I am 15 years old. In school we have no choice but to use metric, the only term we learn about our imperial units is in year 9 and only then we learn to convert. I am sick of metric being forced on this GREAT country as it is destroying traditions. I wonder if any of the political parties at the moment propose to re-introduce the imperial units in Great Britain?

When I was your age, I thought the same way. Then reality hit me over the head with a mallet and I came to my senses quickly. When I completed my studies, it was time to look for a job. The employment office sent me to companies that matched my qualifications. I was both shocked and outraged to discover that industry used only metric. During the interview I expressed by displeasure with seeing only metric and no imperial measures. It bothered me, just like it is bothering you.

Well to say the least, none of the companies would hire me. I eventually did get hired at a company, but not for the position I was qualified. I took the opportunity to ask my fellow employees why they were using metric and not imperial. It turned out they had no choice. The market demanded it. Customers demanded it. The suppliers only provided components in metric. And most important of all, the Enginners and the factory personel wanted it. Metric opens up markets. Metric means jobs with better salaries. Metric leads to prosperity.

Now if you are not planning on a career that offer an excellant salary with exceptional benefits, then allow your hatred of metric to fester. If you will satisfied to work as a janitor scubbing toilets, or a burger flipper for McDonalds, etc, then you don't need metric. However, if you want to work outside of the gutter, then you better change that attitude quickly or you will be nothing more then a gutter snipe.

The choice is yours!

Ryan,

If you are indeed a genuine poster, read up about the history of metrication in Britain. You will then discover that opponents of metrication tend to bend the truth in order to gain popular support. The myth of metric being imposed on us by the EU is sadly widely believed as our politicians have done nothing to counter that view.

Our country will not remain GREAT unless we move with the times. Units of measurement serve one purpose - to measure. Do not be fooled into thinking that modernising our system of weights and measures is taking away anything of value from our great country.

Ryan,

If yuo check up on you history you will see that (apart from the gallon), English weights and measures reached a degree of stability during the early Tudor years. This sort of stability was not present in any other European countries and was achieved by means of what some regard as draconian measures. At any rate the early Tudor kings used the best technology of the day.

During the late Tudor era the decimal system of denoting fractions was developed by Stevin (too late for the early Tudor's to use). When however the French revolutionaries were trying to sort out their system of measure the decimal system of denoting fractions was well established, so, like the early Tudors, they made use of the best technology of the day.

There you have it - by continuing to use Imperial units you are allowing yourself to be caught in a medieval time-warp. You are also putting yourself in the position thatif you are to understand any information that is passed on to you, it will have to be "translated" into Imperial units. This gives the providers of information a hold over you as they will withold what they do not want you to see.

Ryan, do yourself a favour - learn the metric system and consign the Imperial system to the History books (where it belongs). Note, I did not say that the Imperial system is without merit, but rather like your grandparents, should be respected in its retirement.

I always note the way the more "hardened" pro-metrics hate it when young people express a like of traditional UK units.

And then do the "clicke" thing and talk down to them.

The worst pro-metrics are the older ones - they really have a chip on their shoulder.

Ryan - try to take "the enforcers" who post here with a pinch of salt. Ther eis nothing wrong with holding an opinion hat runs contrary to others - especially one that runs contrary to minority opinion. It is your opinion and so long as its well calculated and founded upon a real desire, viewpoint, outlook or even feeling then you can take those who insult you or belittle you as being -in reality- beneath you.

No two people have the exact same opinion - this is what creates "humanity".

However don't be tempted to gloat at being in the majority as there are many highly-powered people out there who want to force the minority opinion out of existence thought state power (which can usually be traced back to the EU which less than 50% of us actually want!).

And in particular - don't get hood winked by anonymous posters (or should I say 'posers') who are really from Australia who still have a hang up about still doing lobby work at MacDonalds (Aus) Ltd.

oops! typo!

Replace:

"However don't be tempted to gloat at being in the majority as there are many highly-powered people out there who want to force the minority opinion out of existence thought state power (which can usually be traced back to the EU which less than 50% of us actually want!)."

with

"However don't be tempted to gloat at being in the majority as there are many highly-powered people out there who want to force the majority into a minority opinion and then out of existence thought state power (which can usually be traced back to the EU which less than 50% of us actually want!)."

Dear Ryan Langley,

Here are my observations on the posts by Andy and martin:

"If you are indeed a genuine poster..."

ANSWER: I am inclined to believe that you are

"...read up about the history of metrication in Britain"

ANSWER: In which case, you will find that metric has been legal in Britain for 108 years - since 1897 - and until enforced metrication started coming in in the 1970s, no-one bothered to switch because, well, the Imperial system worked fine and people were happy with it

"You will then discover that opponents of metrication tend to bend the truth in order to gain popular support..."

ANSWER: The opposite is true. Andy will be hard put to it to find one example of people on our side 'bending the truth'. On the other side, the government has frequently said - and written - that metrication would only proceed on a vountary basis - a lie. The Labour government said in 1997, on reaching power, that they were completely reviewing metrication and gave a clear impression that they might not, after all, bring in criminalisation of selling in pounds and ounces. A deliberately false impression was given - then on the last Friday afternoon of the Parliament, in the summer 1999 session, they quietly released a press announcement that a report was to be placed in the House of Commons library - in which, of course, there was the proposal that traders could be fined of up to £5,000 after 1 January 2000 for selling in pounds and ounces.

"The myth of metric being imposed on us by the EU is sadly widely believed as our politicians have done nothing to counter that view".

ANSWER: FACT: Britain is going metric because of Directive 80/181/EC and another one in 1989. Britain is only allowed to use measurements like the mile and the pint by consent of the E.U., which has allowed us a 'derogation', in plain English, permission to keep the mile and pint for a little bit longer, until is is 'safe' from a public opinion point of view to abolish them (not long now, as there's more interest in 'Big Brother' and 'Pop Idol' than voting in a General Election)

"Our country will not remain GREAT unless we move with the times..."

ANSWER: It became GREAT during a period when we used only Imperial weights and measures - and our continental rivals were busy switching to metric. The French, by the way, called us "GREAT" to distinguish our 'Bretagne' from their own 'Bretagne' (Brittany)

"Units of measurement serve one purpose - to measure"

ANSWER: Profound, that

"Do not be fooled into thinking that modernising our system of weights and measures is taking away anything of value from our great country".

ANSWER: No doubt Andy would also say that about all the old churches and buildings which litter our countryside and could so easily be replaced by modern, energy-efficient ones. Maybe we should also 'modernise' our police, and place them above the law, with complete immunity from prosecution, like the EUROPOL officers set up by the European Union

"If you check up on your history you will see that (apart from the gallon), English weights and measures reached a degree of stability during the early Tudor years. This sort of stability was not present in any other European countries and was achieved by means of what some regard as draconian measures"

ANSWER: Not to put to fine a point, nonsense. Measurements like the foot, pound, yard, etc. were gradually standardised hundreds of years ago and action taken mainly to ensure that people did not mislead by using non-standard weights. There has always been effective legislation against 'false weights'

"At any rate, the early Tudor kings used the best technology of the day".

ANSWER: Just as non-metric Britain and the non-metric United States lead many world technologies today

"During the late Tudor era, the decimal system of denoting fractions was developed by Stevin (too late for the early Tudors to use). When however the French revolutionaries were trying to sort out their system of measurement..."

ANSWER: ...and abolish religion, establish a 10-day week and a 10-month year, bring in communism and lop off hundreds of thousands of aristocratic heads

"...the decimal system of denoting fractions was well established, so, like the early Tudors, they made use of the best technology of the day".

ANSWER: Not good enough to get the distance from the Equator to the North Pole right, though

"There you have it - by continuing to use Imperial units you are allowing yourself to be caught in a medieval time-warp".

ANSWER: No comment, except remember that comment above about 'bending the truth'?

"You are also putting yourself in the position that if you are to understand any information that is passed on to you, it will have to be 'translated' into Imperial units. This gives the providers of information a hold over you as they will withold what they do not want you to see".

ANSWER: A thoroughly nasty lot, these 'information-providers'. They're witholding things they don't want to to see all the time

"Ryan, do yourself a favour - learn the metric system"

ANSWER: You probably know the basics already - quite sufficient for all day-to-day purposes. Fortunately, you will have learned from your parents, friends, books, TV, the Internet, newspapers and magazines etc. all you really want to know about the 'real world' of Imperial measurements - without your 'teachers' ever having lifted a finger to help you with them!

"...and consign the Imperial system to the history books (where it belongs)..."

ANSWER: Though the world's most advanced country uses it

"Note, I did not say that the Imperial system is without merit, but rather like your grandparents, should be respected in its retirement..."

ANSWER: More like 'unfair dismissal' than 'retirement', if you catch my drift

Guess who's back, back again
Carlyle's back, tell a friend
Guess who's back, guess who's back
Guess who's back. guess who's back
Guess who's back, guess who's back, guess who's back

I changed my IP again, 'cos nobody wants to
See Carlyle no more they want Euric
I'm chopped liver
Well if you want Euric, then this is what I'll give ya
A little bit of mallet bashing mixed with some hard liquor
Some metric that will jumpstart my heart quicker
Then a shock when I get shocked at the hospital
By the real world when I'm not cooperating
When I'm rocking the scales while the bacon he's weighing

So the USMA won't let me be
Or let me be me so they banned me see
They tried to shut me down cos of hegemony
But it feels so empty without me

And get ready, 'cos this is about to get high
I just settled all my lawsuits, **** you S.I.

Now this looks like a job for me
So everybody just laugh at me
'Cos we need a little controversy
'Cos it feels so factual without me

But sometimes man it just seems
Everybody only wants to discuss me
So this must mean I'm disgusting
But it's just me I'm just obscene

Though I'm not the first king of controversy
I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley
To bash my mallet so selfishly
And use it to get myself messy

Hey, there's a concept that works
20 million other burger salesmen emerge
But no matter how many kilograms I can see
It will be so empty without me

martin said that it was the Frenchmen Stevin who first devised the decimal system of expressing fractions. Well, according to this extract from an Ecyclopaedia on Islam, martin's wrong:
_____________________________________________________________________________

What is Taught:

The use of decimal fractions in mathematics was first developed by a Dutchman, Simon Stevin, in 1589. He helped advance the mathematical sciences by replacing the cumbersome fractions, for instance, 1/2, with decimal fractions, for example, 0.5.

What Should be Taught:

Muslim mathematicians were the first to utilize decimals instead of fractions on a large scale. Al-Kashi's book, Key to Arithmetic, was written at the beginning of the 15th century and was the stimulus for the systematic application of decimals to whole numbers and fractions thereof. It is highly probable* that Stevin imported the idea to Europe from al-Kashi's work.

[No actual evidence provided, though! - ed.]

Tony Bennett wrote

<<
martin said that it was the Frenchmen Stevin
>>

At no stage did I identify Stevin's nationality. In an earlier posting soem months ago I drew attention to the fact that he was a Protestant (who fled from Antwerpen to avoid prosecution). For the record I noted that it was a Catholic priest (Moulon) who first proposed a decimal-based system of measurement and that it was an Atheist government who first actually introduced a metric-based system of measure. What I was trying to show was that systems of measure are independent of religion (and also of politics unless one tries to win cheap points by pretending otherwise).

IO stand corrected about Stevin inventing decimals, but I did find the following when visiting
http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Stevin.html
<<
Although he did not invent decimals (they had been used by the Arabs and the Chinese long before Stevin's time) he did introduce their use in mathematics in Europe. Stevin states that the universal introduction of decimal coinage, measures and weights would only be a matter of time (but he probably would be amazed to know that in the 21st century some countries still resist adopting decimal systems).
>>

Ryan,

I think the best way to handle units of measurement is to try to eliminate any prejudices from your mind. Most people can easily learn both systems if they want/need to. I suggest we simply use whichever one is more appropriate for the circumstances, i.e., whichever is used by the industry or whichever we find to be more convenient. On one side, people claim that the imperial system represents a part of our culture and history, and on the other side people claim that standardisation is necessary for the economy. My position is that Britain and the US should use metric for purposes in which it is already well established (such as medicine) or for international purposes (trade), and imperial units for everything else (such as labels in shops).

Hi Ryan, nice to see another young one, as it were, who likes Imperial (I am only 20 and have been on this board since I was 17, I think). All the best,

Bryan

re (martin): "Although he did not invent decimals (they had been used by the Arabs and the Chinese long before Stevin's time) he did introduce their use in mathematics in Europe. Stevin states that the universal introduction of decimal coinage, measures and weights would only be a matter of time (but he probably would be amazed to know that in the 21st century some countries still resist adopting decimal systems).

REPLY: Poor Stevin, whether French or Dutch, he'd have a hard time coping with a 'quarterpounder', half a pint, and three quarters of an hour...what a relief, though, that we're all spared having to work out what 'half a crown' is.

'Ang on - just 'alf a tick, mate

Bry - "I am only 20 and have been on this board since I was 17, I think"

Did you know that's around one fifth of you life then? <GULP>

Mind you - I've been here since my lower twenties.

Oh God.

Can't be as bad as the "ignored one" - he's been here since retirement!!!!

Love the eminem stuff! LOL!

You weren't meant to laugh.

It is not my intention to humour imperialists. Not when I have a mallet handy for that.

Ryan,

I would be interested to hear what imperial units of measurement you would like to see re-introduced and why (there are many of them).

I would also be interested to hear what great British traditions you value apart from units of measurement.

Hope I am not talking down to you.

Stan,

I hate to say it, but with the filthy bilge spouted out by hate-merchant Euric aka Carlyle aka Ametrica (now known as 'anonymous') I don't suspect we will see him here again.

Also I don't think Ryan wants old imperial units re-introduced. I don't think many of us favour the return of the grain, peck, bushel etc - they've been evolved out by better imperial units.

I can understand your frustration though - young people preferring the imperial system.

You can always pretend that its not wide-spread.

Yes, for me an ideal Imperial system, as it were, for everyday units would consist of:

dram
ounce
pound
hundredweight
ton

inch
foot
yard
mile

Cubic feet
cubic inches
fluidounces
pints
gallons


I think that is about it. Now I know I am mostly alone with my love of all thigns dram, but still- a typical metric tact is to try to used no more used units agaisnt Imperial (like the troy pound, or whatever), or units with such incredibly limited currency as to be irrelevant (e.g. the firkin, one notes that such units tend ot exist in metric too). And then of course, any metric supporters will argue that those units only exist because of metric killing Imperial off- yet more garbage.

*that those units only do not exist