Fiction: Consumers and retailers should be free to use the units they prefer

Fact: Freedom of choice entails chaos and fraud

Consistent rules for pricing and measuring are fundamental to honest and fair trade.

A single approved system of units for weighing has been historically a key method to protect the consumer. Uniformity of measures is prescribed in both the Magna Carta and Act of Union between England and Scotland.

If shopkeepers are free to choose their units for pricing goods, price transparency is lost. How can anyone know whether a shop selling bananas at 45p/lb is more expensive than another selling at 92p/kg without using a calculator? Equally, if shopkeepers were able to choose any system with which to measure their goods, you would start seeing bushels, pecks and hogsheads.

The transition from using gallons to litres in filling stations, where price per unit is less because the unit is smaller happened smoothly almost overnight, while the transition from pounds to kilograms, where price per unit is more because the unit is larger, has met with resistance.


Fiction: The case of the so-called "metric martyrs" is about "freedom of commercial speech"

Fact: Weights and measures are merely tools for comparing price and value for money

If unrestricted expression is allowed in trade, the consumer always suffers. This is why for example the degree of expression allowed by estate agents has been curbed.

Adopting the metric system does not stop the use linguistic expressions like "a pound of flesh" from being used. Indeed many cultures continue to use pre-metric units in everyday expressions.

I got to here:

"Fact: Freedom of choice entails chaos and fraud"

And stopped.

I'd find more informative facts in my Viz comic.

Just for a change, SteveH, why not try addressing the points raised in a post rather than just chucking in cheap and childish one-liners ?

It's called "debating".

Go on. Give it a go. You may just suprise yourself !

I agree.. but when we look at Princess Carlidala's posts we see that in fact he spouts vasts amounts of poo.

Indeed it is seen that Carlotta has indeed brought forward a long trickle of poo.

If we trust the force...
If we use use the force...

maybe, just maybe his terrible onslaught of rubbish can be destroyed forever.

May the FFU be with him.

SteveH:

got to here:

"Fact: Freedom of choice entails chaos and fraud"

And stopped.

I'd find more informative facts in my Viz comic.

Stan:

You are taking it out of context. If you present the phrase by itself of course it looks like nonsense, but it specifically refers to the situation in which traders are free to choose units of measurement.

As a matter of fact, I really don't see why allowing traders to use any system they wish would entail chaos. In fact, any trader that chose to go against the thread, so to speak, would quickly be put out of business. It would be in the best interest of traders who are selling things cheaper to show prices in terms of units that are comparable to other traders, in order to attract customers.

"Chaos" has seen Tesco profits rocket.
And my shares in Tesco.

Seems like "chaos" is a great idea if you avoid the dictionary

Re: Freedom of Choice October 6 2004, 11:10 PM

Bud:
As a matter of fact, I really don't see why allowing traders to use any system they wish would entail chaos. In fact, any trader that chose to go against the thread, so to speak, would quickly be put out of business. It would be in the best interest of traders who are selling things cheaper to show prices in terms of units that are comparable to other traders, in order to attract customers.

metre:
You would do well to read Dr. Collins essay.

SteveH: YOU'D do well to grab a dose of reality

Re: Freedom of Choice October 7 2004, 9:19 PM


Re: Freedom of Choice October 6 2004, 11:10 PM

Bud:
As a matter of fact, I really don't see why allowing traders to use any system they wish would entail chaos. In fact, any trader that chose to go against the thread, so to speak, would quickly be put out of business. It would be in the best interest of traders who are selling things cheaper to show prices in terms of units that are comparable to other traders, in order to attract customers.

metre:
You would do well to read Dr. Collins essay.

Silence, absolute silence, not a word to say in his defense.

And what was your defense? You referred me to an essay written by a pro-metric. I could easily respond something silly like "You would do well to look at the BWMA website" or something, but I thought it was self evident.

Re: Freedom of Choice October 11 2004, 1:03 PM

BUD:
And what was your defense? You referred me to an essay written by a pro-metric. I could easily respond something silly like "You would do well to look at the BWMA website" or something, but I thought it was self evident.

metre:
This may help. In every argument both sides have to bring verifiable pros and contras. So far neither you, nor anybody else, has come up with anything that renders either Phelps' or Dr. Collins findings false. Till you do that their conlusions must stand.
If you refer me to any post on sites here that proves rationally that imperial units are not cumbersome compared to metric ones, I am more than willing to look at them.

" Phelps' or Dr. Collins "

Am I right in saying that these are just two people in a world of XXXX million?

Am I also right in saying that if eric had said "Imperial was invented by one eyed self-abusers from Jupiter" to which no-one responds - then that means that eric is unanimously correct and that he should quite rightly post something about no-one answering because we all agree with him?

What an amazing existance.

<<
This may help. In every argument both sides have to bring verifiable pros and contras. So far neither you, nor anybody else, has come up with anything that renders either Phelps' or Dr. Collins findings false. Till you do that their conlusions must stand.
>>

Carlyle, any scientist will tell you that in order to disprove something, all you need do is show that the method of gathering the data was flawed. It is not necessary to find evidence to the contrary in order to disprove something. We have already shown you that the two studies you cited were flawed in methodology.

Re: Freedom of Choice October 12 2004, 5:28 PM

metre:
<<
This may help. In every argument both sides have to bring verifiable pros and contras. So far neither you, nor anybody else, has come up with anything that renders either Phelps' or Dr. Collins findings false. Till you do that their conlusions must stand.
>>
Bud:
Carlyle, any scientist will tell you that in order to disprove something, all you need do is show that the method of gathering the data was flawed. It is not necessary to find evidence to the contrary in order to disprove something. We have already shown you that the two studies you cited were flawed in methodology.

metre:
Show me the methotology that supports your assertion.

Bud wrote

<<
Carlyle, any scientist will tell you that in order to disprove something, all you need do is show that the method of gathering the data was flawed.
>>

Bud's logic is wrong here. Invalidating a proof (which can happen when the means of gathering the data was flawed) does not disprove the statement.

For example - I pace out 100m and mark both the start and the end points. I then wait until I see you driving along and count "one - two - three - four - five - six" as you pass between the two markers. I then ask the police to charge you for driving at 60km/h in a 50km/h zone. Any charge that is made against you will be thrown out - the method by which I collected the data was unsound. THis does not mean that you were not driving at 60 km/h - it merely means that nobody knows how fast yo were travelling.

The one way to disprove the allegation that you were travelling at 60 km/h is to provide a proof that you were travelling at 50 km/h.

Bud:
<<
Carlyle, any scientist will tell you that in order to disprove something, all you need do is show that the method of gathering the data was flawed.

Martin:
Bud's logic is wrong here. Invalidating a proof (which can happen when the means of gathering the data was flawed) does not disprove the statement.

metre:
At no stage has Bud, or anyone else shown that the method of gathering was flawed. All he voiced was an opinion. No hard facts whatever were supplied to refute either study. Till he and his imperial mates do, both conclusions stand.

Sorry, I meant to say that exposing a flaw in the methodology makes it POSSIBLE that whatever was supposed to be proved is not true. It does not necessarily prove the converse.
Sorry if I was unclear there.

"The one way to disprove the allegation that you were travelling at 60 km/h is to provide a proof that you were travelling at 50 km/h."

And thats pretty difficult to do in the UK, isn't it?
You know, with all signs and speedos in mph

Signs do not measure speeds - they tell you what teh maximum (or minimum) permitted speed is. UK Speedo's are dual unit. What is the problem?

Anyway, who said that my logic applies only in the UK?

Signs do not measure speeds - they tell you what teh maximum (or minimum) permitted speed is. UK Speedo's are dual unit. What is the problem?

Anyway, who said that my logic applies only in the UK?



But all UK speedometers DO have a km/h display and it IS possible to drive down a road in the UK at 60 km/h and know it.

It is even possible in the US, as all cars there also have km/h in the display.

Carly is unaware at the tiny print of the kmh numbers and that the pointer obliterates them.

He's also unaware of the digital style ones that don't show kmh.

And that TVR's, for example, have there own "style" (they use mph divided by ten!!!).

Tis a good point to be made about safety though.

You know "Oooh lets see I'm doing ...erm ....erm .... yes, its 50 kilometres per....[CRASH]"

SteveH wrote

<<
He's also unaware of the digital style ones that don't show kmh.
>>

I was under the impression that digital style speedo's had a switch so tht you could set them for mph or km/h.

erm - when they show mph they don't show kmh.

Leaving Carly ni floods of tears