<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

May 30 2008 at 2:26 PM
No score for this post

  (Login B2spirit)


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080530/ap_on_re_eu/britain_israel_deception



By GREGORY KATZ, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 6 minutes ago

LONDON - When British military leaders set up a special task force in 1969 to study how best to use deception to achieve their battlefield aims, they turned their attention to the tactics used by the Israelis — not the Americans.

Formerly classified documents released Friday by the National Archives show that many officers felt the Americans didn't have a knack for deceiving the enemy. Americans were judged to be so open and friendly that they lacked cunning.

The so-called Defense Deception Advisory Group studied in detail the way Israel's military and political leaders used a complex series of intertwined deceptions to fool their Arab enemies about the Jewish state's intentions and its military capabilities.

The British found, for example, that the Israelis confused their adversaries by setting up fake soldiers — actual mannequins in battle dress were used — near one border crossing to make their enemies think an attack was coming, forcing them to deploy troops to defend the area.

"The British are impressed to see how those techniques could be used in a modern era," said Mark Dunton, contemporary history specialist at the National Archives. "Their anxiety is that unless Britain kept its thinking fresh on this, they would lose their expertise, and the Israeli tactics are seen as ingenious and clever."

The three-year study was prompted by the fear that Britain's vaunted ability to deceive enemies at key points in battle was fading because of the long period of relative peace that followed World War II.

Fearing Britain was growing soft, officers thought they could learn from the battle-hardened Israelis. The template was the Six-Day War in 1967 in which Israel seized large amounts of land from Jordan, Syria and Egypt in a lightning-fast confrontation that left Arab nations reeling.

After Egypt blocked the strategic Straits of Tiran and expelled U.N. forces from the Sinai Desert, Israel launched pre-emptive strikes on June 5, 1967, against Egyptian and Syrian air forces, destroying them on the ground. In six days of one-sided battles, Israeli forces captured the West Bank, Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip and Sinai from Jordan, Syria and Egypt.

In an unsigned, top secret military document, that war was cited as "an example of how deception can be employed in the modern era and in such a way that the enemy decision making process is placed at a severe disadvantage."

The documents describe how Israel implemented a sophisticated, pre-planned deception strategy that included statements made by its political leaders and top diplomats during the tense prewar period.

This included the well-known decision to send many Israeli soldiers on their regular weekend home leave to convince the enemy to lower its guard just before hostilities began.

An April 10, 1972, document credits the Israelis with using a variety of strategies to confuse and demoralize their enemies, including:

_Maintaining strict secrecy about modern bombs in their arsenal, leading Arab nations to believe Israel had only World War II type bombs, and misleading the enemy about new systems.

_The use of Israeli intelligence agents who spoke Arabic well to take part in Egyptian military radio communications, giving them vital information about Egypt's military plans.

_The ability to delay information about the capture of key Arab towns, thus luring Arab patrols into devastating ambushes.

_The use of Israelis who spoke Arabic with an Egyptian accent to man the control tower at a captured airfield so that Egyptian military pilots would land their planes and be captured.

_The use of small deployments of tanks and torpedo boats to coax the enemy into defending borders where no real attack was planned.

Uri Bar-Joseph, a security and intelligence specialist at the University of Haifa in Israel, said the last tactic led the Egyptian army to send units to the south when Israel planned to attack in the north.

"It made it easier for Israel to go through the north," he said. "In general this has been known, but not many details have come out."

The British were much less impressed with the American approach, even though the task force made an extensive tour of U.S. military bases and met with senior American commanders to discuss how best to use deception.

A "Top Secret UK Eyes Only" document from June 1, 1972, states that radical differences in the national character make it unlikely that American officers will be able to use deception to their strategic advantage.

"For the British, on the other hand, it could be said that the inclination to deceive is already available as a national asset," the report states, adding that every British citizen uses guile "as a way of life."




 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
Eric
(Login Nighthawk00)
Eagle Squadron(US)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 2:42 PM 

It's only normal you learn from a military that is about equal to yours in capabilities.


Mobile airpower

"The enemy dies relaxed," observed a Lockheed Martin manager.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

pillow biter
(Login Magnus4)
Vikings

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 3:39 PM 

http://www.charlotte.com/local/story/636729.html


Quote:
I BELIEVE'

Jewish group opposes license plate

Proposed S.C. tag has a cross, stained glass

GINA SMITH AND WAYNE WASHINGTON

The (Columbia) State

A national Jewish association is opposing a new Christian license plate that could soon be available to S.C. motorists.

Wednesday, the S.C. House unanimously passed a bill that allows drivers to buy a license tag with the words "I Believe." The tag includes a cross on a stained-glass window.

After one more routine vote by House lawmakers, the bill heads back to the Senate.

The American Jewish Congress, a membership association of Jewish Americans, is urging Gov. Mark Sanford to veto the bill.

"It's singling out one faith for special treatment that other faiths are unlikely to receive," said Marc Stern, attorney for the organization. "I suspect the Legislature would not create an atheist plate. I don't think an `I Don't Believe' plate would stand much of a chance."

In 2006, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit ruled in Planned Parenthood S.C. vs. Rose that the state could not issue a pro-life plate because speech on license plates is, in significant part, government speech and is subject to the constitutional limits.

But proponents of the license plate, including Rep. Bob Walker,
R-Spartanburg, and chairman of the Education and Public Works Committee, said other groups are also welcome to request specialty license plates from the General Assembly.

"This (Christian license) plate is going to give people a choice, on their personal property, to express their personal religious beliefs," Walker said. "No one has to have this plate."




The Federal Reserve Scam!

---------------------------------------------------------------

Image hosted by Photobucket.com






 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

Jason
(Login britopinion)
Moderators

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 4:07 PM 


Magnus

Whats your post got to do with the thread.

The threads about UK/Israeli military co-operation in the late 60s not about Jewish aversion to some license plate somewhere.

At least try to keep to the original subject of the thread for a while.




 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

Jason
(Login britopinion)
Moderators

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 4:13 PM 


Quote:
"For the British, on the other hand, it could be said that the inclination to deceive is already available as a national asset," the report states, adding that every British citizen uses guile "as a way of life."


Do you think that's trying to say that we're all sneaky, cunning and caniving bastards or what ?.





    
This message has been edited by britopinion on May 30, 2008 4:19 PM


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login ppp56)
RedCoats(UK)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 4:25 PM 

Just takes a little bit of imagination

It's only normal you learn from a military that is about equal to yours in capabilities.

Israel is the complete opposite of the UK, in terms of land forces, they are much more like Germany in that they are very defensive and land focused. Israel's naval forces are pretty close to the bottom of the list in terms of capabilities, same with their capability to project forces unlike the UK.


"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Eric
(Login Nighthawk00)
Eagle Squadron(US)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 5:33 PM 

Yet the number of planes and tanks are not so different for both countries, at least back then. The tactics Britain wanted to learn were not those of power projection, but of combat. How to fight a bigger enemy (e.g. the SU)?
In that regard, Israel is close to Britain. Much closer than the US is for example. Israel's tactics and cunning is something Britain could use and is something Britain has used.


Mobile airpower

"The enemy dies relaxed," observed a Lockheed Martin manager.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
pillow biter
(Login Empirestrikesback)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 6:51 PM 

Israel is nothing like the Great UK. Israel lives on hand outs in a 3rd world state like a begger on a street. Israel is a weakling. US is also nothing. Their in debt and sinking.

Combating 3rd world countries with freebies doesnt cut it. Their very existance, before the concentration camps, was given to them by british/American aid. Just look at the size of Israel LMAO.

very petty. Dont mention the two in the same sentence.



    
This message has been edited by Empirestrikesback on May 30, 2008 6:57 PM
This message has been edited by Empirestrikesback on May 30, 2008 6:55 PM


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login ppp56)
RedCoats(UK)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 7:33 PM 

Yet the number of planes and tanks are not so different for both countries, at least back then. The tactics Britain wanted to learn were not those of power projection, but of combat. How to fight a bigger enemy (e.g. the SU)?
In that regard, Israel is close to Britain. Much closer than the US is for example. Israel's tactics and cunning is something Britain could use and is something Britain has used.


But the US would be useless for tactics, they would have nothing particularly new, however Israel had developed new tactics. In fact, I'm pretty sure the US would have studied their new tactics too.


"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Eric
(Login Nighthawk00)
Eagle Squadron(US)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 7:47 PM 

But the US would be useless for tactics, they would have nothing particularly new, however Israel had developed new tactics. In fact, I'm pretty sure the US would have studied their new tactics too.
------------
Are you saying that the UK doesn't use a lot of US doctrine?
BTW, everyone can learn from everyone. Keeping your own tactics and not improving/changing them is a sure way to lose battles.


Mobile airpower

"The enemy dies relaxed," observed a Lockheed Martin manager.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
pillow biter
(Login Empirestrikesback)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 7:50 PM 

"Are you saying that the UK doesn't use a lot of US doctrine?"

UK, (we) plan to win our battles, lol

sorry I couldnt resist LMAO.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

pillow biter
(Login Magnus4)
Vikings

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 7:54 PM 

LOL in the real world the intelligent and comparativly cohesive jews probably have more power over Great Britain and the US then any white anglo saxons have over Israel even you foreign minister is jewish

With that said one should ofcourse judge Millibands actions at the foreign offices as an individual


The Federal Reserve Scam!

---------------------------------------------------------------

Image hosted by Photobucket.com







    
This message has been edited by Magnus4 on May 30, 2008 8:07 PM


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login ppp56)
RedCoats(UK)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 7:54 PM 

Are you saying that the UK doesn't use a lot of US doctrine?
BTW, everyone can learn from everyone. Keeping your own tactics and not improving/changing them is a sure way to lose battles.


Yes and everyone does learn from everyone, but you were suggesting that the UK would benefit from the Israeli knowledge and the US would not for some reason, which is outright not true.


"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
pillow biter
(Login Empirestrikesback)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 7:58 PM 

Dont worry PPP; your experiencing American stupidity and ignorance. Nothing new.


    
This message has been edited by Empirestrikesback on May 30, 2008 8:05 PM


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Eric
(Login Nighthawk00)
Eagle Squadron(US)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 8:51 PM 

Yes and everyone does learn from everyone, but you were suggesting that the UK would benefit from the Israeli knowledge and the US would not for some reason, which is outright not true.
------
That's not what I meant.
I just said that the UK military is closer in quantity to the Israeli one, so it's only natural that some doctrines are taken from the Israelis who were very succesful in battling the arab armies.


Mobile airpower

"The enemy dies relaxed," observed a Lockheed Martin manager.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
pillow biter
(Login Empirestrikesback)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 30 2008, 8:57 PM 

With given military lol

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.


(Login B2spirit)

Re: Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception

No score for this post
May 31 2008, 6:28 PM 

Empirestrikesback,

Are you the same person formerly known as Britishempire?
Cause your and his views are almost identical




 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Current Topic - Britain looked to Israel when studying military deception  Respond to this message   
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index