Here's a translated excerpt from an interview with a Dutch MP, a member of the ruling VVD party, regarding the supposed threat of a Venezuelan invasion of the Netherlands Antilles. The article itself is in Dutch, but this translated bit more or less covers it.

--
Members of parliament in the Netherlands have urged the Minister of Defence to re-evaluate the defensive capabilities around the Netherlands Antilles. According to the government parties CDA and VVD, there is a growing threat coming from Venezuela, which has made several claims on the islands. The Minister of Defence, Henk Kamp, attempted to reassure the parliament by claiming that the Venezuelan armed forces would pose no threat. However, parliament members do not shore the minister�s optimistic view and claim that the forces currently present would not be sufficient in case of an invasion attempt by Venezuela and have therefore asked for a new strategic analysis of the region. Depending on its outcome, they have also asked the minister to re-evaluate the forces currently present and, if necessary, strengthen the capacity.
--

Source: http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/politiek/car20060310_gatenkaas.html?version=1

Really I would like to see the clown Ch�vez do it.Its can be the best for to end his half-dictatorial regim and open the doors for US get his oil too.Very good.
Do it Ch�vez,please do it.

While mainland Netherlands are being taken over by Islam and the sea they worry about the Dutch Antilles






I would have made a good Pope."
- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)


I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us.
Pigs treat us as equals.
- Sir Winston Churchill ( 1874-1965)

It might not sound realistic now but Chavez is one of those populist leaders that when his ratings are very low he'll pull some stupid sh!t off like that. It would be identical to the falkland war conflict with a goverment low on popularity and conducting a populist move.



"Brazil has rediscovered itself, and this rediscovery is being expressed in its people's enthusiasm and their desire to mobilize to face the huge problems that lie ahead of us."
Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva

I remember having discussed an invasion scenario a couple of months ago. I guess it would not be very difficult to take our islands. But seriously, when Hollands reacts, Venezuela would never be able to hold it.

To some extent I agree with the VVD. Keeping up a decent military presence on the Antilles wouldn't hurt us. But we should not become too paranoia. Personally, I don't believe Chavez would be that crazy. I repeat: THAT crazy.

What do you think, Loup?

@Magnus
"While mainland Netherlands are being taken over by Islam and the sea they worry about the Dutch Antilles"

Yeah right.

uhm the dutch are a member of NATO and the EU

surely chavez knows the response would be devestating?



______
The Ministry of Defence is to consider giving British soldiers basic equipment such as clothes that fit and boots that don't melt in the summer, it announced today. The MoD was responding to a report by MPs that suggested that such equipment would have been "actually quite useful" during the war in Iraq and other recent military escapades.

the venezuelan army is a joke. 15 Mil helicopters and 100,000 new AK's changes nothing. Despite all the talk Chavez has not bought a single MiG and probably wont.

Holland should give up all the lands that do not belong to them. Their collonial days are over.

France has a tiny island righ by Eastern front of canada. soon Ottawa will claim it as part of canada. Canadian arm forces (both Dave and Tom) will invade that island as soon as they are done building a canoe big enough to across the water.

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Hmm...if there was an invasion by Veneuzla, I honestly can't consider U.S Intervention. The rules of the Monroe Doctrine, one that have existed in America for 190 years, clearly states that they oppose any Europeon intervention in the Americas. Also, going along with their "good Neighbour" policy following world two, which premoted a hands off policy by America over over the South, the US would be making Hypacrits of themselves by internvening. Venezuela simply have to take the pretex of expelling the imperialistic dogs once and for all from the Americas, (Not my opinion, but would make nice propaganda) and he would gain the support of quite a few countries.

In terms of military, Venezuela certainly have the ability to invade, their eqipment might be old and outclassed, but what exactly does the dutch have? Can the dutch government afford to project a force all the way across the Atlantic? To do that you would need carriers, destroyers, and LHPs such as the Royal Navy during the Falklands.

Britian's occupation of the Falklands is like the Isreali's occupation of Gaza, they simply don't beling there and they never will be accepted.

As far as I know of the French land in the Canada coast, isn't it just a small island the French have been using for Cod Fishing off the new foundland coast? Honestly can't see Canada taking it over and breaking a british-french treaty from over 200 years ago. Hell, they kept the queen, why can't they keep the treaties.

The EU would act.

When the falklands where invaded the european community
imposed sanctions before any other group..and information
was given on exocet..despite the relationships between the
countries in the community being far looser.


Quote
______________
Britian's occupation of the Falklands is like the Isreali's occupation of Gaza, they simply don't beling there and they never will be accepted.
+++

Accepted by who?.. the inhabitants want to be british..subject for
a different thread i think though.

______
The Ministry of Defence is to consider giving British soldiers basic equipment such as clothes that fit and boots that don't melt in the summer, it announced today. The MoD was responding to a report by MPs that suggested that such equipment would have been "actually quite useful" during the war in Iraq and other recent military escapades.

But you must also remember that it is a "Europeon Union" Pact, America is not included. In fact, there were severaly incidents during the 1920s when american warships were actually used to deter Europeon agression in South America. During the Falklands, I do not believe that America intervenined in any way. Now days, with the British in Iraq, the french in an isolationist mood, and the German navy a self defence force, whos going to help Holland?

Prove to me that the natives of the Falklands enjopy being British Subjects, theres a reason why they want independence or commonwealth status. Then again, the situation might be like Australia today, there simply arn't enough natives to gain political power anymore.

"Hmm...if there was an invasion by Veneuzla, I honestly can't consider U.S Intervention. The rules of the Monroe Doctrine, one that have existed in America for 190 years, clearly states that they oppose any Europeon intervention in the Americas. Also, going along with their "good Neighbour" policy following world two, which premoted a hands off policy by America over over the South, the US would be making Hypacrits of themselves by internvening. Venezuela simply have to take the pretex of expelling the imperialistic dogs once and for all from the Americas, (Not my opinion, but would make nice propaganda) and he would gain the support of quite a few countries.

In terms of military, Venezuela certainly have the ability to invade, their eqipment might be old and outclassed, but what exactly does the dutch have? Can the dutch government afford to project a force all the way across the Atlantic? To do that you would need carriers, destroyers, and LHPs such as the Royal Navy during the Falklands."

The Monroe Doctrine clearly does not apply to this situation. The Dutch have held the Antilles for centuries, the Monroe Doctrine only applies to NEW conquests by Europeans, certainly not them holding their current territories. It would be a great opportunity for the US to deal with Chavez and not be the agressor.

The Dutch equipment includes 4 De Zeven Provincien frigates with 32 VLS cell SM-2 Missiles each and 32 ESSM Missiles in a VLS cell, along with 8 Harpoon anti-ship missiles. I can start list all the Dutch Navy if necessary. The Dutch have have Tomahawk Missiles they can use, and they also have a 12,000 ton LPD. Unless Venezuella manges to quickly take all the Dutch Islands, the Netherlands can simply base their roughly 100 F-16s out of the other islands to get the job done.

"Prove to me that the natives of the Falklands enjopy being British Subjects, theres a reason why they want independence or commonwealth status. Then again, the situation might be like Australia today, there simply arn't enough natives to gain political power anymore."

I don't think you understand the situation in the Falklands at all. It was a Spanish colony for only a few years before the people there got kicked out. Its been a British colony since then. There are not any Argentines there from when it was briefly a Spanish colony. The Argentine claim on the islands are simply absurd and silly. The people of the Falklands are virtually exclusively White English speaking people of British ancestry. You're just plain making stuff up about the people of the Falklands wanting independance, I'd like to see ANY credible evidence supporting it.

Prove to me that the natives of the Falklands enjopy being British Subjects, theres a reason why they want independence or commonwealth status. Then again, the situation might be like Australia today, there simply arn't enough natives to gain political power anymore.
___

Well the simple answer is the 1985 constitution gave them the
right to self determination, including the right to seek
independance if they wished.

______
The Ministry of Defence is to consider giving British soldiers basic equipment such as clothes that fit and boots that don't melt in the summer, it announced today. The MoD was responding to a report by MPs that suggested that such equipment would have been "actually quite useful" during the war in Iraq and other recent military escapades.

How convenient..... Just take up a barren chain of islands 8000 miles away from your country and put a bunch of british there and ask whether they want independence..... l1o1l1o11o1l

Exactly, is just like Hawkssss says. Its like asking people in the israeli settlements in the west bank whether they want to be israeli o palestinian.

On this venezuelan invasion, Chavez is not that crazy. It'd be a perfect excuse for the US to invade Venezuela.

---

The Venezuelans wouldn't touch the islands. There would be a response from NATO and it would be an excuse for the US to mess up Chavez.

Ive been to the Dutch islands in the Carib. and can guarantee the ppl would rather be with the Dutch than Venezuela.

oh come on, how can NATO get into this kind of thing? NATO's aim was against USSR and communists in the old days and really doesn't serve any purpose now....It will never get involved in things of this nature and the Dutch really have to means to keep it..... Holland is no UK....

You call the Argentina's claim over the Falklands Absurd, yet you do realize that the only claim of any imperialistic nation over a coloney is the conqest of that nation. The Argentina's at least had the claim of proexmity, along with a failed military conquest, while the british simply had the fact that the Spanish surrendered all of their south American possesions in 1811 and the Island went to Britian.

By your sense of righteouness, if a people were to conqueuor another, exile/destroy their culture, and then install their own, do the conqueors have the right to call the land their own. Even though some may call this correct, can the exile people not seek to regain their homeland?

As for the economy of these lands, the Britsh and Holland certainly have not mainteined them well...Even today, the flaklands still relies on 95 erpcent agricultural for its economy and depends mainly on touristry as it's main source of reveneue (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/fk.html> /// economy section)

As for the Dutch military, they may have a fair navy/airforce, but they lack the power to project it across long distances. Even with the forth LST fleet in the world, many still consider china lacking in ability to project forces to an island 100 km off its shore. What makes you think Holland can do it across the Altantic? Also considering the need for nation defence.

I'm simply sick of all this talk about Chavez. If you had a piece of land stolen from you, and the master of that land is 8000 miles away, what would you do?

Notice how strange it is that the people who denounce the invasion are all of former nations that have practiced imperialism....and those who oppose are the ones that have been subjected to it.

Heres a quote from Lincoln, "Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."

You can make the connection.

I wonder when the flames will start....

"You call the Argentina's claim over the Falklands Absurd, yet you do realize that the only claim of any imperialistic nation over a coloney is the conqest of that nation. The Argentina's at least had the claim of proexmity, along with a failed military conquest, while the british simply had the fact that the Spanish surrendered all of their south American possesions in 1811 and the Island went to Britian.

By your sense of righteouness, if a people were to conqueuor another, exile/destroy their culture, and then install their own, do the conqueors have the right to call the land their own. Even though some may call this correct, can the exile people not seek to regain their homeland?

As for the economy of these lands, the Britsh and Holland certainly have not mainteined them well...Even today, the flaklands still relies on 95 erpcent agricultural for its economy and depends mainly on touristry as it's main source of reveneue"

Uh, other than an attack by Argentina being naked agression, I don't see what your point is here. Its not like the Spanish were around long enough to establish anything that could be considered a true culture on the islands!

By the way, the British first established a base in the Falklands in 1766. It wasn't until 1767 that a previously French colony was taken over by Spain in the Falklands. There had never been a native population on these islands prior to these colonies being established. The British temperarily abandoned their colony, but didn't withdraw their claims on the islands. The Spanish ALSO VOLUNTARILY ABANDONED the colony in 1806. Spain didn't re-establish a colony of the islands until 1828. The US navy actually kicked out the Spaniards from the colony in 1831 after the governer of the islands arrested the crew of three US schooners. In other words, a tiny number of Spaniards left the island after living there for 3 years in 1833.
http://www.history.horizon.co.fk/chronology.html

This doesn't even remotely compare to the rights of people who have been there for 170 years. Claiming that Argentina has the right to the Falklands is simply a preposterous position which justifies true imperialism by neglecting the right of the people living there in the place of a weak historical claim or the even more dubious claim of "geographical proximity".

You say that the Argentinans had no right to violate the people that had been living there for 170 years, fair.

The Argentinas and British both have the equal claim over the Falklands as acts of "naked agression," The Argentinas simply have the advantage of having closer racial relations with the native, whom you prclaim as never existed.....

"There had never been a native population on these islands prior to these colonies being established. "

Could you please provide evidence of this statement? As in the case of the Aztecs and the Mayans, simply because they're all dead dosen't mean they never existed.

The evidence is that the Falklands had not been permantly inhabitted by a native population. Recent evidence suggests that nearby natives may have briefly visted the islands, but the islands had no people living on them when first discovered by Europeans.

"The Falkland Islands were uninhabited when discovered by Europeans, but the recent discovery of the remains of a wooden canoe is strong evidence that they had previously been visited, most probably by the Yaghan people of Tierra del Fuego. It has also been suggested that the Falkland Island foxes, or warrahs, found on the islands were introduced by the Yaghans, bearing as they did a resemblance to the culpeo or Fuegian fox.

An archipelago in the region of the Falkland Islands appeared on maps from the early 16th century, suggesting they may have been sighted by Ferdinand Magellan's or another expedition of the 1500s. Amerigo Vespucci is believed to have sighted the islands in 1502, but did not name them. Both explorers were in Spanish service. In 1519 or 1520, Esteban G�mez of the "San Antonio", one of the captains in the expedition of Magellan, deserted this enterprise and encountered several islands, which members of his crew called "Islas de Sans�n y de los Patos" ("Islands of Samson and the Ducks"). Although these islands were probably the Jason Islands, a group northwest of West Falkland, the names "Islas de Sans�n" (or "San Ant�n," "San Son," and "Ascensi�n") were used for the Falklands on Spanish maps during this period.

When English explorer John Davis, commander of the "Desire", one of the ships belonging to Thomas Cavendish's second expedition to the New World, separated from Cavendish off the coast of what is now southern Argentina, he decided to make for the Strait of Magellan in order to find Cavendish. On August 9, 1592 a severe storm battered his ship, and Davis drifted under bare masts, taking refuge "among certain Isles never before discovered." Consequently, for a time the Falklands were known as "Davis Land" or "Davis' Land.""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Falkland_Islands

Well, when I first read the article, I wasn't sure how credible it was. Of course, several remarks have already been made about this possibility, but I've never seen it as a likely scenario. However, a group of parliament members recently paid a visit to the area and according to Szabo of the VVD, Chavez has claimed that whenever we would take a step backwards, with regard to the forces present in the area, he would 'take a step forward' with regards to the islands.

Defending the islands would be hard, probably too hard. Most of the equipment is here or tied up in Afhanistan, Iraq or elsewhere and currently, we only have a few hundred marines on the islands, along with one frigate, a few minor vessels, some coast guard ships and helos and two patrol aicraft. Venezuela has the advantage that they have all their forces available. Still, getting the manpower and equipment there isn't going to be an easy task for Chavez.

The main problem Szabo had, was the fact that a new radar installation was going to be installed on the other three islands (Sabe, St.Maarten and St.Eustatius), but as of yet, there are no plans for Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao, while those are the islands Chavez has (seemingly) targetted. And, as he said, even if there was an installation present, there should be enough forces available to neutralize any threat as soon as it was detected.

Personally, I don't believe we can rely on Nato or the EU on this occasion. The Brits didn't receive that much support during the Falkland war either. I do feel we can rely on the UK and the US; the US mainly because they absolutely detest Chavez.

And regarding the question of independence for the islands; well, polls show that the population wants to remain part of the kingdom. I also assume that if they do not desire independence, they will certainly not desire to be part of Venezuela.

I think the Dutch should ask the US and maybe the UK also to hold some bilateral/trilateral "exercizes" in the area. That should scare them off.

BAe - Europe's leading company for stealth UCAV

I think the Dutch should ask the US and maybe the UK also to hold some bilateral/trilateral "exercizes" in the area. That should scare them off.

Actually, I posted a while ago, that a large maritime exercise was going to be held in the region, including Dutch, British, US, French and Belgian ships. An invitation was also sent out to Venezuela (one can wonder why...) but as far as I know, it has been declined. The operation, called Join Caribbean Lion (NLMARFOR) will start on may the 10th and will run until the end of june.
Apart from naval assets, the Dutch are also sending in contingents from the army and air force.

Yawn

the Monroe Doctrine specificly excluded existing European setelments in the Americas, indeed it was the Royal Navy that defacto enforced it for a long time as the Americans where in no position to do so.


As for the position of British rule over the FALKLANDS, well lets put it this way

We descoverd them
We landed on them
we have held on to them longest

there has never been an native population, the islands have been British shince before the country or Argentina even existed

so forgive me if I think Argentina has absolutly no case

the Argentines only have geographical location, the rest of ther claim is based on a papal declaration spliting up the new world between Spain and Portugal sometime in the 16th century.




Federal Commonwealth Society


"The builders of this empire were not worthy of such an army. Two centuries of persecution could not wear out its patience; two centuries of thankless toil could not abate its ardour; two centuries of conquest could not awaken its insolence. Dutiful to its masters, merciful to its enemies, it clung steadfastly to its old, simple ideas - obedience, service, sacrifice."

READ THE RULES

there has never been an native population

sigh... it sickens me to see the penguins receive so little respect...

Mordoch, if you're really interested in the subject try to get at least a more impartial source. A .fk website is not very impartial. The wikipedia link you posted below is much better.

We've already had this discussion in the old "North and South American Forum" there's a very long thread about it. Malvinas flare-up?

Quote: In other words, a tiny number of Spaniards left the island after living there for 3 years in 1833.

This is the actual timeline.

British settlement: lasted 9 years from 1766 to 1774.

French/Spanish settlement: lasted 48 years from 1764 to 1811. (First 3 years French, the rest spanish.)

Argentine settlement: between 1820 and the 3rd of January 1833.

It should be noted that the british never set foot on Isla Soledad (East Falkland) until their attack in 1833.

---

Personally I don't think the Netherlands could thwart an overall invasion of the islands, because basically it doesn't have the numbers to do so. The invasion would be swift and efficent with the islands coming into the control of the Venezuelans in a matter of days if not hours. However the netherlands along with NATO and the E.U have the capability to easily retake the land taken from them. First off in the Falklands the argentines were alot better equipped and trained than the current venezuelan force, what failed them and ultimately lost the war was their poor leadership.



"Brazil has rediscovered itself, and this rediscovery is being expressed in its people's enthusiasm and their desire to mobilize to face the huge problems that lie ahead of us."
Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva

For background please read following link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_Antilles

This is a regional problem, so what help can the Antilles expect from other nations in South America and the Caribbean?

France has a patrol frigate and five patrol corvettes based in martinique and French Guyana. I'm pretty sure if the Venezuelans are up to no good, they'll be deployed around the N. antilles to twart any plan of invasion. Alone they capable of holding anything the Venezuelan navy can throw at them until the more powerful Dutch destroyers arrive.

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/ventose/photo04.htm

Ventose permanently based in Martinique


Dutch de zeven class destroyer.

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

or read the time line I posted here

http://www.network54.com/Forum/243030/thread/1073382646/last-1087296034/why+didn%27t+Britain+invade+Argentina

Federal Commonwealth Society


"The builders of this empire were not worthy of such an army. Two centuries of persecution could not wear out its patience; two centuries of thankless toil could not abate its ardour; two centuries of conquest could not awaken its insolence. Dutiful to its masters, merciful to its enemies, it clung steadfastly to its old, simple ideas - obedience, service, sacrifice."

READ THE RULES

Well, its an interesting scenario we have here. Dont we. The Europeans are still reeling from the days of colonial hangover. The mighty Ducth are worried that Venezuela will take over a colony of theirs, whats the name, oh yes Antilles.

I dont know how many people in this forum are Dutch. But let me ask anyway. How many of you people enjoyed or would have enjoyed Nazi rule over Holland when it was invaded. You rascals invade a helpless country/island when you were at the height of your power while pray for help when you were crushed by the Nazis. Tell me one country from the victorious Allied group in both world wars that didnt practice imperialism and yet they blames Germany. Goddamm hypocrites. I like the fact that France which was second only to England in imperialism/colonialism formed a group the "Free French" to liberate themselves from Nazi rule.LOL. The coloniser colonised.

I have to agree with Xiaholi, the European mentality sucks. You people dont feel any shame or the pangs of guilty conscience when you read how your countries occupied the "colonies" but are bragging now about how your military will recover your lost colonies; "colonies" not part of your homeland. You talk about Dutch military, I ask what the phuck is Dutch military. What do they have to conduct and invasion scenario across the Atlantic. Regarding the NATO, who will send their forces to help Holland. Germany? As likely as USA invading Mars. UK? Hard to say, but can they stretch their 100,000 strong military all over the Globe like that, when they already have the prospect of an Iranian invasion, not to mention political constraints back home. France? Dont think that will make a damm difference at all, you know why.

That doesnt mean i support Venezuelan invasion. Each country shuld have a right to decide its own course. But i just like the self-righteous hypocrisy of the Europeans.

"French/Spanish settlement: lasted 48 years from 1764 to 1811. (First 3 years French, the rest spanish.)

Argentine settlement: between 1820 and the 3rd of January 1833."

You should educate yourself on this subject beyond Argentinian propoganda.

In 1806 most of the Spaniards left the islands, with the rest withdrawing voluntarily in 1811. Argenina didn't establish anything resembling formal control over the islands until 1826, with a colony formally being established in 1828. Prior to this it was a free for all with all sorts of different nationalities on the island, mostly making brief stops while fishing. Virtually all the people in the Falklands were removed by the US Navy in 1831, this was a whopping total of merely 47 people! Argentina brought in some additional different people to the Falklands the next year, but they had merely been there for about 2 years when kicked out by the British.
http://www.history.horizon.co.fk/chronology.html

Frankly I don't find this a very convincing historical claim at all. It certainly doesn't remotely justify Argentina trying to claim the Falklands or invade it today.

This is a regional problem, so what help can the Antilles expect from other nations in South America and the Caribbean?


Why would it be a regional problem? Although the Antilles are no longer considered a colony but a member of the kingdom, they still rely on their mother country with regards to defence, foreign policy and (some) judicial matters.

@Free Nation

Of course, the Antilles were colonized under imperialistic rule, yet their current status is completely different. As I said before, they are a part of the kingdom, and if they want their independence, they are free to do so, but they don't want to. What exactly would be hypocrital about this?

Second, who's talking about an invasion? If it ever got this far, no one will be interested in invading Venezuela, merely to remove Venezuelan presence from the islands themselves. That part itself wouldn't be too difficult; the main two problems are getting the necessary equipment there and stopping an outright invasion. The forces currently present (a single frigate, some patrol craft and two patrol aircraft) will not be enough to stop an invasion, although it is unlikely that Venezuela itself could muster enough capabilities to succesfully invade the islands. Taking the islands back will be a logistic nightmare; the only advantage we have over the Brits during the Falklands war, is that we have other bases in the area. Logistically speaking, one LPD would be insufficient; the second one won't be in service for a few years (2007-2009) and the proposed LPH even later (2009-2011), which means we would have to rely on either allied capabilities or civilian capabilities. The latter one might be difficult to organize but I don't think it would be difficult to carry out; it is unlikely Venezuela would manage to create either a maritime or aerial supremacy, so civilian ships could transport military hardware, more or less without problems.

But for now, it's all hypothetical. Chavez has a big mouth but so far, has shown very little action.

"Personally I don't think the Netherlands could thwart an overall invasion of the islands, because basically it doesn't have the numbers to do so. The invasion would be swift and efficent with the islands coming into the control of the Venezuelans in a matter of days if not hours."

I don't think you realize how much military force the Dutch actually have in the area, particularly Aruba. You have an entire Marine battallion based on the island, these are well trained and equipped troops that can oppose any landing. The islands also feature ships that are ordinarily used for antidrug patrols. However, my understand is these are Karel Doorman frigates with 8 Harpoon anti-ship missiles each as well as 16 Sea Sparrow Missiles for SAM duties. These ships can do ugly things to invasion craft if not elminated first. Basically even with complete surprise, Venezuella is going to have some problems taking the islands.

You rascals invade a helpless country/island when you were at the height of your power while pray for help when you were crushed by the Nazis.

The Antilles were conquered from Spain, with whom the Dutch were at war with.

"You people dont feel any shame or the pangs of guilty conscience when you read how your countries occupied the "colonies" but are bragging now about how your military will recover your lost colonies.

The Antilles are autonomous parts of the Kingdom. As Loup said, if they want to leave we grant them independence today! The fact we don't is the very feeling of guilt you think we don't have. We (in fact former generations of Dutch) have exploited the islands in the past, now we develop them. It only costs money. There is not a clear interest in keeping them.

Regarding the NATO, who will send their forces to help Holland.

Personally, I think that the first country to offer help would be Suriname. And also I believe it's the only country we NEED to offer us help. And then only the help of granting us the right to use their airfields. You think Holland is very weak, but we could for sure re-take a couple of islands from Venezuela. Sigh.

i think first the nato atlantic fleet and an us navy fleet would take over control of the waters, after that the islands will be recaptured while the rest of venezuela will get bombed.

I don't think you realize how much military force the Dutch actually have in the area, particularly Aruba.

Hmm, don't think too much of it. Venezuela could invade succesfully. The only question would be: how long does it take for Holland to re-take the Antilles? It will take much time to assemble a strong force and deploy it all the way over the Caribean.

France? Dont think that will make a damm difference at all, you know why.

As a French, sorry, I don't know why.

Really, should Venezuala invade Dutch island, I'm not sure if they would be able to sustain any real reaction from Netherlands.

But I don't think that the dutch couldn't find at least one ally.
France has many assets in the area for example and a military reaction would makes sense.

Where Mr Chavez would find ally ? Cuba ?
I think that it would be the last straw before a direct help from the USA, which isn't exactly a good news with you're the opposite side.

But i just like the self-righteous hypocrisy of the Europeans.

A bit off topic but show that you don't know much of the real situation in Antilles.
I lived 12 years in MArtinique if you ask mine own experience.

>> The EU would act. <<

I think you are correct. I suspect both France and the UK would be very eager for there to be a EU presedence on this.

I guess the first ally of the Netherlands in a potential invasion would be France if Chavez wants to invade St Martin island that is devided between France and NL. You got many french marines units in the Antilles and last but not least you get the L�gion in French Guyana (with lovely airports where Mirage 2000 could be based) and a permanent french SF units on rotation in the jungle warfare school.

I guess the first ally of the Netherlands in a potential invasion would be France if Chavez wants to invade St Martin island that is devided between France and NL.

St. Martin is part of the three northern Antilles. Chavez presumably aims for the three southern Antilles, which are close to the Venezuelan coast.

And about help, most of you forget about Suriname. A natural Dutch ally. I think they would be the first to offer help. Imagine what a couple of F-16 squadrons, taking of from Surinam airfields, could do to Chavez airforce.

In addition, logistic support from the UK would be nice. The Netherlands is powerful enough to deal with Venezuela, but it will be very hard to project power to that area quickly.

Quote: You should educate yourself on this subject beyond Argentinian propoganda.

My source is a kelper who decided to become an argentine citizen and support Argentina's claim.

The fact that you probably can't even read argentine sources and are limited to english only content does not make it propaganda.

---

2 Loup

Quote: Chris: This is a regional problem, so what help can the Antilles expect from other nations in South America and the Caribbean? Loup: Why would it be a regional problem? Although the Antilles are no longer considered a colony but a member of the kingdom, they still rely on their mother country with regards to defence, foreign policy and (some) judicial matters.

What I meant was that its not just a problem for the Antilles, and of course I would expect the Netherlands to assist the Antilles, but a problem for the whole region (South America and the Caribbean), so which local nations would be likely to offer support.

If Venezuela were to be successful in acquiring the Antilles, would not other islands be at risk, Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados and Grenada?

I think that France and Britain would assist the Netherlands in helping to protect the Antilles.

It would also be good if local nations provided assistance as well.

What I meant was that its not just a problem for the Antilles, and of course I would expect the Netherlands to assist the Antilles, but a problem for the whole region (South America and the Caribbean), so which local nations would be likely to offer support.

Ah, sorry, I see your point now.


If Venezuela were to be successful in acquiring the Antilles, would not other islands be at risk, Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados and Grenada?


I'm not sure; so far, Chavez has only made claims regarding the Antilles, and only regarding three islands: Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao.

2 Loup

Quote: Chris If Venezuela were to be successful in acquiring the Antilles, would not other islands be at risk, Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados and Grenada?

Quote: Loup I'm not sure; so far, Chavez has only made claims regarding the Antilles, and only regarding three islands: Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao. ?

Chavez is weak at home, so he finds a target outside to �unite� the country behind him to fight for national pride, and wins. So his standing at home is boosted, so if it beings to flag or if he just likes the taste of success, what is his next step, to identify another external target and repeat the process.

That is why I think that all nations in the region should be prepared to assist the Antilles in resisting any aggression from Chavez, including providing assistance to the Venezuelan people to remove him from his current position of power. The people deserve better, fairer leadership and governance.

If there was an invasion in the next few years, the UK would be hard pressed to provide frontline combat forces (maybe a small amphib battle group would be possible), but I think we would at least provide serious logistic support - namely RFAs and some amphibs (the Korps Mariniers would feel right at home!).

@Brazilpride
"It might not sound realistic now but Chavez is one of those populist leaders that when his ratings are very low he'll pull some stupid sh!t off like that. It would be identical to the falkland war conflict with a goverment low on popularity and conducting a populist move."


I most certainly agree with this. No one expected that Argentina would invade the Falklands, and with Chavez being a very unpredictable leader, I don't think it would be wise to rule a possible invasion of the Antilles out. If such a military conflict ever does arise, I don't doubt the Netherlands' ability to militarily recapture those islands. Even if the kingdom was incapable of reacquiring those islands, there is no question that the European Union as a whole would offer military assistance to the Dutch. Especially in an issue like this, it would hurt the EU diplomatically very seriously.


La Repubblica Ragusana - La quinta repubblica marittrima!
Italia triumphs again!

"When valour takes the field, short will the conflict be; Barbarian rage shall yield the palm to Italy. The vital spark remains, and Roman blood still warms Italians' veins."
- Petrarch

'Tensions between the Netherlands and Venezuela rise'

This was the title of an article in Elsevier magazine, dated on the 22nd of March.
Dutch foreign minister Ben Bot had a meeting scheduled in Venezuela, but Venezuela cancelled it, claiming he wasn't wanted there.

Also, Chavez has said that the Dutch, as 'colonial powers' should get the hell out of the region.

The defence minster, Henk Kamp, has said we wasn't concerned about Chavez' words, nor about the recent military purchases by the Venezuelan armed forces. He said in the interview that the armed forces were up to the task of defending the islands.

The full article (in Dutch):

http://www.elsevier.nl/nieuws/nederland/nieuwsbericht/asp/artnr/91784/index.html

I'd gladly give the useless Antilles to whoever might want them if they also accept to take the just as useless Antilleans living in the Netherlands.


What a parody, while the Netherlands is being irrevocably destroyed by mass immigration and "tolerance," the politicians will spend countless hours of passionate debate about this non-issue. The only thing that I consider positive about not living in holland is that my tax money does not go for the support of this ridiculous farce.

.

What a parody, while the Netherlands is being irrevocably destroyed by mass immigration and "tolerance,"

Mass integration? Tolerance? Destroyed? Damn, you must have been in Holland decades ago! Seriously, you've got a too much dark and inaccurate view on things going on here.

I find it odd that my northern neighbours are so confident in retaking the islands after a venezuelean invasion. Is Venezuela so weak because I can't possibly see the Netherlands as a strong nation that can fight against a nation x000km away and win. Not that the netherlands has a bad army, they have fine soldiers and fine equipment, but I don't see them supporting a naval task force for a long period of time.

What could the netherlands realisticly bring up there and what could Venezuela realistically bring to the islands?


Don't try this at home lads

A shortlist of the forces attending 'Joint Caribbean Lion'

- NLMARFOR battle staff
- HrMs Rotterdam (LPD), along with 24 Leopard 2A6 tanks, 40-50 APCs, Patriot SAMs, 600 troops, etc.
- 1 De Zeven Provinci�n-class ship
- 2 Karel Doorman-class ships
- 1 Walrus-class SSK
- 1 AOR
- 5 Lynx helicopters
- Several Cougar helicopters, possibly Apaches
- 1500 army troops
- Several F-16s, 1-2 KDC-10s and C-130s

Also troops from Canada, France, the US and most likely the UK will attend; the Belgians are sending 1 Wielingen-class ship. Total personnel involved would be around 4-5000.

Venezuela has stated it will send observers.

You think this might be a message?

Well what is avarilable to beat back the Southerners?

Dutch:
1 Karel Dorman Friagte
Some patrol craft
2 Patrol aircraft

British (in the area):
1 Frigate/Destroyer (North Atlantic)
1 Frigate/Destroyer (South Atlantic)
1 SSN (South Atlantic)
3 Tornado F3 (Falklands)
1 Refueling Tanker (Falklands)
500 Troops (Falklands)
1 Helicopter Flight (Belize)

Ascension Island
Cayman Islands
British Virgin Islands
Bermuda
Turk and Caicos Islands
Anguilla
Montserrat

The French should have forces nearby too, but I cant find any info on them!

>>>We've already had this discussion in the old "North and South American Forum" there's a very long thread about it. Malvinas flare-up?<<<

Yea, all the Brits vs Spider in thread after thread of Falklands scenario's was all that North and South American forum was really used for! lol

>>>The coloniser colonised.<<<

Britain first in the colonialism/imperialism list, and very much uninvaded with the exception of Jersey and Guernsey (they are very tiny British islands near France in the English channel). On the subject of islands being close to other countries, these are just a few miles from France, and probably close to 60 from Britain, do you see France storming the beaches?

>>>UK? Hard to say, but can they stretch their 100,000 strong military all over the Globe like that, when they already have the prospect of an Iranian invasion<<<

British government wants nothing to do with Iranian invasions and the like. Thats America/Israel's problem!

You can expect Royal Marines to be storming the beaches alongside the dutch, they even have an area of the Royal Navy website dedicated to the Dutch marines! http://www.royal-marines.mod.uk/static/pages/4986.html

>>>Frankly I don't find this a very convincing historical claim at all. It certainly doesn't remotely justify Argentina trying to claim the Falklands or invade it today.<<<

Qoute from Lee (DRKSTR) answers this point perfectly... "you want to start draging up teritorial disputes from the 1700's then no country in the world would be safe from the precident that it sets. No one is going to suport that it would like the Royal Navy sailing into New Your harbour and clameing Manhatten for the crown because it used to be British teritory." I love that quote

ddd

By the way, as far as what the Dutch could send in reaction to an attack, it includes the following major ship classes.

"De Zeven Provincien class command & air defense destroyers

Displacement: 6,044 tons full load
Dimensions: 144.2 x 17.2 x 5.2 meters (473 x 56.5 x 17 feet)
Propulsion: 2 shafts, 2 cruise diesels; 2 SM1A boost gas turbines,
28-30 knots
Crew: 202 (incl. flag)
Aviation: deck and hangar for 2 helicopters
Radar: SMART-L and APAR radars
Sonar: Atlas-Werke hull mounted
Armament: 32 vertical launch SM-2MR, 32 vertical launch ESSM (Sea
Sparrow), 8 Harpoon SSM, 1 5/54 DP, 2 30 mm Goalkeeper CIWS, 2 20 mm,
4 12.75 inch torpedo tubes
The second pair will not be equipped for command duties.
Officially classified as frigates, but by size and role they
are destroyers.

Number Name Year Notes
[F802 De Zeven Provincien 4/2002 trials]
[F803 Tromp 2003 building]
[F804 De Ruyter 2004 building]
[F805 Evertsen 2005 building]

Jacob Van Heemskerck ("L") class air defense frigates

Displacement: 3,750 tons full load
Dimensions: 130.2 x 14.4 x 4.23 meters (427 x 47 x 14 feet)
Propulsion: 2 shafts, 2 RM1C cruise gas turbines, 9,800 shp, 20 knots;
2 TM3B boost gas turbines, 51,600 shp, 30 knots
Crew: 197 (plus 20 flag)
Radar: LW-08 2-D air search, SMART-3D air/surface search
Sonar: SQS-509 hull mounted
Fire Control: 2 STIR-24 SM-1MR control, 1 STIR-18 Sea Sparrow control,
SEWACO II combat system
EW: Sphinx intercept, Ramses active jammer, 2 SRBOC, SLQ-25 Nixie
Armament: 1 Mk 13 missile launcher (40 SM-1MR), 8 Harpoon SSM, 1 8-cell
Sea Sparrow (24 missiles, manual reload), 1 30 mm Goalkeeper CIWS, 4 12.75
inch torpedo tubes
Standard (SM-1MR) missile version of the Kortenaer class, giving
up ASW helicopter facilites in favor of an area-defense missile.
Built to replace two Kortenaers sold to Greece prior to completion.

Number Name Year Notes
F 812 Jacob Van Heemskerck 1986
F 813 Witte De With 1986

Karel Doorman ("M") class frigates

Displacement: 3,320 tons full load
Dimensions: 122.25 x 14.37 x 6.05 meters (401 x 47 x 20 feet)
Propulsion: 2 shafts, 2 cruise diesels, 8,540 bhp, 21 knots;
2 SM1C boost gas turbines, 48,972 shp, 29 knots (F 827: SM1A, 37,540 shp)
Crew: 154
Aviation: aft helicopter deck and hangar; 1 Sea Lynx helicopter
Radar: SMART 3-D air search, LW-08 2-D air search
Sonar: PHS-36 hull, DSBV-61A towed
Fire Control: 2 STIR-18 missile control, SEWACO VII combat system
EW: APECS-II/AR-700 active/passive, 2 SRBOC,
SLQ-25 Nixie
Armament: 8 Harpoon SSM, 16 vertical launch Sea
Sparrow, 1 76 mm OTO DP, 1 30 mm Goalkeeper CIWS, 2 20 mm, 4 12.75 inch
torpedo tubes.
Originally intended as replacements for old corvettes, these ships
were built as general-duty frigates, with a peacetime patrol role.
The systems fitted in later units will be backfitted to the others.

Number Name Year Notes
F 827 Karel Doorman 1991
F 828 Van Speijk 1995
F 829 Willem Van Der Zaan 1991
F 830 Tjerk Hiddes 1992
F 831 Van Amstel 1993
F 832 Abraham Van Der Hulst 1993
F 833 Van Nes 1994
F 834 Van Galen 1994

Walrus class submarines

Displacement: 2,800 tons submerged
Dimensions: 67.73 x 8.4 x 7 meters (222.2 x 27.5 x 23 feet)
Propulsion: 3 diesels, diesel-electric, 5,430 shp, 1 shaft, 21 knots
Crew: 50
Sonar: TSM 2272 active/passve, Type 2026 linear array
Fire Control: SEWACO VII combat system
Armament: 4 21 inch torpedo tubes (20 Mk 48 or NT-37 torpedoes,
mines, Harpoon SSM)
A further two boats, possibly of a much-modified design, were cancelled.
These boats will be given a midlife overhaul starting circa 2009.

Number Name Year Notes
S 802 Walrus 1992
S 803 Zeeleeuw 1990
S 808 Dolfijn 1993
S 810 Bruinvis 1994

Rotterdam amphibious transport dock

Displacement: 12,000 tons full load
Dimensions: 160 x 25 x 5.9 meters (523 x 82 x 19.5 feet)
Propulsion: Diesel-electic, 4 diesels, 2 shafts, 16,628 shp, 20 knots
Crew: 113-127
Aviation: aft helicopter deck with hangar; 4 EH-101 or 6 NH-90 helicopters
Well Deck: 4 LCU or 6 LCVP
Troops: 600
Cargo: 170 armored personnel carriers or 30 tanks
Radar: DA-08 air/surface search
Armament: 2 30 mm Goalkeeper CIWS, 4 20 mm
LPD-type ship designed in cooperation with Spain.

Number Name Year Notes
L 800 Rotterdam 1998"
http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/
(Go to Europe and the Netherlands to see the list for yourself.

The Dutch has a rather capable navy all things considered, and those 4 De Zeven Provincien class ships with VLS launched SM-2 Missiles give them some real anti-aircraft capabilities.

Quote: A shortlist of the forces attending 'Joint Caribbean Lion' Also troops from Canada, France, the US and most likely the UK will attend; the Belgians are sending 1 Wielingen-class ship. Total personnel involved would be around 4-5000. Venezuela has stated it will send observers. You think this might be a message?

Yet bet it is!

Lets hope that it is received, understood and deters aggressive action against the Antilles.

However I would like to see South American countries participating and sending a common �American� message (i.e. both NA & SA) that such behaviour is unacceptable.

"Mass integration? Tolerance? Destroyed? Damn, you must have been in Holland decades ago! Seriously, you've got a too much dark and inaccurate view on things going on here."

No, of course not, I used the wrong word: the Netherlands isn't being "destroyed" by mass immigration, it is being "enriched," isn't that right? We are one of Europe's leaders when it comes to this issue, seeing as more than 50% of children under 15 in the four largest Dutch cities are now Muslim. But I bet this does not perturb you, what with you being so enlightened and tolerant, and Islam being so peaceful and non-invasive, lol. No, the demography is irrelevant, the real problem is that pesky issue of the Antilles.


.

"I don't think you realize how much military force the Dutch actually have in the area, particularly Aruba. You have an entire Marine battallion based on the island, these are well trained and equipped troops that can oppose any landing. The islands also feature ships that are ordinarily used for antidrug patrols. However, my understand is these are Karel Doorman frigates with 8 Harpoon anti-ship missiles each as well as 16 Sea Sparrow Missiles for SAM duties. These ships can do ugly things to invasion craft if not elminated first. Basically even with complete surprise, Venezuella is going to have some problems taking the islands."

I'm well aware of dutch presence in the area, however they have quality but in small numbers, with overall quantity Venezuela can releatively easily take these islands. Dutch or european troops in the carribean won't have the capabilities to counterattack right after such an invasion. But I do feel that a retake of the Antilles would be easier than the mission in the Falklands.




"Brazil has rediscovered itself, and this rediscovery is being expressed in its people's enthusiasm and their desire to mobilize to face the huge problems that lie ahead of us."
Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva

No, of course not, I used the wrong word: the Netherlands isn't being "destroyed" by mass immigration, it is being "enriched," isn't that right?

Again, there's no mass immigration to begin with. Second, not all non-Dutch are muslims. Third, Dutch policy towards immigration and foreigners isn't exceptionally tolerant. That's a myth and it's a shame you believe in it. Fourth, unlike you, I'm not afraid of muslims. I'm afraid of extremists in general, disregarding what they preach. And I don't believe the majority of muslims in the Netherlands is extremistic.

No, the demography is irrelevant, the real problem is that pesky issue of the Antilles.

Interesting, while you complain so much about how the Dutch are losing their culture and identity, you don't mind losing parts of our territory?

No force required, Venezuela will soon see the error once the EU slaps a big fat npo trade notice on all its exports and imports, then have the USA do the same.

ddd

Here are a couple of pieces from some Venezuelan media sites:

Dutch Defense Minister's remarks on Venezuela raises concern in Curacao and Caracas
According to Venezuelan tabloid, Notitarde, the Dutch Defense Minister has joined the USA in launching an attack on Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Frias.
Minister Henk Kamp has dismissed the Venezuelan President as an "intolerant populist."
Addressing the Dutch Parliament, Minister Kamp brushes aside suggestions that the Dutch Antilles and Aruba (Caribbean) are under threat from a Venezuelan invasion.
Replying to questions from the House regarding the Venezuelan government's foreign policy in the Caribbean Basin, Kamp maintains that Chavez Frias is an intolerant populist with a lot of money and who is showing interest in Dutch islands off the Venezuelan coast.
However, the Minister assures Parliament that Venezuelan military action against the islands is definitely ruled out, arguing that the Venezuela (Armada) Navy has only a second-hand destroyer and its Navy could not to stand up to the Dutch Navy.
The US Southern Command has a forward operations location (FOL) in the Dutch Antilles as part of its narcotics control strategy.
� The Dutch Navy has undertaken joint coastguard exercises with the Armada in recent years.
According to Curacao newspaper Amigoe, the Venezuelan Consul General in Curacao, Zulay Prieto de Rodriguez has reacted quickly to Kamp's declaration, accusing the Minster of lining up with an international campaign to discredit the Venezuelan government.
It shows, the Consul contends, that the Defense Minister has little respect for the Venezuelan People and its President.
The Curacao authorities are said to have expressed concern and will ask the Minister to explain his statement.
A spokesperson says that the Dutch should not forget that Curacao and other Antilles islands are Venezuela's neighbors and maintain good relations.



11.03.06 | Last week�s saber rattling by Hugo Chavez, a blunt threat to remove the Dutch from the Netherlands Antilles islands of Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao, clearly demonstrates the existence of a misguided national policy that can only result in an armed conflict in the Caribbean. The fabricated territorial and maritime claims against the Netherlands by the current Venezuelan government are certainly a recipe for disaster. But by also seeking to expel what he refers to as the other �colonial powers� of France, the United Kingdom and the United States from their possessions in the Western Hemisphere, he risks armed confrontation with the NATO countries.
We should not be surprised, as Chavez has always viewed the NATO military installations as threats to Venezuela. While he knows he could no more win a conventional war against any European country than Argentina could prevail over the UK in the Falklands (Malvinas), offensive weapons, such as missiles obtained from North Korea and Iran, when coupled with small, albeit effective, tactical nuclear devices, could result in permanent ecological damages to the Caribbean. There would be no winner of such a conflict.
When documentary and photographic evidence of the presence of ballistic missiles inside Venezuela, and of Chavez� serious efforts to develop or buy nuclear weapons, emerges, those who doubt the validity of such serious allegations will ruefully have to admit to the existence of a clear and present danger to peace. Those who scoff at the truth of this information, and seek to draw a parallel to the bogus claims of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq by President Bush, miss the point. Chavez must divert attention from Venezuela�s failing economy, and its corrupt Bolivarian elite, who are stealing the country blind. He must do something, or fall from power, either through the electoral process, or a popular uprising.
Dictators in political trouble frequently have enmeshed their nations in foreign military adventures to distract the people from domestic problems. The worry is that Chavez and Castro will amass sufficient weaponry to actually initiate military action in 2006. This is not idle speculation; both regimes have been actively acquiring military technology of late. One also must bear in mind the alliance of the Chavez regime with radical, fanatical terrorist organisations who could assist in this madness.
Factor in the recent rantings of Cuban dictator Fidel Castro Ruz, and the consensus of veteran Cuban watchers that Castro wants to leave his mark on the region for posterity, and we have the potential for an unthinkable war, Cuba and Venezuela, with covert logistical support from Iran, North Korea and possibly Syria, against one or more of the �imperialist powers.�
With Chavez losing his grip on Venezuela, he may follow his patron, Fidel, down the road to ruin for his country. We cannot let that happen; the truth about offensive weapons inside Venezuela must be told in a clear and convincing manner. Only then can the folly of military misadventure be avoided.
More than a hundred years ago, Chile, Peru and Bolivia fought the War of the Pacific, and bruised feelings from the war still remain in those countries. Do we really want to see a catastrophic conflict brought solely for the purposes of keeping the Chavez regime in power? The outcome would be a nightmare.

Nothing is going to happen, Chavez is firmly in power in Venezuela, in fact he's really popular and its economy is booming. He doesn't need any invasion to stay in power, at least for now.

---

Thanks Loup.

The first article is interesting. Highly propagandistic.

The second article is from an anti-Chavez website.

the personal endeavour of someone whose discontentment towards the politicians of his country (Venezuela) reached such unbearable levels, that he decided to take action and provide a counterbalance to the official multimillion dollar propagandistic effort rolled out by the current administration.
http://vcrisis.com/index.php?content=about_vcrisis

Yes, I read the article but I couldn't find a direct link, thanks

Btw, I also found this and it's too good to resist

Quote: UPDATE:Venezuela Chavez Denies Dutch Islands Invasion Plan (Updates with Monday comments by Chavez) CARACAS (AP)--Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez called the Dutch defense minister a "pawn of Washington" and accused the U.S. government of spreading false rumors that he is considering invading nearby Dutch Caribbean islands. Chavez said Sunday that recent comments by Dutch Defense Minister Henk Kamp appear to be part of a U.S.-organized smear campaign. "It's part of a little campaign, an orchestrated campaign, so that Europe starts shaping the idea that there is a tyrant here making plans for invasions of neighboring countries," Chavez said. "This is part of a worldwide campaign by the United States against us." During a parliament debate in the Netherlands last month, Kamp said Chavez was looking "with big eyes at the couple scraps" close to his shores that are part of the Dutch Kingdom. He reassured the legislators that Venezuela's coast guard was no match for the three ships that the Dutch navy keeps in the region. "This could be perceived as if Chavez has his eyes on the Antilles to conquer them," Chavez said. Chavez took the issue up again on Monday after a demonstration by pilots flying new military helicopters, calling Kamp "a truly ridiculous man" and saying the defense minister's comments "form part of the empire's plan." Kamp also said, however, that there was no immediate military threat and that the Netherlands wanted good relations with Venezuela. Chavez said he believed Kamp was being manipulated by the U.S. "He's without a doubt being a pawn of Washington," Chavez said in his weekly television program. The Venezuelan leader has previously suggested the Dutch islands immediately off Venezuela's coast could be used as a launching pad for a U.S. invasion. The islands of Curacao, Bonaire and Aruba are roughly 50 kilometers north of Venezuela's coast, while other Dutch Caribbean territories St. Maarten, Saba and St. Eustatius are located farther north. The islands, most of which are administered as part of the Netherlands Antilles, fall under Dutch military protection. Dutch Foreign Minister Ben Bot was quoted as saying in Argentina last week: "There is nothing to indicate any hostile intentions on the part of Venezuela toward the Dutch Kingdom." Chavez, a close ally of Cuban leader Fidel Castro, constantly accuses Washington of conspiring against his leftist government. U.S. officials deny it, while accusing Chavez of becoming a destabilizing force in Latin America. In September, Chavez described as a "lie" the official U.S. explanation that U.S. troops visited Curacao for rest and recreation last year. He said U.S. troops were practicing invasion scenarios for Venezuela involving aircraft carriers and planes. U.S. ships are planning exercises in the region again during the next two months. The Miami-based U.S. Southern Command says the USS George Washington aircraft carrier - along with a destroyer, cruiser, frigate and a 60-plane air wing - will conduct military exercises from early April to late May with other Caribbean countries to enhance maritime security. William Brownfield, the U.S. ambassador to Venezuela, last week played down the deployment, calling it a regular naval exercise.

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