 3.5K any time.

to me Dennis. I'm going with half full.

Optimistic
Don

getting emptier than that I reckon.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/



Steve.P

if you can get watches at those prices then I will take one of each!..lol
I just am not seeing what your alluding to in the mulholland camp..times have never been better here..now i feel bad for you buddy..

Steven T. Mulholland

we are not seeing a pretty nice all the right parts Bakelite for 25K. And again a very nice DR or 1019 for 18K. Hell a nice dialed and hands MC for 8K...hummmm..I must be missing something at our watch shows.

A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

sitting in the same seller's booth for year after year with the old claim " I have too much into it" or "I bought it at the top of the market".
pretty sad. I personally will not bring the same stuff (watches) to more than two shows. usually I blow out anything that is sitting around..re: "blow-out rose"
lol!

I thought it meant something else...he-he-he..just kidding oh great master of disasters!

Steven T. Mulholland

so I guess a spot on 1665 DR is not down to 13K yet.

A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

at your prices. $$ for quality will always bring better prices. EK was the busiest man on the floor at the last IWJG show, and he told me that was a sh**ty show, had there been more quality there, even more buying and selling would have gone on. Sure PPDRSD are not bringing 1/4 mil any more, but that was rediculous anyway.

 

Saw a lot of Asians in LV with bricks of 100's freshly minted, they wanted to spend it and not take any back, to me it was NUTS for my 1st IWJG show. Hate to see what Orlando or a busy show is like

________________________
Cliffy

but not for long!

Steven T. Mulholland

but the nice vintage pieces are holding their own. I've sold (wholesale) most every vintage piece I have received as of late. Alot of my watches are sold before I can even list them in the VRM. There are alot of (low) prices on the list I would have to strongly disagree with. regards

apparently different parts of the world are subject to different price fluctuations. I am not sure of your methods of price summations on the more exotic or semi exotic watches . But depending on its accessories or provenance one can add up to 4 K plus on a watch. I must admit, some of your prices for the generic matte dialed watches might match the wholesale or spec prices for some dealers.

An example of price discrepancy would be a 1019 or 1665 DRSD in super shape for a low ball 18 K..I can not find one...at lest in the USA.

A Tudor MC or 1680 RED for a low ball 8 K in very clean and in top shape, again not in my world. Even at the IWJG shows, these prices are not felt, at lest from my observations.

Now prices based on a definitively flawed or service dial, case, caliber, missing ref or serial #'s on the more exotic watches. Maybe are factored in on some of the lower price results.

The generic main stable watches such as the 1675, 5513, white 1680, and 5512..I can maybe see a close resemblance to your price estimate.

From my observations, the DR, 1655, 1019, 1680 reds, gold gilt pointed and no crown guard 1675-5513-12-6536- 5508- 6542's are harder to pin down in a narrow price range.

For sure we are seeing a downturn in prices across the board when comparing the 2010 to 2007 prices. I am sure a reshuffling of cost of watches will happen again when the seasons change again. Some world economies are doing better then others, so we might see demand stronger in some markets.

A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

it is just not possible to put in a list or a guide.. currencies differential... strong geograophical market /weak maket... quality vs lash up... it just doesn't work... for every quality example you might find cheap, you'll see a lash up sold for a high price and that is no different than it's always been...the seasoned collector who knows where to look, has the knowledge to identify a piece and is prepared to do the leg work will always find stuff cheaper than going for retail..............One of the nicet 5513 i ever had cost me £1650 at the start of 2007 about two motnhs before the crazyness of AQ so right at ' the top', when the frenzy was on.. examples can always be found cheap, examples can always be found dear... but calculating an average to pop in a list is an impossibility.

............ but getting past that in sterling a lot of those prices look tricky to secure, a lot look perfectly acheivable, in GBP££ most look not far off what they were back in 2007/2008/2009 .. though as again we have covered numerous times before they do look a long way down in US$ dollars... but thats what happens when your currnecy is strong.

if anyone has a quality issue free drsd at $18k please email me, same goes for the 5512, for a 1655 straight hand, i'll take two issue free watches at $12k- in 2007 i found and then sold a couple of great examples serviced at GBP£10k.. in 2008 i did the same, same in 2009, same in 2010.... difference is in 2007 it was $20k... in 2008 it was $18k...in 2009 it was $16k.. last week it was $15k... all the same price here though...


it seems to me from my observations the real things that have changed in our hobby...the people buying a watch as an investment vehicle for growth are not on every corner...the people buying for passion are the people more carfeul with their money, they dont rush to buy something, they dont buy off model number, they stop and consider quality, they look all around the world to see what is available in a global market place and what advatanges they can get through currency exchange, they don't risk buying from unknown sources, they want to buy securely...take all that in to account and you'll see why lots of dealers with crap to sell and lots of e*Y traders (the clearing house of crap) see lower prices. very little of the real good pieces -from real good dealers- being sold to real good collectors, even makes it into the open to be included in a list.

virtually every good dealer i know is crying out for quality stock and selling it as fast as they get it, only few i know off who are moaning are the ones who either bought bad or at the $$$, or bought crap in the first place.


and as for it being a party... i got to say i am sure you didn't mean it the way it sounds but that doesn't read well, surely the party is about how nice/rare/interesting the watches are not how much they are worth so surely the party still goes on.

available for purchchase today.. partcicluarly

mk4 drsd $18
1655 straight $12k
5513 gilt $5k
5512 $3500....

are we missing something here?

A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

End today albeit a refinished dial for $660.00 THAT is CHEAP if it runs...which it did! 900.00 - 1000.00 would be the going rate even in the crash.

I will place my order for the 5512 Gilt NO CR for 5k Please send pics!

I will pay more for the right one!

LOL!

t

Hi Orchi,...

Indeed as most say... over here in Europe as a collector i would dream to find real nice watches at those prices.
Of course you could get lucky...

So maybe we all have to move to Asia...
And please then buy them all and share them among VRF! As i guess the list of people buying 5512 for 3500 USD is quite long...

But for me....i see strong prices. Indeed not the craziness of 2007/8... but then,... who wants that again.
When a redsub or 1655... 1665 white get's into ranges... where 95% of the collectors can't afford to buy more then 1 watch anymore. Don't forget... i am sure the DRSD + 6263 collectors are only a small group... and the Newman, Comex etc group is even much smaller.

So i am happy if prices are at a normal level.

And i see 5513's all above 3700 euro and going up to 4700 euro and selling again. All depending on condition.

Jed is 100% right.... the biggest change is, that the people buying in ahype... and knwoing that you can sell easy 2-3 month later and make a bit extra.. are gone. It ain't EASY anymore.

The passionate collectors stayed in this hobby.
And they want quality.

I went to the Munich watch fair 1 month ago with cash in my hand and a great watch to maybe change if i would find a great watch....

But on the whole show.... (from the dealers on the table... i am sure there where some nice pieces in the pocket of some dealers ... but they where BIG pieces.. i was not looking for).... the show which is surposed to be one of the biggest of the world... with the floors filled....

THER WAS NOT 1 WATCH I WOULD HAVE BOUGHT!!!
Not 1 1665, 1665,... 5513...

In 99% of the case the quality was to poor. Ugly dials,.. overpolished cases.. the last 1% asked prices that where out of normal ranges. But even for the bad quality the price for a 5513 was still 3600-3900 euro at a show.

ANd look around. I scanned so many dealer sites i know.... and i did see so many minor quality watches.


We have changed. We look for that beveled lug, the perfect gloss in a giltdial, spotless tritium,... fat case,... provenance...

When 2-3 years ago > and i know as i did also Even on a Daytona today i look for a dial with all dot's intact. Missing dots or Rolex re-lume... mhhhhhhh already.
Which means that 90-95% of the watches drop off the list and loos the potential buyers.
Our world isn't that big as we think. And which means tha with those numbers of watches.... a lot of them just don't sell. So the prices drop for the bad quality... and are still strong for the good quality.
And i see it around me from other collectors. Not only the PASSION crowd ... but people mailing me with questions.

So Orchi... if you see a real, real nice 6265 black dial for 15000 USD... please let me know!!!!
I will be such a happy man!!!!!!


Quality rules.... as it will stay SEX on your wrist for days and years to come!

I agree with you..... many "shitty" watches around at low prices...but if you want quality....
expect high prices !

Not only do I disagree with this post, but I disagree with anyone posting either overly bullish or overly bearish comments on this forum.

I highly doubt that one individual could come up with an accurate survey of so many varied models. While we can all appreciate your passion for this hobby, I think a post like this is going "Over your head" and you are opening up a can of worms that you don't want to get involved with.

A good dealer will be able to take a hit and buy and sell in any market, but I can honestly tell you that these prices for the most part are BS. I really think that this sort of post serves as a disservice to any collector or potential collector out there looking for guidance.

To nit-pick here:
I'd buy every single 16660 matte @ $5k, and every 5512 track ring @ 12k.

Also, I've never seen a 6542 SCOC, so I would revise your list.....


Just my 2 cents.


Eric

there is a fantastic one :






LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

These type of posts have no value.

---Perpetual Knowledge---

A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

But this has been dsicussed over and over yet.

one has to watch when he passes by..lol..

Arthur

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

Err...the "hobby"...??

Why there seems to be a need...
to resort to hostility or the defensive maneuvers...
n even a WARNING...?

A can of worms...?
Sincerely hopes what you have cautioned Orchi with...
there is NONE related to the trade...n business...

Someone said subsequently...
It shouldn't get to be so complicated as science...
or politics...

Sorry Orchi fails AGAIN to understand you Master Eric Ku...

Best regards
Orchi.

Come on Orchi, im sure you know better. Your analysis has some serious faults:

- Closed auctions doesn't mean anything, how many of these pieces were not bid up due to unknown sellers (+1 feedback junk sales with real scans)

- There is no differentiation on quality

- Even a Reference such as 5513 Matte has a million variations. Did it have a bracelet ? Thats 800 bux right there. Did it have a fat font or a thin font bezel ? 500 right there. Service case or original case - another 500-1000 $ difference.


Sorry buddy, but everything I am seeing in the market indicates that:

- Good stuff is commanding very nice prices - way - beyond what you listed
- Junk sells cheap like it did 5 years ago
- Price difference between eu / asia / us is minor. Less than 10%
- Super hyped models such as DRSD, 16800, etc. are WAY down from 2007, but have stabilized at their new level.


Morgan

http://www.tudorcollector.com

I think most of his prices are well below wholesale in my opinion.

A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

nt

http://www.tudorcollector.com

the dial had a tiny problem and I am not sure if it sold.
sure there are $7k MCs out there, it's just that you have to buy them for 5-6 in order to make any money, as they have problems and are not desireable...

is a widely defined term spanning over for different classes of watches.

- 703x MC (MK1 dial style, aka homeplate) Available in black or grey
- 71xx MC MK2 dial style (available in blue and black/grey)
- 94xx/0 MC MK3 dial style available in blac/grey and Blue
- 94xxx MC MK4 - Last ones predominantly black with a touch of orange

Which ones are we talking about ?

M

http://www.tudorcollector.com

The dealers wont like it because you are advertising their buying costs; or worse low balling and making them look greedy. The collectors wont agree because they don't see anywhere near these trade prices from their dealers.

Although you maybe very slightly off the mark, you're actually not too far off. I have seen decent Double reds, Whites, Milgausses & Orange explorers changing hands (for cash) between Asian dealers for around this sort of money that you talk.

Steve.P

Seriously. On the vintage market everyone is a dealer. Sure, some of us may have a website and a LLC registration because of the volume, but the old days of dealers buying for 1.000$ and selling for 2.000 is long gone.

Everyone can get into the IWJG and WTA shows. Anyone can use ebay. The only thing I see different in the "bigger" dealers is their inventory and sometimes their willingness to take risk on unproven sellers.

The only "real" dealers I see are the guys on 50.000$/month business leases selling to the uber-wealthy, and those guys could just as well be selling Ferraris or Yachts. And their customers don't read VRF.


Morgan

http://www.tudorcollector.com

I hunt for those 18 K or below spot on 1019, DR, 8K MC, and 5K gold gilt 5508. The truth of the matter is that at lest in the USA one does not come across at watch shows or dealer to dealer business at well below wholesale.

I really wish it was true. I would love to pick up another spot on 1019 or DR for under 18K.

Maybe the generic entry level watches are close to his price listing, but not the semi exotic to exotic watches from what I studied are selling well below wholesale.

A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

what you say about Geography is correct but only because of the shite currency FX thing.

A few years ago it took 43 Thai Baht to buy a single USD$. It now only takes 32. Thats a 1/3rd more buying power in this part of the world. The same kind of story against the Pound and the Euro too. But paper is just a crappy illusion which people don't really understand or comprehend. It's also completely unimportant as as you so eloquently put it once, "they are just faith notes"

Lets take a look at how things have devalued in 'real terms' by pricing a watch and comparing with a few years ago in the only TRUE currency - GOLD -

Anyone who buys in Gold as a currency (lets say $650/oz) when a S/H 1655 was priced at USD$25K it would have cost you 38.46 ounces of gold to buy that watch. Today you can buy that same 1655 for 12.05 ounces.

So forget these crappy bits of paper, when purchased in an item of true value that watch is down in VALUE by 69% in a real term value comparison. That also means for that watch that lost 69% to regain it's lost value it has to go up to by 322%. to get back where it was :-0


Of course for us serious collectors the true value is in owning and appreciating these fine things and hopefully having deep enough pockets to not care about such things as price and value changes, or get humpy when someone tries to report on it.

Always find these threads interesting to follow,

Besties Arthur



Steve

the true value is in owning and appreciating these fine things. That is spot on Steve.

LOL, this post reminds me of my day job.

[IMG][/IMG]

Human nature what can one say.


Looking forward to the day I can buy my next Paul Newman for 95% cheaper than what I paid for it.

Regards
Rene

Here is an informative blog:

http://thebuckleyreport.blogspot.com/

18k DRSD? I ll take two..one for each hand.
28k papered DRSD email me

where were you? Sold that watch at 21K Euro last week- 27930 USD, uh??????

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1265297229/

I started to be active in VRF in march so no wonder I missed your offer. I would have seen it cos I check everyday. so sad..looks perfect, and reasonably priced too at E21k

before prices will fall !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LLLLLLLLLLL00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
to be honest I'm a little bit fed up with these posts.... in the last years we have seen many....
and the world is still alive ..... prices will begin to grow again in the nexy year ( at least for
top quality watches ).
"so don't worry and love the bomb ! "
( from the movie "dr.strangelove" ).

Prices for plexi Daytona's are more then stable again.... up in my opinion....
5513's are again back on level.... find a real nice one is the problem...


And indeed.... i was happy... after last years and end of 2008 'doom-and-gloom-posts'.... it was less value oriented lately ))

Best,
B

The economy crashed, watch prices fell. The economy has maybe stabilised for now and so watches prices have done the same.

So IMO it's real simple to work out, if we pull out of this recession, return to growth (and more expansion) then it stands to reason people will start spending and watch values will rise again; I am guessing that's where you, along with most others think that we are right now. In fairness that's what they need us all to believe.

Personally I am a contrarian, I believe we are just in the eye of the same storm and there is a lot more downward pressure (risk of implosion) still to come.

The nest 18 months will be interesting for sure.

Steve..

Err...Orchi applies some averaging before coming up with that list...
AFTER taking into consideration of the possible...
MULTI-Tiers Buy/Sell prices at the different levels of source...
from the actual ex. owners of the watches...
which could be much LESS...on the same watches...

The good VRF Buddies are free to agree or disagree...

Orchi hopes the present collectors(NOT dealers) would understand this reminder...
DO NOT sell low UNNECESSARILY to others(Dealers)...

Please do your homework to check on the Seller's Prices...
of similar watches in the online markets...

THERE ARE several sincere n generous Collectors/Dealers around...
who could offer BETTER Buying prices...
for their collection or RESALE purpose.

All the best to everyone...
Have a Happy Weekend...

Best regards
Orchi.


Here is just a couple of examples:

1. 5513 PCG+CR+B/P Unpolished...

a. Small shop bought from a friend of the ex.owner...USD10K.(commission Usd500)
b. Lessor known Middleman(SEA) bought from smaller shop...USD12.5K
c. Middleman(SEA) bought from another lessor known Middleman(SEA)...USD14K.
d. Sold by Middleman(SEA) to a BIG Dealer in ASIA...USD17K.
e. BIG Dealer from USA flew(1st Class or Economy?)...
to ASIA recently to buy it at USD20K.
f. BIG Dealer flew back to sell the same watch...
at BIG watch show...n to the NEW Owner...USD25K?????


2. Tudor 7149/0 being listed just yesterday...
in VRM with Bracelet in good conditions...
Usd 9K + Shipping...by reputable Seller in Asia.

Price comparison from 2008 of similar piece n condition...Usd18K = 50% drop...
may be NOT sold yet.

How much would the Reputable Seller(Asia) paid for this watch...
on its previous Buy/Sell...?

How many Middlemen would be involved in the Buy/Sell of the same watch...?

How much the ex. owner would have sold for this watch...?

P/S:

Oh btw..."Cut n Paste" error corrected...
from one of the source of infos via email...
Sorry for the minor oversight when posting it in a haste...
because Orchi had to rush a puppy to the Vet early this morning...


?t=1270896985

But that 7149 is priced at 9k because if the dial. With a perfect dial it would be 12k

condition is everything.

M

http://www.tudorcollector.com

that was what dictates where the watch is priced at in my opinion.

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

No thanks.

Orchi, your an interesting guy but you need to know when to step away from the keyboard.



---Perpetual Knowledge---

Best regards
Orchi.

I personally have not a clue if the suggested list is correct or not. There are of course problems making a list since the no of closed deals are limited and many of the more rare items are also difficult to compare. And prices might also change differently at different parts of the world and different sellers can probably also influence the price.

But what suprises me though, is what a sensitive topic it seems to be. Would it be the same if someone had posted prices slightly too high? Do we believe that such a post can influence prices and therefore would prefer it not to be presented? I almost sense attempts to "shoot the messanger" here.......

Interesting post and replies. Although some people tire of posts like this. For some of us the differing views are informative. Thanks.

crap and very common stuff is very down. really nice top tier stuff is only down slightly, and that is if there is no buyer ready to snap it up.
Ebay is a barometer, but only to a degree. hand to hand sales are how this should be examined.
I have been holding off with a real update but as bad as it is out there, these little pucks we collect and trade are still a good place to put money, as long as you know which are right to pay up for and which are just "even money"

Err...to be shot down...(Please pardon Orchi's English...
what's the difference between Messenger n Whistle Blower...?)

Nevertheless...here are just some of the recent ones...
SOLD in eBay...

Those Over 90 days period would NOT be displayed...
by eBay...as per Orchi's shallow understanding...perhaps.

Best regards
Orchi.


Relatively Newcomer Orchi wishes to ask the experts in here
to comment...

What would be the actual Buy/Sell prices of these Rolex watches...
exchanging hands along the way...
from or between UPSTREAM...vs. DownStream...???


http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner-SS-Date-Black-168000-Vintage-watch-NR_W0QQitemZ260575521397QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item3cab82ea75

http://cgi.ebay.com/Genuine-1983-SS-Rolex-Submariner-Mens-Wrist-Watch-16800_W0QQitemZ300411404532QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item45f1ea40f4

http://cgi.ebay.com/Genuine-Vintage-Rolex-Submariner-Steel-16800-Watch_W0QQitemZ110512309770QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item19bb0c060a

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-1978-ROLEX-SUBMARINER-DATE-MENS-WATCH-1680_W0QQitemZ230454150922QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item35a823470a

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rolex-1680-Submariner_W0QQitemZ230453608879QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item35a81b01af

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-vintage-Submariner-1680-serviced-UNPOLISHED_W0QQitemZ280485542020QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item414e3db884

http://cgi.ebay.com/1972-Rolex-1680-Submariner-w-orig-Rivet-Band-w-paper_W0QQitemZ250605587926QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item3a5941cdd6

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rolex-Submariner-5513_W0QQitemZ230458115289QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item35a85fc4d9

http://cgi.ebay.com/COLLECTABLE-RARE-ROLEX-SUBMARINER-REF-5513-660FT-200m_W0QQitemZ300412498986QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item45f1faf42a

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rolex-Submariner-5513-1960s-Stainless-Steel_W0QQitemZ110514278599QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item19bb2a10c7

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROLEX-SUBMARINER-model-5513-s-n1765XXX-vintage-1964-65_W0QQitemZ110513880266QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item19bb23fcca

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-80s-ROLEX-Submariner-Ref-5513-Box-Paper_W0QQitemZ220585049740QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item335be4be8c

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner-no-date-5513-Mens-Watch_W0QQitemZ190382046802QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item2c53a77e52

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner-no-date-5513-Mens-Watch_W0QQitemZ190382046802QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item2c53a77e52

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-5513-Submariner_W0QQitemZ330418645573QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item4cee7c6a45

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROLEX-5513-Transitional-Submariner-Stainless-Mens-Watch_W0QQitemZ150426693402QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item2306212f1a


5513+Meter 1st Matte:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner-5513-Meters-First-Gorgeous-Collectible_W0QQitemZ320507915690QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item4a9fc2adaa


http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rolex-GMT-Master-1675-Pepsi-Bezel-Watch-1960s_W0QQitemZ110511079627QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item19baf940cb

http://cgi.ebay.com/Super-Nice-Rolex-GMT-Master-Ref-1675-Mans-Watch_W0QQitemZ320506460411QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item4a9fac78fb

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rolex-GMT-Master-1675-1-6-Mill-Series-Original_W0QQitemZ250596163664QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item3a58b20050

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-VINTAGE-Authentic-Original-1675-GMT-Master-NR_W0QQitemZ230452545492QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item35a80ac7d4

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROLEX-1675-GMT-MASTER-RETAILED-BY-TIFFANY-CO-PEPSI_W0QQitemZ110504371271QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item19ba92e447

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-SS-ROLEX-GMT-MASTER-MATTE-DIAL-1675-PEPSI-BEZEL_W0QQitemZ270557350297QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item3efe798999

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-GMT-Master-Model-1675-Yr-1966-Pepsi-Bezel-Vintage_W0QQitemZ200453602807QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item2eabf73df7

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rolex-1675-GMT-Master-Punched-Papers-Set-1970_W0QQitemZ190383605757QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item2c53bf47fd

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gents-Steel-Rolex-GMT-Master-Ref-16750-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ370359041598QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item563b1e7e3e

all these were under $2k in 2002-3

with so many on the market prices are ripe to correct...

Err....for less at USD21,100...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rolex-1019-Milgauss-with-Box-PUNCHED-Papers_W0QQitemZ200453051102QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item2eabeed2de


Buddy JB...
Just for an example(outside of eBay)...
How much would you have bought this similar piece for...?
if you won't mind Orchi asking...

Or...IF that might get a bit sensitive...
PLEASE KINDLY advise...

PLEASE KINDLY advise...
what would be the actual prices...
along way when these watches...were exchanging hands...
between ex. owners - MiddleMEN -
shops - dealers - Middlemen - until the new owners...
from or between...UPSTREAM vs. DownStream...???



Best regards
Orchi.

Arthur thinks you contradicted your self. So where is this 18 K 1019?

A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

Err...buy it for...

Then factor the margins made when Middlemen...
are involved...in between...
the UPStream vs. DownStream...

You would probably get less for a 1019 Straight Hand...


Best regards
Orchi.

many times I will pay less, other times more. We "wholesale" so we also sell for much less thus enabling us to offer a no hassle buyback, and not get hurt. the trouble starts when sellers "gouge" or get a buyer who is so hot they forget about "value' and then when they want to sell they think they are getting burned.
prices are down on many common and ""ordinary" pieces, but bottom line is anything that is really special will sell for a good price...

Err...a lot less in prices...

Best regards
Orchi.


Orchi is again wishing to ask in here...
what would be the actual prices...
along way when these watches...were exchanging hands...
between ex. owners - MiddleMEN -
shops - dealers - Middlemen - until the new owners...
from or between...UPSTREAM vs. DownStream...???


5513 Gilt No CR...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner-5513-Black-Gilt-Dial-Authentic-Watch_W0QQitemZ380218997302QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item5886d17a36


6542 No Bakelite...(Refinished Dial)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-GMT-MASTER-6542-VINTAGE-NO-GUARD-GILT-IVqtr-1956_W0QQitemZ170466212864QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item27b093fc00


1675 Gilt + Punched booklet...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rolex-1675-GMT-GILT-Punched-Booklet-Set-1965_W0QQitemZ200454909741QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item2eac0b2f2d

like Arthur said, the exotics are a different ballgame..They sold far above your estimations Big O..
Many variables are involved when one determines to coin a price for a certain watch model.

not at 18K
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Ref-1665-Double-Red-Seadweller-Submariner-mark-3_W0QQitemZ140397282937QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item20b0548679

how about this one..
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Explorer-II-ref-1655-orange-hand-1st-series-B-P_W0QQitemZ330418026415QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item4cee72f7af
and we have this one..
http://cgi.ebay.com/SS-ROLEX-EXPLORER-II-MCQUEEN-MENS-WATCH-B-P-1655_W0QQitemZ290417805297QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item439e4007f1
this aint going for 8K..lol
http://cgi.ebay.com/SS-ROLEX-EXPLORER-II-MCQUEEN-MENS-WATCH-B-P-1655_W0QQitemZ290417805297QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item439e4007f1

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-1680-Red-Submariner-Box-Punched-Paper_W0QQitemZ190382792331QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item2c53b2de8b

A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

Err...a lot less in prices...no?

PLEASE KINDLY advise...
what would be the actual prices...
along way when these watches...were exchanging hands...
between ex. owners - MiddleMEN -
shops - dealers - Middlemen - until the new owners...
from or between...UPSTREAM vs. DownStream...???


Best regards
Orchi.



Mk.3 DRSD: USD25.8K...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Ref-1665-Double-Red-Seadweller-Submariner-mark-3_W0QQitemZ140397282937QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item20b0548679


Mk.4 or Mk.5...SOLD for USD18.4K?
Any problem with this watch?
FAKEEE? or Good...?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Double-Red-Sea-Dweller-1665-Vintage-Watch-1970s_W0QQitemZ140394546974QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item20b02ac71e



1665 White: SOLD for USD9.2K...

Any problem with this watch...or what?


http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rolex-Sea-Dweller-1665_W0QQitemZ230457194201QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item35a851b6d9


1665 White: NOT Sold for USD10K...

http://cgi.ebay.com/1983-MENS-ROLEX-SEA-DWELLER-DATE-RARE-1665-PLASTIC_W0QQitemZ220577265155QQcmdZViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item335b6df603

nt

Are we missing something as a whole community?

A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

Err...which perhaps you have missed
reading recently...

eBay 6542 OCC Bakelite + Papers + Rivet Bracelet...
SOLD for USD23K...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170440980664


eBay 1675 PCG OCC + Papers + Bracelet...
SOLD for USD10K...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370333791998&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Did you say...eBay auctions are akin to being...
a BAROMETER...???


n for Buddy Ray...
eBay does NOT keep records over 90 days...
Please observe eBay keenly...
n you shall get what you might be asking for...

One of these days...if you happen to be in the Orient...
close to Orchi...
Orchi could introduce you to the HARDCORE dealers...
n pawnshop owners from here...
n IF you are kind...n they like you...
they might let you take a peek at their books...
how much they "bought" for 5512/5513 Matte...
then resold them elswhere...


Best regards
Orchi.

i am only round the corner from you Orchi and you do not need to introduce me anyone - you could get those 3.5K 5512 from your friend directly and i will buy them from you (as many as possible CASH is ready ) - so you could make some nice profits on top - i really mean it and i could fly over to pick up the watches too - 5513 matt & gilt also welcome with YOUR recommended price my friend !!
email me anytime !!

Err...what Orchi said in plain England...

"this is just from Orchi's own observation...
in eBay or elsewhere...
++ news gathered from a couple of hardcore dealers...

Rates shown could be +- 1K or 2K difference...
depending on its overall conditions...
Or...+- depending on its accessories or provenance...
Or...+- subject to Buy or Sell...(willing Buyer/Seller)

Rates quoted at PAWNSHOPS: May be a lot cheaper..."

"Orchi applies some averaging before coming up with that list...
AFTER taking into consideration of the possible...
MULTI-Tiers Buy/Sell prices at the different levels of source...
from the actual ex. owners of the watches...
which could be much LESS...on the same watches..."

You may again disagree with Orchi's observation n thoughts...
or you may wanna dispute this other responses...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/thread/1270920772/hey+boys%2C+all+one+has+to+do+is+look+at+the+VRM...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/message/1270930245/I+would+pay+as+little+as+you+have+posted...

Best regards
Orchi.

because he isn't agreeing with you. he is commenting on poor condition watches at wholesale prices... this is not the market average as you have presented it in your list, this is the bottom of the market.

Best regards
Orchi.

HE is not a market average, he is a WHOLESALE dealer. so he agrees with your prices as the wholesale market price for poor condition pieces...... so do we all agree proably.

again you think that prices bought by dealers at the bottom is market price ... it is NOT it is different, or do your HARDCORE dealers all work for free ?

he also ONLY says that poor quality is down, no one is arguing that it is not.

but again that is not what market average is, nor what we are at 'THE PARTY' for..

Best regards
Orchi.

because he just said that he would pay less OR more your quoted prices as a wholesaler and as 'the defintife orchi guide to rolex watch prices' seems to be based on nothing more than a few ebay sales, then that implies that wholesale and ebay results arent very far apart

If you havent realised it yet, ebay is full of crap, it is the last resort dumping ground for where unwanted stuff goes, yes now and again there is something good, usually because a seller doesnt know where else to go.. yes there are project watches for those willing to work at it..but there is no escaping that it is the bottom of the market and little more than a giant trade show for stuff with nowhere else to go.. it has to be sold at wholesale because its either got problems or has a risk attached to buying it that way....

Err...servicing...
having wrong bezel...
replacement hands...
replacement dials...
scratchy crystal...
rat tail lugs...
corroded cases...
rough movement...
worn out bracelets...
etc. etc.

NO...Orchi does not plug figures from thin air...
there's are enough show causes posted...

Orchi has other prices from other sources as well...
both locally n those from this region...
Some of these you would know as close friends here too...
but better stay anonymous...

IF you would choose to be in Indonesia or PNG...
prices there would be much less...
as compared with 2008/2007 or at its peak...

Although many won't like bad news...
these are close to the real thing...if not entirely true...

Don't shoot the messenger...
the news broadcaster...
or the whistle blower...
Orchi also said "DO NOT sell low UNNECESSARILY"...


Best regards
Orchi.

i think most know you are not speaking from any bad place or motivation... but

the question you are trying to answer.. what is the average price of a model... is an impossibe question to answer...maybe with a team of 20 researchers and worldwide data, with an agreed quality scoring standard and an agreed purchase risk standard this could be done as a mathmatical excerice... maybe, though i think even then the amswer would be out of date before it was even calculated.

to apoint yourslef as having the ability to do so....is just silly.. and a shame because you make two good and valid points that i guess some might not realise .

1. crap is down in price.

2. dealers buy stuff cheaper than they sell it.

What we all have to remember is people who are not familiar with "real" market peices and list for too much will have to reduce in order to sell their goods.
Look at VRM. there are many many people who start high and drop pricing day after day, week after week. Look at what they are selling. not exactly the "holy grail".
the market is changing, as it always does. all I can say is styles change also. in 1996-7 bubblebacks were the most sought after models. now, 10+ years later you cannot buy them cheap enough.
Now I am not saying Newmans, COMEX and MIlsubs will drop like hot potatoes. the internet and places like this are here for those who enjoy can come together and this drives and excites people, thus with all the interest/hype in certain vintage models, it is hard to pull the rug out from under. only a severe crash in the world economy can do this, and it is happening now to pieces which were not really "collectors" pieces to begin with. who in their right mine will ay $6k for a simple sub w/matte dial?
it has no legs.
gotta go play ball but I am sure this will be going on when I return...

one must take a large random sample to set forth a statistical measure in defining a price structure for specific models. O if you feel that all the prices you listed are correct for your personal empirical studies, then Arthur says so be it.

A

buddy orchi -

the MKIII looked a little funny to me and too good to be true at that price - we wont know for sure unless was bought from a VFR member or if we see it relisted at some point

the MKV comes from watch commander and usually watches are legit but again the price scares me

the 1665 that sold for 9200 i think is a correct price in this market and watch looks okay

the 1665 that didnt sell has been listed several times and i know that rolex service had to put about 1200 usd into it to fix it - if i remember seller once had a copy of the RSC on the auction and took it off because who wants to buy a watch that was a junk pile that was put back into order when they can get an all original piece for the same price

just my humble opinion

Err...one of them has asked Orchi this...

When push comes to shove...
who is talking...rooster n BS...?

Orchi has got to retire now...
Wifey is urging Orchi to bed...

Good night everyone...

Best regards
Orchi.

There are no 'average' prices any more to summerise in a price overvieuw topic any more,

That's so 2008 Orchi!

rg.P

This is pointless.

m

http://www.tudorcollector.com

requesting VRF members to "do their homework".

Non mais je rêve!?!

Err...by attempting to parade their bad mannerism...

Best regards
Orchi.

Why seeking your attention this is a bit megalo isn'it

http://orchipalar.blogspot.com/2009/05/orchi-believes-these-are-rolex-ref.html

"Orchipalar ...A Rookie Malaysian Blogger. ...A Beginner Rolex Watch Collector"

I am not taking sides here. I am not a trader nor dealer, I am simply collecting. While I am as collector wish to see the price remain strong, but I sometimes buy too which I hope the price is lower. This topic may be sensitive for some folks, but I think the reader have to take it easy on Orchi. Orchi is simply sharing the prices he has been observing in the market (let it be legitimate or ilegitimate barometer), no need to be too harsh on the comments. We have to admit that there is correction in the prices, less so on the premium items but THERE IS. Orchi has been able to furnish the transactions to back him up, although some of us refuse to admit that e**y is a legitimate barometer. But come on... we do check ebay too.. Give Orchi a break.

Orchi thank you for your input although many I have to disagree, but some are true..

attack'atacatacatacatacatacataca .. spring chicken to shitehawk in one easy lesson is unfair, a valid opinion is democracy .. you dont have to answer, let alone snipe all the time.

Rgds Sparky
typo

"IMHO" - In MY Humble Opinion are the magic words to use before
imposing your views to others like a dogma... and even more when
you started collecting Rolex watches 2 years ago!
Dont you think Sparky?

I've just been proposed another 1680 Comex, it would be in my collection
today if what Orchis sayings were true.

I started buying and collecting Rolex watches 50 years ago, although the technicalities didn't interest me then, so on this count IMHO you are wrong.

I have also had the distinction of wearing certain watches for that which they were originally intended ........... and which others can only dream about and collect.

Perhaps you should tell others as well to insert IMHO before their posts instead of singling me out for your criticism.

I remain Sir yours with regards
Sparky

.

I'm afraid I dont understand Philip and perhaps I do you an injustice here.

Can you please explain further so that I can understand what you were referring to?

Best Sparky

2 cups of tea and reading understand French in Japanese, once more around the perimeter carrying a 60lb Bergen whilst singing the National Anthem in Balinese for beginners and a very greasy sausage sandwich with pickle and strong cheese, 2 more cups of tea, 25 press-ups, 25 sit-ups and a smart blow on the back of the head with an ebony ruler, I saw the light and I now think I have a grasp of the post. Explain no further my friend, the eureka moment arrived, the penny dropped and apologies for my lack of savvy.

Best Sparky

.