http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=57705&cid=24

What I want to know is if they are describing the T-95 which should be in the final development stages. They say it will be part of a satellite network(GLONASS), it will be able to recieve info from scout planes and survey satellites. New fire control which will let the commander and the gunner find the targets in thermal, infrared and radiolocation modes. The crew will be situated in the hull compartment and the gun will be detached, with an autoloader.

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If they can do that, then they'll be where the US was 5 years ago. Great job.




Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

india, LMAO !!!!! a nation which hasnt reverse engineers or built single tank will help russia,

Would that realy be whise, I mean ... just look at how long it took the indians to develop there last tank & what came out at the end

lol, is that why the US copied the BTR, BRDM and more recently the BMP? US has neglected putting enough money into the tank sector, biggest improvement the Abrams saw was the TUSK upgraded which slapped some ERA tiles on the side with a new thermal imager. MBT wise the US is the one thats falling behind everyday, the FCS program just got a hard reality check and all it put out so far was an updated howitzer.

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Of course, Filin, Russiam wonder weapons will now have computers and GPS capability. That truly is amazing. The US is so far behind. This reminds me of your Soviet Afghan victory thread. What next? The truth about the Soviet Space program and how it beat the US to the moon?

Look, I'm not denigrating Soviet weapons, but the description of this "supertank" hardly sounds all that spectacular.




Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

Russia obviously needs money from India because their R&D budget sucks big
time.

lol, is that why the US copied the BTR, BRDM and more recently the BMP

How exactly have the US copied these vehicles? What a load of crap.

Which vehicle is the copied BTR? The closest I can come up with is the Stryker, which is a vehicle based on a long line of piranha multi-wheeled armoured vehicles. Or is it a copy because it too is an 8 wheeled APC with a HMG armament?

I can't think of a single US vehicle that is even remotely close to the BRDM. The BRDM is designed as recon vehicle - for the same role the US has over the years used M-41s, Sheridans and Bradleys - none of which are remotely similar to a BRDM. If you want to claim that MRAPs are a copy of the BRDMs again then you are truly delusional.

With the BMP you get closest, but there the US copied the idea, not the vehicle. The US's answer to the BMP was the Bradley, which is nothing like the BMP. The BMP has a 1 man turret with a 73mm gun, the commander mounted in the hull, centre rear seating, no rear ramp and weighed 13 tonne. The Bradley has a two man turret with 25mm autocannon, commander in the turret, a rear ramp, and weighed 25 tonne. Hardly a copy.

Oddly enough, when designers need to solve the same problems, they come up with similar designs - shock horror!

- Sarge

M1117



BRDM-2



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Wow they look so similar



































NOT..

Hey, they both have 4 wheels and a machine gun turret on top. That makes the US m117 a direct copy of the Soviet vehicle.

How about this, Filin? Can we do a thread on how the US copied the revolutionary Tu-4? That story always fascinates me. How the US captured some of these revolutionary Soviet aircraft, copied them down to the smallest detail, even the flaws, and foisted them off as their own, even giving them the fictitious designation of B-29 Superfortress to make people think they were designed and built by Boeing, rather than the Soviet products they are.

Can we make that our next thread, Filin?




Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

Pfft, the ASV (M1117) was developed from the earlier V100-V150 family of armoured vehicles which have been around since the early '60s. There have been dozens of vehicles developed from that design. The original V100 and BRDM were developed around the same time, although the BRDM was supposed to be a combat recon vehicle, while the V100 was designed as an internal security/convoy protection vehicle. Other than the fact that both vehicles have four wheels and are armed with a turreted weapon, what makes them the same? It's not like the US copied the extra wheels that the BRDM drops down for extra cross country performance is it, which would probably feature on any 'copy'.

Incidentally, the turret on that M1117, with both a Mk-19 and a 0.50 cal, is extremely good fun to shoot. Not a bad bit of kit at all.

- Sarge

filin is beyond stupid , MikePapa why do you let these little kids run around and making these crap topics , its fun for a while but it just gets annoying.

Unfortunately, 5th, even the intellectually impaired are entitled to an opinion and to voice it here. Freedom was never meant to be easy.




Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

Unfortunately 5thdumbas- seems to avoid the question of where he served for 25 years, enlighten all of us here.

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What I do or did in my life is non of anyone in the internet's buisness and much less a retard like yourself , I care less of what you do or think and I already know that you know very little not only about military but about basic human knowledge.

Dumbas- dont brag or back up your statements by saying "I served bla bla bla" if you dont want to give details, your just full of crap like I thought.

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Quote: india, LMAO !!!!! a nation which hasnt reverse engineers or built single tank will help russia,

And this coming from a person who's country is famous for painting made in Pakistan on Chinese weaponry

back to the actual topic, Janes Defense Weekly has a new article this week on the new Russian tank where Sergey Mayev, Director General of the Russian state defence procurement talks about the thing already existing in prototype and that series procurement will begin after 2010. He also states that the thing will in fact field a brand new 152mm gun. Nothing in NATO currently like it....

Fact is it already exists and fact is they just dont want to show it to us plebeians right now.

Who needs to pay for Janes when those news were in rian a few weeks back

So is this a different design or are they just looking to export production into India like with the T-90S?

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If it is China the US would be more worried, but India properly would not lose sleep over this

Anyway does the new 152mm gun have a high muzzle velocity or low like the 125 mm 2A46 series smoothbore gun

Dumbas- dont brag or back up your statements by saying "I served bla bla bla" if you dont want to give details, your just full of crap like I thought.

If you say so , I really don't care , you obviusly know everything thats why everybody always agrees with you, oh wait..

>>>So is this a different design or are they just looking to export production into India like with the T-90S?<<

Actually the Russian T-90M and the Indian T-90S is the same tank. Thats one of the reasons why the follow-on Negotiations took so long.

The 152mm is a high velocity gun .. Force India has that it will be an Unmanned turret with a modular design.



R.K. Laxman, India's renowned cartoonist, honours the hardy & humble Indian Jawan

AKA KRONICFEVER

we dont have specs on velocity so that is all speculation but there have been reports that one of the design goals was to come up with a gun that can fire gun-launched versions of the Kornet missile very quickly. I dont think you need particularly hugh velocities for that.

Firstly the M1117 you posted is derived from the Cadillac Gage Commando (V-100/150) an 4x4 amphibious APC's, which were in service from 1963...same time as BRDM-2. The Cadillac's was in the late 50's in its design stages. Please explain how that is a copy ??? ??? ???






ooopss this was already mentioned by Sarge

BRDM-2 entered service 1 year earlier, and I hate to be the one to break it to you but there were US spies around Soviet engineers at that time.

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You don't give up do you Filin - you are still speaking crap. It entered service a year ealier, so that makes it a copy? I still ask, besides the fact that they both have four wheels and entered service around the same time what makes the BRDM and V100 similar? The BRDM is a dedicated recon vehicle that can carry no exta passegers, has 4 extra drop down wheels to give it better cross country mobility, and a self protection HMG. The V-100 was a multi-role armoured vehicles used for RASO and convoy protection, is 50% heavier, can carry extra passengers, can carry a range of turreted armament, and has no extra drop down wheels.

Why would the US copy the BRDM? For the same role they used M-41 light tanks, then Sheridan light tanks, then M-3 Bradleys, or the ubiqitous M-113. The US liked tracks for force recon vehicles, not wheels (why would you make you recon vehicles less mobile than your tanks and IFVs?). Why copy an inferior vehicle?

I dare say those US spies had a lot more interesting things to spy on than a 7 tonne armoured scout car design that was never particularly successful, and had no role in the US Army.

Personally, I think the BRDM copied the 1940's British Humber Armoured Car.



They're both 7 ton, four wheeled recon vehicles with a turreted MG, so they must be copied right?

Get your hand off it.

- Sarge

Smart car, smart computer and now smart tank...lolzzz...do you think russian need some smart soldiers...

@GUARDS- You may have 25 years experience in military, but please dont say that posters with zero military background cannot comment. Doesnt go right with the image you should have.

Regarding the topic, Russian tanks are good in their own class, Russians traditionally depended on a low silhoutte whereas the US/NATO sacrificed that for more armour. T-90 is a good enough tank, tank for tank it can stand against the US' best armour.

Regarding this "smart tank"; well until and unless the specifics come out, how can you say the tank is junk?




colours of Kaziranga

Sarge dont make me laugh, a vehicle that came out a year later with almost the same dimensions, just with a little more protection and ended up being used as a multipurpose carrier just like BRDM.

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You're a bloody joke filin. You have absolutely no evidence the design of the V100 is a copy of the BRDM whatsoever. If your wikipedia search of both vehicles hadn't turned up that the BRDM was in service a year or two before the V100 you'd have to come up with some other petty reason to try to get yourself out of your hole.

Your evidence that the V100 is a copy of the BRDM is:
They both look the same
The V100 came out a year later

Anything else to add? I don't think you'd convince a jury with that one.

I am still interested though - in your original post you said the USA copied the BTR, BRDM and the BMP. Which US vehicle is copied off the BTR? Which US vehicle is a copy of the BMP? I will wait for you to do a wikipedia search first, so don't worry...

- Sarge

Sorry buddy but I dont use wikipedia, legion and warfare is my evidence. I dont think you understand what a copying is, or you are just oblivious to the facts. A vehicle doesnt have to be identical yet it still could have borrowed heavily from another design, look at what both vehicles ended up being used as, despite their capabilities being off beat.

If you want me to tell you which US designs copied the BMP than you are the joke here.

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>>>we dont have specs on velocity so that is all speculation but there have been reports that one of the design goals was to come up with a gun that can fire gun-launched versions of the Kornet missile very quickly. I dont think you need particularly hugh velocities for that<<

The Speculative specs on this JV are from an Indian Magazine called FORCE. Ill scan the article .. THe Source is not the most reliable but they do get somestuff right sometimes



R.K. Laxman, India's renowned cartoonist, honours the hardy & humble Indian Jawan

AKA KRONICFEVER

No, a copy would imply trying to reproduce the same thing without doing the work to design it yourself. Just looking at something and going 'that's a good idea', and then going away and desinging something yourself is not a copy.

That still doesn't take away from the fact there is no evidence that the V-100 borrowed anything from the BRDM. They were designed and used for different roles, have different dseign features, and have little in common besides the fact tha they are both 4 wheeled armoured vehicles designed for high cross country performance.

Trying to say the Bradley is a copy of the BMP is wrong too, as I said earlier. The US copied the idea of an IFV, they didn't copy the BMP. The BMP reflects soviet design philosiphies, the Bradley reflects American design philosophies. As I said 'The BMP has a 1 man turret with a 73mm gun, the commander mounted in the hull, centre rear seating, no rear ramp, terribly cramped crew compartment, and weighed 13 tonne. The Bradley has a two man turret with 25mm autocannon, commander in the turret, a rear ramp, enough room in the back, and weighed 25 tonne. Hardly a copy.'

Calling the Bradley a copy of the BMP is like calling the T-90 a copy of the Abrams, because they are both designed to be tanks.

I's still interested though, what's the American copy of the BTR?

- Sarge

Then tell me, Filin, I'm not as smart as Sarge and clearly not as smart as you because I just don't see it.





Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

Russia Touts Secret Super Tank
by James Dunnigan
July 24, 2008
Discussion Board on this DLS topic
Russian media (mostly state controlled these days) are running stories of a new "super-tank" being developed. No details given, just lots of superlatives. Mentioned was the Uralvagonzavod tank factory, which is known to be developing a "T-95" tank (again, no details). All that is being written about the super-tank is that it can move at a top speed of 60 kilometers an hour, has facilities that enable the crew to stay in the tank for 24 hours at a time, and possesses the ability to destroy any existing tank, while itself having unique protection (this apparently means "active defense" in the form of small missiles that intercept incoming anti-tank missiles, as well as explosive reactive armor).

Currently, the most modern tank Russia has is about 300 relatively new T-90s. The T-90 is a highly evolved T-72. Originally, the T-90 was created as a fall-back design. The T-80 was supposed to be the successor to the T-72. But like the T-62 and T-64 before it, the T-80 didn't quite work out as planned. So the T-72, with a much improved turret and all manner of gadgets, was trotted out as the T-90. Weighting 47 tons, it's 23 feet long, 11 feet wide and 7.5 feet high. Same package, better contents. And with well trained crews, it could be deadly.

The rest of the 20,000 tanks in the Russian army are T-72s and T-80s. Both are mainly target practice for Western tanks (M-1, Leopard, Challenger, Leclerc). The T-90 is a bit better, but the "T-95" will remain a mystery until it actually shows up. Russia plans to replace most of those T-72s and T-80s with T-90s and T-95s, by 2025. After that, the new T-95 super-tank would start replacing the T-90. Or something like that. It appears that the T-95 won't start showing up for another 5-10 years

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/200872423347.asp




Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

Russia Touts Secret Super Tank
by James Dunnigan
July 24, 2008
Discussion Board on this DLS topic
Russian media (mostly state controlled these days) are running stories of a new "super-tank" being developed. No details given, just lots of superlatives. Mentioned was the Uralvagonzavod tank factory, which is known to be developing a "T-95" tank (again, no details). All that is being written about the super-tank is that it can move at a top speed of 60 kilometers an hour, has facilities that enable the crew to stay in the tank for 24 hours at a time, and possesses the ability to destroy any existing tank, while itself having unique protection (this apparently means "active defense" in the form of small missiles that intercept incoming anti-tank missiles, as well as explosive reactive armor).

Currently, the most modern tank Russia has is about 300 relatively new T-90s. The T-90 is a highly evolved T-72. Originally, the T-90 was created as a fall-back design. The T-80 was supposed to be the successor to the T-72. But like the T-62 and T-64 before it, the T-80 didn't quite work out as planned. So the T-72, with a much improved turret and all manner of gadgets, was trotted out as the T-90. Weighting 47 tons, it's 23 feet long, 11 feet wide and 7.5 feet high. Same package, better contents. And with well trained crews, it could be deadly.

The rest of the 20,000 tanks in the Russian army are T-72s and T-80s. Both are mainly target practice for Western tanks (M-1, Leopard, Challenger, Leclerc). The T-90 is a bit better, but the "T-95" will remain a mystery until it actually shows up. Russia plans to replace most of those T-72s and T-80s with T-90s and T-95s, by 2025. After that, the new T-95 super-tank would start replacing the T-90. Or something like that. It appears that the T-95 won't start showing up for another 5-10 years

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/200872423347.asp




Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

the russians sure know how to make money from willing clients