On September 18 2003 Reuters has reported that Apple, Dell, Gateway, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Sharp, Sony and Toshiba have been sued in a class-action suit in Los Angeles Superior Court for "deceiving" the true capacity of their hard drives. This of course was due to ambiguity of "KB" when used by software and hardware vendors. This precedent might prompt Apple to adapt binary prefixes in its Mac OS, as well as other companies to put pressure on Microsoft to adapt them in its Windows operating systems.

http://members.optus.net/alexey/prefBin.html

This lawsuit is the result of the confusion that has resulted from the computer industry not following the guidelines for the proper use of prefixes when describing computer memory or disk space.

As a result people are feeling cheated. They buy a hard drive described one way and the computer says the capacity is less then what they thought they bought. Why? Because of different industries defining the prefixes differently.

The IEC fixed the problem in 1998, but resistance to the change (or as the BWMA would argue - their freedom to chose their own way) has brought nothing but confusion. The confusion could have been avoided if the IEC standard for binary prefixes for computer usage would have been required under force of law.

Now the outcome of the lawsuit will determine whether the industry must comply with the IEC standard.

Despite the lawsuit, others are moving forward with a plan to adopt the standard, especially now that it has been adopted by linux:

On December 11 2002 IEEE-SA has approved proposal P1541 as a Trial-Use Standard for the duration of 2 years. IEEE Standard No.: 1541-2002, Name: IEEE Standard for Prefixes for Binary Multiples, ISBN: 0-73813385-X. It can be purchased at IEEE Online Store. The standard was prepared by Standards Coordinating Committee (SCC) 14, Quantities, Units, and Letter Symbols.

ANSI has also accepted BSR/IEEE 1541-200x, Trial-Use Standard for Prefixes for Binary Multiples (trial use standard) for a trial period: 1 December, 2002 through 30 June, 2004.

After a much heated discussion in December 2001 on linux-kernel mailing list, the binary prefixes have been accepted by key Linux developers, and are now extensively gaining ground across UNIX applications.

Ok

Let's see if I can get this clear in my head....

On Christmas day you were agitated enough to log on to your pc, come to the BWMA board, cut and paste some bilge from somewhere else in order to have a go at people who use imperial?

Am I correct in making this assumption?

Was there nothing else you could do?

In the spirit of Christmas, and for this ocassion only, I feel very sorry for you.

I can't think of anything else to write, quite honestly.

I can only assume that the only glimmer of hope on this significant day is that - maybe - you found it "nice" not to mention your favourite "FFU" thing.


I hope that on New Years Day that you can find happiness in a collective way rather than - I presume - having a go at the people here.

I find this all quite odd!

Those against mandatory imposition of metric are arguing for the right to choose what units you want to use, not the right to define units in whatever way you like.

EURIC:
September 18 2003 Reuters has reported that Apple, Dell, Gateway, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Sharp, Sony and Toshiba have been sued in a class-action suit in Los Angeles Superior Court for "deceiving" the true capacity of their hard drives. This of course was due to ambiguity of "KB" when used by software and hardware vendors. This precedent might prompt Apple to adapt binary prefixes in its Mac OS, as well as other companies to put pressure on Microsoft to adapt them in its Windows operating systems.

http://members.optus.net/alexey/prefBin.html

This lawsuit is the result of the confusion that has resulted from the computer industry not following the guidelines for the proper use of prefixes when describing computer memory or disk space.

As a result people are feeling cheated. They buy a hard drive described one way and the computer says the capacity is less then what they thought they bought. Why? Because of different industries defining the prefixes differently.

metre:
Another example of beloved imperial measurement diversity! Viva la complication, the more the merrier. As only Imperialists know, life would surely be too easy otherwise. One truly wonders, are these people re-incarnations of stone age man?

As an imperialist I have to say (while invading another country to colonise) that Hard disk space is not just a case of getting your prefixes right. It's also the fact that areas of the platter can be used by the disk software. Also there are unusable areas of disk that - although make up the total capacity - cannot be used to store data.

If this does not suit you eric - get a piece of slate to store data on!

Steve,

Since you are a DBA, you should be aware that 1k can mean either 1000 or 1024.

Likewise, when we talk of a 20GB disk, we can mean either 2*10^9 bytes or 2.147*10^9 bytes, depending on what we actually mean by 20GB. The difference between the two is 7% (and that is before we start looking at the technical details).

" Since you are a DBA, you should be aware that 1k can mean either 1000 or 1024. "

That would be erronous in my line of work - 1KB (note the case) can only mean 1024B (or 1024 bytes)

To create segments of 1000 bytes a piece (or multiples of) would lead to a confusing state of affairs.

A DB block size is usually 2048, 8192 or 16384 bytes (and sometimes 32768 bytes in O/Ss that support it for warehouseing).

Anything bigger than that for reference would still be mutiples of 1024bytes (1024*1024 for 1Mb, *1024 for a GB [=1073741824]).

Hopefully we all know the reason for the 1024 base (U 2 4 8 16 32 etc)

Steve,

If you were looking fo a new job and you were offered £1k would you be expecting £1024 or £1000? That is probably half the reason for the court case (the other half is that some lawyer probably smells a way of making a quick buck).

£1k can only mean £1000.00

a K relating to KB can only mean 1024 - I see no issue

Re: Why we need standards and laws to enforce them January 5 2004, 8:10 AM

£1k can only mean £1000.00

a K relating to KB can only mean 1024 - I see no issue

metre:
Only a very sloppy, or imperial mind, can come up with an excuse like that. Why should metric countries, and you seem to forget forever that those are the overwhelming majority, put up with Yankee sloppiness, careless disregard of established conventions, or outright malice, to suit themslves. K or k always means 1000!
Metric countries all of sudden had to make a distinction between capital K and lower case k in computers to suit Americans improper and deliberate use of K for 1024. It is about time that somebody tells them they are not alone on this planet!

<<<Metric countries all of sudden had to make a distinction between capital K and lower case k in computers to suit Americans improper and deliberate use of K for 1024>>>

Care to tell us how you are going to re-engineer the entire nature of computation with regards to how on earth a computer is going to work out how to solve a problem without using "on/off" (binary) signals?

Will each component on the circuit literally "say" the signal to each other?

You're on another planet, eric!

You can try to force your views on people in regards to what measurement system to use but you can shout at a circuit board till your blue in the face! It ain't gonna listen!

(actually - try it - please?)

Why we need standards and laws to enforce them January 6 2004, 4:58 AM

<<<Metric countries all of sudden had to make a distinction between capital K and lower case k in computers to suit Americans improper and deliberate use of K for 1024>>>

Care to tell us how you are going to re-engineer the entire nature of computation with regards to how on earth a computer is going to work out how to solve a problem without using "on/off" (binary) signals?

Will each component on the circuit literally "say" the signal to each other?

You're on another planet, eric!

You can try to force your views on people in regards to what measurement system to use but you can shout at a circuit board till your blue in the face! It ain't gonna listen!

(actually - try it - please?)

Why do I bother? I know you have tremendous difficulties thinking outside your ironclad square. That's why I still try to help you. Yanks could have called 1024 bytes anything they liked! For all, I and I am sure everybody else would have cared, it could have been Frostbytes. Maybe now you get what I meant in my post?

Sorry?

Which planet are you on?

steveH.
Re: Why we need standards and laws to enforce them January 7 2004, 4:19 AM

Sorry?

Which planet are you on?

metre:
One can only try. If it isn't there it isn't.

Well thanks for clearing that up


That makes a lot of sense!


Cheers Pal! (oh and crack open another diamond white eh?)