America is not only settled with medieval measurements, but a medieval voting system as well. That system is open to fraud, abuses and manipulation of all kinds. Just to mention one. Florida requires its voters to prove US citizenship. They have to fill in a lengthy questionare to do that. Florida's Secretary of State Glenda Hood, who is accused of doing almost anything for her appointer Governor Jeb Bush, made sure many of these registration forms never count. Tucked away somewhere in it is a box that has to be ticked to complete the signed registration. Whether you furnished proof of citizenship or not is of no consequence if you forgot, or missed to tick that box. Your registration is invalid. That box is now deemed an impediment to exercise your voting right and is challenged in court.
There are many more different examples on the republican side trying to thwart voters intentions to vote. If the vote is too close to call, America will revisit 2000 and let an unelected court decide, who won. And this is the country that wants to export its Democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq.

The above post proves once and for all that it is America he hates, not the imperial measurement system.

US democracy?
October 24 2004 at 9:35 PMRe: US democracy? October 24 2004, 11:12 PM


Bud:
The above post proves once and for all that it is America he hates, not the imperial measurement system.

metre:
Oh, life is so easy if you shoot the messenger, after all you don't have to listen to bad news.
Jumping to conclusions are we? Can't take justified criticism of a corrupt voting system, can you?
These are the real problems that should exercise non-thinking Americans ignorant minds, not the retention of obsolete measurements.

What is so unreasonable about proving you are a citizen in a country where there are so many foreigners?

(everyone forgive my ignorance of the USelectoral system).

The above post proves once and for all that it is America he hates, not the imperial measurement system.


Now that is a typical American response. When you can't disprove what the person sates, you call them "Fill in the blank" hater.

The above post shows that this person doesn't know much about registering to vote in Florida. When I turned 18 and registered I didn't have to go through any hoops to register; I simply filled out the SIMPLE form and mailed it, a little while later I got my voter registration card in the mail.

This election I was a volunteer to help people register to vote, a majority of the people I assisted where immigrants from Latin America and the Philippines. Once again all that was needed was to fill out a simple form no hoops no tricks. Want to see the form? Go here http://election.dos.state.fl.us/regtovote/webappform.pdf (the forms also come in Spanish for non-English speaking Floridians)

Any one that knows how many inches are in a foot can fill it out.

As you can see the only 'complicated and confusing' thing you need is a FL drivers license or ID card; if you don't have that there is a long list of other things you can use. If you have difficulty doing any of that anyone at the Supervisor of Elections office will be able to walk the person through what to do. Not to mention local republican and democratic headquarters would surly be willing to assist as well. It is EASY to tell if you were properly registered because you receive a voter registration card. No fear of something being lost in a basement under cobwebs; you don't get your card simply call and inquire what happened!! I'm sorry but Florida does indeed do what it can to make the process simple and fair; there will always be yellow journalism that will go to lengths to prove otherwise, but they just don't have the evidence. As for people that find this too complicated, I wish they wouldn't vote at all; they also wouldn't be competent enough to vote on decisions that impact me.

Re: US democracy? October 25 2004, 6:49 AM

Bryan:
What is so unreasonable about proving you are a citizen in a country where there are so many foreigners?

(everyone forgive my ignorance of the USelectoral system).

metre:
There is no problem with proving your citizenship. There is a problem with requiring to tick a deliberately unnecessary box to validate your registration.

Proud Florida ......
The above post shows that this person doesn't know much about registering to vote in Florida. When I turned 18 and registered I didn't have to go through any hoops to register; I simply filled out the SIMPLE form and mailed it, a little while later I got my voter registration card in the mail.

metre:
Thanks for the link.
Proximity does not guarantee impartiality. I am rather inclined to believe a journalist of a reputable English news paper investigating Florida's voter registration process than somebody I don't know. Looking at the registration forms supports his findings. Less eduated Florida citizens and non English speakers, who in general are not well educated either, have no hope to fill these forms correctly in. If they require help and they most certainly do, how do they know their application was correctly processed?
Judging by the lawyers employed on both sides to scrutinise the voter registration process on both sides inicates that something is drastically wrong with your election process.

Here is a link to an investigation into the Florida voter disenfranchisement in 2000. That presidential election was tame compared to this one.

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/trans.htm

Any one that knows how many inches are in a foot can fill it out.


That must be about 3 people.

You have to remember that the groups that challenge voting rules are not independent organizations acting in the people's best interests, they are partisan organizations doing whatever it takes to help their candidates. Since less educated people are more likely to be Democrats, groups that support Democrat policies will fight to make the forms simpler. The question becomes, is this a legitimate concern that people will lose the vote they are entitled to, or is it simply an excuse designed to skew the results in favor of one party?

>>Any one that knows how many inches are in a foot can fill it out.
>
>That must be about 3 people.


um..in these parts I don't know anyone that doesn't know how many inches are in a foot. The statement was meant to refer to the fact that EVERYONE can do it. Even people that are not from the US, that I know, quickly learn the basics of our system of measurement with no problem (if they don't they wouldn't be able to interact with others and would even have difficulty buying food and other items). My professors at school tend to use inches, feet, yards, etc. when speaking about subjects, this includes one professor that is not a native born US citizen. Only for very small and precise measurements to they use metric. Even my chemistry professor uses inch pound terms in the lab.

By the way, I would rather see us go completely metric; but, I will admit that 'US Customary' is NOT difficult and is very easy to use and understand.

Re: US democracy? October 26 2004, 5:16 PM

Bud:
You have to remember that the groups that challenge voting rules are not independent organizations acting in the people's best interests, they are partisan organizations doing whatever it takes to help their candidates. Since less educated people are more likely to be Democrats, groups that support Democrat policies will fight to make the forms simpler. The question becomes, is this a legitimate concern that people will lose the vote they are entitled to, or is it simply an excuse designed to skew the results in favor of one party?

metre:
Let's try again. In a democracy every person deemed eligible should have one vote. That can only be achieved if the criteria of voter registrations are simple and identical throughout the land. That is not the case in America. Many States have voter registrations forms of varying complexity. Some are purposely designed to disenfranchise certain groups, others have different criteria to prevent felons from voting and placement of voting locations can be deliberately manipulated to make voting for some voters more difficult. That negates the fundamental democratic principle of equality of the voting process. To achieve that, States have to cede that process in federal elections to an independent federal Electoral Commission that guarantees uniformity and impartiality of the voting process nation wide. Something States are not prepared to do in the name of "democracy". That renders America's democracy undemocratic in the guise of making democracy as democratic as possible. (Diluting Power). Litigation is not the answer to that problem, uniformity is.

metre, you obviously don't understand the American political system. There is really no such thing as a "federal election" per se. When we vote for president, we are actually casting a ballot for an elector that is pledged to a certain political party. Under the federal constitution, the president and vice president are elected by an electoral college consisting of members that each state appoints, in whatever manner it sees fit.
And where do you draw the line regarding what is simple enough? You have to check a box to confirm that you are eligible to vote, and people say that is too complicated. On the registration form here, it asks for a home address as well as a mailing address, if different. Will someone sue and say that is too complicated?

metre, you obviously don't understand the American political system. There is really no such thing as a "federal election" per se. When we vote for president, we are actually casting a ballot for an elector that is pledged to a certain political party. Under the federal constitution, the president and vice president are elected by an electoral college consisting of members that each state appoints, in whatever manner it sees fit.

metre:
Please don't lecture me on US elections. I am quite aware of your collegiate system. What you don't seem to understand is that it is precisely that voting process that causes the problems and make you the laughing stock of the world. Putting States in charge of voting proceedures that can vary from one to next is open to political manipulation. To overcome that problem my solution is only one among many and I am sure much better ones.

Bud:
And where do you draw the line regarding what is simple enough?

metre:
Common sense, something often lacking in the US political process.

Bud:
You have to check a box to confirm that you are eligible to vote, and people say that is too complicated. On the registration form here, it asks for a home address as well as a mailing address, if different. Will someone sue and say that is too complicated?

metre:
Inform yourself before you tell the world that your byzantine voting system causes no problems. There are plenty reputable articles out there listing a plethora of reasons why it is flawed.

As I said before, your voting systems also shows that too much democracy can be undemocratic. Something Yanks need yet to learn.

Just to keep this subject going, 60,000 absentee votes lost in Florida? My, my what a beautiful democracy?
It took some time for the world at large to twig that America's democracy is as flawed as their obsolete measurements. For anyone with open eyes that fact was obvious years ago when millions of Black Americans were routinly deprived of their democratic voting rights. What the world has yet to learn is that American magement of anything is not as competent as they claim. A nation with a medieval measuring system can't be leader in efficieny as most US economic and social data shows.

This still ain't relevant.

November 1 2004, 3:12 AM


????
This still ain't relevant.

metre:
Seems nothing is relevant in Yankeeland.