Problaby you folks are not interested at all about the rest op Europe!

1)
Be it known that signs in your country stating distances in metric only helps visitors from abroad. We do not know your measures and we do not want to learn them either. If you are so keen on your traditions please exit the EU. Try to get as many votes against staying in it. Then we can incur proper actions against it.
For instance: Make an entry to mainland Europe illegal with cars that are not fit to use on our motorways, ie only cars fitted with metric instruments and the drivers's seat on the left side of the car. Caravan doors only fitted on the right side. You then impose the same rules to us and we will see where we all stand in ten years time.
A total ban on goods from our countries to yours that are made with metric tools and hardware. Break all liasions with the commonwealth countries that did decide to convert to metric would not be a bad idea also.

2) It would at least be advisable to reglularly check all the links given on your website, many of them do not show what they intend to be, point back to your own site or are broken.

3) Yes we know all about conversions, in the past we too had to cope with them a lot yet we did survive.

I wish you the very best of luck with your various limbs and rocks, oh and revert to your beautiful shillings and denarius too!

Peter

Some nice people on the continent!

Dutch cars are commonly seen in England and Wales in the summer - much more so than French or German - they like touring the countryside and historical monuments (it may also be to get away from the summer smell of dope in the city streets over there).

Mind you, I will say this, every time I stop to talk to them, they say: "For goodness sake, when are you going to get rid of the mile and the yard?"

re (Pieter): "You then impose the same rules to us..."

REPLY: Not the English style, mate. Making lost of rules is more the sort of thing they do, well, on the continent - oh, and in the UKMA

P.S. Thanks very much for supplying us with William III and giving us the Declaration and Bill of Rights in 1688 - great move for us

Tony,

>P.S. Thanks very much for supplying us with William III and giving us the Declaration and Bill of Rights in 1688 - great move for us

And we still are much ashamed of those marches in NI. Orange is definitely not my favourite colour.

Peter

REPLY: Not the English style, mate. Making lost of rules is more the sort of thing they do, well, on the continent - oh, and in the UKMA

Just what I meant, Tony, I'm not referring to making all sorts of rules, I'm only trying to counter the genuine resistance to metrication, that's all. I'm not against Britain, I have visited your country also and clearly I know how to communicate in your language, maybe not as perfect as you can, otherwise I would not have found the way to your website. I merely want to point out that one unit for the whole world would benefit us all. Of course the tone in my first writing does not seem to be much pro British but I spend time to watch your TV, read your magazines and news papers. As a dutchman I am able to speak 4 European languages fluently and have friends all over the world who share my views. I am not a politician, do not have a religion, work 5 days a week and detest all kinds of drugs vividly wheather weighed in ounces or in grams...

Peter

re (Pieter): "...one unit for the whole world would benefit us all..."

REPLY: Are you sure?

Would the following also benefit the world?

One language?

One currency?

One government?

One culture?

One style of house building?

Take a look at nature, there you will see amazing diversity and variety

re (Pieter von Nederland):

Problaby you folks are not interested at all about the rest of Europe!

REPLY: What a strange comment.

Let me ask you a simple question.

For what historical reasons do you think that the English language has become the lingua franca of the world today?

re: (Pieter von Nederland) "Orange is definitely not my favourite colour..."


REPLY: You won't like the Irish flag at all, then, it's 33.33 recurring percent orange.

Unlike the British flag which has no orange at all.

I visited Northern Ireland for 8 days this year and most of the Orange Halls in the province are surrounded by 12 to 15 feet of fencing and barbed wire. There's nothing like that around Roman Catholic churches. I wonder why?

The UK can not leave the EU. At least not in one piece. It is the English who have a problem with metric and the EU. The Scots are very pro-metric and pro-EU and very anti-English.

Leaving the EU will give the Scots the excuse they need to leave the UK. And then Scotland can be admitted to the EU as an independant country. They can adopt the Euro and complete the metrication.

re (Pieter): "...one unit for the whole world would benefit us all..." It's Peter, Tony...

REPLY: Are you sure?
Yes I am, we are talking measurements, didn't we?

>Would the following also benefit the world?
>One language?
YES, and if that would have to be English, no problem on my end. Since the influence of your language is so much integrated in ours I often suggest even to forget ours but no one buys that overhere... But beside a national language an international one would indeed benefit us all.
>One currency?
YES
One government?
NO, definetly not!
>One culture?
Come on, Tony...
>One style of house building?
You really think I AM a politician, don't you?
>Take a look at nature, there you will see amazing diversity and variety
And so it should be. But we can communicate with each other through a common language. Howmany besides English do YOU understand, Tony?

re (Pieter von Nederland):
"Von" is German, Tony, not Dutch. And again my name is Peter not Pieter.

Problaby you folks are not interested at all about the rest of Europe!

REPLY: What a strange comment.
Is it? It's simply the way we look at it, Tony, if only you would be able to read foreign newspapers
>Let me ask you a simple question.

>For what historical reasons do you think that the English language has become the lingua franca of the world today?

Because your language, Tony, is partially formed by Romans, French Frisians and Vikings. It's that "lingua franca" that strikes me most. Howmany English people do you think that understand these words and knows where it came from?

By the way, it was me, who posted these two last comments.
Why is the time quoted so odd?
It's now 01.15 local summer time which is currently 2004.08.03 23:15 UTC

Nice! August 3 2004, 12:37 PM

TB:
Some nice people on the continent!

Dutch cars are commonly seen in England and Wales in the summer - much more so than French or German - they like touring the countryside and historical monuments (it may also be to get away from the summer smell of dope in the city streets over there).

Mind you, I will say this, every time I stop to talk to them, they say: "For goodness sake, when are you going to get rid of the mile and the yard?"

metre:
You are getting slack forgetting to add metric to dope. I am sure you will make up for in due course.

Only One System August 3 2004, 2:26 PM


re (Pieter): "...one unit for the whole world would benefit us all..."

REPLY: Are you sure?

Would the following also benefit the world?

One language?

One currency?

One government?

One culture?

One style of house building?

Take a look at nature, there you will see amazing diversity and variety

metre:
Language:
No language is inferior to another, but imperial measurements are defenitely so to metric!
You and the rest of imperialists are getting awefully tiresome regurgitating the same stupidity over and over again. If this is your only reason to hang on to obsolete units please call it a day.
Currency:
What would be wrong with one currency? That global trade and monetary transactions would be simplified?

World government:
We are humans first and nationals second!
If people vote democratically for it why not?

Culture:
Keep the good and get rid of the bad. Or would you insist on people being encouraged to practice genital mutilation and other needless atrocities.

Building style:
Only an imperial mind can come up with an idiocy like this.

Nature:
What has natural diversity to do with cumbersome and obsolete measurement units?

Why is the time quoted so odd?
It's now 01.15 local summer time which is currently 2004.08.03 23:15 UTC


The BWMA loves things British so much, they had their site hosted on an American server in California, thus the date and time format is American and the time stamp is US Pacific time (west coast).

Little Englanders, Het Op August 3 2004, 2:32 PM


re (Pieter von Nederland):

Problaby you folks are not interested at all about the rest of Europe!

TB:
REPLY: What a strange comment.

Let me ask you a simple question.

For what historical reasons do you think that the English language has become the lingua franca of the world today?

metre:
Certainly not for what you think Tony. While Britain contributed to a small measure to its universality prior to WWII, it was America's super power status after 1945 that really made it the world's lingua franca.

Peter: Problaby you folks are not interested at all about the rest op Europe!

Carlyle: The BWMA is angered with Europe for not accepting imperial and for metric spreading world-wide and displacing imperial in every corner of the world that the British once ruled. Instead of imperial being the standard measurement system in every country, it is used nowhere and in its home country it is being phased out.

Peter: A total ban on goods from our countries to yours that are made with metric tools and hardware. Break all liasions with the commonwealth countries that did decide to convert to metric would not be a bad idea also.

Carlyle: Only one small problem with this. British industry is now 100 % metric. British industry was the force behind the government conversion to begin with. The only part of the UK that has not yet converted is road signs and pints used in pubs and milk in bottles left by the door.

Peter: 2) It would at least be advisable to reglularly check all the links given on your website, many of them do not show what they intend to be, point back to your own site or are broken.

Carlyle: Many links are old. With metrication continuing in the UK there isn't much point in crying about certain issues as no reversion will ever happen. Petrol will always be sold in litres as will all market items be sold in metric units.


Peter: 3) Yes we know all about conversions, in the past we too had to cope with them a lot yet we did survive.

Carlyle: Those of us who use only metric don't do conversions. The BWMA supporters do it all the time. They waste hours trying to convert the contents declarations on metric packages (almost 100 % of products in the UK market is metric) into imperial. Rather then wise up and adopt metric, they would rather whine about not being served in imperial.

Peter: I wish you the very best of luck with your various limbs and rocks, oh and revert to your beautiful shillings and denarius too!

Carlyle: All of the luck int he world will not save imperial. The metrication process is now in the last millimetre.

Peter

Carlyle, why is your above post signed "Peter?"

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Don't you also love the way he's adopted the other mad-mans style of post?

Loves these two clangers (that prove how little he knows about the UK):

"The Scots are very pro-metric and pro-EU and very anti-English. "

"Only one small problem with this. British industry is now 100 % metric"

LOL!!!!

If Peter *is* from holland, he's the only foreigner I know that has visited the UK and *doesn't* like the fact that we are still mainly imperial.

All europeans I've spoken to / befriended actually like it! I had some french colleagues who actually picked it up quite quickly (I wonder why!!).

And all this nonsense about lingua franca, English and the United States crap - ask a luxumbourgian from an EU dept to spell "colour".

Carlyle, why is your above post signed "Peter?"

I cut and pasted Peter's comments and added my own replys. I did not delete Peter's name from the paste. If you look at his original post, you will see he wrote his name at the bottom.

SteveH (on Carlyle)
"The Scots are very pro-metric and pro-EU and very anti-English."

Surveys have shown Scotland to be more pro-EU on occasion - but not to a hugely significant degree.

Not aware of any survey in Scotland re metric/imperial, but my local area has no imperial weighing machines still in trade use that I know of.

3rd assertion depends on
a) are we playing England at football/rugby/tiddleywinks in the next few days
b) are England still playing in something that we've already been knocked out of - I'll normally watch an England match with the opposition traditional drink in my glass - French & Portugese wines were very good this year....

re (Carlyle): "The Scots are very pro-metric and pro-EU and very anti-English

REPLY: I arrived on a boat in Stornoway, Isle of Lewis, minutes before David Beckham scored *that* penalty against Argentina (last one he scored for England, wasn't it?).

Moments after that penalty, we wandered into a pub and there was an awful, deathly stillness in the room as the penalty was 'action replayed'. I somehow sensed this was not the place to linger.

Turning the corner, there was wild cheering coming from the 'Whalebone' just down the road, and it was plastered with large 'Cross of St. George' flags. I got chatting to the landlord. His father and grandfather had been in the British forces during the wars, and in the pub they all had a sense of being 'British' rather than (or, as well as) Scots. His son had married an English lass.

Beckham's penalty was a couple of mintues before half-time. Some thugs from Pub No. 1 were so enraged that they turned out at half-time and ripped down several of the St. George's flags outside the 'Whalebone'. There was nearly a fight.

The Scots prospered the moment they gave up their historic connections with Catholicism and France. Their Union with England brought blessings to both nations and of course the English allowed the Scots to keep many of their ways, notably their quite separate Scottish legal system which survives to this day.

Incidentally, the last time any monarch in the U.K. actually refused to give the Royal Assent to a Parliamentary Bill was in 1717 over the Scottish Militia Bill. Queen Anne wanted to make absolutely sure that the Scots could never again form a military alliance with the French.


European Community money helped fund the rise of the Scottish Nationalist Party.

In the recent Euro elections, the Scottish National Party vote slumped badly and the Scots Nats' leader, John Swinney, resigned, to be replaced by Alex Salmond (again!). Meanwhile the U.K. Independence Party vote in Scotland, which had hitherto been at around 1%, suddenly rose to 7%.

I was taking the Freefone calls for the U.K. Independence Party in the run-up to the election. The day after the Scottish Herald ran a poll suggesting a 12% poll for UKIP in Scotland, I got a call from someone with a Scottish accent who said, and I quote: "The U.K Independence Party is a f______ English Party. Come up to Govan, mate, and you'll get f______ kneecapped".

Nice!

A few points re Tony's post
1) The ferry must have been running around an hour late if he only got in "minutes before" the penalty
2) Don't know of the Whalebone. There is a "Whalers Rest" though
3) Might just be possible that a Scots pub had English flags on gameday - especially on an island - some of the islands are full of people that are sick of urban squalour and want to start again in a beautiful location.
4) I could name plenty of pubs in London where the penalty would have received the same reception (mainly Irish, but the William Wallace would have had the cross of St Andrew on display)
5) The Tartan Army has recently won the UEFA Fair Play award. The Fair Play award was originally instituted after Dundee United fans applauded IFK Goteburg when they won the UEFA cup at United's home ground. English football fans have a slightly different reputation.
6) Scotland is actively trying to eradicate bigotry. We have a problem. Please do not try to fan the flames by referring to religion. But, I suppose, the BNP tried it recently in Glasgow, I would ask if Tony has a similar agenda
7) "The English allowed...." - Keep recruiting for the SNP Tony!
8) The SNP had UK seats before 1973. They are represented in Holyrood, Westminster & Brussels. How many UKIP members are there in Holyrood or Westminster?
9) Unless I missed it, the SNP leadership race is still going on. Does Tony know the result in advance? Is it another Euro fix? Are the Scots in secret alliance with the French?
10) What is the "Scottish Herald" There is a paper called "The Herald" which is also known by its old name of the "Glasgow Herald" By Tony's logic, I read the "Scottish Scotsman"
11) Finally, Tony has obviously seen far, far too much Rab C Nesbitt. Govan is the home of Glasgow Rangers FC. Ibrox is probably the only place in Scotland where Tony's views would be totally agreed with. Again, it also has the highest number of BNP recruiters and magazine sellers outside. Its a lovely place.

Tony, please don't lecture me about my country.


Should really get back on topic.... ehmm..... I got a speeding ticket outside Ibrox for doing 41mph 4 months ago....

Your views
Thank you Simon Mills for your comments.
All I want to do is spend my Republic of Scotland euros when I buy a kilo of Apples.
How long will I have to wait?

Add Comment / Read Comments

from: http://www.cyphus.com/cyphus/stp.nsf/views/44BA51158BAF0B6085256CFA004EC0A9?OpenDocument

I don't understand the above over-reaction by Berenger. Scotland and England are one country, joined at the hip, and long may it be that way.

No wonder the Scots dislike us if people see Scotland as just a little part of England

They might be part of the UK just as we are part of the EU, but this does not mean they are not a seperate country.

Bryan wrote

<<
I don't understand the above over-reaction by Berenger. Scotland and England are one country, joined at the hip, and long may it be that way.
>>

Be careful, you might be force-fed a live haggis without the benefit of any gravy [whiskey] and while you are choking, you will be required to listen to somebody playing the bagpipes from a distance not exceeding two metres.

Who said Scotland was a little piece of England? Very few people think that way. Scotland is a great nation of great traditions and a great people to boot- just like the English. But we are unifed in the entity known as the UK, and will forever be so. I in fact dislike English nationalists more than I do Scottish nationalists, as I am a true British nationalist (without the dodgy political associations, heh). The great thing about the UK, as symbolised in our flag, is that we are an inclusive union of different peoples; as Tony stated, we in England did not force Scotland to give up their legal system etc, as Britain is a unified two-way thing, that we all equally belong to- it is not, I repeat NOT, an English imperialist invention. Scottish pride is one thing, talk of Scottish independence is another. SNP types completely misunderstand their own nation, be it scotland or be it the UK. In short, this talk of the UKIP being an English party is stupid. The English nationalist party and the English democrat party are English parties, UKIP is a true unionist party, and maybe the Tories should take note of UKIP for that reason alone.

And Andy, Scotland is not a part of the UK in the same way that the UK is a part of the EU. You have displayed your ignorance of your own nation and shown yourself a traitor. Thank you.

re (Beranger): "Unless I missed it, the SNP leadership race is still going on. Does Tony know the result in advance?"

REPLY: Yes. Alex Salmond has won already

Tony, please don't lecture me about my country.

REPLY: I don't think I did. I related a few facts about Scotland.

I would also add that in general, Scots are just as pro-British, if not more so, than the English. I recently headed a campaign to get people to send pre-addressed postcards to the Queen calling on her not to give Royal Assent to any Bill to impose the European Constitution (along with other similar campaigns, it succeeded!). Support from Scotland was magnificent.

Sadly, there has always been an 'anti-English' element within Scottish Nationalism, especially amongst middle-class government and local Council staff and the media (Labour and Liberal Democrat types). This anti-English sentiment is despite the fact that under the famous 'Barnett formula', England gives £8 billion a year to Scotland. On one of my jaunts to Scotland I recall visiting a ScotNat stall at a Highland Games with 'Remember Bannockburn' posters plastered all over it. To which I might rejoinder: 'Remember the Jacobites'.

Flags flown from Town Halls and other public buildings in Scotland these days are usually the European Union flag and the Scottish saltire. The Union Flag is rarely seen in Scotland now.

Finally, you spoke about 'your country' (Scotland), but when I was in the Highlands last year, I noticed a number of Pictish nationalist signs and it seems that up there, quite a few of them want Pictish independence from Edinburgh. Mind you, most of the Picts are in north America these days


P.S. You are dead right, it was the 'Whaler's Rest'

Look fellas, I say to them, Alba annexed you centuries ago; deal with it.

Perhaps Edinburgh and London should join in an historic move to give the Pictish nationals a major short sharp and very dry Royal slap 'round the chops. All in favour, say "och aye laddie".

OK, maybe I overreacted. In response to Carlyle's post that the Scots are anti-English, I tried to humourously point out that that it's mainly a sporting thing. We don't support England, and judging by the "are you Scotland in disguise" chants at England v France (before injury time) - you don't support us. I married an English lass too - but she doesn't & wouldn't vote UKIP

Tony chose to try to score political & sectarian points. I particularily dislike sectarianism - If Tony really knew Scotland, he would know that the Celtic/Rangers thing is a problem particular to us & the Irish. People get killed over this in both countries. Fanning the flames does no good whatsoever.

I note that Tony didn't answer any of my questions re these points apart from the pub name and stating that Eck the Fish (think about it!) has won the SNP leadership race.

Today's Scotsman p10 - Politics - "SNP's chief whip backs Salmond leadership bid" plus 5 columns of analysis.

Tony then introduces 2 new points - the Union flag & Pictish independance

Todays Argyllshire Advertiser p8 contains a letter bemoaning Westminster interference in which flag is flown from council flagpoles. Westminster suggests we fly our own St Andrew's cross only on Nov 30 & the Union flag at all other times. I believe Angus Council are one of the few that fly the saltire all year. I would ask Tony to name & shame the Scottish council that flies the EC flag all year.

The "Pict" symbols you see are the product of Robbie the Pict. Robbie (or Brian - to give him his Sunday name) has his own agenda. It does not (as far as I am aware) involve a new Pictavia separate from the rest of Scotland.

How far off topic can we get on this thread........

Tony
"Flags flown from Town Halls and other public buildings in Scotland these days are usually the European Union flag and the Scottish saltire. The Union Flag is rarely seen in Scotland now."

I responded to this. I asked Tony to give his viewpoint. I quoted a letter to the press printed in the last 2 days. I quoted recent Westminster guidance. Why the silence? Why make statements and not back them up? Could you answer my previous questions on this thread while you are at it too?

"Surveys have shown Scotland to be more pro-EU on occasion - but not to a hugely significant degree."

It seems to come in waves (IMHO). Some Scots appear servile to the EU perhaps thinking that their economy will overheat like it is in Ireland and that they could drive big cars for a while.

"Not aware of any survey in Scotland re metric/imperial"

Am I not right in saying that a Scottish pub became famous for not converting their pub optics?

"...are we playing England at football/rugby/tiddleywinks in the next few days"

Being Welsh I can concur with this hugely - except when my fiencée has a right go at me (she's English).

I tend to do the thing that most Welsh do. Support the opposite team when England's winning!

The best one was at the fly-half (opposite the m/stadium, Cardiff) when France were playing England some years ago. Everyone "sang" the french anthem and then cheered as France got the first points. Then when they were well ahead the crowd cheered for England as they scored their first points and continued to cheer until England won!

I do get p***ed off when England use "God save the Queen" though.

<<No wonder the Scots dislike us if people see Scotland as just a little part of England>>

Actually Scotland is a large part of the UK, England is a smaller part of the UK and Wales/Ulster are little parts of the UK.

So what?

re (Beranger's Questions):

8) The SNP had UK seats before 1973. They are represented in Holyrood, Westminster & Brussels. How many UKIP members are there in Holyrood or Westminster?
9) Unless I missed it, the SNP leadership race is still going on. Does Tony know the result in advance? Is it another Euro fix? Are the Scots in secret alliance with the French?
10) What is the "Scottish Herald" There is a paper called "The Herald" which is also known by its old name of the "Glasgow Herald". By Tony's logic, I read the "Scottish Scotsman"

REPLIES:
8) There are no UKIP members in Holyrood or Westminster. There are 2 UKIP members elected to the London Assembly in June. There are of course 12 UKIP M.E.P.s in the European Parliament. There are now dozens of UKIP District and Local Councillors

9) Up until the 1700s, there was a strong Scottish Catholic element that was pro-French and anti-English. The Roman Catholic Church has, of course, never forgiven England for winning its independence from the Papacy in the 1500s and still refers to England as 'Mary's dowry'. Incidentally, when the Queen or the Prime Minister of Britain visits the Pope, they are required to wear black (whilst the Pope wears white) as a 'sign of repentance'(!). Look at the photos

10) I think it was 'The Herald'

P.S. You asked about Scottish Councils flying E.U. flags. There are loads of them. They are required to fly the Union Flag on 9 public holidays a year, which they do. Harlow, where I live, is just the same, despite local protests - and so are many other English authorities.

I think I have answered all your questions

SteveH
"Am I not right in saying that a Scottish pub became famous for not converting their pub optics?"
Was it not the Quarter Gill pub in Glasgow that refused to change it's name? I believe it sells 35ml measures. What is the problem with that? BTW, there used to be a Dundee band called Free Beer. Pubs always used to advertise when they played. They got a lot of gigs!

Tony
"8) There are no UKIP members in Holyrood or Westminster. There are 2 UKIP members elected to the London Assembly in June. There are of course 12 UKIP M.E.P.s in the European Parliament. There are now dozens of UKIP District and Local Councillors"


OK, but let us compare like with like. The UKIP is a UK wide organisation. The SNP only fights seats in Scotland. As you have brought local councils and the London Assembly into the question, would you allow me to rephrase the question?

I would ask you:

1) How many UKIP representatives (at any level) are currently representing Scottish seats and at what level of government?
2) If they do have elected representatives on Scottish local authorities, do they contol or hold the balance of power on any of these authorities?
3) In the recent European election, how many UKIP candidates had Scottish home addresses?
4) In the recent European Election Scottish Consituency, Scottish Labour got most votes (2 seats), followed (in order) by the SNP (2 seats), Scottish Conservatives (2 seats) and the Scottish Liberal Democrats (1 seat). The next 3 were the Scottish Greens, Scottish Socialist Party & UKIP (in alphabetical order).I honestly cannot recall the order that they finished in but suspect that the UKIP were 6th or 7th. Can you confirm? (I apologise if they were in fact 5th, but remember it being quite close between those 3 parties)

Tony
"9) Up until the 1700s, there was a strong Scottish Catholic element that was pro-French and anti-English. The Roman Catholic Church has, of course, never forgiven England for winning its independence from the Papacy in the 1500s and still refers to England as 'Mary's dowry'. Incidentally, when the Queen or the Prime Minister of Britain visits the Pope, they are required to wear black (whilst the Pope wears white) as a 'sign of repentance'(!). Look at the photos"

Let me remind you of my question
"9) Unless I missed it, the SNP leadership race is still going on. Does Tony know the result in advance? Is it another Euro fix? Are the Scots in secret alliance with the French?"

The last 2 lines of my post are obvious whimsy. The question asked was "Is the SNP leadership race still going on"

Tony
"P.S. You asked about Scottish Councils flying E.U. flags. There are loads of them"

Name one then. I named one that flies the Saltire whenever it can. I assume you can guess which party runs the council.

I've always found the Rangers/Celtic thing a bit weird.

Normally proud saltire waving scots flying the Irish flag? Sounds a bit iffy to me!

I get confused to whether it's a international match or a local one!!

"they are required to wear black (whilst the Pope wears white) as a 'sign of repentance"




????? Really!?!?!?! I don't see why, we aren't Catholic- this is an Anglican nation, and proud of it. The papacy can go jump.

<<????? Really!?!?!?! I don't see why, we aren't Catholic- this is an Anglican nation, and proud of it. The papacy can go jump>>

Actually it's a "protestant" country if you look from a non-conformist (ie how I'm getting married for example) way.

The 'wearing black' thing was protocol, I thought

re (Bryan Parry): 'they are required to wear black (whilst the Pope wears white) as a 'sign of repentance"

????? Really!?!?!?! I don't see why, we aren't Catholic- this is an Anglican nation, and proud of it. The papacy can go jump.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REPLY: You don't get to meet the Pope if you don't fulfil the conditions. American leaders are also required to wear black - see photos of recent Bush visit to the Pope. This is euphemistically called 'protocol' by the British press; for some reason, no-one ever bothers to tell us that the Vatican has laid down these rules.

But when the Irish President Mrs Robinson met the Pope last year, she wore bright green! Remember that Queen Elizabeth II was required to wear black when she meet the Pope

Without sounding like a nutcase, the highest power on earth for me is the Monarch of this nation. The pope holds no loyalty of mine, and Her Majesty is far above the Pope as far as I am concerned. I see not why she should have to conform to his rules; perhaps he should conform to the monarch's rules. The pope means nothing to me and I do not respect him.

SteveH

You beat me to it re "Anglican"!!!

Celtic/Rangers want into the English Premiership.

40 other clubs in the SPL/SFL would be delighted to get rid of them.

You are right though, it's more of an international than a local derby.

If they ever are allowed into your leagues, you would quickly see the racist, sectarian & bigoted side of their support that is usually glossed over by the media. I wouldn't wish them on anybody.



Tony

Its obviously taking you some time to total up these numbers!




I ask again, has there ever been a more "off topic" thread than this one?

I am still not sure I follow this protestant/Anglican distinction that is being made in this context.

Bryan

Just home....

You quote

"I don't understand the above over-reaction by Berenger. Scotland and England are one country, joined at the hip, and long may it be that way."

and

"I am still not sure I follow this protestant/Anglican distinction that is being made in this context."

Bryan, if you don't understand, try looking at the definition of "Anglican". SteveH and I are making the same point. In fairness, Tony usually differentiates b/w English/British.

Please think before you post. England is not the UK.

The "Queen of England" has a slightly different meaning from the "Queen of Scots" Currently Liz I of GB fills both posts.

In England, it is supposedly a divine right.

In Scotland, the people can remove the monarch if the people feel that it is right to do so.

But, pure-birthright has not always been followed in England, usually through religious reasons.

Is someone better than you because of who your mum or dad was?

Englan is not the UK.. but I am not gettign further involved in this debate as I am only going to offend you.

Yeah - We'll never agree on this & I've probably offended you too.
Lets get back to weights & measures!

Tony

You still seem to be taking your time to total up your answers to my questions above. How about I give the answers that I suspect are the correct ones, and you tell me if I am wrong.

1) How many UKIP representatives (at any level) are currently representing Scottish seats and at what level of government?
Answer - None

2) If they do have elected representatives on Scottish local authorities, do they contol or hold the balance of power on any of these authorities?
Answer - No

3) In the recent European election, how many UKIP candidates had Scottish home addresses?
Answer - None. (There is a J Smith of Ayrshire who writes pro-UKIP letters to the Scotsman & Herald though)

4) In the recent European Election Scottish Consituency, Scottish Labour got most votes (2 seats), followed (in order) by the SNP (2 seats), Scottish Conservatives (2 seats) and the Scottish Liberal Democrats (1 seat). The next 3 were the Scottish Greens, Scottish Socialist Party & UKIP (in alphabetical order).I honestly cannot recall the order that they finished in but suspect that the UKIP were 6th or 7th. Can you confirm? (I apologise if they were in fact 5th, but remember it being quite close between those 3 parties)

Answer - I checked

10 th June 2004 European Election
Scottish vote
Party Votes % % change
Labour 310,865 26.4 % - 2.3 %
Scottish National Party 231,505 19.7 % - 7.5 %
Conservative & Unionist Party 209,028 17.8 % - 2.0 %
Liberal Democrats 154,178 13.1 % + 3.3 %
Scottish Green Party 79,695 6.8 % + 1.0 %
UK Independence Party 78,828 6.7 % + 5.4 %
Scottish Socialist Party 61,356 5.2 % + 1.2 %
Operation Christian Vote 21,056 1.8 % + 1.8 %
British National Party 19,427 1.7 % + 1.3 %
Scottish Wind Watch 7,255 0.6 % + 0.6 %
Independent (Tait) 3,624 0.3 % 0.3 %

A poor election for 3 of the 4 main parties in Scotland - all saw their percentage of the vote drop, but only Labour lost a seat due to the reduction from 8 to 7 seats in Scotland. Otherwise it is as you were.

Interestingly, the UKIP was beaten by 2 parties that advocate an independent Scotland - the SNP & the Greens. The SSP also campaign for independence. The actual total for Pro-Independence parties was therefore 31.7%.

The UKIP vote would practically have to double again for them to win a Euro-seat in Scotland.

5) Is the SNP leadership race still going on
Answer - Yes
However, having reread Tony's post, and knowing his abilities to quote from documents dated 2009, I shall assume that his first answer was his prediction of the winner rather than a statement of fact.

6) You asked about Scottish Councils flying E.U. flags. There are loads of them

Answer - Yes, I have seen the EU flag on my travels around the country. I cannot recall where. With regard to council buildings, I have seen some with 3 flagpoles, and all 3 flying - with the Union flag on the highest pole.

I'll not believe your statement about councils flying the EU flag alone until you provide at least some proof.

Did I get all the answers right?

Argh, no, not again !!! :D Look, the way I see it Scotland doesn't really the option to remove the monarchy or to declare independence. Scotland and England are joined at the hip (and they are two who are not going to get a divorce). As for UKIP being an English party or a party only looking out for England, I would say that is not true. They are opposed to regional assemblies (rightly so), but that does not make them some England party. In fact, many people have argued England would be far better off without the burden of the poorer nations of the union (somethign the UKIP vehemently oppose)... however, I find that a dubious claim, and even if it could be proved, our union, whilst founded (officially*) based on the premise of a profitable partnership, will not disolve even if it would harm us economically to remain unified. There is no breaking us up.


* What I mean by this is that I view our English-Scottish-Irish union as preceding by far the acts of union in the 18th and 19th centuries (I have excepted Wales as Wales is sort of a peculiar part of England in a sense.. will offend Steve, but it is true that Wales has never been a nation in the way England, Scotland or Ireland have been- like I say, I mean that not in a derogatory way, but it is true)

Bryan - look up "Owain Glyndwr"

I'm a happy Welsh Unionist totally against Welsh independance, but this "anglican" thing is important to me as I didn't want to do my upcoming wedding in a "Church of England" church - so I'm having it in a non-conformist chapel.

My other half is happy with this since she would not be a hypocrite if she went to a C.O.E. church *or* non-conformist.

Also, to Berenger, its important to clarify that the current Queen was not crowned under the words "Queen of England" although she is head of the COE.

BTW the UKIP was this close (motions his finger and thumb to a distance of approximately half an inch) to getting a MEP in Wales.

Put that in your pipe and smoke is Rhodri bach!

P.S. I'm glad that paid are now showing their true colours - now lets watch as there % of vote goes down and "forward wales" goes up.

STOP SNORING!

Also, I must remind the congregation that it was a WELSH dynasty king that unified England and Wales - so perhaps England is actually part of East Glamorgan!!

;-)

And it was King James of Scotland (to be James I of England) who became king of Scotland and England when Elizabeth I died heirless. Yes, we are indivisible.

Pretty much one big family really

Yep, my point exactly. Joined, forever, and there can never be a time when Scotland will decide to break the union. It is not possible.

It is also important to note that she is the Queen of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and several other lands, NOT the Queen of Britain presiding over Australia, Canada, NZL etc.

the Olympic Games should be held in Britain and in IMPERIAL. It will draw huge crowds and international commitee attention to encourage and publicise our beautiful measures. Also I am recommending to commitees the encouragement of showing all prices during a Very British Olympics in shillings and guineas for the benefit and enjoyment of tourists and competitors alike. This will all be a huge draw card and help our bid.
Like ARM, I have started the BOMB campaign.
British. Olympics. Metric. Banishment.
We will see so many signs in metric and can ammend and eliminate them all from our imperial soil. Next year I intend to mark over all signs on London 10 K with appropriate miles/yards/furlongs/chains and feet. This will highlight our cause. Other than that we can continue with ARM and remove them. Yours Imperially and Britannicly,
Miles

This is probably the brother that euric (carlyle) has hated from birth - his arch nemesis!

lol

re (Beranger): "Tony. You still seem to be taking your time to total up your answers to my questions above. How about I give the answers that I suspect are the correct ones, and you tell me if I am wrong".

REPLY: I trifle harsh, I think, since I answered your questions six days ago on 10th Augsut - see higher up on this thread.

See other replies below

-----------------------------------------------------------
1) How many UKIP representatives (at any level) are currently representing Scottish seats and at what level of government?
Answer - None

REPLY: Agreed
----------------------------------------------------------
2) If they do have elected representatives on Scottish local authorities, do they contol or hold the balance of power on any of these authorities?
Answer - No

REPLY: Agreed
-----------------------------------------------------------
3) In the recent European election, how many UKIP candidates had Scottish home addresses?
Answer - None. (There is a J Smith of Ayrshire who writes pro-UKIP letters to the Scotsman & Herald though)

REPLY: Incorrect. Out of 7 candidates, I think 5 had Scottish addresses. But I may be wrong. I've no swift way of checking
-----------------------------------------------------------
4) In the recent European Election Scottish Consituency, Scottish Labour got most votes (2 seats), followed (in order) by the SNP (2 seats), Scottish Conservatives (2 seats) and the Scottish Liberal Democrats (1 seat). The next 3 were the Scottish Greens, Scottish Socialist Party & UKIP (in alphabetical order).I honestly cannot recall the order that they finished in but suspect that the UKIP were 6th or 7th. Can you confirm? (I apologise if they were in fact 5th, but remember it being quite close between those 3 parties)

Answer - I checked

10th June 2004 European Election
Scottish vote
Party Votes % % change
Labour 310,865 26.4 % - 2.3 %
Scottish National Party 231,505 19.7 % - 7.5 %
Conservative & Unionist Party 209,028 17.8 % - 2.0 %
Liberal Democrats 154,178 13.1 % + 3.3 %
Scottish Green Party 79,695 6.8 % + 1.0 %
UK Independence Party 78,828 6.7 % + 5.4 %
Scottish Socialist Party 61,356 5.2 % + 1.2 %
Operation Christian Vote 21,056 1.8 % + 1.8 %
British National Party 19,427 1.7 % + 1.3 %
Scottish Wind Watch 7,255 0.6 % + 0.6 %
Independent (Tait) 3,624 0.3 % 0.3 %

A poor election for 3 of the 4 main parties in Scotland - all saw their percentage of the vote drop, but only Labour lost a seat due to the reduction from 8 to 7 seats in Scotland. Otherwise it is as you were.

Interestingly, the UKIP was beaten by 2 parties that advocate an independent Scotland - the SNP & the Greens. The SSP also campaign for independence. The actual total for Pro-Independence parties was therefore 31.7%.

The UKIP vote would practically have to double again for them to win a Euro-seat in Scotland.

REPLY: I'm quite happy that the UKIP vote went up 5.4% and the SNP slumped by 7.5%. A swing from SNP to UKIP of over 6%
-----------------------------------------------------------
5) Is the SNP leadership race still going on
Answer - Yes
However, having re-read Tony's post, and knowing his abilities to quote from documents dated 2009, I shall assume that his first answer was his prediction of the winner rather than a statement of fact.

REPLY: If I'm wrong about Alex Salmond becoming SNP Leader, I'll (SNIPPED)
-----------------------------------------------------------
6) You asked about Scottish Councils flying E.U. flags. There are loads of them

Answer - Yes, I have seen the EU flag on my travels around the country. I cannot recall where. With regard to council buildings, I have seen s