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a lot of unnecessary attention

October 15 2011 at 11:28 AM
Dave Rosenberg  (no login)
from IP address 74.3.7.27

Hello all vrf members,

I am sorry my listing has been the subject of such controversy. A couple of people contacted to help clear up the confusion so I will post the pictures with more of the serial number for the watch on ebay.

I currently have the 2 watches, one of them is the watch you are all familiar with and it has no papers.

The serial number of the watch I am selling on ebay is 2,916,xxx and the watch in question is 2,919,xxx. Although now I am thinking of stopping the auction due to the negative publicity.

I should not have posted the pictures of wrong watch in the auction, but I wanted to sell the watch with the dial and hands, bezel, etc. off the other watch so this is why my auction listing is the way it is.

I appreciate if you review this post and remove the damaging content as it has no real basis and is only damaging. I wish the accusers contacted me first instead of making this anfair and public accusations.

here is the pictures of both watches and the serial number more revealed:


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket




 
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AuthorReply

tomvox1
(Login tomvox1)
VRF Dial Archive Curator
96.232.167.143

I don't undersand this:

October 15 2011, 11:32 AM 

I should not have posted the pictures of wrong watch in the auction, but I wanted to sell the watch with the dial and hands, bezel, etc. off the other watch so this is why my auction listing is the way it is.

Can you please clarify what you mean by this statement?
Thanks in advance,
T.


 
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You must be crazy
(no login)
94.136.36.246

You just shot yourself in the other foot...

October 15 2011, 11:38 AM 

you claim that the papers are a 2916XXX, yet you can still see in your ebay listing that the first for digits on the papers are 2919-

[linked image]

Clearly not the same papers, and possibly another attempt to deceive?

The question still remains that does Andrew's ex-watch now miraculously have papers?

The plot thickens, and you are not helping yourself by shooting your other foot.


    
This message has been edited by fantastictime from IP address 86.154.201.162 on Oct 15, 2011 11:42 AM


 
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Arvid
(Login conrail)
VRF Member
173.76.22.137

Wow - good eye - there does appear to be a warranty paper for 291'9' ?

October 15 2011, 11:48 AM 


 
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Philipp
(Login philippstahl)
VRF Contributing Member
84.30.37.59

Now you also clearly see the different pons machine used...

October 15 2011, 12:01 PM 

Nothing is consistent when we compare numerals of..

The miracle 2919...
[linked image]

with so called legitimate B&P freccione..
[linked image]

Hmmm, it stinks!

;-(

 
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Dave Rosenberg
(no login)
74.3.7.27

i am sorry to disagree one more time, please

October 15 2011, 12:44 PM 



You are very diligent, but this should explain the discrepancy in the partly covered number. I have a 1675 gmt with case number 2919xxxx and since both papers and I was taking pictures at the same time, I did not care which one I put under the watch.

Photobucket

 
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HWGA
(no login)
93.182.132.100

Still trying to cover-up? Here's an easy way to vindicate yourself...

October 15 2011, 3:33 PM 

Show us the FULL serial number of the GMT you mention, and show us the FULL serial number of the papers in the picture. If what you say is true you should have no problem doing this and it would quiet a lot of the vocal critics here.

 
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AAKVIPER
(Login aakviper)
71.59.72.225

The sale was not on VRF..So how exactly are VRF members..

October 15 2011, 11:49 AM 

involved in this sale? John Ireland is 100% correct, one should contact the seller and question them about it before diving into the sale.

Arthur



http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

 
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J Ali
(Login J.Ali)
98.141.191.186

Re: The sale was not on VRF..So how exactly are VRF members..

October 15 2011, 11:58 AM 

Because this man is held in high regards on VRF. And if that status is not warranted, people should know.

 
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AAKVIPER
(Login aakviper)
71.59.72.225

so you want a witch-hunt on VRF?

October 15 2011, 12:07 PM 

incidentally, people should know what exactly?
A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

 
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Arvid
(Login conrail)
VRF Member
173.76.22.137

Re: so you want a witch-hunt on VRF?

October 15 2011, 12:11 PM 

Just to chime in with my 2 cents, and not taking sides on anything, but xxx is a well respected member of the vintage Rolex world generally, of which VRF (along with TRF, ebay, TZ, other forums...) provide interested parties with access to. Folks on the other main thread have raised some interesting things with these watches. We should wait to hear from all parties to either put this to bed or press on, but there are some serious red flags raised.

Because this forum in particular is an excellent resource and "central" place for vintage Rolex folks to come, I think its helpful to air it out here - who cares where the sale took, or is taking, place.


    
This message has been edited by VintageRolexForum from IP address 24.242.198.197 on Oct 15, 2011 1:02 PM


 
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J Ali
(Login J.Ali)
98.141.191.186

?????

October 15 2011, 12:11 PM 

That they are not being defrauded or deceived.

 
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AAKVIPER
(Login aakviper)
71.59.72.225

sounds legal, would back this up on your experience?

October 15 2011, 12:20 PM 

exactly how would you prove your aforementioned accusations regarding this gentleman on VRF.

A

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/


    
This message has been edited by aakviper from IP address 71.59.72.225 on Oct 15, 2011 12:44 PM


 
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Hai
(Login buynoworbid)
166.205.138.69

'cause Mr. Rosenberg started this thread????

October 15 2011, 12:57 PM 

Look and see who started this thread!

 
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J Ali
(Login J.Ali)
98.141.191.186

You have got to be kidding me

October 15 2011, 12:01 PM 


 
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Beever.
(Login Beever.)
108.54.75.193

Seriously, this is some real Bull Sh--

October 15 2011, 12:14 PM 

The papers originally on the ebay auction clearly show the numbers as 2919XXX, they were pulled from the auction but, the above poster has resurrected them from the dead. Nice move!!

The watch in the above photo is a completely different watch, indeed it is a 2916XXX. Both of these watches have the same phoney papers but, I digress..

The watch in the auction is not the 2916XXX it is the 2919XXX

You posted a watch that had NO papers for sale on ebay WITH papers.

Any watch you show here is blowing smoke up our asses, you could show me anything you like but the watch I posted is the same watch as the one in your auction. It never had papers and now it does.

What are you gonna do when the watch in the auction sells? Are you going to ship it with the phoney papers? Ship it with no papers and violate the auction? Ship the other watch with papers and claim it to be the same?

Brother, you are so F'ed now you should just fess up. Counterfeiter is bad enough but, Counterfeiter and bad liar is twice as bad.

 
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Morgan - Chicago
(Login TudorMC)
VRF Member
76.206.235.54

Ah, and the exercise is completed by the seller...unfortunately for him it opened up

October 15 2011, 12:30 PM 

greater scrutiny.

Gotta love this forum.


 
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Derk M. Reckel
(Login Reckel)
VRF Member
95.113.52.34

so a lot of mistakes made...

October 15 2011, 1:45 PM 

regarding the photos you state: "I should not have posted the pictures of wrong watch in the auction, but I wanted to sell the watch with the dial and hands, bezel, etc. off the other watch so this is why my auction listing is the way it is."

regarding the papers you state: "I did not care which one I put under the watch."

So you get a watch, and combine dial, hands, bezel with a different complete watch's case and movement where you state you have the corresponding papers.
For the auction you post the pictures of the part spending watch, knowing, that the identifyable case is not part of the auction.

When taking photos of the watch in question to have added papers you don't take care what papers you put and mismatch them with others.

This opens a wide room for specualtion and I think just photos of all 3 watches mentioned with the 2 papers mentioned and nothing blacked out would help out of this situation.
May be not publicly posted but sent to the group of moderators to judge...

Bye,
Derk

 
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Beever.
(no login)
108.54.75.193

Derek, exactly what would that prove?

October 15 2011, 3:22 PM 

If the guy can make a set of papers for one watch, clearly he can show (fabricate) papers for 2, 3 or 10 watches. I dont doubt that he can have matching papers for the GMT as well as the 1655.

What it might show is that he actually has the watch in his possession and didnt find a picture in his archives of a similarly numbered GMT.

In the end I can photoshop you a 2011 Daytona with 1 million serial if my intention is to deceive.

Wonder why it took him hours to respond to the original question of having the wrong papers in the auction? Because he had to create a story, support it with a photo and needed to either find a correct numbered watch or photoshop one.

PS: These guys have a photo archive of watches so deep that they can find you any model with just about any numbers, or damn close.

 
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Mon
(Login vvcc630)
58.69.193.112

Discouraging

November 7 2011, 4:40 PM 

This sure is discouraging especially for newbies like me.

 
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