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Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

January 30 2006 at 9:23 PM
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Anonymous  (Login soyuz123)

http://www.flightinternational.com/Articles/2006/01/31/Navigation/177/204372/Bombardier+to+ditch+CSeries+in+favour+of+RRJ+participation.html

huge freakin news! I've said for a long time that sukhoi should offer up a bid for Bombardier. Together they can give Boeing and Airbus and run for their money but alone they will both be a distant third and fourth forever.

 
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(Login saturn_656)
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Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 30 2006, 9:26 PM 

If Bombardier gets bought out that would be nothing but an unmitigated disaster... cancellation of the C-series is bad enough. I don't think the government would approve it.

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(Login HBN2025)
Middle kingdom(China)

Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 30 2006, 9:30 PM 

Good for Russia.

Things bit by bit show Russia is rapidly recovering from USSR collapse.

Especially the up oil price is a big boom for Russia.






 
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Anonymous
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Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 30 2006, 10:57 PM 

Erm

I read this story as a Canadian & Russian company proceeding forward in a joint venture on a single project.

I'm not seeing anything about merger talks or buyout talks...


 
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(Login saturn_656)
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Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 30 2006, 11:04 PM 

I was responding to Soyuz's statement that Sukhoi should bid for Bombardier.

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Anonymous
(Login soyuz123)

Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 30 2006, 11:05 PM 

I never said there were merger or buyout talks, just that I think there should be, but aerospace is more politics than business and that will make such a thing more than unlikely.

 
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Anonymous
(Login BBuGG)
Immortal Iran

Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 30 2006, 11:06 PM 

Sh!t man! Half of my friends are out of Bombardier then!!
There was a lot of talk about the C-Series in the past a few years but I was always skeptical about the whole idea. Too little too late.

Bombardier is mismanaged big time and need to address that very soon.


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Fool
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Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 30 2006, 11:15 PM 

It's only a consideration first of all. And you know that Shukoi cannot afford to buy Bombardier...

Bombardier is trying to set up to compete with Airbus and Boeing currentyl, but I do agree if Shukoi and Bombardier work together for this project it could be a good development.

If it does happen ....

The only thing I see as a problem is that the RRJ is smaller than what Bombardier wants to put on the market, but the C series isn't going to be a reality until 2010 when the RRJ already has orders etc...

RRJ = 98 seats
C series = 130 seats


"Sh!t man! Half of my friends are out of Bombardier then!!
There was a lot of talk about the C-Series in the past a few years but I was always skeptical about the whole idea. Too little too late.

Bombardier is mismanaged big time and need to address that very soon."

""""The governments of Canada, Quebec and the UK are providing investment funding of $700 million. The governments of Canada and Quebec will invest $262.5 million and $87.5 million. The UK Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) and Invest Northern Ireland (INR) are providing a £180 million investment in the project. The DTI's contribution of £125 million is a repayable launch investment.""""

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/Bombardier2/>


Bombardier is hardly mis-managed since Bombardier has split into two divisions.


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This message has been edited by meemperor on Jan 30, 2006 11:20 PM
This message has been edited by meemperor on Jan 30, 2006 11:18 PM


 
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(Login soyuz123)

Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 30 2006, 11:24 PM 

sukhoi also has the MS-21 in the works, this plane will be larger, this plane will follow the RRJ and should be flying by 2011, the RRJ will be ready in 2008 or so.

Sukhoi was sitting on some 2 billion in cash 2 years ago. Irkut then raised 800 million from its IPO, they could have made a bid for Bombardier after that, had they gone to a bank for an additional 3 billion it would have been very manageable. Bombardier's total market cap is only 5.2 billion. Sukhoi's order book is worth worth 3 billion alone.

Together it would be an 11 billion dollar company. Of course Sukhoi is busy swallowing up MiG and all the other Russian companies right now. The Kremlin want a unified aerospace holding company and is forcing the mergers. MiG's order book is worth an addition 1.2-1.5 billion. Add to that an additional billion from Illyshin and some of the Tupolev off shoots that will also be merged.

 
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(Login meemperor)
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Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 30 2006, 11:34 PM 

Whoa, where are you getting those numbers from ?

Bombardiers assets are in the $20B USD range.

I really wished I would have taken business to get some more solid numbers for you ...

You know Bambardier has a huge business in trains and other transit systems...
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This message has been edited by meemperor on Jan 30, 2006 11:36 PM


 
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(Login soyuz123)

Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 30 2006, 11:38 PM 

market cap is 5.2 billion. Sukhoi doesnt have a market cap since it isnt traded, Irkut, one Sukhoi offshoot is publicly traded but

http://www.stockhouse.com/comp_info.asp?symbol=T.BBD.SV.B

 
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(Login meemperor)
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Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 30 2006, 11:47 PM 

That's not the right Company .....


This site is screwed up.

The link you gave me is to

http://www.stockhouse.com/comp_info.asp?symbol=T.BBD.SV.B>

And it says the company is in "Aerospace/Defense Products & Services" where it's actually in Personal Vehicles(Sea Doo, Ski-doo, small engines...)

Here are the two company sites :

http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp

http://www.brp.com/en-CA/



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This message has been edited by meemperor on Jan 30, 2006 11:50 PM


 
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Anonymous
(Login BBuGG)
Immortal Iran

Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 31 2006, 12:01 AM 

of course they would finance such a huge project since it brings a lot of emplyments into any city they'd decide to make that plane (montreal for now).


Quote:
Bombardier is hardly mis-managed since Bombardier has split into two divisions.


so?! the recreational division is just called Bombardier! they have an option to buy it back in the future.
as for the aerospace division they've lost ground to their main comperitor (Embraer) in the last couple of years and then decide to challenge Boing and Airbus! that's mis management! even many insiders believe this and Bombardier IS going through a lot of change as far as their management is concerned. compared to PWC and RR, Bombardier has been all over the place in the recent years and the C-Siries was a hollow promise to make the company look good.

I wish them luck though

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(Login meemperor)
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Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 31 2006, 12:04 AM 

Quote:
so?! the recreational division is just called Bombardier! they have an option to buy it back in the future.
as for the aerospace division they've lost ground to their main comperitor (Embraer) in the last couple of years and then decide to challenge Boing and Airbus! that's mis management! even many insiders believe this and Bombardier IS going through a lot of change as far as their management is concerned. compared to PWC and RR, Bombardier has been all over the place in the recent years and the C-Siries was a hollow promise to make the company look good.



Lost some ground to Emberar in the small jets. But Embrar simply doesn't have a line up that can compete with Bombardier.

You know the Trasportation divison has been doing very well too ....

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Anonymous
(Login BBuGG)
Immortal Iran

Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 31 2006, 12:46 AM 

well actually dividing the company into two divisions was probably their best managerial decision in the last decade.
now they can put all their resources behind the fragile aerospace division and in 10 years use the profit made in that division to buy back the recreational devition as stipulated in their contract.
Also I think in few years Embraer can seriously challenge Bombardier’s market share in the small and business jet department.
They should be taken very seriously.


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Anonymous
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Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 31 2006, 12:47 AM 

deleted!

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This message has been edited by BBuGG on Jan 31, 2006 12:50 AM


 
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(Login Bota99)
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Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 31 2006, 1:17 AM 

Their is a story on the wires today that Bombardier is considering closing down its Auburn, New York plant too.


The truth is out there - you just may not like hearing it.

 
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Rob
(Login ThebetterRob)

Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 31 2006, 5:37 AM 

This is really bad news for Belfast!

generated by sloganizer.net

 
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Anonymous
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Immortal Iran

Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 31 2006, 5:59 AM 


Bombardier denies report it could abandon CSeries; May close New York plant
18:34:32 EST Jan 30, 2006
ALLAN SWIFT

MONTREAL (CP) - Bombardier Aerospace (TSX:BBD.SV.B) is denying an aviation magazine report that says the company may abandon its CSeries aircraft project and has opened talks with manufacturer Sukhoi over joining a Russian regional jet making program.

Flight International, quoting "sources close to the Canadian project," said in its online edition Monday that Bombardier Aerospace "is on the verge of shelving" is CSeries program, after failing to come up with enough orders from airlines to make it worth launching production of the planned new plane.

Bombardier Inc. (TSX:BBD.SV.B) spokesman Marc Duchesne responded that the company is not abandoning its CSeries program.

"We are talking to many potential partners and customers regarding the CSeries, but all the rest of the article is pure speculation," Duchesne said.

The new jet series, under development for some time with generous support from the Canadian, Quebec and British governments, would be composed of two models seating between 110 and 130 passengers.

The Flight International magazine also said Bombardier is briefing airlines on a possible stretch version of the plane, which seats a maximum of 86 in one class.

Duchesne would not confirm if Bombardier is looking at another derivative of the CRJ900, but added: "We're always looking at these opportunities."

The planned launch of the CSeries has been put off several times, as Bombardier has failed to come up with the required 50 to 100 orders required to launch production, planned for a plant north of Montreal.

In other developments Monday, Bombardier's rail transport division warned of a plant shutdown in New York State, and the aerospace division announced the sale of two turboprops.

William Spurr, president of Bombardier Transportation's North American operations, told the 160 employees at Auburn, N.Y., the closure is "being considered" amid slow orders, the near completion of major projects and the necessity to cut costs.

The Auburn location produces components for Bombardier rail and aerospace products.

The company, a division of Bombardier Inc., will keep its plant at Plattsburgh, N.Y.

Meanwhile, Bombardier Aerospace said South African Express Airways have signed a contract for two 74-seat Q400 turboprops in a deal valued at $48.5 million.

South African Express Airways operates seven Bombardier Dash-8 Series 300 turboprops and six Bombardier CRJ200 regional jets.

The firm order book for the Q400 airliner, assembled in Toronto, now stands at 165 aircraft, of which 106 have been delivered to 13 airlines.

On the Toronto stock market, shares in Bombardier Inc. closed Monday down nine cents at $2.98.

© The Canadian Press, 2006

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/060130/b0130120.html

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(Login Bota99)
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Re: Bombardier ditches CSeries, in talks with Sukhoi to join RRJ project instead!

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January 31 2006, 6:36 PM 

Seems the company officially announced today not the cancelling of the project, but "putting it on hold" until such time as a launch customer can be found.

Bombardier grounds CSeries airliner for now
Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 AM ET

(Updates with company conference call, stock price change. In U.S. dollars)
By Robert Melnbardis

MONTREAL, Jan 31 (Reuters) - Bombardier Inc. (BBDsvb.TO: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Tuesday it could not find enough customers to launch its planned 110- to 130-seat CSeries jet, and would redirect resources from the $2 billion project to its regional aircraft program.

"Without launch orders, we could not make a launch decision," Pierre Beaudoin, president and chief operating officer of Bombardier Aerospace, told reporters during a conference call.

Beaudoin said the CSeries program was on hold, but not abandoned, as it would continue to seek firm orders for the airliner.

"We believe the market is there. It's too early to say one way or another," he said.

Beaudoin also suggested that Bombardier was considering stretching its CRJ900 or developing a larger turboprop that would seat 80 to 100 passengers.

"It is possible that you would see a new regional aircraft before you would see a CSeries," he said.

Beaudoin said Bombardier had discussions with potential partners about the CSeries, including Russia's Sukhoi, but he declined to comment on a report the Canadian company was interested in joining the Russian regional jet program.

Bombardier said it will redeploy 300 workers from the CSeries project to other projects, including business jets, as it focuses on the regional airline market for 80- to 100-seat jets.

A team of 50 employees will remain with the CSeries program, with emphasis on including other partners, the company said.

Bombardier's class B shares fell 12 Canadian cents, or 4 percent, to C$2.86 on the Toronto Stock Exchange shortly after the open on Tuesday before climbing back to C$2.96, off 2 Canadian cents.

MAY STRETCH CRJ900

The decision to shelve the CSeries will bring questions about Bombardier's ability to add new jets to its regional aircraft product line as it faces brisk competition from Brazil's Embraer (EMBR4.SA: Quote, Profile, Research) and Russian and Chinese manufacturers.

Production of Bombardier's original 50-seat CRJ 200 jet has been suspended because of weak demand, and the company is focusing on its CRJ700 and CRJ900 stretch versions of the jet.

Harry Nourse, analyst at Bank of America Securities, said in a research note that he was concerned about Bombardier's strategic direction in aerospace.

He said a reported four-seat stretch of Bombardier's 95-seat CRJ900 may only be a stop-gap measure.

The CSeries was designed as a new aircraft rather than a further stretched version of Bombardier regional jets.

Bombardier said it has spent some $100 million on the CSeries project and expected to spend another C$20 million in the fiscal year that begins on Wednesday. No charges to earnings are expected from Tuesday's annoucement, Beaudoin said.

Bombardier, the world's third-largest civil aircraft maker and the globe's No. 1 manufacturer of trains, had lined up government funding for the CSeries project from Ottawa, Quebec City and London, but none of those funds have been allocated or spent.

Bombardier was looking both for launch customers for the jet and for commercial partners for the project. United Technologies Corp. (UTX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) unit Pratt & Whitney was designing a new engine to lower the aircraft's fuel costs and increase efficiency.

Northwest Airlines Corp. (NWACQ.PK: Quote, Profile, Research) had been a potential launch customer, but the carrier's fleet plans are being modified as it grapples with restructuring under Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh70298_2006-01-31_16-58-32_n31384203_newsml


The truth is out there - you just may not like hearing it.

 
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