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lol it must be a funny catoon though, cannot switch on speaker now, sleeping
Yes, clearly the Official Intro states J-10 is far superior than Su-27.
Normally Chinese Officials keep low profile, but this is obviously the facts now.
You gotta to face it soon, Russian military industry NO match more against Chinese in few years lol
Like we beat you in Olympics last year, you are Losing in ALL fronts now lol
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It also mentioned in close combat those F-15, F-16, EF2000 are completely (note: completely) NO match against J-10.
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The only thing in the chinese text which pertains to the claim translates losely to "the J-10's airframe performance exceeds the Sukhoi-27". It doesn't back it up.
How is it superior? Superior in range? no. Is it a faster aircraft? No. Is it a more manueverable aircraft? Maybe, but nothing concrete on that. Does it carry as big a radar? No. Does it feature a rear looking radar like the Su-27/30/33/35/37? No. Overall, is it a better energy fighter? Judging from the thrust to weight ratio, no.
Another thing... if the intention is to arm it with the indegenious chinese AAMs, these in no way compare favorably to the Russian R-73/R-77 combo, the American AIM-120C/AIM-9X combo or the various european setups in service.
Der Wille zur Macht!
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Holly shiit, the Test Flight Success was in 1996, but until NOW they expose its existence, good way of keeping things secret.
Now I am sure Chinese F-22 has been under way for long time, it is a Chinese military tradition: only expose when it enters service while the R/D is already underway for long time.
Next focus: J-13
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It also mentioned in close combat those F-15, F-16, EF2000 are completely (note: completely) NO match against J-10.
ROFLMAO!!!!
lol
Mate, you cannot make me annoyed anymore, we are now SO confident about Chinese military stuff
Btw, it also mentioned Mig-29 NO match in air-combat lol
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lol it uses a Russian engine so as I see it the thing is a single engine Su-27 it cant be superior to a two engine beast that carrys a larger more powerful radar. The J-10 will be limited in performance just because it cant carry a BARS size radar.
the pak/fa is two years aways, a static model MIGHT be displayed at MAKS-2005. I really dont think China should talk about 5th gens at least Russia has had two publicly displayed 5th gen demonstrators and has published a time table for its 5th gen. We dont even know for sure if the Chinese are calling theirs the J-12 or the J-13 or if there will be 2 planes.
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Maybe you can translate the textboard: but well word by word lol
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""lol it uses a Russian engine so as I see it the thing is a single engine Su-27 it cant be superior to a two engine beast that carrys a larger more powerful radar. The J-10 will be limited in performance just because it cant carry a BARS size radar.""
Soyuz you no that but not them they believe in there Government ran media, they always tell the truth.....
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greeky gay, when mass production J-10, Chinese engines will replace the Russian ones.
See we are catching up FAST in ALL fronts
Just a few more years, everything under control lol
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So it is superior because some plaque in a Chinese museum says so without backing it up?
-------------------- 27th Fighter Squadron "Fightin' Eagles" of 1st combat wing.
Will recieve FA-22 this year and be ready
for battle the following year...
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lol RP you start to sound ridiculous, that's not funny more.
I said:
China already beat you in Olympics which you have NEVER thought possible in USSR huh?
BUT reality is: you were beaten by CHINESE.
And we are going to beat you in ALL fronts lol
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As long as WE CHINESE are doing WELL in all fronts now, that counts
greeky, go on licking American arse, must taste good for ya lol
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This message has been edited by HBN2025 on Feb 20, 2005 2:35 AM
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Hmm the only one licking ass is China for all western tech she begs for......
Lets see you can't make your own plane knock-offs, Cars & military stuff knock-offs tell me what have you've done man beside being a thief which were I'm from is a bad stigma but I'm not sure about how your culture deals with thieves......I guess you glorify them....
US Army 122nd 1943
This message has been edited by Llakos on Feb 20, 2005 2:36 AM
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Better NEVER believe so that keeps you feeling well
Same like by Olympics, before the Game started, ur delegation was still talking about beating Americans and to be NUMBER 1 lol
Upon a day, when they waked up, Games ended, you are beaten by Chinese lol
Keep on good feeling, I never bother with that lol
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This message has been edited by HBN2025 on Feb 20, 2005 2:38 AM
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Naive to read too much into government and company promo. J-10 is regular delta-canard mix fighter with unknown specific data. Since the Chinese had no F-16s or F-15s to play around with, the claim to be superior to anything is crap. Su-27 they can maybe claim something as they possess a number in the PLAAF, but the rest are groundless.
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When you lose, then you CHOOSE to find ANOTHER way to feel better lol
Typical loser's attitude huh? lol
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And welcome to Beijing 2008, that time you will lose much more lol
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Got Rice? loose? Lets count all the soviet country put together and see who won. After the collapse of the USSR Athletes went back to their home countries. Soviet states in the 2004 Olympics put together are #1. in medal count and gold medals.
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In an airforce combat exercise end last year, J-10 scored 5:0 against Su-27SK.
While commonly Su-27's are considered better performance than F-16's.
Btw PLAAF did get F-16 from Pakistan.
Well, I am here not to argue who is better or worse.
I just BRING the MESSAGE to here, that's it.
Believe or Not Believe, it's YOUR problem, not my bussiness lol
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"And welcome to Beijing 2008, that time you will lose much more lol"
I will step up my training and make sure I make it to 2008 china. If I don’t make USA boxing team ill tryout for Russian boxing team if I don’t make it there I will tryout in Armenian boxing team. But ill make sure I will knockout as many Chinese as I can!
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""Lets count all the soviet country put together and see who won. ""
lol
Another way try to feel better.
Btw those ex-soviet republics all say fcuk you they don't want nothing to do with you.
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""I will step up my training and make sure I make it to 2008 china. If I don’t make USA boxing team ill tryout for Russian boxing team if I don’t make it there I will tryout in Armenian boxing team. But ill make sure I will knockout as many Chinese as I can!
""
First good luck though, you gotta train alot to first be selected.
Then, never underestimate your opponents, there are plenty good boxers in the world, they ALL go Olmpics.
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I would know this. A friend of mine Vanes Martirosyan, I used to spare with him, made it to the Olympics. lost in the second round. The guy who beet him won the gold medal. So I will try my best to make it there.
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F-16 and Su-27 fight differently. MiG-29 is commonly believed to be a better knife-fighter than Su-27 series with better turning ratio at higher speeds. Pakistan's F-16s are of lower tier of F-16s currently deployed. The FCS improvement, the higher thrust and possibility of AIM-9X integration on many should not be underestimated. In fact, both the Hellenic Air Force and the Turkish Air Force plans to, or already has, deployed AIM-9X with JHMCS integration. South Korean F-16s are also coming to an age where a serious upgrade in capability are being considered. JDAM and AIM-9X integration are most prominent weapon upgrades being considered.
BVR is a different story altogether, but personally I would not bet against F-16s and F-15s in BVR even in these days.
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Looks like Russia blew your doors off in total medals also they weren't far off in gold.. Also you have 1.3 billion, huge pool of people, you better get some medals...
"In an airforce combat exercise end last year, J-10 scored 5:0 against Su-27SK.
"
I don’t know why but I have a feeling those exercises were rigged. I know, sounds ridicules, why would a country rig an exercise to show its domestic fighter is better than the one they import? lol
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first off China has 1.3 BILLION people by all measures the fact that China isnt number one in something is SAD since the Chinese make up the single largest plurality of humanity. By all measures China should have 12x more medals than Russia, that it doesnt is a testament to something the Chinese would never admit....
Back to business. The Su-27SK is an obsolete varient. The Su-27S's that make up the core of the Russian flanker fleet are superior and the SK is by any meausure 15 yo technology, neither Russia no China are procurring any of this varient. Its a downgraded export model of the baseline S. If the J-10 is anything approaching modern it will woop the SK, but it would get slaughtered by the 30MK, 27SM, 30MKI, 30MKK, 30M2, 30M3, 30K, 30KN, should I keep going? There are a dozen other more modern varients.
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SK cant carry the R-77 hence all the J-10 would need is to carry the R-77 to win. A simple computer upgrade would bring the SK back to modern levels, such an upgrade was just offered to and accepted by China.
The SM upgrade Russia is getting is a bit more complete and involves a new FBW system and HOTAS.
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"first off China has 1.3 BILLION people by all measures the fact that China isnt number one in something is SAD since the Chinese make up the single largest plurality of humanity. By all measures China should have 12x more medals than Russia, that it doesnt is a testament to something the Chinese would never admit...."
That's an extremely funny statement... So russia has about 100 million people, yet the japanese also have 100 million people, but their economy is at least 8 times bigger than russia... Korea has a much smaller population than Russia yet its economy is bigger than that of Russia... How do you explain that???????
Just because you have a large population doesn't mean you will be no. 1 in everything... If you don't get that, you are dumber than I thought....l1o1l1o1l1o1l
MAY GOD BLESS CHINA!
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You may have 10 times more ppl, but you can ONLY send X number same as your country. Damm, so simple, why argue?
32 Golds beats 27 Golds, too simple to count.
And that Llakos, you dammmmmmm idiot, I can post another rank table with Golds counted first, and it has ALWAYS been THE way to count GOLDS FIRST!!!! Dammmmmmmmmmmmm lol
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the japanese and koreans were American protectorates during the cold war and while they are economically strong the Russian army could still pulverize them both.
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I always thought Soyuz is the smartest Russian, but this time you start to argue that we should be able to win 12x more medals, that cracks me up!!
I am VERY disappointed ..
Wasted some time of HBN, well, I have NOthing better to do anyway lol
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As stated in the billboard:
In general terms, J-10A is superior to Su-27SK.
But note: it stated "in general terms", which means: if all factors counted, J-10 is better than Su-27.
But it never stated that J-10 is in all aspects better than Su-27.
Some better, some worse. OK?
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Ok, which aspects are better? avionics? Speed? maneuverability? range? Ceiling? Stealth? you have to share this information if you want people to believe j-10 is superior to the su-27.
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i didnt literally mean 12x its an example of the sort of logic the Chinese use. The J-10 is a small single engine fighter with the same engine you find on the Su-27, its airframe just because of its size cant be superior. It doesnt have the power, the room for the radar, or the potential payload of the flanker.
Maybe because of newer electronics its better than old flanker varients but put it agains the MK instead of the SK an you will have a very different result.
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"""first off China has 1.3 BILLION people by all measures the fact that China isnt number one in something is SAD since the Chinese make up the single largest plurality of humanity. By all measures China should have 12x more medals than Russia, that it doesnt is a testament to something the Chinese would never admit...."""
if population means everything, china would be the ONLY superpower in the next 1000 years. and dont forgot in 1940s when american exploded their first nuke, chinese could not even make our own cars.
"""Back to business. The Su-27SK is an obsolete varient. The Su-27S's that make up the core of the Russian flanker fleet are superior and the SK is by any meausure 15 yo technology, neither Russia no China are procurring any of this varient. Its a downgraded export model of the baseline S. If the J-10 is anything approaching modern it will woop the SK, but it would get slaughtered by the 30MK, 27SM, 30MKI, 30MKK, 30M2, 30M3, 30K, 30KN, should I keep going? There are a dozen other more modern varients. """
J-10 also got upgraded varients: J-10A/J-10B
btw i dont understand u words:---r u saying that the SU27 that russian operate r superior to chinese ones?
the J-11 had been upgraded with chinese avionics, they r not just basic SU27sk.
as far as i know, russian airforce does not operate any su30 series fighter, they can only afford to upgrade some of their su27 to smk standard. and we dont know if smk model is as good as they claimed yet.
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""Ok, which aspects are better? avionics? Speed? maneuverability? range? Ceiling? Stealth? you have to share this information if you want people to believe j-10 is superior to the su-27.""
OK, I translate a bit of the billboard then:
Aspects of J-10 better than Su-27:
1. Total Performance better than Su-27
2. Air Combat: not specifically mentioned Su-27, but metioned F-15, F-16, EF2000, Mig29, all not match against J-10.
3. Supersonic crusing
4. Partially stealth.
5. Electronics (indigenous)
6. Airframe manufacturing technology
Some other stuff I dunno Su-27 specs so can't say.
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I can not tell why PLAAF rates J-10 in general performance superior to Su-27, they must have their way of calculating. And J-10 specs are NOT officially exposed, so can't really talk about the details.
BUT: bottom line:
I brought the MESSAGE here: J-10 in general performance superior to Su-27, and J-10 beat Su-27 5:0 in exercise last year.
Futher, I am not PLAAF pilot. That's it.
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Then what's the main multi-role fighter in Russian Airforce? Still Su-27 and Mig-29? Note Su-30's are for a different role.
J-10 will be the main multi-role fighter in PLAAF.
Let's compare the equivalent jets in the 2 airforces.
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And Irealis do know anything about the current J-10, it is already totally a different story here.
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---------The introduction, in the mid-1970s, of the USAF F-15 Eagle and F-16 Fighting Falcon put the then Eastern bloc fighter pilots at a distinct disadvantage. The deployment of the Su-27 Flanker and MiG-29 Fulcrum in the mid-1980s leveled the playing field. Designed as a high performance fighter with a fly-by-wire control system, and the ability to carry up to 10 AAMs, the highly maneuverable Su-27 is one of the most imposing fighters ever built. The first 'Flanker-A' prototypes flew on May 20, 1977 and entered service as the 'Flanker-B' in 1984. The development of the Su-27 fighter plane was completed in the early 1980s, and the plane subsequently set more than 40 world records of altitude and take-off-speed. It was the forerunner of an entire family of planes, including the Su-27UB training plane, the Su-33 ship-based fighter, the Su-37 multi-mission plane and the Su-32FN two-seat specialised plane. The Su-27UB is a two seat training version of Su-27, which first flew in March 1985.--------
read that? the first protype of su27 flow in 1977, and u tell me u started the work in late 1970s?
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Su-27 is 30 years old, still the main force in Russian airforce.
And you don't have better ones to replace it.
That's it.
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"Su-27 is 30 years old, still the main force in Russian airforce.
And you don't have better ones to replace it.
That's it."
The original su-27, latest version of the su-27 is the su-37, lets compare china’s best with Russia best. PAK-FA is 2 years away. Chinese main fighter is the mig-21 lol.
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yes 4 wheels. Maybe the second pic the car has more horse power, better miles per gallon, better engine, so lets see what differences the lavi has with the j-10, ya I remember j-10 has a Russian engine.
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OK, let's compare that Su-37 in 10 years time, no need to pull out all you goodies now, and we are patient to wait another 10 years though.
Mmmm, good, the Thread goes quite popular.
Thanks all, time to bed.
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I never said there is anything wrong with basing the j-10 with the lavi. HBN said it was a hole different plane.
Quote from HBN.
"But it has since then nothing to do with Lavi"
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"""The original su-27, latest version of the su-27 is the su-37, lets compare china’s best with Russia best. PAK-FA is 2 years away. Chinese main fighter is the mig-21 lol."""
---russia only got one su37 protype, and i doubt there will be another one.
---pak-fa is 2 years away? i will believe that when it acutally fly.
---china currently operating:
24 J-10
76 SU27sk/ubk
95 J-11 (chinese upgraded su27)
114 SU30MKK/MK2
100 J-8IID
150 J-8II
200 J-8
300 J-7E(plz dont even compare it with u mig21)
700 J-7I/II/III( chinese mig-21bn/bis copy)
50 JH-7
500 Q-5
120 H-6 (chinese TU-16 copy)
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HBN! really dont let patriotism blind you man.!
SinoDefence claims the J-10 radar can track to 100-120 km and engage and 90 km. Compare that to a ****in Flanker that can do a Cobra maneuver fully loaded!
"Why do women have tits?....So you got some thing to stare at while your talking to'em!"
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"""HBN! really dont let patriotism blind you man.!
SinoDefence claims the J-10 radar can track to 100-120 km and engage and 90 km. Compare that to a ****in Flanker that can do a Cobra maneuver fully loaded"""
---engage at 90km will be more than enough since our best AAM has 75km range
---for cobra maneuver, how offen do u think we will get invloved in a WVR cambat in these days? expecially when both russia and china have AWAC.
This message has been edited by nbwz on Feb 20, 2005 4:51 AM
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Complete BS. I doubt that the J-10 has a rearward facing radar!
And also take into account the number of AAMs the Flanker can carry compared to the J-10. Also if the J-10 is really THAT FANTASTIC! why order and make 300~ flankers?
"Why do women have tits?....So you got some thing to stare at while your talking to'em!"
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(1) The J-10 yells Lavi. But, it is apparently a larger plane. Perhaps its to accommodate the larger Russian sourced engine. The Lavi was to have used a Pratt & Whitney PW1120 engine developed specially for it. It is basically a down sized F100-PW-100 that is is about 75% the size and weight but which deliver the same amount of thrust. The AL-31FN is a much larger, heavier engine and has a lower power density, hence necessitating the J-10's larger airframe.
(2) You can believe what you want, but I find the claims to be very doubtful to say the least. To start with, armed with the the PL-8 and the PL-11 missiles -- as shown in the photos -- its AA capability is marginal at best. Moving to the R-73 and R-77 makes it competitive. In addition, I have seen the KLJ-3 radar exposed on a Y-7 testbest aircraft . Its a mechanically scanned plannar array that is nowhere near the size of the N011.
(3) I believe that the claims are true to a certain extent. The aircraft I am sure is superior to an F-16A or a F-15A with an overworked pilot armed like it was in 1972 with the AIM-7E "analog" sparrow. A modern day F-16 with the APG-68(v)9 radar or the very powerful, very high resolution APG-80 AESA radar is a completely different animal. The AIM-120 is also a completely different class of weapon compared to the AIM-7. According to early reports, an APG-80 equipped F-16 actually outranges the Su-30 with the BARS radar despite the BARS being 2.5 times larger and about 4 times heavier. The AIM-120C it may not fly as far as the R-77 (the 120C7 actually would, but lets stick to the common C5 version for now), but the effective envelope may be as good or better. Hey, the AIM-7M will fly out to almost a 100km, but ask ask any navy pilot and he'll tell you it wouldn't hit anything at that range except perhaps a large blimp -- it'll be a gliding dart mulling around at subsonic speeds.
Der Wille zur Macht!
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much like there are many versions of the aim-120 there are many versions of the R-77 its still a work in progress if the c7 is better than the latest r-77 in a year there will be a new R-77 that is better than the C-7 it never ends.
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I would like to hear some more details about the PLAAF´s C3I/C4I capabilities....what about their data-links,data-fusion?There is no modern air-war without any good data-links,also,if the PLAAF will go in any conflict with its J-10/SU-30MKK and A-50/Y8Y against F-22/15/16 with AWACS/LINK 16.......it will be suicide!!
Our chinese friends need better AEW+C capabilities....
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The MAIN message in the Billboard is:
PLAAF is catching up very fast.
Of course our Jet Industry is still behind top notch countries, but the message is the Gap is closing quickly instead of being larger.
Now, I am already pretty OK with that.
Just check my name: HBN2025, our target year is 2025 though.
Everything is going according to Plan and under control.
As for J-10 against Su-27:
As I said before: some aspects of J-10 better some worse.
No need to dig in too much detail.
HuJinTao, G.Bush, V.Putin they don't know too much details about the J-13 or F-22 or PAK/FA either, same like HBN does not care too much about the detail, I only care the Significance of our J-10 progress and how our Aero Industry is going.
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1) How can you know that if that plane is so secret ?
Nothing can be 100% secret.
Like a family member is a PLAAF pilot who took part in the drill against Su-27, then talk it during dinner, then the kids talk on net lol
2) Have you got the scenarii ? How many J-10 vs how many Su-27 ? Same support ?
Dunno. Not care either.
But only a moron airforce would put 10 J-10 to screw 1 Su-27 during Drill.
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This message has been edited by HBN2025 on Feb 20, 2005 3:34 PM
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"greeky gay, when mass production J-10, Chinese engines will replace the Russian ones."
Heh, thank you for a good laugh, i think thats all i got from your little post. So mnay claims, and absolutly no back up for them. Your word choice is pathetic, superior, its only to superior to those old j-8s, your ripping the disgns from the russians one by one. And now your telling me that you will build an engine to replace this one, haha. The only thing that is superior to Russia and the west is your propaganda, i see that even if you dont live in China that stuff still gets to you. J-10 is not even in production now, and it can barely rival the original f-16s, maybe not even that. J-10, what a joke,
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“When we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope we use.” Joseph Stalin
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HBN you must share some of the blame for not translating the photographed article and for not posting good arguments. Instead of stubbornly saying J-10 is better, you must say why you believe so with solid argumentation.
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Your showing a sign near a plane, lets guess who wrote it. Show me a western pilot commenting on the "superiority" of the J-10, not some Chines made sign that has no evidence of anything and which i cant even read.
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As clearly stated by this part in the showroom billboard:
Translation:
Towards evening 12 March 1997, new interceptor J-10 test fly successfull. J-10's General Performance (capability) is superior against Su-27.
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What "Western" "experts" say about J-10, cares me a dammn bull.
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All I know is that reputable aviation and aerospace publications such as Janes and Aviation Week&Space Technology have been comparing the J-10 most closely to an F-16C in capability in the stories they have carried on it.
The truth is out there - you just may not like hearing it.
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Let's just take the radar range. Assuming that the radar is talking about detection at 100~120km against a head-on target at regular 5^2m RCS target. Flanker series is believed to be on the level of 10^2m RCS head-on. Maximum detection range based on this data for J-10 against Su-27 is...140km? At maximum? I'm not good with calculations, but this shouldn't be too far off.
Now, it really depends on variation of Su-27 I suppose, as well as RCS data for J-10. The latest Russian radar should have detection range of over 140km against 5^2m RCS target. There is absolutely no available data on J-10's RCS data. I at least hope that it is under 5^2m range clean. The delta-canard configuration without heavy RCS-reduction treatment gives off a lot of returns.
I still give Flankers lead on radar detection range despite the shakey data. If the Flankers catch J-10s short of their own detection range, and lead into the radar blind spot (just 30~45 degrees off the center), and begin the engagement off with IRST data, they can enjoy a comfortable lead in either BVR or WVR battle.
This message has been edited by KJlost on Feb 20, 2005 8:51 PM
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F-10: export version of J-10 will be designated F-10 - Fighter-10.
J-10's impact to the PLAAF was like the new T-98 MBT is to the PLA.
It was meant like the "F-16" for the PLAAF if the Flanker was to be the "F-15". Yet its effect to the PLAAF was like the new T-98 main battle tank was to the PLA. As an indigenous design it will signal that China has arrived to a world class design independent from foreign manufacture, although still dependent on foreign technology. Like the T-98, which looked more like a Western rather than a Russian tank, the J-10 can signal a departure from the Russian style design philosophy towards a more Western approach.
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Hey new info, the data thing says 140km forward look-up, 65km forward look-down. It is NOT a rearward detection range, though getting detection range cut in over half by switching to look-down mode seems a bit odd.
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Not sure if you already can read Chinese characters.
The text on the board states:
J-10's "phased radar" which can track 24 targets while striking 4 of them simutanleously.
Forward search 140KM, Rear search 65KM.
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Read many posts.. yeah this is about closing the gaps.
J-10 is important. One of the reasons it remains secret is perhaps China eventually
wants to export J-10, and it does not want to disclose any further info at thsi time.
But, It's also about the next generations, J-13 and others.
Just like the USA had/has many skunk(?) projects, there is no doubt that today
China also has its own skunk projects.. it has the money and many excellent
engineers that can take on many of these next level projects.
It would be interesting to hear more about J-13 and other fighters coming out of
China.
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"Read many posts.. yeah this is about closing the gaps.
J-10 is important. One of the reasons it remains secret is perhaps China eventually
wants to export J-10, and it does not want to disclose any further info at thsi time."
I do not think that anyone in the world is not stating the J-10 is a definite HUGE improvement over what they had before. Dunno who they would really be able to export a J-10 to though??
The truth is out there - you just may not like hearing it.
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The text on the board states:
J-10's "phased radar" which can track 24 targets while striking 4 of them simutanleously.
Forward search 140KM, Rear search 65KM.
Sorry but unless you're a total newbie, you should know that the "forward search 140Km" doesn't mean anything.
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We all know this...but pls don´t bring it in this forum, coz the paks will panic, and won´t continue pressuring the swedes for grippen... or the american for F-16´s
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............David Shambaugh, a leading expert on the Chinese military at George Washington University, further dismissed notions in Europe that it was better to sell weapons to Beijing now as it would only be a matter of time before the mainland would be capable of producing its own high-tech weapons.
``Without access to Western defense tech or end-use weapons, China's indigenous defense capacity will remain quite handicapped,'' Shambaugh said.
``There is broad consensus in the PLA watching community in the United States that, with a few exceptions [like ballistic missiles and missile guidance systems], all other conventional weapons indigenously produced in China's military industrial complex are 10-20 or more years behind the state of the art,'' he said.AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
There is broad consensus in the PLA watching community in the United States that, with a few exceptions [like ballistic missiles and missile guidance systems], all other conventional weapons indigenously produced in China's military industrial complex are 10-20 or more years behind the state of the art,'' he said.AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
The US has basically stopped developing ballistic missiles since the Trident IID5 and the MX Peacekeeper of the 80s. In fact, to satisfy its treaties, the US has decided to phase out it newest and most capable MX ICBM and really on solely the old Minute Man missiles and the Trident IID5 SLBM for strategic deterence.
Der Wille zur Macht!
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<<I do not think that anyone in the world is not stating the J-10 is a definite HUGE improvement over what they had before. Dunno who they would really be able to export a J-10 to though??
-
The other major reasons J-10 remains secret is China does not want disclose further info
until hundreds of J-10 have been serially produced; without doubt J-10 will be its major
fighters for the next 5-10 years which by then J-13,etc. will replace J-10.. this is
assuming J-13,etc. are going through fast-paced development phases.
There are so few countries that do not require 3rd/4th gen. fighters.
Even small countries like Ivory Coast had Sukois..when the French destroyed the fighters.
Evaluations will be based on performance + Price.
If J-10 can be competitively priced, there are many markets
such as: Pakistan, other SE Asian countries, Africa, South America,etc.
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And a very significant achievement along with this J-10 is the Chinese WS-10 turbofan.
Exciting for me in the past 15 years Chinese aero industry goes up super quick, another 15 years will make PLA on top in world military technology.
Make it 20 years then, HBN2025 is my target year.
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"Su-27 is 30 years old, still the main force in Russian airforce."
The J-6 is 50 years old. The original J-7s and J-8s are 40 years old. The newer J-7 and J-8s are 20 years old but based on 40 year old designs.
And just this year the PLAAF got something to replace them.
At least the J-10 is a decent fighter. I'd put it as superior to all Su-27 variants and superior to the Su-30 MKK. Currently it is still vastly inferior to the Su-30MKI, which to my opinion is the best of the Flankers not counting the Su-37. That is why within the last year, China has stopped production of the J-11, and cancelled all Su-27 orders. China has also stopped ordering Su-30MKKs. The only Flanker China has currently on order is the Su-30MK2, but the specifications of that plane is still being developed by Sukhoi. Expect something better than the current J-10 but inferior to the Su-30MKI.
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These pictures have been out for a few months now, and at first many thought it was official, but later information came back as just a Plaque at some airshow or convention. This is unoffical, I'll find the link and other information to get this stuff settled.
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Don't worry mates, we are working on J-13 which is to shoot down F-22
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How pitty is it that China has to compare there "top" fighter with the Fighters from Yesterday from the US, Russia,... .
I mean the Flanker is already an over 20 year old design, same for the F-15, F-16,...
How would the J-10 perform against the EF, F-22, F-35, Rafael, Su-37 or even a Grippen?
Those are the aircrafts that will rule in 5-10 years.
J-10 is an 80s western standard design this may be old but considering that majority of the world's airforce is still using 70s-80s designed aircraft. Russian backbone are Su-27s, the French backbone are the Mirage and USA's are F-15, F-16 and F-18s like how many F-22 are there in service? and F-35 is not even in service yet. So J-10 will still be a very good option for PLAAF to replace the old Mig-21s as the backbone of Chinese airforce.
IMO the J-10 has outperformed the Su-27 in terms of Air to Air combat maybe thats the reason why PLAAF stop the production of license of Su27s and negotiating for Su30MK2s standard instead.
"When China awakes, the world will tremble." -- Napoleon
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The message is the PLAAF is closing the gap rapidly, in 4 to 5 years we will be here talking about J-13 heihei
J-13 has been under way for quite some years, so be patient I would say
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Which countries operate JAS 39 Gripen except Sweden?
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That's not so impressive more, seems your Gripen is not so popular among real military powers think about Nato countries heihei
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Selling fighterplanes gives you a little foreign power clout over these countries since in case of war they need your spare parts lol
It is not only about whos got the best plane its also a matter of having good relations with Unites States and other BIG POWERS anyway in the Czech deal Sweden received help from Tony Blair. the reason BEA was let into the project was manily to get help in the export marketing of the plane and make it Nato compatible its the same tactic with the united defense buy of Bofors!
This message has been edited by Magnus4 on Jul 17, 2005 2:39 PM
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Gripen is a good jet but sorry to predict for you that Sweden will disappear from Jet market in very near future, those real big guys USA, Eurofighters, French will give you a big screw and your Gripen will be like a dead duck no one is seriously going to purchase it then without market you can not afford the cost anymore then you are banged bye bye JAS
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I actually dont want them to export to that many countries Swedish defence equipment should mainly be used as a detterent against potential invader of Sweden for example China lol
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Quote:That's not so impressive more, seems your Gripen is not so popular among real military powers think about Nato countries heihei
well nice bit of arrogance there, but didn't the South African's kick the **** out of the pla trained and equpped guerrilla's in Angola ect, plus the Hungarian's and Czech's have far far more combat experience now then the PLA has, kind of remind's me of us trying to stop PLA soldier's photographing our equipment in Liberia, when they shouldn'thave been, very nosey they were.... (GLAINE AR GCROI, NEART AR NGEAG AGUS BEART DE REIR ARM MBRIARTHAR)
This message has been edited by moughoun on Jul 17, 2005 2:52 PM
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Yes I answered it's the Qin Emperor some 2000 years ago, so?
And BannerMan you from Sweden too?
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The Grippen is better than the J-10 hands down. The Grippen is superior to Rafale, F-15, F-16, F-18, Mirage 2000, Su-27, Su-30, and every fighter currently in service in the world except for EF-2000 and F-22. Saab will continue to make great fighters in the future.
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By the way people, remember the J-10 takes almost all of its basic engineering principles from the Lavi. The Chinese have yet to produce a jet that isn't terrible at everything it does cough J-8 cough from scratch, so don't start worrying urselves quite yet, as long as they continue to copy other peoples ****, they cant very well be anywheres CLOSE to top of the line...
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No matter how you look at it, the J-10 is a commendable symbol of chinese domestic avaitation industry competence. No, it is not comparable to an Su-27 -- not in payload, range, high AoA agility, radar aperture or avionics in general. No, it is probably not even up to late model F-16 standards in terms of sensors, avionics and weapons integration. But it is a very decent fighter that is a class above any J8 variant and at least competitive with older production western fighters that have not been upgraded. And that is pretty darn good for a first shot!
Der Wille zur Macht!
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27th Fighter Squadron "Fightin' Eagles" of 1st combat wing.
(GLAINE AR GCROI, NEART AR NGEAG AGUS BEART DE REIR ARM MBRIARTHAR)
