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Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

March 12 2006 at 10:12 PM
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Loup  (Login LoupGaroux)
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Here's a translated excerpt from an interview with a Dutch MP, a member of the ruling VVD party, regarding the supposed threat of a Venezuelan invasion of the Netherlands Antilles. The article itself is in Dutch, but this translated bit more or less covers it.

--
Members of parliament in the Netherlands have urged the Minister of Defence to re-evaluate the defensive capabilities around the Netherlands Antilles. According to the government parties CDA and VVD, there is a growing threat coming from Venezuela, which has made several claims on the islands. The Minister of Defence, Henk Kamp, attempted to reassure the parliament by claiming that the Venezuelan armed forces would pose no threat. However, parliament members do not shore the minister’s optimistic view and claim that the forces currently present would not be sufficient in case of an invasion attempt by Venezuela and have therefore asked for a new strategic analysis of the region. Depending on its outcome, they have also asked the minister to re-evaluate the forces currently present and, if necessary, strengthen the capacity.
--

Source: http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/politiek/car20060310_gatenkaas.html?version=1

 
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Paje_Brazil
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 12 2006, 10:16 PM 

Really I would like to see the clown Chávez do it.Its can be the best for to end his half-dictatorial regim and open the doors for US get his oil too.Very good.
Do it Chávez,please do it.

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 12 2006, 10:20 PM 


While mainland Netherlands are being taken over by Islam and the sea they worry about the Dutch Antilles

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Anonymous
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 12 2006, 11:05 PM 

It might not sound realistic now but Chavez is one of those populist leaders that when his ratings are very low he'll pull some stupid sh!t off like that. It would be identical to the falkland war conflict with a goverment low on popularity and conducting a populist move.



"Brazil has rediscovered itself, and this rediscovery is being expressed in its people's enthusiasm and their desire to mobilize to face the huge problems that lie ahead of us."
Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva

 
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Vin
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 12 2006, 11:09 PM 

I remember having discussed an invasion scenario a couple of months ago. I guess it would not be very difficult to take our islands. But seriously, when Hollands reacts, Venezuela would never be able to hold it.

To some extent I agree with the VVD. Keeping up a decent military presence on the Antilles wouldn't hurt us. But we should not become too paranoia. Personally, I don't believe Chavez would be that crazy. I repeat: THAT crazy.

What do you think, Loup?

@Magnus
"While mainland Netherlands are being taken over by Islam and the sea they worry about the Dutch Antilles"

Yeah right.

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 12 2006, 11:48 PM 

uhm the dutch are a member of NATO and the EU

surely chavez knows the response would be devestating?



______
The Ministry of Defence is to consider giving British soldiers basic equipment such as clothes that fit and boots that don't melt in the summer, it announced today. The MoD was responding to a report by MPs that suggested that such equipment would have been "actually quite useful" during the war in Iraq and other recent military escapades.


 
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Anonymous
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 12 2006, 11:50 PM 

the venezuelan army is a joke. 15 Mil helicopters and 100,000 new AK's changes nothing. Despite all the talk Chavez has not bought a single MiG and probably wont.



 
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AliBeekar
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 12:54 AM 

Holland should give up all the lands that do not belong to them. Their collonial days are over.

France has a tiny island righ by Eastern front of canada. soon Ottawa will claim it as part of canada. Canadian arm forces (both Dave and Tom) will invade that island as soon as they are done building a canoe big enough to across the water.

Çí æÇÑËÇä Ç˜í ãä ÂÎÑíä äÇåã
ÈÑ ÂÓãÇä ÂÈí Çíä Îǘ æ ÎáíÌ åãíԐí ÝÇÑÓ
ÝÇÑÓ ÝÇÑÓ ÎæÇåÏ ÈæÏ

 
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xihaoli
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Middle Kingdom (China)

Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 1:03 AM 

Hmm...if there was an invasion by Veneuzla, I honestly can't consider U.S Intervention. The rules of the Monroe Doctrine, one that have existed in America for 190 years, clearly states that they oppose any Europeon intervention in the Americas. Also, going along with their "good Neighbour" policy following world two, which premoted a hands off policy by America over over the South, the US would be making Hypacrits of themselves by internvening. Venezuela simply have to take the pretex of expelling the imperialistic dogs once and for all from the Americas, (Not my opinion, but would make nice propaganda) and he would gain the support of quite a few countries.

In terms of military, Venezuela certainly have the ability to invade, their eqipment might be old and outclassed, but what exactly does the dutch have? Can the dutch government afford to project a force all the way across the Atlantic? To do that you would need carriers, destroyers, and LHPs such as the Royal Navy during the Falklands.

Britian's occupation of the Falklands is like the Isreali's occupation of Gaza, they simply don't beling there and they never will be accepted.

As far as I know of the French land in the Canada coast, isn't it just a small island the French have been using for Cod Fishing off the new foundland coast? Honestly can't see Canada taking it over and breaking a british-french treaty from over 200 years ago. Hell, they kept the queen, why can't they keep the treaties.


    
This message has been edited by xihaoli on Mar 13, 2006 1:06 AM


 
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Anonymous
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 1:11 AM 

The EU would act.

When the falklands where invaded the european community
imposed sanctions before any other group..and information
was given on exocet..despite the relationships between the
countries in the community being far looser.


Quote
______________
Britian's occupation of the Falklands is like the Isreali's occupation of Gaza, they simply don't beling there and they never will be accepted.
+++

Accepted by who?.. the inhabitants want to be british..subject for
a different thread i think though.

______
The Ministry of Defence is to consider giving British soldiers basic equipment such as clothes that fit and boots that don't melt in the summer, it announced today. The MoD was responding to a report by MPs that suggested that such equipment would have been "actually quite useful" during the war in Iraq and other recent military escapades.


 
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xihaoli
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Middle Kingdom (China)

Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 1:28 AM 

But you must also remember that it is a "Europeon Union" Pact, America is not included. In fact, there were severaly incidents during the 1920s when american warships were actually used to deter Europeon agression in South America. During the Falklands, I do not believe that America intervenined in any way. Now days, with the British in Iraq, the french in an isolationist mood, and the German navy a self defence force, whos going to help Holland?

Prove to me that the natives of the Falklands enjopy being British Subjects, theres a reason why they want independence or commonwealth status. Then again, the situation might be like Australia today, there simply arn't enough natives to gain political power anymore.


    
This message has been edited by xihaoli on Mar 13, 2006 1:30 AM


 
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Mordoch
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 1:36 AM 

"Hmm...if there was an invasion by Veneuzla, I honestly can't consider U.S Intervention. The rules of the Monroe Doctrine, one that have existed in America for 190 years, clearly states that they oppose any Europeon intervention in the Americas. Also, going along with their "good Neighbour" policy following world two, which premoted a hands off policy by America over over the South, the US would be making Hypacrits of themselves by internvening. Venezuela simply have to take the pretex of expelling the imperialistic dogs once and for all from the Americas, (Not my opinion, but would make nice propaganda) and he would gain the support of quite a few countries.

In terms of military, Venezuela certainly have the ability to invade, their eqipment might be old and outclassed, but what exactly does the dutch have? Can the dutch government afford to project a force all the way across the Atlantic? To do that you would need carriers, destroyers, and LHPs such as the Royal Navy during the Falklands."

The Monroe Doctrine clearly does not apply to this situation. The Dutch have held the Antilles for centuries, the Monroe Doctrine only applies to NEW conquests by Europeans, certainly not them holding their current territories. It would be a great opportunity for the US to deal with Chavez and not be the agressor.

The Dutch equipment includes 4 De Zeven Provincien frigates with 32 VLS cell SM-2 Missiles each and 32 ESSM Missiles in a VLS cell, along with 8 Harpoon anti-ship missiles. I can start list all the Dutch Navy if necessary. The Dutch have have Tomahawk Missiles they can use, and they also have a 12,000 ton LPD. Unless Venezuella manges to quickly take all the Dutch Islands, the Netherlands can simply base their roughly 100 F-16s out of the other islands to get the job done.

 
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Mordoch
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 1:40 AM 

"Prove to me that the natives of the Falklands enjopy being British Subjects, theres a reason why they want independence or commonwealth status. Then again, the situation might be like Australia today, there simply arn't enough natives to gain political power anymore."

I don't think you understand the situation in the Falklands at all. It was a Spanish colony for only a few years before the people there got kicked out. Its been a British colony since then. There are not any Argentines there from when it was briefly a Spanish colony. The Argentine claim on the islands are simply absurd and silly. The people of the Falklands are virtually exclusively White English speaking people of British ancestry. You're just plain making stuff up about the people of the Falklands wanting independance, I'd like to see ANY credible evidence supporting it.

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 1:42 AM 

Prove to me that the natives of the Falklands enjopy being British Subjects, theres a reason why they want independence or commonwealth status. Then again, the situation might be like Australia today, there simply arn't enough natives to gain political power anymore.
___

Well the simple answer is the 1985 constitution gave them the
right to self determination, including the right to seek
independance if they wished.

______
The Ministry of Defence is to consider giving British soldiers basic equipment such as clothes that fit and boots that don't melt in the summer, it announced today. The MoD was responding to a report by MPs that suggested that such equipment would have been "actually quite useful" during the war in Iraq and other recent military escapades.


 
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Hawkssss
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 1:48 AM 

How convenient..... Just take up a barren chain of islands 8000 miles away from your country and put a bunch of british there and ask whether they want independence..... l1o1l1o11o1l


 
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Spider
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 1:54 AM 

Exactly, is just like Hawkssss says. Its like asking people in the israeli settlements in the west bank whether they want to be israeli o palestinian.

On this venezuelan invasion, Chavez is not that crazy. It'd be a perfect excuse for the US to invade Venezuela.






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This message has been edited by spider034 on Mar 13, 2006 1:57 AM


 
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BarbaMitso
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 1:55 AM 

The Venezuelans wouldn't touch the islands. There would be a response from NATO and it would be an excuse for the US to mess up Chavez.

Ive been to the Dutch islands in the Carib. and can guarantee the ppl would rather be with the Dutch than Venezuela.

 
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Hawkssss
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 2:01 AM 

oh come on, how can NATO get into this kind of thing? NATO's aim was against USSR and communists in the old days and really doesn't serve any purpose now....It will never get involved in things of this nature and the Dutch really have to means to keep it..... Holland is no UK....


 
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xihaoli
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Middle Kingdom (China)

Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 2:05 AM 

You call the Argentina's claim over the Falklands Absurd, yet you do realize that the only claim of any imperialistic nation over a coloney is the conqest of that nation. The Argentina's at least had the claim of proexmity, along with a failed military conquest, while the british simply had the fact that the Spanish surrendered all of their south American possesions in 1811 and the Island went to Britian.

By your sense of righteouness, if a people were to conqueuor another, exile/destroy their culture, and then install their own, do the conqueors have the right to call the land their own. Even though some may call this correct, can the exile people not seek to regain their homeland?

As for the economy of these lands, the Britsh and Holland certainly have not mainteined them well...Even today, the flaklands still relies on 95 erpcent agricultural for its economy and depends mainly on touristry as it's main source of reveneue (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/fk.html> /// economy section)

As for the Dutch military, they may have a fair navy/airforce, but they lack the power to project it across long distances. Even with the forth LST fleet in the world, many still consider china lacking in ability to project forces to an island 100 km off its shore. What makes you think Holland can do it across the Altantic? Also considering the need for nation defence.

I'm simply sick of all this talk about Chavez. If you had a piece of land stolen from you, and the master of that land is 8000 miles away, what would you do?

Notice how strange it is that the people who denounce the invasion are all of former nations that have practiced imperialism....and those who oppose are the ones that have been subjected to it.

Heres a quote from Lincoln, "Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."

You can make the connection.

I wonder when the flames will start....


    
This message has been edited by xihaoli on Mar 13, 2006 2:12 AM


 
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Mordoch
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Re: Dutch MPs fear Venezuelan invasion of the Antilles

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March 13 2006, 2:24 AM 

"You call the Argentina's claim over the Falklands Absurd, yet you do realize that the only claim of any imperialistic nation over a coloney is the conqest of that nation. The Argentina's at least had the claim of proexmity, along with a failed military conquest, while the british simply had the fact that the Spanish surrendered all of their south American possesions in 1811 and the Island went to Britian.

By your sense of righteouness, if a people were to conqueuor another, exile/destroy their culture, and then install their own, do the conqueors have the right to call the land their own. Even though some may call this correct, can the exile people not seek to regain their homeland?

As for the economy of these lands, the Britsh and Holland certainly have not mainteined them well...Even today, the flaklands still relies on 95 erpcent agricultural for its economy and depends mainly on touristry as it's main source of reveneue"

Uh, other than an attack by Argentina being naked agression, I don't see what your point is here. Its not like the Spanish were around long enough to establish anything that could be considered a true culture on the islands!

By the way, the British first established a base in the Falklands in 1766. It wasn't until 1767 that a previously French colony was taken over by Spain in the Falklands. There had never been a native population on these islands prior to these colonies being established. The British temperarily abandoned their colony, but didn't withdraw their claims on the islands. The Spanish ALSO VOLUNTARILY ABANDONED the colony in 1806. Spain didn't re-establish a colony of the islands until 1828. The US navy actually kicked out the Spaniards from the colony in 1831 after the governer of the islands arrested the crew of three US schooners. In other words, a tiny number of Spaniards left the island after living there for 3 years in 1833.
http://www.history.horizon.co.fk/chronology.html

This doesn't even remotely compare to the rights of people who have been there for 170 years. Claiming that Argentina has the right to the Falklands is simply a preposterous position which justifies true imperialism by neglecting the right of the people living there in the place of a weak historical claim or the even more dubious claim of "geographical proximity".


    
This message has been edited by Mordoch on Mar 13, 2006 2:27 AM


 
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