http://www.mail-archive.com/usma@colostate.edu/msg22863.html

UK is more metric than some think

Go to the above link and read what a resident of London (someone who lives in the UK and knows the reality) is saying about metric being used more and more by ordinary people in the UK.

Would someone care to explain why this person's perception of metric in the UK differs from SteveH's?

http://www.mail-archive.com/usma@colostate.edu/msg22864.html

The link you provided only validates mt statement that your perception is different from his. I'm asking why!

Why do you say most people use imperial and he says most people use metric. Both of you can'r be right. Or are you wearing filters in your ears that prevent you from hearing metric terms?


Anyone else from the UK want to answer the question?

"Or are you wearing filters in your ears that prevent you from hearing metric terms?"

Yeah, that must be it.

http://www.mail-archive.com/usma@colostate.edu/msg22868.html

Very powerful! Are you going to jump on him for "insulting" you by associating your perception as being from "rural Wales"?

Association:

Uses metric = modern, cosmopolitan and intelligent
Uses imperial = rural, backwards, out of step, pagan

Got to support Steve on this one

I believe that Steve stays near a large English city - and supports imperial.

I stay in the back of beyond - and support metric.

Or perhaps I'm "rural, backwards, out of step, pagan"

Let's get away from the insults....... (Except me & TB.......)
:-) :-) :-) JOKE!!!!!!

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Without ErrorNB doing his usual crass insult-people-win-argument routine my plan will never come to fruition!!!

Hey, maybe we should all enroll onto the USMA listserv "club"!
It's simple to do, but I'm not going to post all the instructions here!!!

Since the stable, down to earth, moderate fella is posting pages from that USMA server's archives lets try this one for size:

http://www.mail-archive.com/usma@colostate.edu/msg22869.html

Oops! "balance"

"Got to support Steve on this one"

Cheek! I'd flipping well hope that you, a pro-metric supporter, would support me over the rages and screams of someone that neither the pro-metric, pro-choice or pro-imperial side wants to be associated with!!!

Having said that - he's a very good spokesman for the pro-imperial side. Which you'll *KNOW* what I mean!!

:-D

Heh!

<<<Having said that - he's a very good spokesman for the pro-imperial side. Which you'll *KNOW* what I mean!!>>>

I disagree. Someone who spouts absolute nonsense on an anonymous internet messageboard is not a spokesman for either side.

Oooh! Ark at you!

(well said though!!)

For the record this is what the poster on the American forum (David King) actually said:

"Stephen, we move in different circles. You are in rural Wales, I
frequent the City of London. From your observations it would appear that
where you live people are still way behind London. You cannot really
state that something I said is pure fantasy, I am specifically and
honestly stating that people in London DO refer to distances in metres
and not in yards. I am not saying that everyone does, just that lately I
have ONLY heard metres used and not yards at all.

Also, the agency that I work through for the bank, when they sent me
directions to their office, gave distances ONLY in metres. No yards
mentioned at all."

I don't think we should conclude from this that he was implying rural Wales is backward, pagan etc, merely that they haven't adopted metric at a personal level in the way he was seeing it in London. His does say he was basing it on what Steve had been saying and the assumption he was talking about Wales.

Also for the record, Steve doesn't actually live in Wales although he is from there and still has close ties (as we all know he's learning Welsh). David obviously didn't know that although I'm not sure how he knew about the Welsh connection.

From my perspective in the circles I move in (Central England) I don't, to be honest, see an overwhelmingly metric society, much as I'd like to. At the same time if others do experience a greater prevalence I am prepared to believe them unless I happen to know they are unreliable, but I don't assume that at the outset.

Having said that I believe Britain is slowly adopting metric and people are amenable to the argument that we should really progress it more and that the present state of things is unsatisfactory. I base this on what I have been hearing in the media recently when the topic has come up.

Although you show fairness in your post it would have been nice if you had copy and pasted my response to David. The reason for the importance of this is that I live 20 miles from London and work in and around London and thus although not in any way a "Londoner" I can claim to know a bit of how that smelly city "speaks".

I currently have two good friends (couples) that live in london - one in Olympia (near Earls Court) and one near Battersey. One couple is in their 20's the other in their 30's. No way would they talk about "going 200 metres down the road" or claiming something was "30 metres" tall or anything like that.

Ironically - both couples are getting fed-up with London life and are looking to move to the West. Ironically one couple is looking to move to Wales.

No doubt to practice ritual sacrifices whilst the locals say "rod", "perch" and "fathom" in Welsh / am cymraig

<<<No way would they talk about "going 200 metres down the road" or claiming something was "30 metres" tall or anything like that.>>>

Why on earth not? Maybe still not as common as yards and feet, but this is completely normal everyday speak where I come from (about 40 miles away from where you are)

Given that you have made it clear you were referring to your experience of the London area I think we should also take a look at what you said in response to David who talked about his metric experiences there:
-------------------------------------------------------
"> Is this for real?
>
> Most people of all ages refer to distances in miles or yards.
>
> eg, "you want to go to the Red Lion pub? It's just 200 yds on the left"
>
> I'd agree that yards and metres are both synonymous in short
> distances, but to imagine that most people say "The pub you want is
> just 200 metres on the left" is pure fantasy.
>
> I'm not saying that no-one says 'metres' but to claim that most people
> do? Sorry - not in the UK that I know.
>
> TV, newspapers and road signs use yards - so its quite rare to hear
> metres being used - its seldom "advertised" so to speak.
>
> Kilometres are never used.
>
> 'metres' are forced by the state to be used in carpet stores though
> (although yards can be used supplementary for the populous to use).
>
> Feet and inches are all over the place.
>
> "Youth" radio "Radio one" yesterday covered the shark attack on some
> British bloke in South Africa(?) and the show quoted it as a 13 foot
> long shark.
> They also recently described how much water should be consumed in
> pints during a workout.
> There are many many examples of imperial being used all around the
> place in the UK.
> I'm sorry - but you'd have to go looking for metric - although you can
> see petrol being sold in litres, car engine sizes quoted in litre or
> cc ('cc' for the official stuff), litres of drink in bottles etc.
>
> Please don't advertise that the UK is really really metric - from a
> pro-metric US person's perspective it's misleadingly encouraging - for
> a pro-imperial or pro-choice person it just looks silly.
----------------------------------------------------------

What are we to conclude from this? Was David telling lies and trying to mislead the Americans? If David is guilty of that then so are you.

For example this statement:
"Kilometres are never used." isn't true. I've heard it used on TV and radio and I know for a fact that fitness instructors use it.

"(about 40 miles away from where you are)"

Yoiks! Where's the camera! I'm in weybridge for the moment!

"What are we to conclude from this? Was David telling lies and trying to mislead the Americans? If David is guilty of that then so are you."

Not at all - although I mentioned "fantasy" I don't think he was deliberately creating falsehoods. My point is that telling americans that the UK is really really metric will only build up expectations for those who have never been here but then visit here.

""Kilometres are never used." isn't true. I've heard it used on TV and radio and I know for a fact that fitness instructors use it."

Ok Ok - I was using probability. Its the same way as saying that rabbies has never happens in the UK.
That's not a very gracious example but if you don't understand what I mean then I can explain further (think of how many times the word 'mile' is said, heard, written or read on one day in London compared to km - what would the ratio be?).

There is an odd phenomena in the UK
When I first met my other half she thought the UK was metric and that imperial was only in America. Its only when I pointed out that when you conciously make an effort to hear what's said do you pick up reality.
So when she said the word "yards" in quick conversation I said "stop" and mentioned that she used imperial (yards). "No I didn't!" she exclaimed.
I'm not sure why - but we tend to let 'miles', 'yards', 'feet' etc go straight over our heads in common conversation without even knowing that we just heard or said it.
I've played the trick on others who, when asked, think we use metric.
Be aware - this trick will ONLY ever work on someone who has less than an ounce of interest in the subject!!!

I once asked the other half how tall a fruit machine was in a pub (I said before hand that she had to answer straight away without thinking). She quickly said 1 and a half metres.
The fruitmanchine was a little under 6 foot tall - "go figure".

BTW - she was a life guard at a swimming pool (incase there's question over her knowledge of metric!)

BTW - "to be fair" I was talking about my last post there:

-Stephen, we move in different circles. You are in rural Wales,
-I frequent the City of London. From your observations it would
-appear that where you live people are still way behind London.
-You cannot really state that something I said is pure fantasy,
-I am specifically and honestly stating that people in London
-DO refer to distances in metres and not in yards. I am not
-saying that everyone does, just that lately I have ONLY heard
-metres used and not yards at all.

I come from Wales, I live in the South East of England, 20 miles from London (North West of).
Even pro-metric folk that I talk to on another discussion forum admit that although 'metres' do get used they don't get used nearly as much as yards. I work in and around London - I rarely see or hear 'metres' - usually 'yards'
This is from work colleagues, TV, Radio, Newspapers, Friends and Family.
I can't remember of hand, but were you the poster who mentioned about 500ml "pints" ?



-Also, the agency that I work through for the bank, when they -
-sent me directions to their office, gave distances ONLY in
-metres. No yards mentioned at all.

Some places use yards some metres. None use km. I'm not sure why since most talk in terms of yards.

In this age of internet anyone here can simply "listen in" on local and national British radio stations to hear how people 'really' speak. Choose a "talky" station like BBC radio london or a "youth" station like BBC Radio 1 or capital fm.
I suggest people do that since I can not fabricate radio station websites - which I feel I'm being charged with.

BTW - the last point I make is quite pertinent.

By simply listening to the words used by normal folk phoning in to radio stations I am risking being very very wrong with my observations.


[Adopts a very relaxed pose]

I think people tend to talk imperial more than they use it in practice. If you rely on casual conversation as a guide to whether people are metric or imperial you can gain a misleading impression.

As an example. I was at a meeting with a building contractor once where we were discussing the siting of Network Access Points for wireless computer networking. He was pondering over a specification of one such device that quoted the range in feet. He laughed at this saying how silly it was (it was an American product) so I converted it for him.

Anyway we were pouring over a scale drawing working out distances in metres. Then after the meeting we stepped outside so I could show him round the actual site. Guess what, he starting talking in feet!

STEVEH, you got to get yourself down to TESCO. It's so imperial. They got a peck and a bushel of Stodge-in-a-Bucket for only 4/6d. AND, if you buy a whole hogshead, they got a farthing off this weekend! It's true, the Baroness told me on her way back to Tel Aviv to finish off the new mansion she's got under construction there. She said to tell you thanks for your shares ( I think that's what she was doing or maybe just laughing til her face dropped off).

Of course.... I should remind all that the Baroness' new mansion is built 100 % metric. That is it follows the 100 mm module without any variation. We are using 400 mm spacing for the inner walls and 600 mm outer wall. All of our bricks and masonary are standard metric sizes. All the new furniture will be purchase from IKEA, which as we all know is international and 100 % metric too.


If it is going to be built correctly and stand for an eternity then it absolutely must be done metric. No other way will it last.

<<<I think people tend to talk imperial more than they use it in practice. If you rely on casual conversation as a guide to whether people are metric or imperial you can gain a misleading impression.>>>

Very true. I think no-one would dispute that (in the UK) people use imperial more than metric in casual conversation - but hand them a tape measure and ask them to actually measure something. I think most people will automatically use metric without even thinking.

"""Very true. I think no-one would dispute that (in the UK) people use imperial more than metric in casual conversation - but hand them a tape measure and ask them to actually measure something. I think most people will automatically use metric without even thinking."""



What good would it do to measure something in imperial if you can't buy anything in imperial? If you are trying to determine the area of a room to buy carpet, for example, what good is it to measure in feet, if carpet is sold in square metres?

...the ramblings of a fool who's never been to a carpet store in the UK.

=============


Stan:

"He laughed at this saying how silly it was (it was an American product) so I converted it for him."

Let me get this right - A fellow UK compatriot of yours saw "feet" as a measuring unit and then 'laughed'? Then used them himself later?

Who picked up on the scent that "Hogs Head" is a certain female poster from quite a while ago?
Anyone?

Andy: "but hand them a tape measure and ask them to actually measure something. I think most people will automatically use metric without even thinking."

I think that's based upon your bias.
I'd say the reverse was true UNLESS a product is spec'd in mm.

Let me get this right - A fellow UK compatriot of yours saw "feet" as a measuring unit and then 'laughed'? Then used them himself later?
---------------------------------------------------

Thats exactly the kind of situation I have come across. Saying "something is a few feet wide" is very different to actually measuring something in feet. When recently we had to measure various things in our offices a fair few people were involved in taking measurements. No-one specified whether to use metric or imperial. But all automatically used metric, bar one american lady who gave a measurement in inches, which caused general looks of surprise, and our office manager (in her fifties) said something along the lines of "we don't use inches here any more"

I must admit I did think to myself at that point, I wish SteveH could have been here!



I think that's based upon your bias.
I'd say the reverse was true UNLESS a product is spec'd in mm.
----------------------------------------------------------

I try not to be biased (although we all are I suppose!)

From my experiences I would estimate that if you handed a bunch of random people tape measures and asked them to measure the length of a wall, probably 80-90% would use metres.

<<<Thats exactly the kind of situation I have come across. Saying "something is a few feet wide" is very different to actually measuring something in feet. When recently we had to measure various things in our offices a fair few people were involved in taking measurements. No-one specified whether to use metric or imperial. But all automatically used metric, bar one american lady who gave a measurement in inches, which caused general looks of surprise, and our office manager (in her fifties) said something along the lines of "we don't use inches here any more" >>>

Yes, you've told us (ie this board) about that story before.
I don't have a recent example myself, although I note that people will say "about 4 inches", or "about two feet tall" etc.
Also I bet that if you gave a standard ruler to someone they'd pick out inches if it were to measure something less than or equal to a foot long.
Or they'd say "do you want that in inches or cm"
or even "do you want that in inches, cm or mm".
I doubt anyone would use decimetres.

<<I must admit I did think to myself at that point, I wish SteveH could have been here!>>>

Ooh, now that *IS* scary!



<<I try not to be biased (although we all are I suppose!)>>

I agree, all of us here will have some natural bias. It wasn't aimed at you in particular.

<<From my experiences I would estimate that if you handed a bunch of random people tape measures and asked them to measure the length of a wall, probably 80-90% would use metres.>>

1) I doubt that, but...
2) Deny them that measuring tape and I'd wager they'd use feet (not yards). Or they'd pace the room and divide by 3.

Here's an experiment - ask a random person (or people) in your office how long their living room is.
Be prepared for a shock!

To avoid embarrassment hide the intent of the question behind something like discussing buying a new house but wanting a big living room! ;-)