I see that the final decision has come down in the
'Metric Martyrs' case. The Lords having refused to reconsider, the decision that EU law supersedes British
law stands. Hence it would seem that you have lost the
battle. What do you foresee should be done?

It seems to me that, to uphold your purpose, the only possibility is to be in favor of withdrawal from the EU and the ability of the British Parliament to decide any issue for itself, including weights and measures.

I feel also that this is bad news for Americans. If England falls to the spread of metric, can we be far behind?

By the way, would it be possible to avoid the accidental posting of anonymous messages by tying one posting name to each user, given the current requirement to register?

Andrew Usher

QU: "It would seem that you have lost the battle. What do you foresee should be done?"

ANS: BWMA is supporting the Metric Martyrs appeal to the European Court of Human Rights under Articles 6 and 10. Article 6 requires a fair trial, Article 10 relates to free speech.

QU: "To uphold your purpose, the only possibility is to be in favor of withdrawal from the EU and the ability of the British Parliament to decide...weights and measures".

ANS: BWMA initially required only that the rule of law be upheld in Britain. The significance of the judges' verdict is not that EC law is higher than UK law (it must be as Britain is bound by international treaty) but that Parliament is no longer part of the decision making process. EC directives no longer need Parliamentary consent.

So, the next move on the political front is to repeal or amend the EC directive. However, EC directives work like a ratchet; once passed, they are almost impossible to repeal. Although BWMA could support withdrawal from the EU, some of our members support EU membership, and we do not want to be bracketed with the "Eurosceptic" movement. Before making this decision, we would probably need to demonstrate that change was impossible from within. It may also require a change to BWMA's constitution.

QU: "I feel also that this is bad news for Americans. If England falls to the spread of metric, can we be far behind?"

ANS: The US system of government is different to that of the EC. We are not too concerned, although we do encourage support for Americans for Customary Weight and Measure.

QU: "Would it be possible to avoid the accidental posting of anonymous messages".

ANS: I've been unable to find such a facility. The Anonymous messages occur rarely, and people often own up to them.

Thank you for responding promptly.

So you have one more chance with the EC? It seems to me that it would be unlikely if they heard the case, without, of course, knowing the intricacies of that particular legal system. Does BWMA count on winning there?

I am aware that the US is not directly affected by European policies, but I have always thought of the 'English-speaking world' and I have a hard time seeing the US standing alone, especially as almost everyone here believes that we should go metric.

Have you considered why the Imperial system has suffered such a dramatic loss between 1914 and the present, as it seemed so strong? I think it is just d*** pitiful.

Andrew, you sound a little depressed. In all fairness, what should we do? Throw in the towel? Hey, why not let's kill ourselves as, afterall, we'll all be dead eventuallly anyway. Now, Andrew, obviously I am not trying to become some kind of comedian here, but I would like to know what you would do. And why are you so depressed? It isn't over until just after someone mentions a cliche about rather large women singing songs something something.

Bryan, I think you overreacted. We are, after all, only talking about weights and measures - not exactly an issue even I would kill myself over. As for what we should do, I do not know; my question was an attempt to find out. I am pessimistic about this issue because I have seen SI advancing everywhere since its inception and I see nothing stopping it; I will not lie to myself and pretend that Imperial (or inch-pound) will take over.

And how about what you would do?

Andrew Usher

I find this comment interesting:

"Although BWMA could support withdrawal from the EU, some of our members support EU membership, and we do not want to be bracketed with the "Eurosceptic" movement."

The UKIP make the same mistake in reverse. Their stance over metrication alienates potential pro-metric supporters.

QU: Does BWMA count on winning there [the European Court]?

ANS: Well, we should have won in Sunderland but Judge Morgan failed to apply the 1985 Act. We should have also won at the Divisional Court, but Lord Justice Laws also failed to apply the Act (although for difference reasons).

Because of Laws' reasoning (the creation of a hierachy of acts), Laws certified a question that we could take to the House of Lords (regarding the extent to which the 1972 Act could impliedly be repealed). Going to the Lords should have been a certainty and we were surprised when the meeting was called last month to hear a summary of the arguments. After 15 minute's consideration, the three Law Lords denied the Appeal to the House of Lords.

In response to your question, by rights, we should be confident of winning but, on practical experience, we cannot afford to be complacent.

This campaign will be won ultimately in the political arena, not the courts.

Well, I for one am planning on fighting "metrication" until hell freezes over, and then I'll fight on the ice. There are many others who will fight it not because they care about who's better or which has more validity; they'll fight it because its not what they grew up with. Until you can program one generation not to teach it to the next, you'll still get the same answer to the question "How tall are you?" x'xx". At least, that's my theory.

Units do fall out of use, so someone must fail to mention them at some point.

RE: "UKIP's stance on metrication alienates potential pro-metric supporters".

REPLY: How very true. There are millions of people who are totally convinced that Britain should no longer be a member of the Eurepoan Union - but say they just can't put a cross on the ballot paper for UKIP because the Party still obstinately thinks that the British public should be free to choose what measurements they prefer, without being coerced


RE: "It would need a program to convert one generation from passing on their use of weights and measures to the next generation..." [I paraphrase slightly]

REPLY: They're working on it. In the civil service, in schools, on the BBC, at the Meteorological Office, at the Ordnance Survey etc. BBC Chief Political Correspondent Andrew Marr (officially unbiased despite being a Labour supporter for years along with his mates Gavyn Davies and Greg Dyke) recently opined in the "Independent" that he thought repression and coercion were justified in order to change behaviour - an opinion that would no doubt be supported by many posters on this forum

"BBC Chief Political Correspondent Andrew Marr (officially unbiased despite being a Labour supporter for years along with his mates Gavyn Davies and Greg Dyke) recently opined in the "Independent" that he thought repression and coercion were justified in order to change behaviour -"
Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin would be proud.

Don't forget Romano Prodi and Dim dusseldorf (or whatever his name is!)