New Delhi, April 30 : A recently inducted advanced jet trainer Hawk crashed near the Bidar air base in Karnataka, an Indian Air Force spokesperson said here Wednesday, adding that both pilots were safe.
Re: Indian newly acquired AJT from Britain first hit the ground.....
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May 1 2008, 8:47 PM
Seems even the RAF has been having problems with their HAWKs in recent times
Quote:
The RAF is coming under pressure to reveal the accident rate of its Hawk trainer aircraft after a second machine crashed near a north Wales airbase in six months.
The plane, which is worth £5m-7m, came down in a field just yards from a farmhouse on Anglesey, whose occupants are on holiday in Australia, after the pilot ejected within 20 seconds of take-off.
Quote:
The RAF has denied the Hawk has an accident rate which is higher than other aircraft in service.
But the Celtic League, a lobby group for Celtic culture which monitors the impact of military activity in Wales, said the RAF "should come clean about the alarming attrition rate of this troubled aircraft".
Quote:
Celtic League General Secretary, Bernard Moffat, said: "It is the latest in a series of accidents, some involving serious injury or fatalities involving the type, whilst in RAF service.
"The Celtic League have monitored its chequered history over the years. This indicates a disturbing accident pattern.
"The attrition rate for the aircraft has seen approximately 20% of the 180 procured by the RAF lost in accidents and many incidents have occurred during take off and landings indicating instability and power problems.
Quote:
"Difficulties with a much modified version adopted by the United States Navy (The T-45) support this scenario.
"The introduction of the US version was delayed following an accident whilst power and stability problems were addressed.
"It is past time the RAF came clean about the problems associated with the aircraft.
Re: Indian newly acquired AJT from Britain first hit the ground.....
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May 1 2008, 8:50 PM
Another Reports say that the Crash happened due to an Aborted Take-Off (Equipment Malfunction). There was no bird hit as previously speculated
Quote:
Hawk air force jet crashes in India
An Indian air force Hawk trainer jet crashed during take-off in the first accident involving the British-built plane here, but the pilot escaped unharmed, officials said Wednesday.
The two-seater jet slammed into a wall while taking offlate Tuesday from an airbase in southern India, airforce officials said.
"The pilot escaped unhurt," said an official who did not want to be named, adding the extent of damage to the 22-million-dollar plane was not yet known.
Quote:
New Delhi, April 30: One of the Indian Air Force's just acquired Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer was damaged as the pilot had to abort the take off for a training mission at Bidar airport in Karnataka.
The pilot, sensing some technical hitch, aborted the take off yesterday leading to the aircraft hitting a side wall, according to Air Force officials here.
The pilot escaped without any injury but the extent of damage to the aircraft was not immediately known.
www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=440090&sid=NAT
AF Officials say new Planes have OLD Parts
NEW DELHI, APRIL 30: India’s newly acquired fleet of Hawk fighter trainers has been grounded for a second time after one of them crashed at the Bidar airbase on Tuesday afternoon while taking off on a training mission. Both pilots escaped unharmed.
While the entire fleet has been facing problems since the induction in February due to lack of spares, the grounding comes weeks after the IAF discovered that the new aircraft contained parts that were rusted and appeared to be old and used.
This came as a surprise as the trainers — 66 were bought in a Rs 8,000-crore deal inked in 2004 — are new and were inducted barely three months ago. In fact, only 10 aircraft have arrived until now from the assembly line in UK.
After Air Hqs informed the Ministry of Defence about the matter, the Defence Secretary has been asked to head for London on May 19 to raise the issue with top UK government officials.
As first reported by The Indian Express on March 23, the fleet had earlier been grounded, shortly after the aircraft arrived in January, due to lack of spares and technical problems.
Sources at Air Hqs said that the British High Commissioner has also been contacted and an official communication has been sent to the original manufacturers, the UK-based BAE Systems.
It is learnt that the problem with the Hawks pertains to certain parts like the undercarriage and the pitot-static tube —it gives the pilots feedback on airspeed and altitude — that IAF technical teams discovered were rusted.
The fleet will now remain grounded until the reason behind Tuesday’s crash is investigated. The IAF’s training schedule is likely to get affected as the first course on the new trainers was set to begin at Bidar in July.
While a court of inquiry has been ordered into the crash and human error is not ruled out, IAF sources say that initial investigation points to a fault either in the undercarriage or the yaw controllers that are used to stabilise the aircraft. The IAF says that both pilots were experienced instructors with several hundred hours of combat flying in their logbooks.
Officials from BAE Systems, who concede that there are “small issues” regarding the Hawk, say that it would not be correct to link the accident to the matter.
“A number of small issues have arisen with the Hawks that have been delivered and are in service with the Indian Air Force. We take resolution of these issues very seriously and are working closely with the IAF to resolve these, to both their and our satisfaction,” said a BAE spokesperson.
But IAF says that ever since their induction, the trainers have enjoyed a low serviceability rate of 40 per cent. This means that the aircraft spend most of the time on the ground rather than on training missions and at any given time, only 4 out of the ten trainers are fit for flying.
“The Hawks are not flying around much as they have a low serviceability rate. We would like an ideal serviceability rate of 80 per cent which would be normal for any newly acquired aircraft,” said a senior IAF officer.
A major embarrassment was averted at the induction ceremony in February, which was presided over by Defence Minister A K Antony, after the IAF “barely managed” to get four trainers off the ground for the traditional fly past.
The British made trainers are meant to fill a vital gap in India’s fighter pilot training programme by replacing the MiG-21s that are currently being used to impart final stage training to fighter pilots. The Hawks were procured in 2004, more than two decades after the IAF asked for an advanced jet trainer to curb pilot losses during training.
Re: Indian newly acquired AJT from Britain first hit the ground.....
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May 1 2008, 8:52 PM
There was one RAF pilot and one InAF pilot in the Plane at the time of Accident
New Delhi, April 30 (IANS) All 10 Advanced Jet Trainers Hawk delivered by Britain have been grounded after one of them skidded off the runway while taking off in Karnataka, Indian Air Force (IAF) sources said Wednesday. Both its Indian and British pilots are safe. The accident occurred at 12.40 p.m. Tuesday at the Flying Training Establishment at Bidar, IAF spokesman Wing Commander Mahesh Upasini said. “The (plane was on) a training mission. An inquiry has been ordered into the reasons behind the accident.”
Re: Indian newly acquired AJT from Britain first hit the ground.....
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May 1 2008, 9:09 PM
>>>The Hawk is one of the mostly used training aircrafts in the world. I'm sure that if the design is flawed, it would have come out already.<<<
The Issue here is not Design Flaw.. Its more to do with Shortage of Spare Parts (Goes for the RAF as well).. Old Second Hand Spare parts are being Certified and re-used on New Airframes causing problems..
R.K. Laxman, India's renowned cartoonist, honours the hardy & humble Indian Jawan
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Re: Indian newly acquired AJT from Britain first hit the ground.....
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May 1 2008, 10:01 PM
"But IAF says that ever since their induction, the trainers have enjoyed a low serviceability rate of 40 per cent. This means that the aircraft spend most of the time on the ground rather than on training missions and at any given time, only 4 out of the ten trainers are fit for flying. "
It's a trainer ffs ! How hard can it be.
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Re: Indian newly acquired AJT from Britain first hit the ground.....
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May 1 2008, 10:07 PM
The quality of the aircraft is beyond any doubt, it has sold over 900 aircraft to more than 20 customers. Not sure what spares policy the IAF has. By the way that article regarding this Celtic League nonsense is 6 years old.
Quote:
The Hawk is one of the mostly used training aircrafts in the world. I'm sure that if the design is flawed, it would have come out already.
BTW, look at the attrition rates (50% iirc) of the Harrier. Now, that's bad!
Do you have a source for your Harrier comment?
Europe's first true UCAV
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Re: Indian newly acquired AJT from Britain first hit the ground.....
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May 2 2008, 1:52 AM
^6Apperently you are a little thick, sorry a i take that back.
You are very thick in the head, the instructor was a RAF Pilot.
But again what do you expect from an illiterate madrassa educated bafoon
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Re: Indian newly acquired AJT from Britain first hit the ground.....
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May 2 2008, 10:38 AM
That means the Instructor was a RAF Pilot, interesting.
I doubt it, the RAF doesn't have enough pilots to let India borrow one. Might be an ex-RAF BAE pilot though. Then again, the RAF does have the best pilots in the world
"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."
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Re: Indian newly acquired AJT from Britain first hit the ground.....
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May 2 2008, 6:52 PM
>>>>I doubt it, the RAF doesn't have enough pilots to let India borrow one. Might be an ex-RAF BAE pilot though. Then again, the RAF does have the best pilots in the world<<<
Probably right. All Indian reports have stated that the Pilot was British. NOT RAF. i kinda made the leap there..my mistake.
R.K. Laxman, India's renowned cartoonist, honours the hardy & humble Indian Jawan
AKA KRONICFEVER
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Quote ThebetterRob:
"The quality of the aircraft is beyond any doubt, it has sold over 900 aircraft to more than 20 customers".
What is beyhond any DOUBTS is the ability of BAe to sell CRAP quility and it's WHY they're in charge of selling Typhoon.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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Quiet good at pyrotechnic and sexy display they are...
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May 2 2008, 10:24 PM
"Then again, the RAF does have the best pilots in the world".
Then it must be their gear which is crap because every single time we fight along each other the Brits are BEHIND by a FAIR margin...
Behind with the rest of them that is...
No i didn't forget them, it's an airshow display mate!!!
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 2, 2008 10:31 PM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 2, 2008 10:29 PM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 2, 2008 10:27 PM
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Re: Indian newly acquired AJT from Britain first hit the ground.....
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May 3 2008, 2:50 AM
What is beyhond any DOUBTS is the ability of BAe to sell CRAP quility and it's WHY they're in charge of selling Typhoon.
So crap in fact that the Indians and many other countries (including ours) buy them repeatedly
Then it must be their gear which is crap because every single time we fight along each other the Brits are BEHIND by a FAIR margin...
Sure Thunder, that's why we have 1 Harrier which can carry 2 x 1000lb bombs, 2 x drop tanks and 1 Designator in Afghanistan, but you need 1 SEM to carry a 500lb bomb and 1 to carry a designator. By my calcs that means 1 Harrier equals 4 SEM's with 500lb bombs and a 5th SEM with a designator. Inferior gear, look at home first buddy.
"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."
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Re: Indian newly acquired AJT from Britain first hit the ground.....
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May 3 2008, 7:33 AM
As for this "inferior" British AJT, let's compare it's success with that of the German-French AlphaJet.
Hawk sales: Over 900 aircraft and still in production --> about 700 exports
AlphaJet sales: 502 aircraft and production ceased in the early 1990s --> 151 exports
With the Indians close to buying another 57, the USN in discussions about another 180 and several other countries interested in the Hawk, it will in my opinion reach 1200 with ease, perhaps even 1500.
Europe's first true UCAV
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The ONLY reason you Brits sell more is because you're FAR more corrupted.
Now if i were you i'd stop making a total FOOL of yourself by pretending that selling is a quality label; EXPECIALLY IN A TOPIC RELATED TO THE I-AF as these guys must have a vivid memory of the sub-standard crapy Jaguars they received from you for GOOD money..
IN FACT can you REMIND us of ANY single major BAe programe which didn't HIT technical problems recently???
Let's SEE. Ho i forgot you keep your head firmly up your crack so that YOU dont have to witness the REALITY of your poor technical performances as your signature says too well...
So mate keep your mine's selling bullsh!ts we dont CARE about sales what we care about is OUR pilots taking off, coming BACK mission acomplished with the highest NATO kill ratio and all of this without worrying about how they're going to end-up once the aircraft has stoped down the runway if coming back at all...
HERE IS WHY...
SO AGAIN TROLL:
WE DONT GIVE A DAMNED DONKEY ABOUT BIG FIGURES, MUCH MANURE DOESN'T MAKE CAVIAR...
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 3, 2008 11:01 AM
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We're wainting for YOU to substantiate your fat-mouthed claims as usual!!!
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May 3 2008, 11:04 AM
For the time being it's BAE which have their @ss in a sling just in case you cant read ENGLISH, as for their record you might still REFUSE to aknowledge FACTS, but they are CRAP at designing virtualy everything they touch and this FACT is also well documented.
Now FCUK-OFF will ya?
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 3, 2008 11:05 AM
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AGAIN: I'm NOT one of yours i DONT live in a permanent state of DENIAL INVENTING myself capabilities, budgets etc like YOU i don't give a toss about Rafale selling or not, and i couldn't CARE less about your trolling/flaming unsubstantiated crap.
You're the one investigated for bribdery not us.
That's the truth boy! Ho, another one TARANIS is an UAV.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 3, 2008 11:18 AM
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