Back from Ibiza!
It was over 100F every day there, so no moaning about it being 100F for just one day y'hear?

Anyway it seems Ibiza caters for a lot of UK visitors thus you will find booze sold by the pint.
On one ocassion I got a "pint" that looked a bit small - it looked like 500ml. I bought another "pint" after and then tried an experiment of pouring its contents into the other glass. Guess what? I was left with an ounce or two in my other glass. On further questioning I was told that the first glass used was not a real pint and was given it mistakingly as it was a German specialised beer glass. I was given a free half pint.
On further questioning it was found out that the glasses are shipped from a company on the mainland on which the box says "568mL/ 20oz (1 UK pint)"

This does NOT make ibiza an imperial island but this post will almost certainly get some posters here flustered!

MArtin will also get annoyed and probably claim that I'm making up the fact that some street signs had "200 mts" instead of the beloved "roolz is roolz" "200 m" as laid down by the big SI governing body.

He'll also say that I was "seeing things" when I saw stuff with "200 gms" instead of "200 g".

Still - one thing is for certain - I *left* my PC got in a plane at 34000ft travelled over 1000 miles and actually *went* to Ibiza.

And the tour rep informed us that the Radio One stage was "literally 50 yards from the hotel"

One good thing about the Euro is that you don't have to madly go out and spend your last coins and notes before returning home since you're bound to soon visit another european country who decided to damage their ecnomies by adopting the euro.

Maybe it was another case of 'here's some weirdo who measures his drinks in a foreign system, let's shut him up', or whatever it was!

I was in Mallorca a couple of weeks ago and I noticed "mts" rather than "m" for metres. Doesn't bother me. As far as i'm concerned they're hardly likely to cause confusion. I noticed that beer is sold in a variety of sizes depending on which bar you go to - 20cl, 25cl, 33cl, 40cl, 50cl. These were the five sizes I noticed.

The beer glasses there are also very different depending on where you go. I'm not saying scrap the pint. If bars want to sell in pints, that's their choice. But it seems in Spain, bars have a lot more freedom to choose in what measure they sell their beer.

m or mts - Who cares?

A lot of the imperialists seem to think that just because metric is used in science, it has to be used as such in everyday life.

"Maybe it was another case of 'here's some weirdo who measures his drinks in a foreign system, let's shut him up', or whatever it was!"

Sounds like you've never set foot on Ibiza!

LOL!

I have actually, what I mean is that when you condemned Martin for saying he had been given short measure, but happened to use the metric system, you gave him a similar response to the one above.

Now that you have met the same problem but used the imperial system, your actions are entirely acceptable.

It was a form of 'joke'!

I got my pint in the end!

Anyhoo - it only came up coz the bar we were sitting on had a table with a leg too short, my g/friend's pint decided to empty its (full) contents over me when the table was leant on by myself.

It would have been excusable if I was on my eighth! So they decided it wasn't my fault and I got a free one!

Nice people the ibizans (i've been told, - all I met were brits working for pennies in bars etc)

>>>>>>>>>>>>And the tour rep informed us that the Radio One stage was "literally 50 yards from the hotel"


Did you measure it to see for sure? How do you know that the tour rep didn't just change the word metres to yards for your sake? How often is that done, where a distance in metres is converted to yards just by changing the name? Like 200 m becomes 200 yards?

Or like asking for a pound and getting 500 g. Not a true conversion, but an acceptable substitute.

<<
How often is that done, where a distance in metres is converted to yards just by changing the name?
>>

Or, even worse, the word "yards" is just added on. I read once in an American newspaper something like : "the police said that the incident happened only about five meters (yards) away."

One can always tell when reading the American Press and seeing yards that the original unit was metres. The reason being, except for football, Americans don't use yards. They use feet.

it was quite literally 50yds

mind you -that was some time ago now.

Hey folks:

Note how some new posters are posting here?

These are the ones that said they couldn't post here, that they were banned (as they mentioned on another site).

Be wary of suspicious "facts" - that's my tip!

Oh, and welcome aboard

"And the tour rep informed us that the Radio One stage was "literally 50 yards from the hotel" "

This is one case where I'd prefer 50m to 50 yards! 50km or preferably 50 mi. would be even better!

...not a fan then?

;)

>>>>>it was quite literally 50yds

mind you -that was some time ago now.




So, you actually got out a tape measure and measured to see that it was exactly 50 yards and not 50 m, or even something else?

In your mind, there is no possible way that the person who told you 50 yards would tell someone else, maybe in speaking Spanish, it was 50 m?

To most people who are bi-measurable, the difference between 50 m and 50 yards is insignificant and the two words are used interchangably in English

>>>So, you actually got out a tape measure and measured to see that it was exactly 50 yards and not 50 m, or even something else?<<<

Which answer would you like me to give you in order for you to be "right"?

>>In your mind, there is no possible way that the person who told you 50 yards would tell someone else, maybe in speaking Spanish, it was 50 m?<<

I would have thought that if that same person spoke to a Spaniard then he would talk in metres. Your point?

"To most people who are bi-measurable, the difference between 50 m and 50 yards is insignificant and the two words are used interchangably in English"

Most people who are "bi-measureable" would already KNOW the big difference in safety by the time you get to 300yds compared to 300mts! (300yds = the distance to a slip road turn off - I think you call them "ramps")

SteveH wrote

<<
300yds = the distance to a slip road turn off
>>

The TSRGD 2002 makes no reference to the count-down markers on motorways. Some are placed at 100m intervals, others at 100yd intervals. The car passenger can sometimes identify one from the other by checkign whether or not the distance between the countdoen markers and teh 100m location markers is constant (in which case they are at 100m intervals) or decreasing (in which case they they are at 100yd intervals).

BTW, the corresponding signs in Germany have thre, two and one strip as in the UK, but also the lettering "300m", "200m" and "100m". Probably a good idea for the UK!

The word "yard" could almost be the english word for "metre". I have noticed people who would normally use metric units say "yards" in conversation. The word yard is simply more ingrained in the english language than metre. Unless you are measuring something precisely the words are interchangable.

Look at football and rugby - When you talk about football you use yards, when you talk about rugby metres. The distances talked about are not exact (unless talking about the 6 yard box or 22 metre line)
If you say "a 20 metre pass" in rugby and a "20 yard pass" in football you are talking about the same distance.

<<<Most people who are "bi-measureable" would already KNOW the big difference in safety by the time you get to 300yds compared to 300mts! (300yds = the distance to a slip road turn off - I think you call them "ramps") >>>

Virtually no-one would be able to tell the differnce while driving between 300y and 300m

(the deliberate mistakes in abbreviations are a bit childish, but work both ways.)

<<
Americans don't use yards. They use feet.
>>

Really? Do they use feet on all roadsigns as opposed to yards? Very confusing!

Richard: "Really? Do they use feet on all roadsigns as opposed to yards? Very confusing!"

Yes. On U.S. roads you'll see signs such as "Men working 500 feet" or "Lane ends 300 ft."

Confusing? No. Just different to U.K. practice.

"BTW, the corresponding signs in Germany have thre, two and one strip as in the UK, but also the lettering "300m", "200m" and "100m". Probably a good idea for the UK!"

Erm - that's one hell of a countdown! Imagine: First one in london, the next in Birmingham ....etc.


"Virtually no-one would be able to tell the differnce while driving between 300y and 300m the deliberate (mistakes in abbreviations are a bit childish, but work both ways.)"

Except that you shot yourself in the foot - 300 yotta what? ym? yg?

Metric, boy, metric!!!
(learn it - I had too!!)







"

<<<Really? Do they use feet on all roadsigns as opposed to yards? Very confusing!>>>

It is indeed. When I drove there for the first time last year and saw signs such as 'Turning 1000ft' it really threw me, and I had to do a conversion before I had the slightest idea whether to slam on my brakes or carry on for a while..

I'm not for one minute pretending I don't know how far a foot is, but 1000 of them is hard to visualise when you're not used to it!

<<<Except that you shot yourself in the foot - 300 yotta what? ym? yg?>>>

Sorry don't quite follow..

Is 300y ok then?

divide by three and it'd be just like driving your car on a UK road.

""Men working 500 feet" or "Lane ends 300 ft."

Confusing?"

Yes, actually. As BWMA would say, these are 'meaningless three figure numbers'.

Knowing something is 1000 ft away sounds very weird, but one will quickly become used to it.

Much like metric distances.

Researchers have done studies and found most people comprehend numbers between 1 and 1000. After 1000, comprehension falls off. For this reason metric prefixes above kilo and below milli are in groups of thousands. When the numbers get too big, then switch the prefix.

Another area where big numbers is used is airplane altitudes. 33 000 feet is hard to imagine. When you think of it as 10 km, it becomes understandable. A distance of 10 000 m is easier to comprehend then 10 000 feet, because one can instantly see that 10 000 m is 10 km. The mind can scale the number instantly. With 10 000 feet, one must do conversions. The time and frustrations make it difficult.

This is one of the reasons that metric is easier.

Euric: "For this reason metric prefixes above kilo and below milli are in groups of thousands. When the numbers get too big, then switch the prefix."

A valid point, but people do not always automatically switch to the next prefix. How many Europeans going on a long journey would start talking about 3.5 megameters, for example, instead of 3500km? Familiarity with the kilometer in everyday, short distances, results in it being used for larger distances as well.

Euric: "A distance of 10 000 m is easier to comprehend then 10 000 feet, because one can instantly see that 10 000 m is 10 km. The mind can scale the number instantly. With 10 000 feet, one must do conversions."

I can visualize 10,000 ft. without any difficulty. Just think of it as a little under 2 miles.

PaulEOS: "I can visualize 10,000 ft. without any difficulty. Just think of it as a little under 2 miles"

YOU may be able to visualise 10,000 ft, but as you have seen yourself when talking to those children, only very few people know imperial conversion factors. If you would do the same "survey" on the Continent, *EVERYBODY* would be able to tell you straight away how many metres there are in a kilometre, how many centimetres in a metre, how how many millimetres there are in a centimetre, how many millilitres and centilitres there are in a litre and how many grammes in a kilogramme. Moreover, they would also add that 1 litre of water weighs 1 kilogramme.

Other conversions however, would be a problem viz those that involve decigrammes, decilitres, hectogrammes, hectometres, decagrammes, decalitres,...

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make, is that on the Continent *EVERYBODY* from the age of 10 knows the conversion factors between the basic units (=the main unit, milli-, centi- and kilo-).

This proves that the metric system is the perfect system for the man in the street. Nobody ever forgets the conversion factors, since they are sooooooooo simple.

"This proves that the metric system is the perfect system for the man in the street"

Hence the reason why its really taken off in the UK!

[smirk]

even after almost 40yrs

[broader smirk]

Euric - car to tell us why, in europe, they commonly have signs saying "2000m"? "3000m?" (in ref to your "1000" post)

Oh sorry! I forgot! You haven't actually *been* there have you?

SteveH wrote

<<
Euric - car to tell us why, in europe, they commonly have signs saying "2000m"? "3000m?" (in ref to your "1000" post)
>>

In *some* parts of EUrope only - other parts still use archaic units like miles and stones. (The latter is a quote from a Spainsh colleague that I had while woirking in Germany).

In Italy, there is a sign at the entrance to every tunnel giving the tunnel's length in metres (Italy has about 2000 road tunnels). The shortest tunnel that I saw was 62m, the longest 17000m. Most tunnels are less than 1000m, a few longer than 2000m while the tunnels that are longer than 10000m can be counted on the fingers of one hand. In such circumstances I have no problem with th every long tunnels havign their lengths given in metres.

The old severn bridge is about 2 miles long.

Just thought you might like to be "irritated" by that!

P.S. Ask 5000 people for directions in the UK and see how many mention the work "km"!!!

Just thought you might like to be "irritated" by that too!

"Hence the reason why its really taken off in the UK!"

Mainly to do with our general reluctance to change and fear of being seen as pro-EU.

.....rhymes with "moluscs"

PaulEOS: "I can visualize 10,000 ft. without any difficulty. Just think of it as a little under 2 miles"

YOU may be able to visualise 10,000 ft, but as you have seen yourself when talking to those children, only very few people know imperial conversion factors. If you would do the same "survey" on the Continent, *EVERYBODY* would be able to tell you straight away how many metres there are in a kilometre, how many centimetres in a metre, how how many millimetres there are in a centimetre, how many millilitres and centilitres there are in a litre and how many grammes in a kilogramme. Moreover, they would also add that 1 litre of water weighs 1 kilogramme.

Other conversions however, would be a problem viz those that involve decigrammes, decilitres, hectogrammes, hectometres, decagrammes, decalitres,...

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make, is that on the Continent *EVERYBODY* from the age of 10 knows the conversion factors between the basic units (=the main unit, milli-, centi- and kilo-).

This proves that the metric system is the perfect system for the man in the street. Nobody ever forgets the conversion factors, since they are sooooooooo simple.

******* Very true! The imperialists go out of their way to know all the details of imperial and then make it appear that if they do it, so does everyone else.

Conrad, I don't understand why the metric vs imperial debate is basically a UK vs Europe issue. It should be the UK vs the world. Everyone out side the UK (except for the US) is fully metric. The US is partially metric and they don't use imperial, but their version called USC.

Euric - car to tell us why, in europe, they commonly have signs saying "2000m"? "3000m?" (in ref to your "1000" post)

Oh sorry! I forgot! You haven't actually *been* there have you?

You don't read and comprehend very well, do you? I understood perfectly what he wrote.

It says nothing about large numbers not being used, it says that people comprehend numbers between 1 and 1000 better. It was also previously mentioned that with metric numbers, the mind can instantly and easily rescale 2000 m, 3000 m, etc to 2 km and 3 km respectively.

You can't do that with imperial.

There are no roadsigns with "big numbers" on them in the UK!

"Very true! The imperialists go out of their way to know all the details of imperial and then make it appear that if they do it, so does everyone else"

I'll remember that next time I conolise a new country!!

There are no roadsigns with "big numbers" on them in the UK!

There doesn't have to be. The choice is up to the individual region or road authority as to what scale to use. When UK roads metricate, they will most likely keep the same scale now in use. Where miles are used, the kilometre will replace them. Where yards are used, the metre will replace them.

Look at how it is done in Eire as an example.

Big numbers are an Italian thing. Before the euro, they had the lire which used a lot of big numbers. Maybe they like them for some reason.

But the point you keep missing is that it doesn't matter. Metric numbers are always easily rescalable. Not like FFU.

Another Jasonism for all to enjoy:

"Where miles are used, the kilometre will replace them. Where yards are used, the metre will replace them"

Nice conversion.

(especially when it won't even happen!!!)

<<
Big numbers are an Italian thing. Before the euro, they had the lire which used a lot of big numbers. Maybe they like them for some reason.
>>

During the last few years I have driven in the Netherlands, Germany, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Italy, Switzerland and Spain (Minorca). In almost all of these countries I saw signs giving distances in metres of up to 2000m (usually motorway off-ramps of toll plazas etc). Apart from Italy I never saw any signs giving distances of more than 2000m quoted in metres (I worked in Germnany for 18 months and in the Netehrlands for 5 months). I merely passd throught the other countries or was there on holiday.

In Italy, apart from tunnel lengths I saw one or two instances of 3000m and one of 10000m (I worled there for about 10 months). I did feel that the 3000m and 10000m were excessive (especially the 10000m sign), but the Italians are not terribly well organised.

he's basing his assumptions on reading your old posts.

During the last few years I have driven in the Netherlands, Germany, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Italy, Switzerland and Spain (Minorca). In almost all of these countries I saw signs giving distances in metres of up to 2000m (usually motorway off-ramps of toll plazas etc). Apart from Italy I never saw any signs giving distances of more than 2000m quoted in metres (I worked in Germnany for 18 months and in the Netehrlands for 5 months). I merely passd throught the other countries or was there on holiday.

*****This makes sense, if one is counting down to the off ramp.

Did you notice if the signs went something like:

Ausfahrt 2000 m, then 1500 m, then 1000 m, then 500 m, etc.?

Steve's ignorance is amazing. He can't seem to get the point that because some research has found that people comprehend numbers between 1 and 1000 BETTER, means road signs can't show numbers greater then 1000. Or that people in metric countries can EASILY rescale the number in their mind to get it in perspective.


One thing that caugth my attention is the American use of feet and the UK use of yards for small distance on roads.

How does one follow those distances on the odometer? In the world, a distance of 100 m is easily read as 0.1 km, which is a valid display on the car's odometer. But, in the US and UK, how does one quickly read 500 feet or 500 yards on a 0.1 mile display?

With a metric display, 500 yards can be read as 0.5 km and be close enough, but on a mile display it is impossible.

BTW, in Australia a rancher or famer can easily measure his land in hectares with his vehicle. All he does is drive around two sides of the perimeter and measure the kilometres. A 6 km x 8 km distance becomes 48 km^2 or 4800 ha. No real conversions needed. Can one convert square miles to acres in one easy step?

Jason wrote

<<
Did you notice if the signs went something like:

Ausfahrt 2000 m, then 1500 m, then 1000 m, then 500 m, etc.?
>>

Yes

<<<Steve's ignorance is amazing. >>>

Keep the insults coming mate! People will soon have the same regard for you here as at that other site!


"How does one follow those distances on the odometer? "

Simple - you see tenths of a mile. Some mileometers dont show the tenths bit.

"In the world, a distance of 100 m is easily read as 0.1 km, which is a valid display on the car's odometer. But, in the US and UK, how does one quickly read 500 feet or 500 yards on a 0.1 mile display? "

Which planet is the UK/US on? Are we not on the world? That's a shame - coz if London and NY dissapeared so would the world economy (cue some daft stuff about the euro!)

How does one read 500yds from the display? Erm, why would we need to? Of the 59million people here why has no-one, except you, suggested that? How do you visualise 25 minutes past 5 on a clock that doesn't have 100minutes? Exactly! What a daft question.

Jason: "Very true! The imperialists go out of their way to know all the details of imperial and then make it appear that if they do it, so does everyone else."

I would imagine that for ALL of us who are arguing on this board there is a tendency to know more about measurements than Joe Average on the street.

Jason: "One thing that caugth my attention is the American use of feet and the UK use of yards for small distance on roads.

How does one follow those distances on the odometer? In the world, a distance of 100 m is easily read as 0.1 km, which is a valid display on the car's odometer. But, in the US and UK, how does one quickly read 500 feet or 500 yards on a 0.1 mile display? "

You don't normally need to. Most signs using feet or yards are warnings, such as "Stop ahead, 500 feet" or the all-too-frequent British "Road works 400 yards." People just estimate those distances. I don't know anyone who would actually use his odometer to measure them!

Jason: "Can one convert square miles to acres in one easy step?"

Yes. Multiply by 640.