Not quite sure how I stumbled across this website, but just thought I'd add a post.

Does the BWMA really think that it is possible to preserve imperial measures for ever? Sure, we can drag our feet and make the changeover drag on for decades, whereas other countries managed it in a few years, but surely no-one can be in any doubt that eventually Britain will be completely metric.

So why waste everyones time and the governments money by delaying the inevitable? Of course imperial measures won't be lost from everyday speech for a long time to come, but that should be the only place for them now. To persist indefinately with a mixture of two systems is utterly ridiculous.

I think it is a complete embarassment to our great country, that we can't make a proper changeover to metric. It simply shows how weak our sense of national identity is, that we feel we have to cling on to something like the imperial system to keep our Britishness. We should be fighting to keep the things that really matter instead.

I believe they call them "trolls" in net-speak.

>>> "Does the BWMA really think that it is possible to preserve imperial measures for ever?

Our purpose is to preserve the element of choice. Whether imperial lasts forever depends on whether people want to use it. We believe that, based on the strict merits of the two systems, the imperial system will outlast the metric system. This is for a range of reasons, including ease of use, rational units, and logical divisions.

With respect, that is not your aim. The aim of the BWMA is to promote the use of an outdated and increasingly unofficial system.

Notions of 'choice' are a convenient add-on; the BWMA did not oppose mandatory use of the imperial system prior to 1967 nor does it currently suppport the repeal of all weights and measures law which stops freedom of choice.

"Re: objective is to preserve the freedom of choice"

having been educated only in metric, as has anyone under the age of about 40 (?) should I not have the right to see roadsigns in the only measurements I have ever been taught? Of course I know roughly how far a yard, mile etc is, but I would be far more comfortable with m/km. And as for height/width restriction signs I don't take much notice as I have never driven a vehicle other than a car, but if I was driving a high vehicle and came across a height restriction sign in feet/inches, I wouldn't have a clue whether I could fit under the bridge. I am sure this would be the case for most young people (I'm 30 by the way) Yards are easy to understand because they are virtually the same as metres, so there is no problem - whether you say 200yds down the road, or 200m down the road is just a figure of speech.

I accept that many people prefer imperial measurements, but in the interests of safety surely the measurement should be used that is understood by the majority of people

<<
Imperial will outlast the metric system...
This is for a range of reasons, including ease of use, rational units, and logical divisions.
>>

Dream on.

What on earth is logical about a 'system' with things like 14 lbs to stone.

Ah! He wasn't strictly a troll!

"having been educated only in metric, as has anyone under the age of about 40 (?) "

WRONG ! And showing your age! Imperial was re-introduced in the early 90's for various reasons, most of which you will dislike!

"should I not have the right to see roadsigns in the only measurements I have ever been taught? "

Ask someone the age of 12 or so how fast their dad's car can go - be ready for a shock.

[interjection: Do you actually *LIVE* in the UK, Andy?]

"and came across a height restriction sign in feet/inches, I wouldn't have a clue whether I could fit under the bridge"

LOL !

"I accept that many people prefer imperial measurements"

"Many" is an understatement btw.
P.S. I'm roughly your age and I find your post amusingly bizzare.

I'm looking forward to another one, perhaps denoting that "nobody under the age of 40 understands pounds and ounces" or something.

Classic stuff this

[rubs hands]

<<
"having been educated only in metric, as has anyone under the age of about 40 (?) "

WRONG ! And showing your age! Imperial was re-introduced in the early 90's for various reasons, most of which you will dislike!
>>

I left school a couple of years ago and as far as I know, having done maths, chemistry and biology, there was no imperial on the syllabus. For mechanics questions in maths, km/h were used as well as m/s. In fact the only time I remember using imperial measurements was for conversions IMPERIAL TO METRIC. For example, a speed might have been given as 50 miles per hour and we had to convert it to m/s in order to perform a calculation of some type.

BTW, I also understand metres rather than feet on road signs. For example, which is easier: 15 ft or 4.5 metres? Oh, and why not 5 yds instead of 15 ft.

SteveH is referring to the primary school syllabus, which includes *brief* references to imperial measurements, not because they are a good thing but because the cultural position has made it necessary.

As far as a sign goes, IMO 15 feet is a big number and more difficult to visualise than 4.5 metres. This is contrary to one of the 'benefits' of the imperial system which is that "six ounces of cheese actually sounds like some cheese, unlike 170g which is just some meaningless big number".

OK, here you go Steve..

First of all, I didn't realise that imperial was being taught again - good idea though, as its clearly going to be around for a while longer.

"Ask someone the age of 12 or so how fast their dad's car can go - be ready for a shock."

I certainly would be amazed if the kid gave the answer in km/h. Give me some credit. Virtually everyone (any age) in Britain is used to mph, because thats what we use.

"nobody under the age of 40 understands pounds and ounces"

well, I don't think many people do, ask a few random people how many ounces in a pound - you might be in for a shock there!

"and came across a height restriction sign in feet/inches, I wouldn't have a clue whether I could fit under the bridge"

I think you're seriously underestimating the number of people for whom this would be a problem. Just because people use feet/inches for heights of people, doesn't mean you can easily visualise longer distances in feet.

I think many people might use the term "feet" but when it comes to actually visualising the distance would struggle. For example I was round at a friends house the other day, and he had been telling me that he's got a 30foot garden. When I got there his garden was at least 30m long. The term "foot" may be more widely used in the english language, but when it comes to understanding the distance, a lot of people haven't got a clue. No I didn't bring this up with my friend, I'm not that sad!

"ask a few random people how many ounces in a pound - you might be in for a shock there! "

Ask any overweight female teenager ideally what weight they'd like to lose - I can assure you that they won't use grammes. They will also equate half a stone with 7 pounds with no issues. Also anyone who uses the kitchen scales at home is likely to use ounces. Now I realise that I will be flame grilled by the metric fundamentalists here because, indeed, they will not - but I am purely talking about ordinary people. Personally I could work in both, but I've settled on imperial.

"Just because people use feet/inches for heights of people, doesn't mean you can easily visualise longer distances in feet"

Again, believe me, the lorries in this internationally known huge firm that I work for are stamped in feet/in.
Also if you said "and there's nelson on top of his 300ft column" you'd getter a better response than the metre equiv. This is also the reason why even politically correct radio 1 will have the news say "he fell 200ft to his death" (please no-one tell me its because 200ft "sounds" big and newsworthy).

I think the mention of "why not use yards" was aired. In short we in the UK tend to use yards for distance and feet/in for height. Here's a poss (IMHO) reason why: look at the 3-2-1 marker boards on a motorway - the entire distance is 300yards, however it does not look very long looked at laterally. You'd probably find it weird imagining that its almost 1000ft - ie take that relatively short looking 300yds length that you next see as your whizzing down the motorway and put it upright - you are left with a height that is technically almost as tall as an official minimum mountain height! It's usage (yds vs feet) I believe dictate our visual scale.

End of sermon!

Some GCSE stuff - note that coversion is taught BOTH ways.

Even the BBC has to adhere to curricula requirements!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/maths/shape/measuresrev3.shtml

Anti-fraction fascists (AFF's) are gonna hate that last post!

"Also anyone who uses the kitchen scales at home is likely to use ounces. Now I realise that I will be flame grilled by the metric fundamentalists here because, indeed, they will not - but I am purely talking about ordinary people. Personally I could work in both, but I've settled on imperial."

My younger brother uses metric quantities when reading recipes. There is a simple reason why: that is how they are given in the book.

"There is a simple reason why: that is how they are given in the book"

Correction: "*THAT* book"

If you buy a set of kitchen scales that use the balance with dish on one side and loose weights on the other they come only with imperial weights. You can send off for metric ones using an order form provided in the box, however.

<<
If you buy a set of kitchen scales that use the balance with dish on one side and loose weights on the other they come only with imperial weights. You can send off for metric ones using an order form provided in the box, however.
>>

If there were free choice, the weights woudl either be separate (and the same price!) or two sets of weights would be included in the box.

"If you buy a set of kitchen scales that use the balance with dish on one side and loose weights on the other they come only with imperial weights. You can send off for metric ones using an order form provided in the box, however."

Correction: "*THAT* set of kitchen scales"

"If there were free choice, the weights woudl either be separate (and the same price!) or two sets of weights would be included in the box."

If BWMA had its way there would be some iron ore and a welding kit in the box!

All the scales had imperial only sets with them.

Although you did have the:-


*C*H*O*I*C*E*

to send off for the foreign set if you felt you needed to use them.

SteveH over-uses this word.

Suggest he reads a few other posts where the viablity and sincerity of this are challenged.

<<
to send off for the foreign set if you felt you needed to use them.
>>

How much would they cost? For starters, there is teh cost of the stamp, presumably there is the cosat of postage and packing and almost certainly the cost of the weights themselves.

As a special gift to ARM for your mile-ennium let me tell you that you better start ammending your figures- BACKWARDS!
Have had the recent pleasure of spending a day in a busy British park owned by Her very "imperial" Majesty herself. All signs ( many which had been butchered by vigilantes) are now looking flash in metre distances and all traces of glue and carbunkles removed. Oops, except for one, which doesn't say m for metre, it says " 1 km "
happy Millenium, 'ARMless.

ARM: Get to it chaps!

We can't keep having mile-enniums! We'll run out of champagne!

look forward to the day all road signs get changed (hope it is in my lifetime) what are you gonna do? sabotage all of them?

you should all be ashamed of yourselves, you think you are standing up for your country, but really you are letting it down.

When that metrication happens, the 'armies' of ARM should all be arrested and have the book thrown at them for their dangerous activities.

Then of course we would apparently have the right to destroy all imperial signs which we saw.

"look forward to the day all road signs get changed (hope it is in my lifetime)"

Who do you think you are? Noah? (LOL)


Seriously though, why on earth do we get this spineless ultra-loudmouthed minority wanting to rejoice at something that almost no-one in the UK wants?
It's a weird situation - almost masochistic.
I'd love to introduce these sort of people to something called a "peer group".

It's a shame really, these people resist the natural urge to get a life.

While I'll go out with my chums tonight for a pint or eight they'll be agonising over how they can get a beer without saying some awful imperial word!

No matter though, you can still find out an offlicence that will sell you a 440ml (mL, etc) can from the fridge (ask for it by name if you want). You can then take the can home and drink it with your best mate!

(get ready for some stuff on "25ml" of spirits folks! Like that's how we ask for it!)


ROTFL!

I certainly will be going out for a few pints. what the hell is wrong with calling 568ml of beer a pint? if it becomes half a litre sometime in the future, why not still call it a pint? its part of our culture, going down the pub for a half litre hasn't got quite the same ring to it

Do you remember the bit when I said "get a life"?

Anyhoo - off for that gallon of cider now....

<ARM: Get to it chaps!>

The Amazing Steve does it again. The *C*H*O*I*CE*, implimented by employees of Her Majesty's govt to put signs in a public park used by hundreds of thousands of visitors to our land and equally as many children who swim, run races, build etc in metric to be able to quickly judge distances, yet again to be threatened with attack by rabid-europhobes!
Strange that bwma allows such provocations and threats to be published on this site, but handy evidence to have taken note of and warn the appropriate authourites ( ie, Her Maj's employees, not "jackbooted nazis' from Brussels", [again]) of intended vandalism. Hope the same doesn't happen with our Olympic bid when you lot try to make us look even more ridiculous for the world to see as they try to make their way around a Britain which runs races in metres but uses ancient measure on its streets and roads. Too funny for words.
Enjoy your gallon of cider, Steve. Where DO you buy that by the way, in gallons I mean?
Glad you're cooking in imperial. Must be fun converting all those recipes from every tv show in Britain and all the magazines, unless you can find one which still puts the equivilents in brackets, or find dated Delia re-runs ( you got to wonder about a man who is enamored with an old duck like Delia when Nigella has other guys flocking to the kitchen.
( Tell us about your mother, Steve)
Speaking of flocks, do you force your girlfriend to cook in imperial too? or does the clippety clop of her heels on the tiles drive you mad when you are watching Clwb Rygbi on SC4?
Thankfully my glass of red come in mls.

<<
Seriously though, why on earth do we get this spineless ultra-loudmouthed minority wanting to rejoice at something that almost no-one in the UK wants?
>>

SteveH is becoming increasingly frustrated at the opposition to his narrow intolerant point of view.

He becomes less articulate and irrational every day.

He is determined to bully the pro-metrics off this forum.

So why don't we leave him to it folks?

He'd be much happier listening to himself.

re: "All signs in one of Her Majesty's public parks now looking flash in metres..."

Not for long.

Council of ARM

Beware ARM.

It could be a trap!

You'll be wasting your time ARM. Look what happened at the Tower of London when you changed the signs. They were changed back immediately!

<<
"All signs in one of Her Majesty's public parks now looking flash in metres..."
>>

<<
You'll be wasting your time ARM. Look what happened at the Tower of London when you changed the signs.
>>

With any luck you might be sent to the Tower and ordered to do community service - reinstating Her Majesty's signs to their original condition.

Hi Boys! Wonder if the poster with info about the km sign in park might like to drop me an email so we can discuss this further? You may have read my postings earlier as you seem to have made comment along similar lines ( thought only my sense of humour went down that road!) bwma did contact me long ago to see if I would register to post, but have been too busy and feel this process is well along already. However I do check the site alot for info and have just noticed I can post here without log-in. Hi STEVE, how are you, Babe?
Might drop back soon to see what abuse I get and await the Bennetist Brigade raiding my home and dragging me off to be burned for heresy and treason..Fine British institution thta..Whatever happened to it? I hardly recognise this country anymore. The real Metric MArtyr-Hari. :)

I reckon the ARM campaign could be a good thing in the long run. The more signs they vandalise, the quicker the legislation making metric signs illegal will be changed. Once that is finally done the idiots can be arrested

Hear, hear.

I was going to post under lots of different names to look all "popular" from the pro-imperial front, but I'll leave that to the pro-metric brigade (ROTFL!)

Nice to see the metric-matahari ("imperial users are child abusers") chick back! See folks! I was right! (chuckle)

I'd like to respond to some other oddities and funnies that delighted me when I came back this morning.

First, I still think "anonymous" is an overated posting name!

But anyhoo, let me answer your concerns!

"public park used by hundreds of thousands of visitors to our land"

Yup, like American Visitors, and like British visitors. That is why we should cater for those people who by-in-large use imperial. As in "really" use.

"threatened with attack by rabid-europhobes"

What does "europhobe" mean? Do you mean "eu-phobe"? or "euro-sceptic"? Tell me something, am I anti-european? I'd love to hear your view on my viewpoint on "Europe". While you're at it perhaps you can tell me the difference between "EU" and "Europe"?

"make us look even more ridiculous for the world "

Do you honestly believe that the average Italian would actually think that way? Do you honestly think that the average Polish chap will laugh at our signs? Or that the average American will bemusingly say "er, what's a mile"?

"Too funny for words"

Hmmm, strange sense of humour me thinks!

"Where DO you buy that by the way, in gallons I mean"

Once I have drunk 8 pints of cider I will have bought and consumed 8 pints - its not rocket science!

"Glad you're cooking in imperial"

There's more to life than searching down those papers, mags and books that have metric quantities in brackets just to point and shout "There! Britain is Metric!"

Although I have heard that nigella annoys the hell out of professional chefs like Worrall tomkinson who does everything in imperial! Oh, the mirth!

"Tell us about your mother, Steve"

What would you like to know about my mother, precisely? Sounds like an odd, and somewhat disturbing, request....

"do you force your girlfriend to cook in imperial too"

Er, now you wish to talk about my girlfriend! Desist - you strange little man!

"does the clippety clop of her heels on the tiles drive you mad when you are watching Clwb Rygbi on SC4"

Ah! I see! The plot has been lost! Fancy arguing the points about the argument rather than falsely assuming that my other 'arf is Welsh?


"Thankfully my glass of red come in mls"

The correct anotation would be "Thankfully my glass of red comes in mL". Please study the system you puport to represent! (Oh, and I'd ask for a "large/small glass" if I were you otherwise people would presume you worked in the "banking" industry if you get my drift!).

Now to "parking meter man"

"SteveH is becoming increasingly frustrated at the opposition to his narrow intolerant point of view"

Oh well what a pity never mind.

"He is determined to bully the pro-metrics off this forum."

Hmm, where do I go on this one?

well

1) I am not anti-metric, I am pro-metric, pro-imperial, pro-choice with a sprinkle of common sense!
2) You say bully? Take a look at these posts - you will notice some people figthing to preserve something worth preserving and you will notice some people just "fighting".
3) Why on earth would I want people to leave the board? What fun would that be? I absoultely love arguing here! I class the metric chaps into two "types":
1) Those who see the benefit of metric and argue its points
2) Those who hate imperial and just attack imperial at any opportunity using absurd arguments to prove they are right.

For example - "Ross"/"Martin" are grp (1) where as "Metre man"/"Matahari" are grp (2). The difference to my approach? Well I enjoy arguing with those in group (1) whereas I simply *enjoy* those in group (2)!

You'll also notice that those in group 1 post with their real names whereas those in group 2 hide behind some daft name that they hope will wind up "pro-choicers"

However it does look like Anon became Andy!

Dear Steve,

I read your last heart-felt dissertation with interest.

Need to mention a few things.

<<
1) I am not anti-metric, I am pro-metric, pro-imperial, pro-choice with a sprinkle of common sense!
>>

No one can be seriously pro-metric and pro-imperial.

Any true pro-metric will tell you that if you mix it with non-metric (and hence totally incompatible units) then many of the advantages of the metric system are lost.

The idea of choice between metric and non-metric is complete nonsense.

There is no such thing as common sense in dual/mutiple measures.

<<
2) You say bully? Take a look at these posts - you will notice some people figthing to preserve something worth preserving and you will notice some people just "fighting".
>>

Clearly you don't realise just how agressive and insulting your posts are. So many people have complained about you either directly or by implication. You obviously have the skin of a rhinocerous.

<<
3) Why on earth would I want people to leave the board? What fun would that be? I absoultely love arguing here! I class the metric chaps into two "types":...
<<

Yes got it taped haven't you. You are purely reactionary based on pre-conceived ideas about pro-metrics.

So convince us Steve. Why should any pro-metrics bother with you?

"No one can be seriously pro-metric and pro-imperial."

This is the proof if anyone needed it! Are you seriously saying that I cannot choose to use imperial of metric whenever the convenience factor allows? Are you honestly saying that I cannot choose mm (that's "millimetres" btw) because I find it convenient for very small things but then, say, cut a piece of wood to a foot long? Study your quote to really know how absurd it is! If I were not pro-metric (thus presumably anti-metric) am I meant to simply ignore someone who mentions "metres" because I can only be "pro-imperial"? Is there mass histeria whenever I get in my car that's almost 7 foot wide with a 2.3 litre engine? You need to face the fact that you are totally comfortable with how long a foot is while I am more than capable of recognising the length of a metre. What we CHOOSE to use at execution time is based on an implicit convenience factor that's built into the human mind.

I wouldn't mix the two -naturally - that's just a poor excuse for attempting to not understand the argument - who in their right mind would say "yeah, its about 2 foot 4 cm long"? However you could say that the pice of would was 2 millimetres thick and six foot long - are you honestly saying you could not visualise the piece of wood from that?

"The idea of choice between metric and non-metric is complete nonsense"

I grant you witn more intelligence to really believe that!

"Clearly you don't realise just how agressive and insulting your posts are"

I don't wish to sound "higher than thou" but I've been posting here for years whereas you recently started here. Your initial posts were, shall we say, incredibly patronising with a whiff of an inbuilt superiority complex. You didnt argue the case, you simply tried to show how stupid people are for prferring imperial. The moderator is here to stop any insultive or offensive stuff (although I appreciate his/her leniency even if it means being called a child abuser!). I suggest you go back and look at your original posts.

"So convince us Steve. Why should any pro-metrics bother with you"

That is a misplaced "us" as you will see if you check the history of banter that I've had with many many people of metric group (1) and metric group (2).

Check out the witty to-and-fro-ing between me and:

Conrad
Ralf
Ross
Martin
Pippage


then look at the history of other people that have long gone (on both sides!)

And then re-read your stuff.

Steveh wrote: "That is a misplaced "us" as you will see if you check the history of banter that I've had with many many people of metric group (1) and metric group (2).

Check out the witty to-and-fro-ing between me and:

Conrad
Ralf
Ross
Martin
Pippage"

You really couldn't live without us, do you Steveh ? ;-)

Not quite, but lets just say that life wouldn't be as entertaining when I'm not not doing work.

No that wasn't a typo

"No one can be seriously pro-metric and pro-imperial."

Totally agree that describing a piece of wood as 2mm thick and 6ft long is fine and would be understood by everyone. There is no equivalent of mm in imperial just as there is no equivalent of feet in metric.

In normal conversation there is no problem with mixing metric and imperial. I can't believe anyone has a problem with this. It still happens in places like Australia where some people still give their heights in feet etc.

No-one can force anyone to use certain measurements in everyday speech, but officially there should be consistency and one system only. This is a pretty basic responsibility of a government and not a violation of our freedom like some people seem to think.

The situation we have in Britain is ridiculous and I believe that we are the only country using (officially) a mixture of the 2 systems. The US is still imperial, everyone uses it, everyone understands it, so no problem. Ireland is in a similar situation to Britain, but with one important difference - there are plans to complete the metrication process (i.e dates set when road signs will be changed) whereas in Britain we have no plans to ever complete the process.

"The situation we have in Britain is ridiculous and I believe that we are the only country using (officially) a mixture of the 2 systems."

True.

"Ireland is in a similar situation to Britain, but with one important difference - there are plans to complete the metrication process (i.e dates set when road signs will be changed)"

Really? Do you know what they are?

"The US is still imperial, everyone uses it"

How many times have I been told that "the two liter coke bottles are at the end counter" etc whilst asking for a "bottle of coke" in US stores? Plenty!

The US is in the same nice state as us, only they "lean" more toward imperial (custom).

What is the equivalent to a 2 litre bottle in imperial / customary units? Also, in USA what volume do cans of soft drinks come in? They are 330ml in UK.

Just some info from the US...all items in grocery stores are marked in imperial first except, generally, the following:

Soda bottles (2 liters) - even though cans are 12 fl. oz
Alcoholic beverages - usually 750 milliliters I think
Some bottles of water (half liter, 1 liter, etc.), while some are 20 fl.oz.
Some pouches of drinks are 200 milliliters, usually sold in 10-packs for a total of 2 liters
medicines/vitamins, content always labeled in milligrams or micrograms or grams
nutrition information is always in grams or milligrams (fat content, etc.)

That's all I can think of. Everything else in a typical grocery store will be English first, metric alongside in parenthesis. For fruits/vegetables/meat that are weighed at the counter, no sight of metric anywhere (scales give pounds to the nearset hundrehth). I've been keeping my eyes peeled recently, but I may have missed a couple.

Bud wrote
<<
For fruits/vegetables/meat that are weighed at the counter, no sight of metric anywhere (scales give pounds to the nearset hundrehth)
>>

In other words, a bastardised metric system.

Ross

Re: Ireland

Almost all distance signs are already in km (have been gradually replaced over the last 20years or so) A number of dates have been set for the changing of speed limits, but then put off again. Think the current plans are by the end of 2004.

The Irish aren't bothered at all about the change - they have a strong sense of national identity and don't feel that their identity is threatened by metrication or adopting the euro. Don't think anyone in Australia, NZ, South Africa or anywhere else was bothered either. Why is it only us who make such a fuss? I put it down to a weak sense of national identity

"The Irish aren't bothered at all about the change - they have a strong sense of national identity and don't feel that their identity is threatened by metrication or adopting the euro. Don't think anyone in Australia, NZ, South Africa or anywhere else was bothered either. Why is it only us who make such a fuss? I put it down to a weak sense of national identity"

I would agree with that.

Are the dates set in law or are they merely the 'intention' of the Government?

<<
Don't think anyone in Australia, NZ, South Africa or anywhere else was bothered either
>>

To a certain degree, metrication was seen in these countries as dumping some of the baggage of colonialism.

South Africa, which had seen a very bitter republican referendum a few years earlier, saw decimalisation and metrication as the way forward whether Britain did so or not.

<<
For fruits/vegetables/meat that are weighed at the counter, no sight of metric anywhere (scales give pounds to the nearset hundrehth)
In other words, a bastardised metric system.
>>

No, actually, it's simply an example of using the system in a manner most convenient. While pounds can be divided fractionally, they can also be divided decimally just as easily as the kg.
If a soda bottle says "half liter", is that a "bastardised" version of the English system?

It's quite interesting that the US decimalise the lb to 2 dp.

Do they do this with any other customary units?

Depends what you mean by "they". I have seen decimalized English units often. For example,

1. car odometers give the distance traveled to the nearest tenth of a mile
2. ounces are almost always divided decimally (drams are unheard of)
3. At the gas (petrol) pump, the amount you have pumped is given in gallons divided decimally

In the case of the grocery stores, dividing the pound decimally is much better than using ounces, because you can multiply the price by the weight easier. For example, if you buy .75 lb at 99 cents/lb, you can figure the cost (or the computer can) easier than if it said 8 oz at 99 cents/lb.

And no, the above paragraph can in NO way be interpreted as an argument in favor of metric, because the pound can be divided decimally just as well as the kilo can.

Bud wrote
<<
If a soda bottle says "half liter", is that a "bastardised" version of the English system?
>>

Yes.

I have never seen "half liter" or "half litre" on any commodity,not have I seen "1/2 litre", but I have seen "0.5 litre". But then, although I have been to over 20 different countries, I have never been to the US.

"500ml" seems like entirely acceptable notation.

I have seen 1/2 litre once on a beer can. BTW, dividing pounds into decimals seems a much easier system than using ounces too. I still prefer the kilo but dividing the pound into decimals would be less confusing.

" The Irish aren't bothered at all about the change "

Very true - this is why all the privately owned butchers and g/grocers in Dublin use pounds 'n' ounces exclusively - I guess its cos they don't have officials from Sunderland living there!

BTW - I've seen 1/2 metre, 1/2 litre etc in lots of places. Believe me you pick these things up when you naturally overlook the countless references to imperial.

Soda bottles in the US don't say "half liter" but that is how people refer to them in speech. Is that any different?

<<
Soda bottles in the US don't say "half liter" but that is how people refer to them in speech. Is that any different?
>>

Yes. In particular, if somebody whose homwe language was not English heard the word "half litre" they might not understand it, but the text "500 ml" is international.

Do you know what?
I've not heard anyone ask for anything in mL.

Even wine bottles tend to be "normal" or "large" !

I was at a "high performance coaching course" on Wednesday (think "David Brent" to get an idea of the format).

At one point a lady had to sit in a chair with her back towards us and throw paper balls into a bucket behind her. First she had to do it with no help, then with one of the rest of the group saying "left - right - more - less" and then with one of the rest of the group giving approx distance.

The volunteer said "shall we use metric or imperial?"

You need to believe me that with my opinion I forced my mouth to stay closed to hear what people said!

"What, Inches or cm?" said one. "Who on earth uses cm?" said another. A south african girl said "I know cms!".

I thought you might like that one, Martin!

P.S. No-one in the group was over 40 and it was mainly professional IT folk (apart from two)

Reminds me of a Saturday morning children's show on in my home a few weeks back. The studio audience was screaming out the heights of various celebrities in a raucous competition. All celebs heights were guessed in cm. When the right one was guessed, the true height was shown (in cm) of each of these people. As none of the children were shouting anything but metric measure, Steve, your little boy with his rod in hand to catch his "pounds fish" in his "feet water" would have been a distinct LOSER in the world he is now dealing with.

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The volunteer said "shall we use metric or imperial?"

You need to believe me that with my opinion I forced my mouth to stay closed to hear what people said!
>>

What? You mean that you the great pro-imperial/pro-metricist had an opinion on the matter?