Hi folks! Working in the US film industry I had cause to look up some details of British measures and came across your intriguing site. Let me tell you that even our own Mr Bush spoke recently of the US as a "progressive nation always looking at new ideas and moving forward". Take it from someone connected to our film industry and part of the ideology of a nation keen to move forward, we are indeed going to be as metric as the rest of the world one day. If US film industry already makes allowance for this, then the rest of the US clearly gets the idea that is where we are headed!
Recently I researched the death of Marilyn Monroe. All details of forensics in 1963 given in metric. Our health authorities use metric and many things rounded to even metric amounts on sale in every store. I notice more and more. We know what grams of fat are and medicate in milligrams. We get no more confused about a "mil" of water or "mil" thickness of cardboard than you would over a "pound" of weight and a "pound" of money. Give it a break! We see liters advertized everywhere, and know what they are, understand metric in sport and know our military use it too.
I have found the pro "FFU" folks (excellent term BTW, I will help that get used somewhere of wider circulation) just plain nasty. Not all Americans are red-necked "Aint broke, why fix it?" types. Keep up good work metric folk.
BTW, I now prefer to hear my weight in metric, is much easier to bear than the lbs figure ;)

re (Media Man): "Take it from someone connected to our film industry..."

REPLY:

Ah yes, the industry that refers to its main product as 'footage'.

Move over to the newspaper sector of the media industry, and there you'll find people covering acres of newsprint in something called 'column inches'.

Have you seen the fim 'The Whole Nine Yards' yet?

If not, try counting the number of times customary or Imperial measures are used in speech in any English language film - and then count the number of times metric units are used (if any)

Ah yes, the industry that refers to its main product as 'footage'.


Reply: Not so much anymore. The term is rarely heard these days. That may be because film is being replaced by DVDs; analog recording by digital. Thus FFU usage is continuously be relagated to REMNANT or LEGACY usage.

Oh, and did I tell you that DVDs, like CDs are metric? The diameter is EXACTLY 120 mm and the hole in the middle is EXACTLY 15 mm.



Move over to the newspaper sector of the media industry, and there you'll find people covering acres of newsprint in something called 'column inches'.

Reply:

How long will it be before newsprints ceases to exist and all future news will be readable only on the Computer screen?

Maybe not for awhile, but for your information a lot of the newspapers printed in the US are done on large semiautomated presses, imported from either Germany or Italy and are completely metric. The column inch has been replaced by the column centimetre.

See: http://www.teachingonline.org/maths1.html

The News in Your Newspaper

Preparation: You will need one newspaper and a ruler.

1. Newspaper space is measured in column centimetres. A column centimetre is the space which is one
column wide and one centimetre long.

Just do a google search on "column centimetre" and "column centimeter" and see what comes up.



Have you seen the fim 'The Whole Nine Yards' yet?

Reply: Have you seen the film "8 mm" yet?


If not, try counting the number of times customary or Imperial measures are used in speech in any English language film - and then count the number of times metric units are used (if any)


Reply:

Not in SCI-FI or futuristic films. Hollywood knows that future generations of american will be living in a metric country.


What you keep proving is that FFU is a thing of the past and industry and commerce is moving more and more towards metric.

Don't know if I'm missing somehting here, but the word footage hasn't got anything to do with the measurement "foot" has it? And even if it has, its a word, nothing to do with measurement.

Although people say "column inches" I am sure if they actually measure these column inches they probably use cm. "column inches" is a phrase just like "miles away" or "inching forward"

Does anyone think that the things we have on the end of our legs should be renamed?

The original poster sounds very familiar indeed!
Note the way he or she drops as many american spellings and american "usages" into the post in an almost "I'm an American, I really am, and I love the metric system, I really do!"

LOL!

BTW - I used to work for Rank, and they express film creation in feet, including (in the annual statements) how many feet of film was produced during the year!

And the term "footage" is used all the time IN THE UK. Just listen to Film 2003 and J.Ross will occasionally refer to "the following footage" etc.

Even if its from a 5-incher!

"How long will it be before newsprints ceases to exist and all future news will be readable only on the Computer screen? "

Fact - the brain receives 20% more information from printed media than a screen.

Luckily for most of us imperial usage continues to be on the rise, that's all I can say!

Andy - I believe that "footage" is "amounts of film". So if you see some footage you basically see 'so many' feet of cinematic film.

I believe this is where it comes from, and the industry still uses feet in quoting production of film (see my prev post)

Andy: "Don't know if I'm missing somehting here, but the word footage hasn't got anything to do with the measurement "foot" has it? "

Yes, it does. It's derived from the fact that film lengths were always measured in feet. In a similar way, we can talk about mileage, wattage, etc.

"But it doesn't matter really as the VHS tape, and other types of legacy media format are becoming obsolete "

You appear to be talking nonsense - probably because you have chosen a subject you know very little about.

Film used in cinemas are rolls of analogue film. Only the sound has been digitised. This is because the quality of picture on a screen of that scale would be awful.

This film is measured in feet, with feet per second as it's speed.

Now on to your other nonsense - imperial usage HAS gone up in the UK, possibly due to all the press about people being banned for selling bananas!

In the 80's, imperial was taken off the curriculum (this is when i was at school). In the 90's it was reintroduced.

What you are saying is really very rich coming from a position of never even visiting the UK.

How would you know the situation?

Oh yes "you have contacts"! Don't make me laugh (again).

We use those Friendly Flexible Units (FFS) all the time over here!

"Now on to your other nonsense - imperial usage HAS gone up in the UK, possibly due to all the press about people being banned for selling bananas!"

And there we have it.

"Film used in cinemas are rolls of analogue film. Only the sound has been digitised. This is because the quality of picture on a screen of that scale would be awful."

It hasn't stopped a certain Mr.G Lucas pioneering the use of digital cameras in movie making. The last Star Wars film was filmed entirely on digital cameras because it removes the need to "scan" the "footage" into a computer before the CGI effects are added.

The film 28 days was also filmed on digital cameras because speed was essential when filming the deserted street sequences in central London.

There are also proposals for using digital projection systems in cinemas which will remove the need for creating film prints at all.

Does this mean people will stop using the word "footage" ? I don't think so.

"Does this mean people will stop using the word "footage" ? I don't think so."

Just like we never stopped using the names of ancient gods for days and months, long after those gods had been forgotten.

"It hasn't stopped a certain Mr.G Lucas pioneering the use of digital cameras in movie making. The last Star Wars film was filmed entirely on digital cameras because it removes the need to "scan" the "footage" into a computer before the CGI effects are added."

And have you noticed how awful films have become as a result?

Check out "The Thing" (the colour version in the 80's) with it absolutely terrifying effects and realism. Check out alien. Now look at the recent Star Wars or "Blade 2" - its like watching a cartoon most of the time!

"How convenient of you not to mention it."

I am telling you that film production by Rank is measured in feet - can you not accept this?

"I'd like to see exactly how it is taught. You say this without offering proof. "

You will have already regretted posting that - as you will have read another post by me elsewhere on this forum.

"If it is measured in inches and feet, don't buy it, it is obsolete! "

What a powerful argument!

"what you are saying is rich too knowing I can't investigate your claim, so it is easy for you to lie."

I do not lie, we leave that to you. There are many pro-metric brits on this board - see if they call me a liar.
P.S. We don't call them liars too - because they tell the truth - this is where they differ from you. It's always great to call someone a liar with no substance but just remember that when you lie you need to remember your lie - if you tell the truth, no matter how uncomfortable, you don't have to guard yourself.

"Oh, so you do use metric. Only metric is friendly and flexible"

The first part of that sentence is true (shock horror)

Note that 'Euric' claims that 'Theater film is usually 70mm film'.

All standard theaters (in the US) use 35mm. 70mm film was once used for special productions but is no longer necessary because of the high resolution of modern film (in fact, even with 35mm resolution is limited by instability in the projector).

Also, I must point out that the designation have been converted to metric. 70mm film, derived from Kodak 120/220 roll film, is 2 3/4" wide, with 2 1/4" between sprockets. 35mm film is half this, 1 3/8" wide with 1" between sprockets.

If we can speak of 35mm and 70mm film, we can also say 5" CDs and DVDs.

Andrew Usher

"If we can speak of 35mm and 70mm film, we can also say 5" CDs and DVDs."

excellent point!

All standard theaters (in the US) use 35mm. 70mm film was once used for special productions but is no longer necessary because of the high resolution of modern film (in fact, even with 35mm resolution is limited by instability in the projector).

Reply;

Either way, it is a metric product.


Also, I must point out that the designation have been converted to metric. 70mm film, derived from Kodak 120/220 roll film, is 2 3/4" wide, with 2 1/4" between sprockets. 35mm film is half this, 1 3/8" wide with 1" between sprockets.


Reply:

I measured a few 35 mm negatives and found them to be exactly 35 mm and the sprocket centers to be 28 mm exactly. It may have been inches at one time but the industry must have hard converted the dimensions to an exact metric value long ago.

Yet I have found nothing so far on the internet to support your claim that 35 & 70 mm film is not 35 mm or 70 mm in width.

1-3/8 inches can be converted to metric 3 ways:

1.) 1.37 inches = 34.798 mm
2.) 1.375 inches = 34.925 mm
3.) 1.38 inches = 35.052 mm

Depending on the allowable manufaturing tolerances, 35 mm and 1.375 ~ 1.38 inches are close enough.

As for calling a 120 mm CD a 5 inch CD would imply an actual 5 inch CD, if it existed, would fit into a 120 mm player. 5 inches is 127 mm and all CD trays have a support cavity less than 125 mm. Your 5 inch CD would not fit, unless you beat it in with a hammer.

Something is not making sense. The 3.5 inch floppy (actually a 90 mm x 94 mm x 3.3 mm, per ISO specifications) is always soft converted by the BWMA to a 88.9 mm. Well, since the BWMA likes those EXACT convwersions, shouldn't you be calling a true 120 mm CD as 4.724 409 449 inches?


Or is that method only used when one wants to make metric look bad?

Get with the story "euric". The post was about movie film, and how production of it is calculated

It's imperial.

Get used to it!

: US Support December 20 2003, 8:06 AM

Re: US Support December 19 2003, 8:26 AM

Now on to your other nonsense - imperial usage HAS gone up in the UK, possibly due to all the press about people being banned for selling bananas!


In the 80's, imperial was taken off the curriculum (this is when i was at school). In the 90's it was reintroduced.

If you are proud of that fact you need your head examined. Why make children waste more precious time to learn a hybrid just for polititians gutlessness? Had metrication been implemented as experts advised in 1965, metrication would have been completed in 1978. The reason it did not happen has to be sheated home to politicians more interested in their political survival than the welfare of Britain's children. Is that what imperialists are proud of?

<<<If you are proud of that fact you need your head examined.>>>

Why do I need my head examined? What makes you say that? Do you know me well enough to have this suggestion? Or is it a throwaway insult? Hint: Write a book - call it "how to lose an argument"! It'll be a bet seller (erm..)

<<<Why make children waste more precious time to learn a hybrid just for polititians gutlessness?>>>

Because it's not a waste. It's a requirement. It makes up a portion of "living in the UK". Why deny a child the ability to learn the language of the country just to suit polititians gutlessness?


<<<Had metrication been implemented as experts advised in 1965, metrication would have been completed in 1978>>>

How many times have we heard "as experts advised"? This is merely opinionated nonsence - the evidence proves that they were wrong.

<<<The reason it did not happen has to be sheated home to politicians more interested in their political survival than the welfare of Britain's children.>>>

Not sure what "sheated" means but if you think today's politicians will get political survival out of supporting the UK in front of EU then you've obviously been holed up in your flat for too long. Get out a bit.

<<< Is that what imperialists are proud of? >>>

Imperialists would be proud of colonizing countries - what has this got to do with weights and measures?

metre: "If you are proud of that fact you need your head examined. Why make children waste more precious time to learn a hybrid just for polititians gutlessness?"

It is not wasting their time to learn something which will be of use to them. Whether you like or accept it or not, many people in Britain DO use Imperial measurements. If a child is not taught the size of a foot or an inch, how is he going to understand measurements when given in feet and inches?

It is not wasting their time to learn something which will be of use to them. Whether you like or accept it or not, many people in Britain DO use Imperial measurements. If a child is not taught the size of a foot or an inch, how is he going to understand measurements when given in feet and inches?

Reply:

Easy! He reminds the person(s) using out dated units that this is the 21-st century, not the 15-th and if said person(s) want(s) to be understood, said person(s) must speak in modern metric measurements. Otherwise said person(s) will be ignored as one does when to those that speak gibberish.

'Euric':

I am certain that 35/70mm film is from Kodak roll film, which is 2 3/4". When I said 'between sprockets' I meant between the inside of the sprockets, i.e. the usable frame area.

1 3/8" can not be converted '3 ways'. 3/8 = 0.375 last time I checked (I have secretly believed that metric if for those who can't do math).

I have never measured a CD. I only need to know that my 5" disk fits in my 5" player! Same with floppies - in the absence of original documentation, I can assume the original standard was English, even if not exactly 3.500".

Steve, surely you should spell 'colonising' ...

Andrew Usher

Re: US Support December 23 2003, 6:59 AM

metre: "If you are proud of that fact you need your head examined. Why make children waste more precious time to learn a hybrid just for polititians gutlessness?"

PaulEOS
It is not wasting their time to learn something which will be of use to them. Whether you like or accept it or not, many people in Britain DO use Imperial measurements. If a child is not taught the size of a foot or an inch, how is he going to understand measurements when given in feet and inches?

Imperial measurements are about as important as a hole in the head.

Do you know why medieval imperial measurements are still in use today? If you can add 4+6 and get 12 you know why!

<<<Easy! He reminds the person(s) using out dated units that this is the 21-st century, not the 15-th and if said person(s) want(s) to be understood, said person(s) must speak in modern metric measurements. >>>>

So, in the UK, the minority forces the majority to speak precisely how they speak? Get a life mate!

<<<<Otherwise said person(s) will be ignored as one does when to those that speak gibberish. >>>>

A gentle walk down a British street will net you a lot of gibberish then!!! LOL!!!


<<<Steve, surely you should spell 'colonising'>>>

"z" and "s" are interchangeable, I believe. Others here can comment on this. I believe certain words are better with "s" and some with "z" and that we don't use the "z" enough. Good argument though, much more realistic and "real-world" than the absolute gibberish that "Euric" is coming out with!

<<<
Imperial measurements are about as important as a hole in the head. >>>

This is martin's way of realising (at last) that we all need to breathe. It's a *habit* we can all do with!!!

Sorry martin, I meant "metre" (real post name Eric).

It dawned on me that your style of post has never been like a rabid child - so please accept my apology of mixing you with a loony extremist.

Apology accepted Steve

<<<Steve, surely you should spell 'colonising'>>>

SteveH: ""z" and "s" are interchangeable, I believe. Others here can comment on this. I believe certain words are better with "s" and some with "z" and that we don't use the "z" enough."

An argument I've had quite a few times! Many Brits seem to regard -ize spellings as American "corruptions" of the language. In fact these are the original forms, the -ise ending being a much later introduction in Britain.

The King's English dictionary of 1930's vintage lists -ize as standard in the main text, with -ise forms listed as acceptable alternatives in an addendum.

The -ise ending may have become the most common in Britain, but some publishers (e.g. Pitman technical) retained the -ize forms certainly up to the 1970s if not later.

I should have added that some words can take only the -ise ending, e.g. advertise, televise.