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Lafayette class frigates

May 26 2004 at 12:55 AM
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Pax Extreme  (Login pax_europa)

This class has been accused of being no more than glorified patrol vessel, but which weapons do they have and what can be done to make them better?

Present:
8 cell Crotale SAM
8 Exocet SSM (MM40 block 2 - block 3 after 2006)
1 100 mm DP
2 20 mm

Future?

It can carry helicopters up to 10t, so NH90 NFH is a possibility for ASW

There is a space for VLS just in front of the bridge. Some sources claim that it would fit 16 Aster 15. Could more be squeezed in?

Would it be possible to fit a towed sonar system or a hull sonar system?


 
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Eryx
(Login Eric_De_La_Legion)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 1:02 AM 

"There is a space for VLS just in front of the bridge. Some sources claim that it would fit 16 Aster 15. Could more be squeezed in?"

There is nothing about Aster 15 for Lafayette in the Law of programation. But some people said that the free platform will be filled by cheaper VL Mica naval at a later stage.

http://www.mbda.net/emican.html

"Would it be possible to fit a towed sonar system or a hull sonar system?"

That's not impossible other countries Lafayette has sonar but this is because there navy is pretty limited so they want a multirole Lafayette. In France the Lafayette has a different mission, usually for stealthy drop of commando units on enemy shore and also for hit and run strike on enemies surface combat vessels. Basically fighting submarine isn't what the Lafayette is designed for. 8 ASW FREMM and the 6 baracuda will assume that mission. THe lafayette is to have independent operation and is designed to take a lot of damage without losing functionality. The system is all redundant and it is calculated it will the destruction of 3 blocks to sink the Lafayette. Basically I will think the Lafayette can take 1 antiship missiles without problem although one torpedo will sink the lafayette. It's build like a computer with many blocks and parts but with redundancy of the system. The last Lafayette took only 6 months to build pretty amasing.









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Pax Extreme
(Login pax_europa)

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 1:23 AM 

Where are the 20mm guns? I can't see them on any of the pictures.

 
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(Login Eric_De_La_Legion)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 1:34 AM 


Well I've been looking for the 20mm F2, can't see it at all. You'll notice a rectangular door in the middle of the ship where the commando team get out, I'll think it will be a logical area to place a 20MM gun and that's will explain why I can't see the 20mm gun on all the pictures.





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The dual nature of Robespierre:Tyrant and liberator




Brennus, the man who sacked rome



 
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Anonymous
(Login Brokenhalo67)

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 1:50 AM 

I can't find any reason to explain that rather large raised open area in front of the bridge and behind the 100mm. other than that they originally planed the Lafayette class of FFG's to atleast have provisions for placing a Vertical Launch System within the future(or if consideration asked for it)..........


Other than that is seems a waste of space and it seems obvious to me(no?) that it was decked out in that way for a VLS......


Maybe they have never had official requirements for it, but that doesn't mean that they concluded and passed away from it at least obtaining that capability within the future.......it looks like a 16cell Sylver vls with Aster-15 could be fitted in with the proper re-fits and time......(if need be)

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Eryx
(Login Eric_De_La_Legion)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 2:23 AM 

"

I can't find any reason to explain that rather large raised open area in front of the bridge and behind the 100mm. other than that they originally planed the Lafayette class of FFG's to atleast have provisions for placing a Vertical Launch System within the future(or if consideration asked for it)..........


Other than that is seems a waste of space and it seems obvious to me(no?) that it was decked out in that way for a VLS......"

You are right that platform is already wired to adapt VLS , but I think they will fire Mica naval rather than aster 15 on french lafayette. I'm not sure on this just rumours. There is nothing on it released. It's a low priority project at the moment, but many export version has sylver launchers.



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The dual nature of Robespierre:Tyrant and liberator




Brennus, the man who sacked rome



 
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Pax Extreme
(Login pax_europa)

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 2:34 AM 

>> ...and it seems obvious to me(no?) that it was decked out in that way for a VLS. <<

Yes, I agree.

 
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Anonymous
(Login Joey_Tankblaster)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 8:54 AM 

They should remove the crotal on the helicopter hangar and install SeaRam CIWS or similar, add VLS with Aster-15 or ESSM - would give the ship a pretty improvement in anti-air

 
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Anonymous
(Login ren2704)
La Grande Armee (France)

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 9:07 AM 

As far as I know the 20mm guns are supposed to be placed in the passage right under the Syracuse mast. They are fitted only when required (that's why on netmarine they use the term "affut"). thus, one of the gun isn't placed inside the room that is protectec by the large door, but just above it. In this room, you get as well the rescue boats as well btw.

 
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Eryx
(Login Eric_De_La_Legion)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 10:04 AM 

"They should remove the crotal on the helicopter hangar and install SeaRam CIWS or similar, add VLS with Aster-15 or ESSM - would give the ship a pretty improvement in anti-air "

I wouldn't trust a CIWS system over a high accuracy crotale SAM. All we need is to add the aster 15.

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The dual nature of Robespierre:Tyrant and liberator




Brennus, the man who sacked rome



 
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(Login Joey_Tankblaster)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 10:39 AM 

might be that crotale is accurate but with 8 shots it is little bit underarmed for close in. A Double Ram Launcher with 42 shots like the F123 brandenburgs or sachsen class frigates features would be better and less expensive.

 
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(Login Falconone)
The Singa-Lauts (Singapore)

How can u say that it is not glorified?

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May 26 2004, 11:10 AM 

www.strategypage.com - Jan 19, 2004

SURFACE WARSHIPS: Formidable Formidable Stealth Frigate.

January 16, 2004: The January 7th launch of the Republic of Singapore Navy's (RSN) first 3,200 ton Project Delta class stealth frigate has revealed some of the advanced capabilities incorporated into these ships. It was confirmed that, when fully operational, the project Delta frigates will be amongst the most powerful air warfare ships in the Asia Pacific region, and comparable to the South Korean KDX II class, the Japanese Kongo class, and the Chinese Type 052c class.

The RSS Formidable was launched at Lorient, France and will undergo outfitting and sea trials in France before traveling to Singapore in early 2005, where she will join her five locally built sisters. Once all the ships of this class are in service by 2009, Singapore will retire its six 1970's vintage Sea Wolf class missile gun boats.

The project Delta class are based on modified French La Fayette multipurpose frigates, which are currently in service with France, Taiwan and Saudi Arabia. Until the launch of the Formidable, the most potent ships derived from this class were the 4,700 ton Saudi Al Riyadh (F3000S Sawari II) Class Multipurpose AAW Frigate. From the specifications recently released by the RSN, the Delta class will be more formidable.

Fully operational, the RSS Formidable will be capable of carrying up to 32 Aster active homing SAMs in Slyver VLS (vertical launchers just below the deck) launchers. The exact Aster variant has not been made public, but most likely will be the 30 kilometer range Aster 15, not the 110 kilometer range Aster 30. Aster incorporates an active radar seeker and reaction thrusters for high maneuverability, and will give these ships a highly potent area air defense capability, with the ability to intercept anti-ship missiles at long ranges. This will enable the RSN Formidable and her sisters to perform anti-air escort duties similar to the US Aegis warships.

Other weapon systems include up to eight Harpoon anti-ship missiles, six Whitehead lightweight anti-submarine torpedoes and an Oto Melera 76mm Super Rapid dual purpose gun. Secondary gun systems are not mentioned, but RSN ships have recently been fitted with locally developed modular 25mm remote weapons systems. These systems have their own optical and thermal targeting systems and fire control, and can be fitted with various IR SAMS, like the Mistral, to operate as gun/missile combination Close-in Weapons systems. These ships will also operate a medium naval helicopter.

The base-line La Fayette class have stealth features, that make their radar cross section equivalent to a 500 ton fishing boat, and the Delta ships will be even stealthier. Compared to her La Fayette cousins, the RSS Formidable and her sisters have a significantly reduced profile as a result of it's smaller superstructure and the use of enclosed sensor mast technology. The reduced radar signature makes it more difficult for radar to detect and track the ship. It also becomes more difficult for anti-ship missiles to home in on the ship, or see past counter-measures.

All her radar warfare requirements are met by a single Thales Herakles phased array multi-function radar system, which provides 2D surface and 3D air search and fire control functions, including multiple tracking, target designation and command uplink for the Aster missiles. Very little information is publicly known about the Herakles system, and the Delta class may be the first ships to carry it. A variable depth active low frequency towed sonar by EDO provides these ships with good underwater detection in coastal waters.

Combat management, bridge management and ship's systems were all developed jointly by Singapore's Defence Science & Technology Agency and Defence Science Organization, and contain innovative automation features that have reduced crew requirements. For example, all combat systems can be accessed from Standard Operating Common Consoles, which have weapons control functions and a 20 inch color LCD display.

This enables the RSS Formidable to function at full combat efficiency with a ships complement is 70, plus an additional 15 for helicopter support. In comparison, the La Fayette class has a crew of 164.

The RSS Formidable's propulsion is via four MTU diesels in Combined Diesel on Diesel (CODAD) configuration, which give her a top speed of about 50 kilometers an hour, and a cruising range of approximately 7,200 kilometers. This will enable the Formidable and her sisters to operate as true Blue Water units. Currently, the only RSN ships that can operate in Blue Water Conditions are its 8,500 ton Endurance Class LSTs.



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''The SAF is an armed force , not a civilian corporation. Its mission is to defeat its enemies, ruthlessly and completely. Its an instrument of controlled fury, designed to visit death and destruction of its foes...soldiers must have steel in their souls .....must learn in war to kill and not to flinch, to destroy and not to feel pity, to be a flaming sword in the righteous cause of national survival.''

> BG Lee , 1984.

 
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Pax Extreme
(Login pax_europa)

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 3:46 PM 

I agree with Joey_Tankblaster, if you add Aster 15 then it would make sense to replace the Crotale with some sort of CIWS system.

>> Fully operational, the RSS Formidable will be capable of carrying up to 32 Aster active homing SAMs in Slyver VLS (vertical launchers just below the deck) launchers. The exact Aster variant has not been made public, but most likely will be the 30 kilometer range Aster 15, not the 110 kilometer range Aster 30. <<

Perhaps the Lafayette class could carry as many as 32 too?

 
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(Login notanonymous)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: Lafayette class frigates

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May 26 2004, 9:33 PM 

It would make sense to outfit the 6 Lafayettes with Aster 15s to strengthen the air defense capability provided to the CdeG and PA2 by the Horizons.

 
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