Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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June 23 2008, 12:42 PM
I ve said a million or more times that is realy stupitidy for russian navy to wpend funds for this old vessel when at the same time the much younger "Lazarev" and "Ushakov" of Kirov class are going for scapping. Admiral Visotski needs immediately psychiatrist.
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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June 23 2008, 4:36 PM
These ships are ideal of the black sea fleet, if they put on new systems on it than Im all for it re-entering service, just not as the flagship. Uashkov will never see the ocean again, Lazarev might be repaired after Nakhimov but I highly doubt that, Id much rather see another Gorshkov or Yasen.
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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June 24 2008, 8:30 AM
As I read Ocakov will be armed like a 20380 corvette. 8 Uran missile plus the kinzal system. So for me is real waste of money to repaint a 40 year old vessel, and to add some newer systems. With those money possibly you can get a second Gorshkov.
As for Lazarev I ve read in airbase.ru that is worst condition than Ushakov. Ushakov is at the same shipyard with Nakhimov. So why they want to scrapp it if is in better condition than Lazarev?
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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June 24 2008, 4:09 PM
lol, how do you get around the Russian sites? Gorshkov is a 4500t sup versus a full 10000t for the Ochakov, when it comes back it will be completly refurbished and be able to serve another 20+ years. There has been no information on what it will be armed with, maybe they can even stick a Kh-101 in there though unlikely. Kirovs are expensive as hell to operate and should be used as parade ships, Ive seen a Kara class before and thought it was impressive so I can only imagine how a ship 2.5x that size would look in a foreign port.
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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June 25 2008, 5:01 PM
Ocakov is now 40 years old. Lets assume that modernization completed in 01/01/2009 you will have a 40 year old vessel. With 20 more years in service you will operate a 60 year old vessel. Well done! As for the Kh-101 the best solution it will be to operate as a common weapon for both airforce and navy but I have no information about using Kh-101 from naval platforms in the future.
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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June 25 2008, 5:17 PM
Dont make me bring the Greek footbal team into this Russia doesnt need new hulls when we have a bunch of old ones laying around, the ship isnt being repaired its being refurbished so essentially a new ship when it comes back into service. The only difference between it and a new hull would be some stealth features, but its not worth spending 5x the money to get a 10000t stealth oriented hull.
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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June 27 2008, 5:17 PM
"Dont make me bring the Greek footbal team into this"
By the way Ocakov has the same age as our Goalkeeper, Nikopolidis. He is too old for being goalkeeper, and the Greek team "eated" 5 Goals inthis Euro.
I also dispointed yesterday bacause Spain winned. You lost from a country in which gay marriages are permited!!
Anyway...
Ocakov if ever completed will opperate more as a command ship than a warship. they may add some Uran missiles , Kinzals, plus more rooms for the Admiral and his staff.
Finally, a political question: Why the siloviki faction lost its power? Has Putin any problem with the silovikis?
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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June 27 2008, 5:49 PM
You mean the old KGB club? They are still very much in power, from everything that I have read Medvedev is essentially their pawn. He seems more approachable but Putins rhetoric is still within him. Nationalism is on a very sharp rise and these guys are attractive because they have the power and some old nastalgia. I think Russia is headed for becoming an all out orthodox nation, with 90%+ identification among the populace. Essentially Russia can now be identified by an strong authoritarian figure, strong identification to Orthodoxy, powerful military rhetoric and strong ties to slavic roots. All of that has been absent in the 90s, no question in my mind that the old KGB guard is still very much in control.
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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June 27 2008, 5:52 PM
the hull is just a chunk of steel. If there are no stress problems with it, it doesnt matter if it is 6 years old, 60 years old or 200 years old. There is a minesweeper in the black sea that is still in service that was commissioned in 1916 and there are no plans to retire it. The Americans have the luxury of seemingly limitless wealth but they too realize that old hulls arent just garbage, they have a mothballed reserve fleet that is comprised of hundreds of hulls. Russia has to pull out these dinosaurs and actually use them, but the concept is one even Western navies are familiar with. If there is no problem with the steel the only issue is what subsystems you decide to install. The real issue is the quality of the selected weapons systems, not the age of the hull.
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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June 30 2008, 12:42 PM
Rescue vessel Kommuna from 1915 still going strong in BLS
Tat ships frm 1915????????!!!!!
Wats the flag on the avrora? The red background flag with navy blue stripes?
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Lachit Barphukan- The brave Ahom general that repelled the Mughal invaders and protected Assamese integrity.
Kanaklata- The brave soul, who was martyred at the age of 16, in the Indian freedom movement.
JAI AAI ASSAM; HAIL MOTHER ASSAM!!!
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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June 30 2008, 3:58 PM
The red flag is the Russian navys jack, as for Kh-101s than they can just get one of the Sovremenys set ups, 3 or 4 is probably enough to take over the island.
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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July 3 2008, 12:36 PM
Sovremmenyys are gone due to the boiler and steam machinery they have. The remaining 4-5 will retired if the Gorshkov class start mass production. By mass production I mean 4 or more ships to be commicioned by 2020. As for Kh -101, if ever introduced as naval weapon -I doupt about it- will need VLS system, and Sovs have no VLS. Gorshkov frigates with VLS will potentially and ypothetically be able to fit with kh-101. Kh - 101 will be true upgreate for Russian navy because 3M14 has only 280km range, and is only for shore targets. Kh 101 has 5000km range!!!
As for cyprus, NO WAY Turkey is mighty power, and unfortunatetly Greek politicians are dumps. We have to protect our territory from the Turkish aggression but our navy is very weak. Only if we purchase FREMM frigates from France we can balance the Turkish superiority. FREMM will carry the SCALP naval, with range of 1000km and this will gave us the ability to retaliate and to destroy instalations at the Turkish deep land. I wish some amount of brain to get inside to the empty heads of Greek politicians.
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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July 3 2008, 5:42 PM
And Kh-101s cost much more than Klub missiles, Russia cant afford taking out a tank bunker with a $5-10 million dollar missile. I hope you didnt miss the news that Ochakov is going to be scrapped
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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July 5 2008, 12:08 PM
Are you joking ? Tomahawk s price is maximum 2 million dollars. How do you know that Kh-101 is so expensive? Also I never said that you should boost a ship whith hundreds of kh-101 but with one way or another a dozen of these cruise missiles will give great advandage to few large vessels like the remeining Kirovs. Where did you read that Ocakov will finally be scrapped?
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Re: Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
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July 5 2008, 4:52 PM
Kh-101s cost was stated to be in "millions", at least for the first batch, the tomahawk costs 2 mil. because there are a crap load of them.
Ochakov will apperently be transfered to Novorosiysk for scrap, the work to be done was too much and no shipyard wanted to take part. It was a pet project of someone who is not in office anymore and Vysotskiy put a stop to it.
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Current Topic - Ochakov could become the flagman of the Black Sea Fleet
As for the Kh-101 the best solution it will be to operate as a common weapon for both airforce and navy but I have no information about using Kh-101 from naval platforms in the future.
