TE:16/05/08
SOURCE:Flight International
First foreign F-35 contract awarded; Canada drops future order by 15 aircraft
By Stephen Trimble
The US Department of Defense has awarded the first contract to Lockheed Martin to build F-35 components for a foreign military customer, but reports from Australia, Canada and the Netherlands have clouded the overall sales outlook for the Joint Strike Fighter programme.
Lockheed will receive $197 million to acquire long-lead materials for 18 new aircraft, the DoD says, with these comprising eight conventional take-off and landing F-35As for the US Air Force, eight short take-off and vertical landing F-35Bs for the US Marine Corps and two F-35Bs for the UK Ministry of Defence.
The contract omits an expected order for an additional F-35A for the Netherlands, but no explanation was given. The combined order for 10 F-35Bs also is contingent on Lockheed completing the first flight of development aircraft BF-1 in late May or June.
The new order will expand Lockheed's annual production rate from 12 aircraft this year to 18 in 2009. The DoD's original schedule called for buying 32 aircraft next year, but that number was slashed because of schedule delays and funding shortfalls.
Another 19 developmental prototypes have already been ordered to participate in the JSF programme's system development and demonstration phase, with one of these delivered so far.
News of the production award came as one of the JSF development programme's eight international partners disclosed a sharp reduction for its planned order of the type.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper, briefing reporters on Ottawa's new defence strategy on 12 May, said his government has reduced its planned purchase from 80 fighters to 65. Canada is buying the F-35A to replace about 130 Boeing CF-18s, 80 of which are now being modernised. The F-35's greater capabilities will allow the government to reduce its planned order by a sixth, he added.
An Australian think-tank, meanwhile, also published a report on 12 May that raises fresh concerns about the F-35's price. The Australian Strategic Policy Institute estimates that the cost of the F-35A may have grown by one-third, as overall programme costs have increased by 50% since the SDD phase began in 2001.
Lockheed, however, has publicly guaranteed Norway a unit non-recurring flyaway price of $56 million, using current dollars, while Australian newspapers quoted Lockheed officials guaranteeing a unit flyaway cost of $62 million.
F:\Documents\New\F-35\First foreign F-35 contract awarded; Canada drops future order by 15 aircraft.htm
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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Re: First foreign F-35 contract awarded; Canada drops future order by 15 aircraft
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May 16 2008, 1:12 PM
65, that's it? 80 seemed pretty low to me, but 65.... Don't they know how big the Canadian airspace is and how vulnerable it'd be to a russian attack. The threat is very low nowadays, but who know what'll happen in 20+ years, look at how much the world changed in the last 20. Politicians are getting really shortsighted.
"Memento Audere Semper"
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Re: First foreign F-35 contract awarded; Canada drops future order by 15 aircraft
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May 16 2008, 1:49 PM
Quote:65, that's it? 80 seemed pretty low to me, but 65.... Don't they know how big the Canadian airspace is and how vulnerable it'd be to a russian attack. The threat is very low nowadays, but who know what'll happen in 20+ years, look at how much the world changed in the last 20. Politicians are getting really shortsighted.
Agreed. With reserve airframes taken into account, that's only enough for 3x frontline squadrons and an OCU!
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Of all the CF-18's we currently have, many of them never see the skies and over half are used for training IIRC.
This fleet of 65 will most likely give us more front line fighters than we currently have.
Besides. There is no threat of invasion, so there is no need to have hundreds of them.
The numbers we will be getting will be committed to our regular patrols, NORAD and international conflicts.
The size of Canada is irrelevant. If there was ever threat of invasion, or a major conflict, we will acquire accordingly, as we always have.
In the meantime, there is no reason to go heavily over budget on one branch of the armed forces over the theory that Canada may one day be invaded by Russia of all nations...
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Re: First foreign F-35 contract awarded; Canada drops future order by 15 aircraft
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May 16 2008, 2:47 PM
The Australian Strategic Policy Institute estimates that the cost of the F-35A may have grown by one-third, as overall programme costs have increased by 50% since the SDD phase began in 2001.
Interestingly enough, when Australia signed up for the SDD phase began in 2001, the Australian dollar was only worth around 48c US. These days its worth around 95c US, and is going up. The price of the JSF could have doubled sine 2001, and Australia could still afford the same amount from the same budget. Funny how the world works.
On a related note, in the latest budget released this week, it was revealed the actual cost of the 24 Super Hornets will be $3.156 billion dollars, which is a fair bit different to the $6.6 billion quoted in some sources.
- Sarge
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Re: First foreign F-35 contract awarded; Canada drops future order by 15 aircraft
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May 16 2008, 3:15 PM
UK and USA.
20% of the total long lead work will be done in Warton, UK. This prooves the relatively speaking large amount of work for the UK, we are buying about 5% of all planes and are getting about 20% of all work.
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Quote:20% of the total long lead work will be done in Warton, UK. This prooves the relatively speaking large amount of work for the UK, we are buying about 5% of all planes and are getting about 20% of all work.
And WHY is this so surprising?
As far as where history goes, the programe was a full USA/UK collaborative effort from day one, what you fail to mention is the FACT that the UK participation have been LOWERED (Just as were the specification BTW) since it started as well as the amount of researches due to be conducted by the UK.
In all it is a LOWER share to the programe than the previous which was Harrier II and it's even worse considering that during the Harrier Programme, Rolls-Royce had the majority of the share in the engine department.
NOT the case today.
Only a look at the NAO PDFs is enough to have an idea about it.
As usual you don't tell it as it is Rob L(iar)!
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 16, 2008 3:33 PM
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Canada says no guarantee it will buy F-35 fighters
OTTAWA, May 14 (Reuters) - There is no guarantee that Canada will buy any F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) despite helping to fund development of the new generation U.S. warplane, a senior military official said on Wednesday.
The message contradicted what officials said last year when they told reporters that Ottawa planned to buy 80 JSFs, which will be made by Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research).
Earlier this week Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Canada would buy 65 modern fighters. When asked what kind of fighters, a Harper spokeswoman referred to the JSF program.
But the military official said that although the JSF was "a very good aircraft", Canada would be keeping its options open.
"Canada has not made a decision that (it) would procure the Joint Strike Fighter ... When it comes to the actual decision as which aircraft to purchase, it will be on a competitive basis," he told a briefing.
The new fighters are intended to replace Canada's CF-18s, which are scheduled to reach the end of their working lives in 2017-20. Canada bought 138 of them in the 1980s and now has 98, 80 of which are being refurbished.
The Joint Strike Fighter program is being funded by the United States, Canada and seven other countries.
Asked why Canada might not buy an aircraft it had helped develop, the official replied: "We think that the Joint Strike Fighter is a very good aircraft ... we're really looking forward to the decision process and the acquisition process." (Reporting by David Ljunggren; Editing by Peter Galloway)
----
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Re: First foreign F-35 contract awarded; Canada drops future order by 15 aircraft
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May 16 2008, 6:58 PM
Maybe the MOD should pay for our order now, while the currency is favourable!
65, that's it? 80 seemed pretty low to me, but 65.... Don't they know how big the Canadian airspace is and how vulnerable it'd be to a russian attack. The threat is very low nowadays, but who know what'll happen in 20+ years, look at how much the world changed in the last 20. Politicians are getting really shortsighted.
Sure they wont be able to counter a Russian attack but Canada needs a lot more than F35's to do that. You need more of everything! Canada doesn't even have it's AWACS! Besides, Russia lacks the logistics to invade anyone major.
In the meantime, there is no reason to go heavily over budget on one branch of the armed forces over the theory that Canada may one day be invaded by Russia of all nations...
Agreed.
And WHY is this so surprising?
As far as where history goes, the programe was a full USA/UK collaborative effort from day one, what you fail to mention is the FACT that the UK participation have been LOWERED (Just as were the specification BTW) since it started as well as the amount of researches due to be conducted by the UK.
In all it is a LOWER share to the programe than the previous which was Harrier II and it's even worse considering that during the Harrier Programme, Rolls-Royce had the majority of the share in the engine department.
Yea the UK's getting 20% of a few thousand aircraft, whilst only ordering 138ish... really losing out there eh Sampaix!
You can attribute this to whatever you like... participation in Iraq, being involved in the program from the very start, the price of tea in China... When all is said and done, we still have 20%, 20% more than France will ever get.
"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."
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Quote:"You can attribute this to whatever you like... participation in Iraq, being involved in the program from the very start, the price of tea in China... When all is said and done, we still have 20%, 20% more than France will ever get."
How infortunate that France get 100% of her own programe.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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Boy; you can come up with every of your big figures point is:
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May 16 2008, 7:59 PM
YOU CANT PUT IT TOGETHER ON YOUR OWN.
Design and manufacturing capabilities doesn't depend on SHARES but on PRACTICE, so your flamer's stuff doesn't; not only add-up, it also goes NOWHERE near to be helping you to make a case.
There is NO advanced programe in the UK where BAe is in full control of design and manufacturing appart for the TARANIS UAV which retains a LARGE part of already developed technologies ans systems with a very extensive list of off-the-shelf stuff from programes as old as Corax and Raven.
You have nothing NEW, Mike Turner from BAE said it himself, they NEED full-size programes to keep up with the rest and salvage what remains of the skills they still have and when it comes to operational RECORDS quality and expertise SHOWS, NOT on Typhoon or F-35 side that is at the view of the problems they encounters for the past years by the two programes...
Dassault and Thales have Rafale, SNECMA have M-88, you got metal bashing + screwed big time by the US, even more than with the previous programe.
Keep trolling mate it doesn't change ANYTHING to reality and we rather have Rafale as a National technological drive than what you got because France develops it fully weither the UK doesn't develop ANY of its fighter programes on her own.
Enuff said, you lost it BIG time.
drkstr)
It's YOUR reality which haven't changed as well as your usual refusal of it.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 16, 2008 8:06 PM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 16, 2008 8:04 PM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 16, 2008 8:02 PM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 16, 2008 8:01 PM
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Out of contexte mate you dont do M2.0 fighters technologies with trainers and subsonic UAVs.
+ I Trust the BAE boss a little more than your EGO.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 16, 2008 11:37 PM
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Re: First foreign F-35 contract awarded; Canada drops future order by 15 aircraft
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May 18 2008, 3:04 AM
it mean asssembling 600 F35 build only with fin tails?
Most of Sony stuffs are made in china today, it doesn't mean china designs and technologies rules the world!
Are suggesting a tail fin is responsible for 20% of the production cost of an F35? Either your wrong, or it's an exceptionally complex tail fin, take your pick
"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."
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Quote:ppp56) Are suggesting a tail fin is responsible for 20% of the production cost of an F35? Either your wrong, or it's an exceptionally complex tail fin, take your pick
WE KNOW what the UK is responsible for in this programe and it's WAY LESS than for the Harrier II programe, no need to take a pick.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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There ARE NAO repports to suggest the TRUTH and it's not your usual Bulls.
--------------------
The UK got LESS share, LESS capabilities for a HIGHER COST than originaly planned because the developement cost escalated so fast the agreed ceiling was reached long ago.
Priorities have to be CHANGED to make it happen at an affordable cost without actually having to cut on the number of aircraft acquiered, which is still possible if cost keep increasing at this rate.
F-35 programe provides the UK with LESS share than the previous Harrier II programe and this suggest to the rest of us that you've been SCREWED.
For the rest, be it AVIONICS, DEFENSE SYSTEM, ENGINE, it's STILL isn't on par with a fully National programe of the same generation when it comes to technology R&D because it's done from a US aircraft design requierements.
More to the point the most sensitive part, the radar is FULLY and ONLY USA.
Before you start another spin, TWO European programes are level pegged with F-35 when it comes to 5th generation systems and avionics(and NO it's NOT Eurofighter) so F-35 is not the only aircraft which will be equiped with this generation of systems when it enters service.
Impact on technologic progresses is WAY lower for F-35 partners to the US than for France and Sweeden.
Try something smarter if you can.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 18, 2008 5:36 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 18, 2008 5:34 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 18, 2008 5:25 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 18, 2008 5:23 AM
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Re: First foreign F-35 contract awarded; Canada drops future order by 15 aircraft
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May 18 2008, 8:19 AM
I don't get why the UK is so proud to have introduced a non European fighter in the EU when the EU need a common procurement policy of EU made hardware in order to gain competitiveness and keep its expertise.
Specially on such strategic and technological hardware like fighters. And specially when there is already 3 credible European companies/consortium able to design and build the planes. All this for a mere 20% of a program and no real gain in know how for the EU.
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Re: First foreign F-35 contract awarded; Canada drops future order by 15 aircraft
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May 18 2008, 8:58 AM
I don't get why the UK is so proud to have introduced a non European fighter in the EU when the EU need a common procurement policy of EU made hardware in order to gain competitiveness and keep its expertise.
Ha ha ha ha, the irony, perhaps you should have thought about that before claiming 50% of all work for Dassault on EFA and try to force the other countries into subcontractor positions despite France not buying 20 times more aircraft than the UK or Germany. Now its too late to whine, the aim is to kill off Dassault on the export market.
Specially on such strategic and technological hardware like fighters. And specially when there is already 3 credible European companies/consortium able to design and build the planes. All this for a mere 20% of a program and no real gain in know how for the EU.
No real gain? LOL. I wasn't aware that it is no gain to work on a next generation fighter engine, or design and build most of the STOVL system, or be part of the first true 5th generation multirole fighter, or get full technology transfer. BAE Systems is in a much better position than Dassault, they are part of three modern combat aircraft programmes (37.5% of Typhoon, ?% of Gripen, 20% of F35), one AJT (100% Hawk), one MPA (100% Nimrod MRA4), several UAVs and UCAVS (100% Herti, 100% Taranis) whilst Dassault has... has... yeah Rafale and a 50% share in Neuron. LOL.
Europe's first true UCAV - first flight 2010
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Quote: I wasn't aware that it is no gain to work on a next generation fighter engine,
AGAIN Rob L(iar) You're kind of pretending to be prepared enough to WIN the London Marathon with your local pub runs for training, your flaming bullsh!ts doesnt compare to what Mike Turners says about safeguarding design capabilties and SKILLS.
Quote:or design and build most of the STOVL system,
Thats ALL you got on the engine or almost, NOT too shabby, SNECMA does 100% of M-88 and ECO.
Quote: or be part of the first true 5th generation multirole fighter,
Surely NOT TROLL!! According to the US even F/A-18 IS a 5thg generation fighter, plus you forgot F-22...
CAN YOU READ ENGLISH TROLL???
AGAIN there was NO STEALTH, AERODYNAMIC, and STRUCTURAL design done by the UK. Detailed design was done UNDER FULL L-M leadership.
Design configuration were already FROZEN when BAE signed-up as for the SWAT team it was of course with MINIMUM British input and under FULL design lead of L-M. = 20% of little in terms of 0% CONCEIPTUAL, STEALTH, AERODYNAMIC, STRUCTURAL DESIGN.
All BAe have done is the TOOLING stage of design...
Quote:or get full technology transfer.
LOL! For WHAT? An over-hyped under-performing M 1.6 strike aircraft?
Quote: BAE Systems is in a much better position than Dassault, they are part of three modern combat aircraft programmes (37.5% of Typhoon, ?% of Gripen, 20% of F35),
LOL!!! "Part of", NONE of which is actually as DESIGN LEAD and i think Sig is going to be LAUGHING at your ?SAAB thing = ZERO???.
Quote:several UAVs and UCAVS (100% Herti, 100% Taranis) whilst Dassault has... has... yeah Rafale and a 50% share in Neuron. LOL.
TROLL!!! TARANIS = NO UCAV and YOU know it too well, as for the rest it's certainly NOT the same LEAGUE your little list includes two of the mosty notorious design FCUK-UPs of all time, isn't the Indian Hawk fl;eet GROUNDED today???
What about Nimrod??? Reduction in procurement number due to design FCUK-UPs and COST overruns???
TARANIS is WAY out of nEUROn league with most of its systems already coming from Corax, Raven and Herti to cut COST = MOSTLY COTS.
NO weapon system or internal weapon BAY...
nEUROn IS the ONLY UCAV programe in the EUs and Dassault is lead design!
As for the rest ALL they produces now is WAY more advanced than everything in your list and THEY are the No1 in their leagues and world MOST advanced designers with Falcons and nEUROn, with SEVERAL world FIRST to their credit.
And GUESS WHAT Rob L(iar) their aircrafts DON'T land on the chin!!!
You really are desperate, try adding the kitchen sink.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
This message has been edited by sampaix on May 18, 2008 10:54 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 18, 2008 10:52 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on May 18, 2008 10:44 AM
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Rolls-Royce: 38% of a 1500 engine programme (EJ200), 40% of a 3000 engine programme (F136) and a 20% of a 1000 engine programme (F135B) --> 1970 engines equivalent
Snecma: 100% of a 600 engine programme
1970 >> 600 LOL.
Europe's first true UCAV - first flight 2010
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Re: First foreign F-35 contract awarded; Canada drops future order by 15 aircraft
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May 18 2008, 11:46 AM
I don't get why the UK is so proud to have introduced a non European fighter in the EU when the EU need a common procurement policy of EU made hardware in order to gain competitiveness and keep its expertise.
Specially on such strategic and technological hardware like fighters. And specially when there is already 3 credible European companies/consortium able to design and build the planes. All this for a mere 20% of a program and no real gain in know how for the EU.
Common procurement policy? Are you taking the piss? France has no interest in a "common European procurement policy" it has an interest in an "all Europeans should buy French products and maybe we will give them some workshare" policy. Your in NO position to lecture other countries on co-operation, France is the least co-operative of the lot.
No real gain? LOL. I wasn't aware that it is no gain to work on a next generation fighter engine, or design and build most of the STOVL system, or be part of the first true 5th generation multirole fighter, or get full technology transfer. BAE Systems is in a much better position than Dassault, they are part of three modern combat aircraft programmes (37.5% of Typhoon, ?% of Gripen, 20% of F35), one AJT (100% Hawk), one MPA (100% Nimrod MRA4), several UAVs and UCAVS (100% Herti, 100% Taranis) whilst Dassault has... has... yeah Rafale and a 50% share in Neuron. LOL.
That's not quite what he said, he said "no real gain in know how for the EU", and we must remember that by "EU" he really means "France"
Thats ALL you got on the engine or almost, NOT too shabby, SNECMA does 100% of M-88 and ECO.
Ahh so it's tail fin AND engine now. Prepared to recognise any further British contributions?
"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."
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Details given by MYSELF are from programe politico-industrial history and YOU only postlinks hoping no one would have a look in deaph TROLL!!!
NO UK- STEALTH, AERODYNAMIC, STRUCTURAL DESIGN.
"The aft fuselage and empennage (tails and fins) for each F-35 JSF are being designed,"
Means TOOLING. There are several different design STAGES mate and as i said:
1) BEFORE BAe joined Design was alredy FROZEN.
2) SWAP re-Design team was under FULL LM LEAD.
Now go troll elsewhere mate you're so ineducated you can't even make sense of what all of these staments SAYS!!!
Quote:As for engines:
Rolls-Royce: 38% of a 1500 engine programme (EJ200), 40% of a 3000 engine programme (F136) and a 20% of a 1000 engine programme (F135B) --> 1970 engines equivalent
METAL BASHING FOR THE US AGAIN???
Quote:Snecma: 100% of a 600 engine programme
TYPICAL Rob L(iar) SPIN AND TWIST DISGUSTING PUKE-MATERIAL-FLAMING!!!
Commercial engines
Over the last three decades Snecma has developed a number of international partnerships and alliances with leaders in the aerospace industry, based on a commitment to pooling best-in-class competencies, while sharing costs and risks
CFM56
CFM56 engines are developed and marketed by CFM International, an equally-owned subsidiary of Snecma and General Electric.
CF6
Snecma’s collaboration with General Electric also extends to higher-thrust engines, such as the CF6. Snecma holds 10% of the CF6-80C2 and 19.4% of the CF6-80E1, with production, assembly and testing responsibilities.
GE90
Snecma has a 23.5% stake in the General Electric GE90 program, including design, production, assembly and support responsibilities. Snecma also has a 23.7% stake in the GE90-115B, including most of the high pressure compressor.
Through the equally-owned subsidiary CFAN, Snecma produces wide-chord composite fan blades for the GE90 and GE90-115B.
GP7200
Snecma recently stepped up its presence in the large turbofan segment by joining the GP7200 program managed by the Engine Alliance, a 50/50 joint venture of General Electric and Pratt & Whitney. The GP7200 is intended for the new Airbus A380 super-jumbo jet.
Snecma has 20 percent of General Electric’s share, or 10% of the engine program as a whole.
SaM146
Snecma and NPO Saturn of Russia have created the equal joint venture PowerJet, in charge of development, production, marketing and support for the new regional aircraft propulsion system, the SaM146. Snecma and NPO Saturn also recently founded a production unit, VolgAero, which will make parts for the SaM146. http://www.snecma.com/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=109&lang=en
Space engines
Over the last three decades Snecma has developed a number of international partnerships and alliances with leaders in the aerospace industry, based on a commitment to pooling best-in-class competencies, while sharing costs and risks
Vulcain®2
The Vulcain®2 cryogenic engine, successor to the Vulcain®, powers the Ariane 5 ECA main stage. Snecma was named Vulcain® program prime contractor by French space agency CNES, which was assigned technical and financial responsibility for the Ariane 5 program by the European Space Agency (ESA). Snecma leads a team of some 40 European companies on the Vulcain engine, including Astrium GmbH (thrust chamber), Avio (liquid oxygen turbopump) and fellow SAFRAN company Techspace Aero (cryogenic valves).
Vinci®
Snecma manages the development of the Vinci® cryogenic engine, intended to power Ariane 5’s new ESC-B upper stage, and coordinates work by a European team including traditional partners Astrium GmbH, Avio, Volvo Aero and Techspace Aero.
PPS®1350
Snecma is developing the new PPS®1350 plasma thruster for satellite applications. In conjunction with Russian partner EDB Fakel, Snecma pioneered plasma propulsion in Europe. This technology offers considerable weight savings on satellites, by consuming 5 to 6 times less fuel than a chemical thruster for the same total impulse.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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SO we LIKE big FIGURES and EXTENSIVE lists DO we???
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May 18 2008, 11:55 AM
RTDI
Snecma remains a leader in its markets through a strong emphasis on research, technology, development and engineering.
Bolstering performance in these critical areas calls on scientific partnerships with leading research organizations and laboratories, whether in France (ONERA, CEA, CNRS, universities), in Europe or internationally (for example, Snecma started a partnership in 2002 with the Ecole Centrale de Lyon engineering school and four Chinese universities). At the same time, Snecma sets up technology-oriented partnerships with fellow manufacturers, and continually leverages internal competencies to foster synergies in all areas of R&D.
Joint programs with General Electric on the CFM56 engine
The TECH56 program, in conjunction with GE, is designed to lay the groundwork for future generations of CFM56 turbofans, through advanced R&D on all major components of commercial aircraft engines. Primary objectives are to improve fuel consumption, efficiency, environmental-friendliness, maintenance costs and reliability. Technology demonstrations of engines operating under actual conditions were successfully completed in 2004.
Based on some of the technologies validated by the TECH56 program, Snecma and GE have set up an improvement program specifically targeted to the CFM56-5B and -7B engine models. The two main objectives of this program are to reduce maintenance costs and integrate the upcoming CAEP VI emission standards.
In 2005 Snecma and GE launched a new technology development program, dubbed LEAP56, to identify and validate the propulsion solutions needed for future generations of single-aisle jetliners.
Joint research programs in France
Snecma participates in a number of Research & Technology programs with some 60 partners in France, including CNRS (national scientific research agency), CEA (atomic energy commission), ONERA (national aerospace research agency), etc. The main programs are listed below.
INCA Snecma faces three major challenges in developing next-generation combustion systems: failsafe operation, minimal environmental impact (reduction of NOx, soot, etc.), and competitive costs. To meet these challenges, Snecma, along with research agencies ONERA and CNRS, has launched programs to foster continuous improvement and also identify innovative, even “disruptive” technologies.
To make their collaboration even more effective, they have pooled their skills within INCA, the French acronym for “Advanced Combustion Initiative”. Its goal is to leverage French combustion expertise, and ensure that Snecma maintains its position as a top-tier player in all related technologies.
MAIA The Advanced Mechanical Engineering Methods initiative (French initials, MAIA) launched by Snecma pools the talents of the group’s own design departments with 22 laboratories at French research agencies ONERA (aerospace) and CNRS (science). Their aim in the coming years is to develop capabilities in robust computation, structural vibration and dynamics, modeling of composite materials and contacts, and lifespan forecasts for hot and cold structures. This research will maintain Snecma at “head of class” in these technologies.
Snecma’s in-house research programs
Snecma also conducts its own R&T programs, with support from various French agencies (DPAC, DGA, CNES). A few of the main programs are listed here.
SCORES the French abbreviation for effective, silent composite fan using RTM (resin transfer molding), aims to validate the aerodynamic, acoustic and mechanical design of a large diameter fan for new engines meeting the most stringent requirements for fuel consumption and noise. It is supported by the French civil aviation program directorate, DPAC. This development is largely based on a patented Snecma technology for a multi-dimensional woven carbon composite fan blade using the RTM process. Not only does it significantly lighten the blade, it also greatly enhances resistance to bird ingestion and reduces production costs.
TPTech Snecma is working on a new turbopump, “TPTech”, with support from French space agency CNES. Still in the experimental stage, this turbopump confirmed the operability of new technological solutions in 2004. Based on these results, Snecma has now started production of a Vulcain-class turbopump, but with production cost cut in half thanks to a simplified design and reduced parts count.
HIGH-TEMPERATURE PLATFORM (PHT) The PHT program, funded by French defense procurement agency DGA, aims to develop the technologies needed for tomorrow’s high-thrust military aero-engines. The PHT test platform is a core engine fitted with the compressor and a few subassemblies from the M88 (Rafale’s engine). It includes a double annular combustor and a high-pressure, very-high-temp turbine incorporating cutting-edge technologies. Several series of tests have been carried out since 2001 to check resistance of the advanced single-crystal alloys, cooling circuits and thermal barriers to turbine inlet temperatures of 2050K.
DEM21 - COMMERCIAL CORE DEMONSTRATOR This program aims to apply the technologies developed by Snecma to a new-generation core for a commercial jet engine, refining the company’s expertise in hot parts. The core is sized for the regional jet class. Used in conjunction with a low-pressure section incorporating proven advanced technologies, the DEM21 core is designed from the outset for certification of a commercial jet engine. It comprises a compact 6-stage compressor with a high pressure ratio, a low-emissions combustor and a single-stage, very-high-temp turbine. These latter two components use technologies directly derived from the PHT program, among others.
Military engines
CFM56
The CFM56-2 was the first member of the CFM56 family of engine. It pioneered the medium-thrust high bypass turbofan concept, and introduced the one-stage HP turbine design in commercial engines to reduce maintenance costs.
Developed and produced by CFM International (CFMI), an equally-owned subsidiary of Snecma of France and General Electric of the United States, the CFM56-2 develops 22,000 to 24,000 pounds of thrust.
The CFM56-2 was jointly certified in November 1979 by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the French civil aviation authority DGAC (Direction Générale de l’Aviation Civile). The same year, it was selected by Delta Airlines, United Airlines and US Flying Tigers, to reengine their DC-8 Super 70s for passenger, VIP and cargo transport.
Today, 110 reengined DC-8 Super 70s are still in operation worldwide. Since entering service in 1982, the CFM56-2 has set new standards of reliability and endurance, while considerably increasing the aircraft’s capabilities.
At the same time, the CFM56-2’s low fuel consumption and improved takeoff performance (for increased payload and shorter turnaround), led the U.S., French, British and other major air forces to select this engine. The CFM56-2 powers the KC-135R, C-135FR, KE3, RC-135R, AWACS E3 and E6 aircraft, as original equipment or retrofit, for tactical or strategic transport, in-flight refueling, and C3I missions. The USAF is currently CFMI’s biggest single customer. More than 600 military aircraft powered by CMF56-2 engines are currently in operation.
The CFM56-3 and CFM56-7 engines also power several military applications, including the Boeing 737 Airborne Early Warning & Control aircraft, the U.S. Navy C-40 transport, and the Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft (MMA). http://www.snecma.com/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=38&lang=en
Military engines
M53
All versions of the M53 have now logged over 1 million hours in flight. Developing up to 95 kN (21,400 lb) of thrust with afterburner, the M53 has powered all versions of the Mirage 2000 fighter, including the latest multirole Mirage 2000-5 and Mirage 2000-9.
A total of 639 M53 engines are now in service with eight air forces on four continents.
The M53-P2 and its full authority digital engine control (FADEC) gives the Mirage 2000-5 exceptionally carefree handling and an extensive flight envelope. It has already flown a number of missions, demonstrating its excellent operability, reliability and maintainability.
The M53-P2-powered Mirage 2000-9 is the latest version of this famous fighter family. An engine auto-speed function means that the aircraft maintains the airspeed chosen by the pilot. This new module has been chosen by the United Arab Emirates for the 74 engines powering its Mirage fleet.
Military engines
M88
The M88-2 engine that powers Dassault’s Rafale multirole fighter is designed, developed and produced in-house by Snecma. It is the cornerstone of a family of new-generation military engines based on a common core.
The new-generation M88-2 integrates the latest technologies, including low-emissions combustor, single-crystal turbine blades and powder metallurgy disks, as well as innovations to reduce electromagnetic and infrared signatures. It’s a highly compact engine, developing 50 to 75 kN of thrust with afterburner (11,250 to 17,000 lb), giving it a very high thrust-to-weight ratio. The M88-2 also shows exceptional handling characteristics and performance, especially in terms of acceleration.
To further reduce fuel burn and increase the service life of critical engine parts (core and afterburner), Snecma has developed a new version of the engine, dubbed the M88-2E4. These improvements will reduce fuel consumption by 2 to 4% compared with the original E1 version.
The M88-2 was designed from the outset for maximum dispatch reliability, with a modular design for easy maintainability and reduced operating costs, resulting in low total cost of ownership. http://www.snecma.com/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=40&lang=en
Military engines
Larzac®
The Larzac® jet engine, rated at 13 to 14 kN of thrust (2,920 to 3,147 lb), is designed for trainers and light tactical support aircraft.
Developed jointly by Snecma and Turbomeca, the Larzac® has always powered the French-German Alpha Jet, today used by 13 air forces worldwide to train their pilots.
More than 1,250 Larzac engines are now in service, logging over 3 million flight-hours.
The Larzac®’s modular design means that the engine has been continuously upgraded, while maintaining its carefree handling, low fuel consumption and high dispatch reliability. Furthermore, it is fully suited to integrated logistics support (ILS), streamlining maintenance to reduce the total cost of ownership.
Military engines
TP400-D6
The Airbus Military A400M military transport will be powered by the TP400-D6 turboprop being built by the European engine-makers ITP, MTU Aero Engines, Rolls-Royce and Snecma.
The TP400-D6 is a triple-spool turboprop developing 11,000 shaft horsepower, making it the most powerful engine of this type in the West. It was purpose-designed for the A400M, and features proven technologies developed by the four partners on other commercial and military engines.
Airbus Military Company chose Europrop International (EPI) in early May 2003 to supply the engines for the new European military transport, the A400M. The four partners in EPI are Industria de Turbo Propulsores (ITP) of Spain, MTU Aero Engines of Germany, Rolls-Royce of the United Kingdom and Snecma of France. They are in charge of TP400-D6 design, development and propulsion. Europrop International’s head office is in Madrid (Spain).
EPI is responsible for program management and customer relations, with integrated teams coordinating overall engine design and development. Snecma is responsible for the combustor and high-pressure turbine, installation of the engine on the aircraft, the control system and accessory gearbox (assigned to Hispano-Suiza, a fellow SAFRAN company), and the lubrication system (made by Techspace Aero, also a SAFRAN company).
The Airbus Military A400M program, intended to bolster European defense capabilities, was officially launched with the May 27, 2003 signature of the production contract between EADS and the OCCAR defense procurement agency, representing the seven countries participating in this program. The seven countries have ordered a total of 180 four-engine A400Ms to date: Germany (60), France (50), Spain (27), United Kingdom (25), Turkey (10), Belgium (7) and Luxembourg (1). These aircraft will require more than 750 TP400-D6 turboprop engines.
South Africa was the first export client, with an order for 8 aircraft, followed in 2005 by Malaysia, which ordered 4 aircraft.
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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THE UKs HAVE LESS SHARES IN THE F-35 PROGRAME THAN IT WAS THE CASE FOR THE HARRIER II PROGRAME.
REDUCED CAPABILITIES AND SHARE OF SRUSIES FOR A HIGHER COST.
NOWHERE NEAR AS CLOSE TO SNECMA, THALES, DASSAULT-AVIATION IN THE MOST ADVANCED TECHNOLOGICAL SECTORS i.e MACH 2.0 FIGHTERS.
R-R DOESN'T HAVE A SINGLE MODERN FIGHTER ENGINE PROGRAME ON ITS OWN.
R-R DOESN'T HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MOST CRITICAL PARTS OF F-35.
ETC ETC. ALL YOU GOT IS YOUR OLD FLAMER'S HABIT YOUR DICDICULOUS SPIN AND TWIST MANEERS, YOUR SHEER IGNORANCE AND TROLL'S FRUSTRATION Rob L(iar)!!!
LET'S LAUGH!!!
Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were 481 occasions were Typhoons were cannibalised last year in the RAF to keep the rest of the fleet running... Jwcook <<<<<<<<<
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