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Bezel insert experts again please..

March 30 2016 at 10:45 AM
RolexWatchTime  (Login RolexWatchTime)
VRF Moderator
from IP address 99.67.238.110

I have almost zero doubt but you guys are demi gods.

6538

Had some glue on the back.

I've got it snapped in but will have to also add some glue for safety.

Customer's piece. When he got it from his dad there weren't any reproduction inserts...but I've never had one in person.

[linked image]

[linked image]

 
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AuthorReply

Francesco
(Login darkner-imperator)
VRF Member
79.24.36.238

Looks like good to me ;)

March 30 2016, 5:25 PM 

Its for sell ? wink.gif


Cheers,

Francesco


    
This message has been edited by darkner-imperator from IP address 79.24.36.238 on Mar 30, 2016 5:27 PM


 
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JohnR
(Login Linesiders)
VRF Member
108.12.233.239

Agree - superb!

March 30 2016, 5:27 PM 


 
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Fernando
(Login morafa4)
190.186.118.195

+2

March 30 2016, 6:14 PM 

And stellar condition too!

 
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RolexWatchTime
(Login RolexWatchTime)
VRF Moderator
99.67.238.110

Thanks guys!

March 30 2016, 9:15 PM 

I offered money on this watch 5 years ago when another watchmaker had it. I was wondering what happened to it the other day and presto it shows up to be serviced with me.

Dial is refinished a zillion years ago...but is actually "gilt" not printed. It's weird...I can see where it says SWISS under the black paint at the bottom...but the 4 lines are just horrible....

It's like they used the original to make the new....very odd.

Now it's crazed and crackled and pitted...

Anyway...I don't think I can buy the watch and certainly the bezel is not for sale. The insert is so good you could buy an NOS bezel ring and have one of the best around.

:-/

oh well.


 
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Philipp
(Login p.e.stahl)
VRF Contributing Member
87.67.19.143

Would it be possible you show us the rest of the Big Crown?....

March 31 2016, 2:23 AM 

I'm busy working on a article about rare vintage Rolex that has lost its originality during a necessary "factory service".

In most cases the dial, hands and or the bezel insert got swapped. I already have several examples but would like to see your:

"I can see where it says SWISS under the black paint at the bottom...but the 4 lines are just horrible...."

Many thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Philipp

 
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RolexWatchTime
(Login RolexWatchTime)
VRF Moderator
99.67.238.110

Hi Philipp, This watch...

March 31 2016, 11:54 AM 

reportedly was given to this individual's father by someone aeons ago.

I want to say something here with utmost and all due respect. No offense meant to anyone.

Watches in 1965 were watches. It was worth $50.00 maybe.

Dials were refinished if they looked bad. Radium dials OFTEN looked bad for reasons we all are aware of.

Whilst I realize everyone's quest for the perfect museum barn find, you simply have to be a little realistic maybe Phillip.

In 1958 these weren't issued as limited edition collector's pieces in special boxes with a host of accoutrements and kept in safes as such. Collector's items didn't exist in 1958. It was just a watch, and it was treated like any other watch by

independent watch repairers and decades of tradition and that was not and is not a criminal offense.

This man had NO idea what he had. He was almost literally without words when I told him the honest possible value of this watch and I couldn't even bring myself to mention in exact dollars what a perfect example with original dial and hands might bring. It was like a scene from Antiques Roadshow. The man is in his 70's likely.

He plans to leave the watch to his son.

I am only here to try and bring it to the best possible working order and sympathetic refurbishment as he does wear it every day and it stopped running properly.

The insert was glued in by the last person to work on it so it would not be lost. I probably will have to do that as well but I will try and do a better job. The bezel was frozen to the case. It turns now.

I am recommending strongly that he let me obtain an aftermarket bezel and insert for his daily wear and that we put this one away for safekeeping due to it's extreme value and risk of possible loss due to lack of proper adherence of the insert to the bezel ring. The insert alone is worth more than the entire watch was

in 2000. If I can convince him to do that I will lightly super glue the insert as that is easily removed and perhaps someone with a stronger desire later can source a nice original bezel that will sufficiently hold the insert.

I was very surprised to see a gilt refinished dial. Mostly they are "printed". this one is NOT printed.

It often pains me greatly of late, to see the condescension and disdain constantly coming for watches that have been otherwise treated normally in the field for 60 + years,and being portrayed as road fill compared to the holy grail pieces that the elite wealthy crowd promote, proliferate and speculate on.

Furthermore imho an effort to find original parts where they have been changed and put them back into a watch that will most benefit from the restoration is also not a criminal offense.

If you have an otherwise extremely nice rare automobile, save for an unsalvageable quarter panel...does it not behoove one to find a proper vintage and condition panel from an otherwise useless car that is damaged beyond repair or an NOS panel and install it rendering the auto whole again?

I think while the quest for original pieces has definite validity, the over emphasis on this and the ski slope nose effect on pieces that have not had the perfect life is undermining the enjoyment for many. Is the quest for and disappointment in the lack of "holy grail" ruining the fraternity and otherwise pleasantry of mutual enthusiasm for Rolex watches? Something to think about. Just my humble opinion. To each his own.

This watch is just this man's watch. He doesn't care if a collector likes it or not.

Here are some further photos of the watch. Please don't use these without express permission. It is not my watch and the images of it are really not for further use with respect to the owner.

It is very hard to capture the SWISS at 6:00 but it is definitely there and S W I S S with a loupe.

[linked image]

[linked image]
[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]








 
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SingaporeanWatchBaron
(Login singaporeanwatchbaron)
VRF Member
103.252.202.196

Super good read. I wholeheartedly agree with this view. Thank you for that sir!

March 31 2016, 12:23 PM 

♚ SingaporeanWatchBaron ♚

 
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Lou
(Login seve1945)
VRF Member
76.1.171.187

A very Kool Sub., was not a "closet queen" . It's too

March 31 2016, 4:03 PM 

bad that so many of the so- called all original ones after
purchase by ????? go into the closet. !!!!

 
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Philipp
(Login p.e.stahl)
VRF Contributing Member
87.67.19.143

Many thanks! This is exactly what I mean..............

March 31 2016, 1:02 PM 

As you might now i've been hunting down quite a lot of Big Crowns so i'm all aware about the fact that these rare vintage Rolex back in the days where not as special as they are now.

So that exactly the reason why I want to write about all those great iconic Rolex that have been serviced and then many of them got "destroyed" for collectors means, like yours you're repairing.

You see it shows it's extremely difficult to find a all original example as generally it's rare to find any big crown but it's really exceptional to find one thats still has all original parts.

Fact that these grail tool watches have been used but have not been serviced, or at least got the dial, hands or bezel insert got swapped is explaining collectors it's become hopeless to find one. I agree it's up to each personal taste to collect what you want but I like to find the impossible so maybe when you show your guys some of my 4 Line Big Crown Submariners, he allows me to use his pictures for my report, which would be cool! Let me know!

Cheers,
Philipp

4 liner as tropical should be wink.gif

[linked image]

full set, including OCC, warranty, invoice etc..

[linked image]

&

Got this on by VRF...

[linked image]

In case you missed it, great story over here:http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/message/1413320829/The+Desert+Big+Crown+6538+OCC...

Cheers and thanks again for tuning in!

Philipp

 
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Petrovich
(Login 19615512)
99.192.83.215

Good Form Sir...

March 31 2016, 2:24 PM 

A watch owned by an unpretentious gentleman, to be left to his son...priceless.

 
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Sam
(Login idahowatchdude)
VRF Member
96.18.6.153

Very well said, Tommy! [nt]

April 1 2016, 8:08 AM 


 
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keith c
(Login kacomess)
VRF Member
75.164.137.131

Agree entirely

April 1 2016, 5:06 PM 

Your assessment is entirely congruent with my own. I haven't bought a vintage watch in several years due to the now stratospheric prices and religious-relic status accorded to them. If I can't wear it and use it, I don't want it.

KAC

 
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Ben
(Login Lamone)
67.82.190.84

Great post. I agree...

April 3 2016, 6:21 AM 

... Back then watches were just watches. "Dials were refinished if they looked bad. Radium dials OFTEN looked bad for reasons we all are aware of."

 
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James C
(Login jamestemroot)
223.27.162.39

What a great post!

April 4 2016, 10:08 PM 

Love the perspective here.

 
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rob c
(Login arguscanis)
75.67.179.227

6538 redial pics

April 6 2016, 10:43 AM 

some photos you may find interesting.
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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Dave McD
(Login davemcdus)
VRF Member
98.113.40.149

Thanks Tommy...

April 1 2016, 10:09 AM 

I agree with you 100%. Thanks for writing that.

Sadly, too often in my life financial speculation has horned in on the things I love to have around me. I won't go so far as to say it ruins these things, but when the love of the thing for itself alone is equaled or surpassed by an acquisitive attitude based on it's value as a commodity, it changes the tone for sure.

I'd happily drive a dented '66 911 or play a 62 Strat with a repaired headstock.


    
This message has been edited by davemcdus from IP address 98.113.40.149 on Apr 1, 2016 10:10 AM


 
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RolexWatchTime
(Login RolexWatchTime)
VRF Moderator
99.67.238.110

Life is a strange navigation of choices.

April 1 2016, 11:42 AM 

In 1980 when I was on the uphill slope of hope thinking I had made it in the music business before realizing in my naivety that I was in line to be completely taken advantage of by people I thought were my closest friends (a long subject for a book), I was and always had been an auto enthusiast.

My dream car was an early 60's Ferrari 250 GT. I used to take Auto Week magazine and I read the classifieds. The cars were selling for about 35k. I thought damn...that's almost doable if things go like they seem to be going. I'll have the house paid for in a year or so and I can get one. Then the ugliness of reality

reared its head. I was out of a gig and had a mortgage. I'd never owed anybody money in my life. I was at a point in my career at age 25 where I had made it too big to be comfortable going back down the ladder (though I did subsequently find that whoring yourself out as a drummer is much easier and faster way at

25 to earn a living than manual labour) and I was a bit too off the radar with confidence broken by others to go after gigs I should have. I did manage to get on another lift going up but

it wasn't as quick of a ride or the same tier commercially. In the mean time I had taken to working in auto restoration. My father and I had been buying and restoring 65 66 Ford Mustangs for over a decade and I was well versed in those cars. I was driving around in Hertz Shelby's...GT 500KR's and the like all the time

for my boss. During the mini recession post Austin real estate boom doggle of the early 80's these were slow moving cars. I passed one of the Hertz's for 8k....he couldn't give it away.

Any of these I could have bought for under 10k any day. But 10k was unobtanium...when you are losing money each week. I turned down a 65 Shelby GT350 one of 525 made from a friend for $5000.00 because it had rusty trunk panels. The rest of the car was solid and had all documentation. Any of those cars are

100k + now.

So as the second run of the career panned out well...the price of the Ferrari was now 100k. You see the grail is often just out of reach....

Watches...I remember thinking the 40k was a ridiculous price to pay for a 6541 Milgauss. I always wanted one. I'll never get one now. The only way I might is to build one as a project. This is true with so many watches. 6538. I could have bought any one I wanted when I first got in to actually collecting

beyond my one bubble back for way under 5k. I couldn't imagine spending that kind of money for a watch.

I have owned some cool watches. I still own some. Finances often dictate the coming and going. We aren't all independently wealthy beyond imagination. Most of us here are blessed because we can own and enjoy some form of a vintage Rolex.

Everyone wants the best they can get, but the class division that has been coming of late is disturbing. If someone has unlimited funds and they have an NOS Milgauss 6541 I'm very happy for them. WOW! Awesome watch!

The underlying concept that, hypothetically if I have a 6541 Milgauss, that I had to find a slightly imperfect original dial for (what would be an amazing feat in and of itself) and that I decided rather than living with the chamfers polished off I had the case professionally re-lapped and I have a later bracelet. that the

watch is deemed crap and should be avoided at all costs is an increasingly regrettable train of thought that is souring many people on the hobby and creating a pandemonium of newbie parrot snobs that really have only imbibed and regurgitated someone else's opinion.

The Ferrari is now 38 Million dollars.

Somebody loan me a dime.

My actual Ferrari lol!

[linked image]

Real Ferrari

[linked image]


Photo borrowed from the web



    
This message has been edited by RolexWatchTime from IP address 99.67.238.110 on Apr 1, 2016 12:00 PM


 
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Lou
(Login seve1945)
VRF Member
76.1.171.187

Well said as usual Tommy !!!!!!!!

April 1 2016, 3:20 PM 


 
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fatboyharris
(Login fatboyharris)
VRF Member
151.225.67.85

Mere mortals have to live in the real world

April 3 2016, 2:02 AM 

Hi Tommy,


Two excellent postings which many can relate to and have common experiences whether it be around cars, houses, watches or women.


I remember my father in the 60's coming home from a car auction, he unfortunately caught up in the moment and encouraged by my grandfather to get the auction going put in a maiden bid and as it turns out the only bid of £40 for RR Phantom 3. It was great fun going out on Sundays in the RR as it had oceans of room in the back for us to play, had a crude intercom tube to annoy my father as he drove in spite the glass division and the ostrich covered seats held your colouring books in place. It drank fuel and oil like it was going out of fashion and blew blue smoke all the time, but my Dad kept it for a few years, just for the fun of it. It was the only RR on our streret LOL! but the Jag E type next door but one had all of us drooling as we walked past it every day, he must have got pissed off with the finger prints all over his windows as we pressed to see the instrumentation and speedo MPH readings every day.


I find in life the things that are really worth having and treasured are those that you have to strive and work for, that effort seems to add an extra level of satisfaction when you have really had to strive to achieve it.It doesn't matter if its not perfect, if its got a few knocks or signs of use, its simple yours and if you have the roof over your head paid for.........no-one can take it away from you.

Whilst I say each to their own, I do find that many supposed original watches d are not totally original many do not operate to their original manufacturing specification.Servicing and repairs along the way are part of the history of the piece which try to keep a watch functioning as it should as a time piece.

All the best
regards

John



    
This message has been edited by fatboyharris from IP address 151.225.67.85 on Apr 3, 2016 12:19 PM


 
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