RAF looks to long-range Typhoon
Conformal fuel tanks and other enhancements to extend the strike range of its Eurofighter Typhoon combat aircraft are emerging as requirements for the UK Royal...
09-May-2008
Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 4:48 PM
That thing with the Aussies was several years ago when there was still a chance that they'd buy it. Much work has been done because of that, so it should be easily doable.
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 4:59 PM
is it a confirmation of typhoon's design failure ?
Rafale's were equipped with drop tanks long ago, guess that makes it a design failure too since it too uses additional tanks. Oh, and so is Mirage 2000! Basicly P4 what your saying is the only non design failure is the F22
"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 5:14 PM
Quote:Rafale's were equipped with drop tanks long ago, guess that makes it a design failure too since it too uses additional tanks. Oh, and so is Mirage 2000! Basicly P4 what your saying is the only non design failure is the F22
The "idiot" have another question
Does conformal tank = additional tank ? and the opposite
This message has been edited by gomica on May 14, 2008 5:30 PM This message has been edited by gomica on May 14, 2008 5:14 PM
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 5:38 PM
Conformal fuel tanks AKA CFTs are extra fuel tanks mounted on the spine of the plane, CFTs are mostly after thought to fulfill some later upgrade requirements (longer combat radius). Some F-16s have it and a good example would be this J-10 CGI.
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 6:48 PM
So it will look like this with CFTs on
'The Typhoon will carry two tanks, each holding 1500 litres of fuel fitted to the fuselage above each wing. This additional tankage should increase the aircrafts range by approximately 25%. At present no in-service dates have been set but they should become available for Tranche-3 and perhaps even Tranche-2 aircraft. While the primary customer is the Royal Air Force the increase in range offered is highly beneficial to other potential customers, particularly Australia'
Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 7:52 PM
Can someone post Typhoon's pics with 2 scalp and drop tank, thanks. (for more cummie fun)
If your going to copy other members, you could at least try to understand what they mean first. "Cummie fun", Kiddykawk's term I might add, refers to his collection of anti western posts from the view of China... are you a supporter of communist China? Do you realise he mocks France too? Maybe it's time you switched over to the China group
"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 8:37 PM
Conbat proven over A-stan with LGB, AASM which doesn't need a lpd, gun fire.
-----------
Sorry but the Rafale is NOT combat proven. Dropping a LGB under those conditions is nothing different from a regular exercise.
Mobile airpower
"The enemy dies relaxed," observed a Lockheed Martin manager.
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 8:52 PM
Quote:Sorry but the Rafale is NOT combat proven. Dropping a LGB under those conditions is nothing different from a regular exercise.
If shooting gun fire at low level, dropping LGB and AASM against taliban armed with ak-47, rpg and short range AA missile is not combat prooven, tell it in front of the pilots.
SOS, help, i need some CFT to increase my short range because all my pylon are on duty to deliver those weapons.
Is this onfiguration realistic or is it a hoax?
Quote:You're right, France is not the west, but it is part of the west.
Go grab a map, look at it...before you go and make another stupid comment!
Geographical situation is one thing but not all, you forgot value, dispite this i see France in the Pacifique, in the Indian ocean in the Caraibe, in south America and in north America.
Soon on the moon.
This message has been edited by gomica on May 14, 2008 9:06 PM This message has been edited by gomica on May 14, 2008 9:00 PM This message has been edited by gomica on May 14, 2008 8:59 PM This message has been edited by gomica on May 14, 2008 8:54 PM
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 9:20 PM
Sorry but the Rafale is NOT combat proven. Dropping a LGB under those conditions is nothing different from a regular exercise.
Very true, this is little more than a live fire exercise. If they deployed 12 Rafale and realised it's landing distance tended to be far far longer in hot, high altitute conditions (just an example) than estimated than that would IMO be a success as they could plan that into future deployments.
Geographical situation is one thing but not all, you forgot value, dispite this i see France in the Pacifique, in the Indian ocean in the Caraibe, in south America and in north America.
Soon on the moon.
Those aren't "France" though, they are overseas territories. For example, the Falklands Islands are part of the UK, but that doesn't make Great Britain a South American country. Not too good at this, are you Gomica?
"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 9:31 PM
1) Rafale has been deployed on a far combat theatre, and has conducted live firing with several kind of weapons, gun, GBU-12, and AASM. This is combat, though they received so far no threat. But pilots keep being careful because the fighter is still exposed to taliban's kalashnikov fire, and who knows ? Still no Stingers or something ?
2) the LDP integration issue for Rafale is just a matter of priority, not a technical problem. In 2009, the Rafale will start using the Damocles, and it won't sacrifice a single weapon or drop tank to do so.
The fact that it isn't done yet doesn't mean that the Rafale has no significant air2ground capability, since the AASM is capable of the same missions as GBUs, and do it much better, at stand-off ranges, etc. The fact that Typhoon will use a LDP before Rafale is a very marginal and non-significant advantage, since it remains "an austere A2G capability". Rafale is OK for nearly every A2G mission, with gun, AASM, and Scalp. More to come in the coming monthes.
3)
Quote:Rafale's were equipped with drop tanks long ago, guess that makes it a design failure too since it too uses additional tanks. Oh, and so is Mirage 2000! Basicly P4 what your saying is the only non design failure is the F22
F-22 uses drop tanks too.
A drop tank is an additional tank, or course, but of a kind which is made to keep the fighter light, and if needed, they can be dropped not to sacrifice the fighter's performance.
Though CFT are made to have little impact on performance, they've always been an after thought solution.
4) IMHO, the adoption of CFT by RAF (main user, and co-developper) means a change of requirements (additionnal range needed). Using bigger drop tanks (a natural idea) would have cost too much on weapon store.
To me, a change in requirements isn't a design failure. It has more to do with a earlier lack of clairvoyance, for any reason.
Remember : Rafale was made to be capable of bringing 3 tons of weapons 1000 nm away. It can do it without CFT. No design failure here. CFT for Rafale were studied for Korea, which means that the requirements weren't the same as France, they needed the Rafale to bring more, and farther. It became possible with CFT.
I think CFT are used mainly when requirements change, so as to make a fighter capable of bringing more weapon and at greater range.
Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 9:43 PM
Sorry but the Rafale is NOT combat proven. Dropping a LGB under those conditions is nothing different from a regular exercise.
So, nothing since GW1 can be named "combat proven".
is it a confirmation of typhoon's design failure ?
Please, be more acure with your sentences, we have a very sensible public here.
Let's say that the design isn't flexible enough to afford an efficient ratio payload/range.
This message has been edited by jesse04 on May 14, 2008 10:09 PM
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 14 2008, 10:18 PM
Thanks for posting this, this shows very well why this will be a giant leap ahead for Typhoon.
With CFTs
About 9000 litres of kerosine (6000 + 3000 in the CFTs)
2 Storm Shadows
2 LGBs
1 LDP (instead of drop tank)
2 Mavericks or Alarms (?)
4 Amraam
2 Asraam
To achieve the same Rafale needs 2 drop tanks of 2000 litres each. lol
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Rafale is lighter and can STILL be fited with CFS and a POD.
With or without CFT Typhoon payload is INFERIOR to that of a Rafale, get used to this F.A.C.T.
LOOSER!!!
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 15, 2008 6:45 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 15, 2008 5:07 AM
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 15 2008, 10:51 AM
Quote:Thanks for posting this, this shows very well why this will be a giant leap ahead for Typhoon.
With CFTs
About 9000 litres of kerosine (6000 + 3000 in the CFTs)
2 Storm Shadows
2 LGBs
1 LDP (instead of drop tank)
2 Mavericks or Alarms (?)
4 Amraam
2 Asraam
To achieve the same Rafale needs 2 drop tanks of 2000 litres each. lol
Question mate :
2 Storm Shadow = 2.6T
2 LGBs = 0.5T
2 Maverick / Alarm = 0.5T
4 Amraam = 0.64T
2 Asraam = ~0.18T
3000L in CFT = 2.4T
1000L in drop tank = 0.8T
5 T of internal fuel.
--------------
23.6 T without pylons for the single seater. Isn't it a bit too much ? (just a bit ?)
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 15 2008, 3:43 PM
Quote:
23.6 T without pylons for the single seater. Isn't it a bit too much ? (just a bit ?)
According to Eurofighter GmbH, Typhoons have flown at 24.5 tons in tests. Also why shouldn't MTOW increase with stronger engines and other modifications? The RAF is hardly going to add CFTs and then realize: "Damn, the MTOW!".
Europe's first true UCAV - first flight 2010
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 15 2008, 3:47 PM
Quote:
2 Storm Shadow = 2.6T
2 LGBs = 0.5T
2 Maverick / Alarm = 0.5T
4 Amraam = 0.64T
2 Asraam = ~0.18T
3000L in CFT = 2.4T
1000L in drop tank = 0.8T
5 T of internal fuel.
--------------
23.6 T without pylons for the single seater. Isn't it a bit too much ? (just a bit ?)
No drop tank by the way, centreline is for the laser designator pod, which should weigh less than 800 kgs.
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 15 2008, 5:33 PM
(it's interesting to see where they put the Storm Shadows)
Quote:According to Eurofighter GmbH, Typhoons have flown at 24.5 tons in tests.
With what ? How can a 11T fighter, bringing 4 GBU-16, 3x1000L drop tanks, 4 Amraam and 2 Asraam weight 24.5 at take-off ?
4 GBU-16 = ~2T (a bit more ?)
3 x1000L = 2.4T
4 Amraam = 0.46T
2 Asraam = ~ 0.16T
+5T of internal fuel
+11.6T supposed empty double seater weight
---------------------------------
21.62T
The IPA3 may weight 1 ton more than SPA. We have to add the pylons (~ +0.5T), and pilots etc. Any idea ?
Since this configuration is supposed to be 24T while i find 21.6T, i'm afraid that the 23.6T (for a single seater) i found above wouldn't be O.K. if you add the stuff i forgot.
Is the IPA3 significantly heavier than SPA ? Are the SPA heavier than 11/11.6T ? I remember of an article in which it was said that the Tranch 2 had a strengthened structure... ?
Quote:
According to Eurofighter GmbH, Typhoons have flown at 24.5 tons in tests.
Instead of bullsh!ting the rest of the world please carry on giving real life datas and so FAR it IS according to EADS 23.000kg.
Same thing for your troll's signature BTW.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 15 2008, 5:37 PM
Quote:i'm afraid that the 23.6T (for a single seater)
With what ? How can a 11T fighter, bringing 4 GBU-16, 3x1000L drop tanks, 4 Amraam and 2 Asraam weight 24.5 at take-off ?
4 GBU-16 = ~2T (a bit more ?)
3 x1000L = 2.4T
4 Amraam = 0.46T
2 Asraam = ~ 0.16T
+5T of internal fuel
+11.6T supposed empty double seater weight
---------------------------------
21.62T
The IPA3 may weight 1 ton more than SPA. We have to add the pylons (~ +0.5T), and pilots etc. Any idea ?
Since this configuration is supposed to be 24T while i find 21.6T, i'm afraid that the 23.6T (for a single seater) i found above wouldn't be O.K. if you add the stuff i forgot.
It is actually about 22.9T to 23T as a LDP weighs 100kgs to 200kgs, not 800kgs. Also, no one has said that the MTOW will remain the same.
If we add 21.62T + 1T (IPA - SPA) then we arrive at 22.62T without pilots etc... . That is very close to the 22.9T to 23T.
Europe's first true UCAV - first flight 2010
This message has been edited by ThebetterRob on May 15, 2008 5:40 PM
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TROLL!! Trying the "specialist" thing doesn't SUIT you at ALL.
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May 15 2008, 5:42 PM
Typhoon is FAR from coming ABOVE 23.000kg and in ANY case it is FAR from carrying 1.5 its own weight if you see which one i mean...
As for the central tank having to be REMOVED to carry a pod it says alot about the design too...
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 15, 2008 5:43 PM
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Otherwise said carrying a matchbox through the length of a footbal field...
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 15, 2008 5:48 PM
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Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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Re: RAF looks to add conformal fuel tanks to Typhoon
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May 15 2008, 5:50 PM
Well. Lightning III weights (less than) 208kg. Ok
This makes 23T for a single seater. 23.6T for a double seater. This is still 1T above the "almost 24T" configuration. What is "almost" ? Is it under 24T ? Or "about" 24T ?
I think you're going to trade this 1T excess with the additional 1 ton of the IPA. But what aircraft will do the fight test ?
Typhoon MTOW is 23.000kg and it is WAY OFF 1.5X 11.000.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 15, 2008 6:45 PM
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(it's interesting to see where they put the Storm Shadows)
