BAE Systems, the arms giant accused of making corrupt payments worldwide to win lucrative contracts, has admitted it acted unethically in the past.
The admissions were made by BAE executives to Lord Woolf, the former lord chief justice, who was hired by the company to review its conduct. BAE promised to improve its behaviour when seeking to win future contracts.
Britain's biggest defence company had been forced to hire Woolf last summer after it suffered bad publicity over corruption allegations. There had been an outcry after Tony Blair's government halted a Serious Fraud Office investigation into allegations of huge bribes in a Saudi arms deal. That deal is being investigated by the US Department of Justice and is the subject of a House of Lords appeal.
BAE is also being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office over claims it paid bribes to secure contracts in a number of other countries, including Tanzania and the Czech Republic.
Woolf published his report yesterday, in which he said the allegations had directly damaged BAE's reputation, and had "cast a shadow of suspicion and doubt" over the company.
He added that BAE was "overly secretive, defensive, unwilling to explain its actions and, at best, lukewarm to the challenge of dealing with the major reputational issues affecting the company and industry".
He said that during his review Mike Turner, BAE's outgoing chief executive, and Dick Olver, the company's chairman, had conceded BAE "did not in the past pay sufficient attention to ethical standards and avoid activities that had the potential to give rise to reputational damage".
Woolf set out 23 recommendations, which he said formed a "road-map" for BAE to "ensure higher standards of ethical business conduct".
In response, Turner said: "We will carefully study the report's contents to understand the detail of its conclusions and remain committed to acting on all its recommendations", while Olver said Woolf's report was "an important step towards BAE's objective of achieving benchmark standards of governance in the conduct of its day-to-day business".
However, Woolf has been accused of producing a "whitewash" for a company desperate to improve its public image - a claim he rejected yesterday. When he agreed to do the job, he accepted BAE's terms that he would not investigate the details of allegedly corrupt deals of the past, nor BAE's system of making secret payments to middlemen through offshore accounts.
Woolf said: "If they were looking for somebody to go and look through these old allegations, I wasn't the person for the job. I'm not a policeman, I have not got the skills to fill that. And what I was interested in was helping BAE ... to set standards in global companies which meet the highest ethical standards, because that's important for the reputation of this company."
He gave a clean bill of health to the "Salam project", BAE's latest multibillion-pound deal to sell Typhoon combat aircraft to the Saudis, as he deemed it to be current. Woolf said "security obligations" prevented access to some relevant documentation on the contract but, on the basis of the information given by BAE, the contract "should not in itself create any risks of unethical conduct by the company".
BAE had told Woolf it had not employed any middlemen to land the contract.
In all, BAE paid £1.7m for the report, which included payments to Woolf and three committee members and various administration costs. Woolf's recommendations, which were criticised for being light on detail, include the creation of a more proactive ethics board, the nomination of an executive to champion ethics, and greater monitoring of gifts and hospitality.
He suggested the appointment of middlemen - who are frequently used to funnel bribes to foreign politicians and officials - should be subjected to greater scrutiny, so that there are "demonstrably no risks of actual or apparent corruption of any kind".
Woolf also urged ministers to bring into force much tougher legislation to outlaw bribery, as Britain has been repeatedly criticised for failing to prosecute any company for making corrupt payments overseas. http://www.modoracle.com/news/detail.html?id=15646
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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Is BAE the only firm to run into trouble for alleged bribery?
Far from it.
The FCPA was partly triggered by the outcry following huge kickbacks paid to former Japanese Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka in the early 1970s by US arms firm Lockheed.
In the 1980s, French arms firm Dassault was alleged to have bribed Belgian officials to win a big contract.
Dassault denied bribery - but in leaping to the firm's defence, a French minister protested that commissions were a "normal part" of arms deals.
And much more recently, a former chief financial officer of aerospace giant Boeing admitted that he had helped a senior procurement official from the US Air Force land a job with the firm after she steered several big contracts Boeing's way.
Boeing was banned from Air Force contracts for five years as a result.
Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 7 2008, 11:14 AM
Thunder
Man you have a serious hang up with BAE.
The Tornado and the Typhoon have sold (whatever happened during the deals) because they are both great aircraft.
If bribery (such an emotive word and an understood way of doing business in the ME) took place then it was to decide between several great products not to replace great products with bad products.
Get over it and move on, preferably all the way to posting things about other subjects.
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 7 2008, 11:22 AM
Bribery/Corruption is very common in the lesser developed countries in the world. As a matter of fact, that is the only way to do business in some countries. An example; you would need to tie up with a local firm to offer your product to the purchasing government. Inevitably, you would need to raise the overall price because your local partner wants in on the profits too.
What can you do? You cannot ask the purchasing government to clean thier act. They will give you the equivalent of the middle finger. So, you will just have to play thier game. Nothing wrong with that. Your internal processes(within your company) is still clean though your hands might get dirty. But hey, what is so moral about selling arms anyway in the first place?
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 7 2008, 1:02 PM
<<Thunder
Man you have a serious hang up with BAE.>>
He can’t cope with the fact that Dassault has been reduced to a regional,insignificant manufacturer of fighter aircraft since the launch of this ill-fated Rafale ..
Producing only 1,5 Rafale per month even less than Saab in Sweden.. What a tragic end ?? once a big player to reckon with in niche markets between USA and USSR it is gradually sinking into obscurity..
<<yep. this guy has psychological problem. he should really go do a therapy.>>
Senile dementia is incurable in his age
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 7 2008, 1:57 PM
When it comes to arms deals, be it in developed or developing countries, "bribery" is always part of the equation. If officials can't be bought directly, the government will be offered other lucrative deals. Another important factor is blackmail.
It's good to be the king.
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 7 2008, 3:19 PM
He gave a clean bill of health to the "Salam project",
So what does this have to do with Eurofighter? Nowhere can I see where Woolf says anything about specific corruption in its attempts to sell its products. Out of interest have you read the Woolf report?
With this and your new title that has little to do with the topic wouldn’t this thread come under your own criteria for **** digging and trolling? I see the double standards haven’t been relaxed.
Like the British can't READ the British press no more.
GET A LIFE!!!
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 7 2008, 4:35 PM
That makes no sense. Seriously how is you making up your own title different to Rob doing the same?
On topic; this article has nothing to do with bribes or other shady dealings; it's more to do with public relations. The Woolf report was never meant investigate any of these allegations of bribery; it was meant to advise BAE on its ethical policies and processes.
It's BAe who are under investigation in the UK for the SAUDI bribdery issue.
No one else and this has little to do with RobL(iar) SH!T DIGGIN habbit.
HYPOCRTI!!! RM-Nod
"On topic; this article has nothing to do with bribes or other shady dealings"
BAE Systems, the arms giant accused of making corrupt payments worldwide to win lucrative contracts, has admitted it acted unethically in the past.
There had been an outcry after Tony Blair's government halted a Serious Fraud Office investigation into allegations of huge bribes in a Saudi arms deal.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 8, 2008 6:50 AM
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 8 2008, 5:30 PM
A life? You mean like hanging around this forum all day while looking for negative articles about the UK and mentally masturbating over pictures of the Rafale?
Now regardless of whether BAE is under investigation or not this article has nothing to do with proving this or any other investigation, and the admission of acting unethically is also not to do with this. You would know this if you read the article and more importantly the actual Woolf report.
As is said in the article;
“When he agreed to do the job, he accepted BAE's terms that he would not investigate the details of allegedly corrupt deals of the past”
So your inference that this shows that BAE has made its sales of Typhoons and Tornadoes through shady activities is incorrect. And yes it is hypocritical to go ape**** over someone using the name “Thales UK” in a thread title while doing adding your own spin to your own thread titles.
Quote:A life? You mean like hanging around this forum all day while looking for negative articles about the UK and mentally masturbating over pictures of the Rafale?
COMING FROM A TROLL WHO SPENT YEARS EXAGERATING EVERYTHING HE WROTE ABOUT HIS COUNTRY'S FORCES, BUDGET, CAPABILTIES AND EQUIPEMENT IT'S A LITTLE RICH TO SAY THE LEAST.
NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT LIKE MOST OF YOUR GROUP, SINCE nEUROn'S LAUNCH YOU CAN'T EVEN READ PROPER ENGLISH ANYMORE LIKE THE WORDS EMULATING AND NOT INTENDED TO DROP WEAPONS. BOZZOS!!!
Quote:Now regardless of whether BAE is under investigation or not this article has nothing to do with proving this or any other investigation, and the admission of acting unethically is also not to do with this. You would know this if you read the article and more importantly the actual Woolf report.
BLAH-DI-BLAH YOUR HEAD AS DEEP UP YOUR CRACK AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN.
WE'RE USED TO SEE YOU THAT WAY NO SURPRISE THERE...
Quote:“When he agreed to do the job, he accepted BAE's terms that he would not investigate the details of allegedly corrupt deals of the past”
BRITISH MANURE SMELLS OF ROSE.
Quote:So your inference that this shows that BAE has made its sales of Typhoons and Tornadoes through shady activities is incorrect. And yes it is hypocritical to go ape**** over someone using the name “Thales UK” in a thread title while doing adding your own spin to your own thread titles.
NOT MY INTERFERENCE:
REALITY STRIKER FOR YOU TROLL!!!
TEXT
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 8, 2008 9:49 PM
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 8 2008, 7:58 PM
All caps eh? You must really be backed into a corner.
As I said Woolf was not tasked with determining whether or not there were any shady dealings involved with the sale of either the Typhoon or Tornado aircraft; as the quote I provided from the article demonstrates (what does it have to do with manure by the way?). Therefore your inference (NOT INTERFERENCE, please do read more carefully) that this article somehow proves that there were is incorrect.
You are fundamentally misunderstanding the purpose of the Woolf report and what it said.
However if you were not suggesting that this article was significant evidence or even proof of illegal activity in BAE’s aircraft deals then I apologise but I must ask what exactly you meant by “Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????”
You're the one who have left all these evidences of your STUPIDITY in this forum NOT me.
It's there for everyone to SEE!!!
Now FCUK-OFF Rm-Nod you humiliated yourself enough for the rest of the year.
"He added that BAE was "overly secretive, defensive, unwilling to explain its actions and, at best, lukewarm to the challenge of dealing with the major reputational issues affecting the company and industry".
LOL...
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 8, 2008 9:50 PM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 8, 2008 9:39 PM
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 8 2008, 11:17 PM
Quote:However if you were not suggesting that this article was significant evidence or even proof of illegal activity in BAE’s aircraft deals then I apologise but I must ask what exactly you meant by “Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????”
When I read :
==
He added that BAE was "overly secretive, defensive, unwilling to explain its actions and, at best, lukewarm to the challenge of dealing with the major reputational issues affecting the company and industry".
==
I get the feeling that though Woolf isn't there to prove anything, he still needed to report publicly on the lack of will of BAe to talk about the good old time.
Two hypothesis :
1) BAe is guilty, and they hired Woolf just to improve their reputation, while not getting compromised :
Quote:Britain's biggest defence company had been forced to hire Woolf last summer after it suffered bad publicity over corruption allegations.
Quote:Woolf set out 23 recommendations, which he said formed a "road-map" for BAE to "ensure higher standards of ethical business conduct".
Quote:When he agreed to do the job, he accepted BAE's terms that he would not investigate the details of allegedly corrupt deals of the past, nor BAE's system of making secret payments to middlemen through offshore accounts.
Woolf said: "If they were looking for somebody to go and look through these old allegations, I wasn't the person for the job. I'm not a policeman, I have not got the skills to fill that. And what I was interested in was helping BAE ... to set standards in global companies which meet the highest ethical standards, because that's important for the reputation of this company."
2) BAe never bribed, and everything is clean, they do not talk to much about their "issues" because they know that everyone is just waiting for a new blunder.
Quote:Woolf said "security obligations" prevented access to some relevant documentation on the contract but, on the basis of the information given by BAE, the contract "should not in itself create any risks of unethical conduct by the company".
Quote:He said that during his review Mike Turner, BAE's outgoing chief executive, and Dick Olver, the company's chairman, had conceded BAE "did not in the past pay sufficient attention to ethical standards and avoid activities that had the potential to give rise to reputational damage".
Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 8 2008, 11:31 PM
BAE Systems has, by calling for a review of the SFO inquiry, by appointing Wolf and by the fact that the SFO have in 2+ years not proven anything, shown that they are no more corrupt than Thales, Dassault, Lockheed etc..., arguably less corrupt than Dassault who have been convicted for bribery in the past.
Europe's first true UCAV - first flight 2010
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Quote:arguably less corrupt than Dassault who have been convicted for bribery in the past.
Every single one of us KNOWS what your standards are...
= PUKE MATERIAL, Rob L(iar)!!!
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 9, 2008 6:25 AM
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Really? How convenient; you trolls are going to be able to troll freely.
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May 9 2008, 9:37 AM
Get a life mate!!!
YOUR bunch are a PERMANENT INSULT TO THE INTELLIGENCE OF THE NON ANGLO-AMERICAN POSTERS IN THE WAFF.
Get offended by the truth??
Though, write the page a learn to LIVE with it starting by Rob L(iar) signature.
Quote:You are heading for a ban soon. WTF is wrong with you that you feel the need to offend everyone you debate with?
Take stock of yourself will you, your ruining every fecking thread with your rants.
It's your bunch flaming and trolling partie which are a total WASTE of forum space mate, i torpedoes them with great effisciency and i'm proud of it.
By now a lot more people are aware of the meaning of the words "WAFF syndrome" (YOUR bunch doing NOT mine BTW), or "Mine's bigger Syndrome" you really think the rest of the world is THAT stupid???
After virtualy killing some of your favourite gurus arguments on your personal fav (reason for me been banned obviously), the "superior" Eurofighter Typhoon, only to be be proven R.I.G.H.T with time (everyone can still READ my comments of two years ago), now it's the rest of your little MYTHOMANIAC STORIES and exagerations so tell the truth or hang on to your precious.
YOU GUYS REALLY NEED TO GET SOME SPECIAL CARE.
PS this is MY topic, if you DONT like it go get stuffed elsewhere.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
TEXT
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 9, 2008 9:57 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 9, 2008 9:53 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 9, 2008 9:50 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 9, 2008 9:48 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 9, 2008 9:47 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 9, 2008 9:40 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 9, 2008 9:39 AM
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NAME a sale which havent been followed by a bribdery scandal PLEASE...
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 9 2008, 11:14 AM
BAE Systems has, by calling for a review of the SFO inquiry, by appointing Wolf and by the fact that the SFO have in 2+ years not proven anything, shown that they are no more corrupt than Thales, Dassault, Lockheed etc..., arguably less corrupt than Dassault who have been convicted for bribery in the past.
Then, what about keep the investigation on the way to see if BAE is alright ?
So why does it sell as opposed to the Rafale ???
Perhaps because the wife of the austrian AF Chief got a nice sum of money from EADS ?
Perhaps because the brother in law of the Greek MoD got a one million of dollars gift just after saying that Greece choose the EF2000 ?
Perhaps because they know to keept Arabian Cheiks happy under ANY circunstances ?
This message has been edited by jesse04 on May 9, 2008 11:18 AM
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 9 2008, 12:10 PM
out of curiosity,does the U.S government using UKUSA,Echelon systems to spy on foreign companys bids & passing all attained information to their companys
count as unethical??
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 9 2008, 1:02 PM
Quote:
Then, what about keep the investigation on the way to see if BAE is alright ?
The inquiry has been ongoing for over 2 years, there is a time when the SFO has to put up or shut up, they failed to do so. In over 2 years the SFO has been unable to proove anything. I strongly doubt that France would have allowed such an inquiry to go on for 2+ years. The way some French pretend that BAE Systems is the first arms company that might have bribed is laughable. Apart from that BAE Systems just recently said they would welcome an independent review of the SFO inquiry, because they know they didn't do anything illegal.
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 9 2008, 1:39 PM
BAE Systems has, by calling for a review of the SFO inquiry, by appointing Wolf and by the fact that the SFO have in 2+ years not proven anything, shown that they are no more corrupt than Thales, Dassault, Lockheed etc..., arguably less corrupt than Dassault who have been convicted for bribery in the past.
Then, what about keep the investigation on the way to see if BAE is alright ?
So why does it sell as opposed to the Rafale ???
Perhaps because the wife of the austrian AF Chief got a nice sum of money from EADS ?
Perhaps because the brother in law of the Greek MoD got a one million of dollars gift just after saying that Greece choose the EF2000 ?
Perhaps because they know to keept Arabian Cheiks happy under ANY circunstances ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am pretty sure that lobbies from other bidding countries tried the same, but failed to place their product.
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 9 2008, 2:16 PM
French lecturing on corruption and bribery...............the irony
Well, sorry to reveal you the truth .....
Scorpene submarine sale to India
Agsuta-Dassault scandal in Belgium (Serge dassault found guilty by a Belgium court of "active corruption")
Thales corruption scandal in South Africa
Thales corruption by Argentine unit
Sure, certainly, and what's tehpoint ?
The daddy of them all...............'Clearstream'
Even Sarkozy was implicated in this one.
Sorry, that Clearstream story is a hoax
The inquiry has been ongoing for over 2 years, there is a time when the SFO has to put up or shut up, they failed to do so. In over 2 years the SFO has been unable to proove anything.
2 years ? That's not very long. BTW, the investigation revealed enough "troubles" for an official request to Switzerland to lift up some banquing secrets, something that isn't been done easily.
You ask us to believe that there was some smoke but no fire ?
I strongly doubt that France would have allowed such an inquiry to go on for 2+ years.
You think, so, you are.
I am pretty sure that lobbies from other bidding countries tried the same, but failed to place their product.
In Austria, it seems that Dassault hasn't received the exact same requirement from Austria, so that they proprosed the mriage 2000 and not the Rafale.
Anyway, the austrian AF has now a harsch punishment
In greece, no, really, Dassault or LM couldn't be heard, even with amazing discount of more than 20%
Well, to sumemrize, during competition, the Rafale is always among the finalist, Typhoon is often the first out
This message has been edited by jesse04 on May 9, 2008 2:26 PM This message has been edited by jesse04 on May 9, 2008 2:23 PM
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 9 2008, 3:37 PM
Well, to sumemrize, during competition, the Rafale is always among the finalist, Typhoon is often the first out
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah - and if you can`t manage to place your product (even it beats the competitors) it feels like the 4th place during olympics.
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 9 2008, 3:44 PM
Yeah - and if you can`t manage to place your product (even it beats the competitors) it feels like the 4th place during olympics.
My sentence was more diplomatic than what it looks .....
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 9 2008, 3:52 PM
2 years ? That's not very long. BTW, the investigation revealed enough "troubles" for an official request to Switzerland to lift up some banquing secrets, something that isn't been done easily.
2 years is very long. I am not aware of any serious intent by France to clear up Thales corruptions in India, etc... .
You ask us to believe that there was some smoke but no fire ?
The Smoke was not of an illegal fire.
In Austria, it seems that Dassault hasn't received the exact same requirement from Austria, so that they proprosed the mriage 2000 and not the Rafale.
Anyway, the austrian AF has now a harsch punishment
What? The punishment being that they are flying the most advanced European fighter currently available?
Well, to sumemrize, during competition, the Rafale is always among the finalist, Typhoon is often the first
In Norway Rafale was first out. In Saudi-Arabia Rafale was out before the winner Typhoon. In Turkey Rafale was out right from the start. In Denmark Rafale was first out. In Japan Rafale isn't being considered. And so on.
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Quote:
What? The punishment being that they are flying the most advanced European fighter currently available?
YOU MEAN: The one that's got high-frequency vibrations in the intakes?
YOU MEAN: The one which keep landing wheel up????
YOU MEAN: The one which cant STOP rolls accurately even so its roll rate is 90*/sec INFERIOR to that of a Rafale or a Mirage?
YOU MEAN: The one with 4th generation core systems vs 5th gen for Rafale mirage 2000 Mk2?
Whot a bloody advance are you talking about?
HO i SEE the one that's is available to RAF, France have WAY BETTER.
ADVANCED "AVAILABLE" PYROTECHNIC BY EUROFIGHTER!!!
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 9, 2008 4:45 PM
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 9 2008, 5:00 PM
TMor,
BAE is a huge company; its activities go far beyond the Eurofighter and Tornado. The comments attributed to Mr Woolf (“did not in the past pay sufficient attention to ethical standards”) are pretty ambiguous in terms of what they refer to and don’t necessarily point to bribery. There’s nothing in this article or in the actual report that lends any more weight to the allegation that BAE Systems acted improperly in the sale of either aircraft mentioned. As you said there are two possibilities and neither can be proven by this article. To claim so is sensationalism.
Also, IIRC, there have been no allegations of misconduct in the most recent sale of Typhoons to Saudi Arabia; the SFO and other investigations have all related to the original AY contract.
The usual there's nothing about corruption in this article.
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May 9 2008, 5:02 PM
Keep your idiotic explainations for the Red Coats group; other people CAN read english without your help which BTW helps to see through the TONS of SPIN/TWIST and overall bull****sd you're posting...
LIKE this one for example....
Quote:Quote ppp56:
The French find it so good in fact that they are repeatedly slashing their order
SHOW us an official staTment saying SO please, troll!!!
SUPERIOR AND AVAILABLE TO RAF...
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 9, 2008 5:08 PM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 9, 2008 5:08 PM
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Re: Why Tornados and Eurofigther Typhoon sells????
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May 9 2008, 5:30 PM
Quote:other people CAN read english without your help
Yes, it's just unfortunate that you're not one of them.
Read my posts again and you’ll see I never said that there was nothing in this article about corruption in general but that there was nothing about specific corruption in its attempts to sell its products.. In other words there is no evidence here to back up previous allegations. The writer mentioning that these allegation exist does not constitute that evidence.
My point is this article does nothing to help determine whether or not BAE Systems bribed or otherwise used illegal methods to sell either the Typhoon or Tornado as you inferred.
The article doesnt NEED your funny interpretations.
It's clear enough without your poor atempt at bluring reality, actualy the only one you are fooling is yourself.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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