http://newsru.com/russia/01jul2009/tanki.html

russian tanks were always crap anyway

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Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

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no....only 2000.....

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We had 60,000 in 1991.

This was stated last year, we only need 100 T-90s to take care of the chicoms anyway.

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"A navy doesn't get built in 2 years. If we want to have a new navy by 2050, then we should have started yesterday." Vysotskiy

English language article here

http://www.mosnews.com/military/2009/07/01/rutanked/

I'm sure many poorer African or certain countries would love to get their hands on those tanks. Are they going straight to the scrap yard? I personally wouldn't mind owning a T-90.

It's obviously good for modernization, there are still 7,500 Pre T-72 tanks in service .... Not to mention 9,700 T-72's and 4,500 T-80's ....

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"deeds, not words"

If Russia can maintain a high tech next gen tank effective/comparable with most Western MBT's, there is no need for such huge amounts. Smaller numbers would save money while still getting bang for their buck.

I can only imagine how much it cost to maintain a fleet of 60k MBT's....

Although I think 2k may be a little for Russia, given potential threats at their borders. 5-6k would be an ideal amount IMO.

Don't forget they have something like 13,000 BMP-3 and IIRC another 10,000+ BTR's.

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"deeds, not words"

quote
"I'm sure many poorer African or certain countries would love to get their hands on those tanks. Are they going straight to the scrap yard? I personally wouldn't mind owning a T-90."

like india, no ?

This is actually a good idea 7000 pre T-72 tanks that won't do anything against the likes of modern western Armour is just eating resources that could go to modernizing the tanks that still has hope.

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While considering their situation in 1991, 2000 does seem like a pittance.



But with their GDP today, the general economic situation, and money woes everywhere I can certainly understand wanting to gut the "old" stuff to free up bank for the most modern and capable of the fleet.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of that 90% was in disrepair.




"Korea has not been the only battle ground since the end of the Second World War. Men have fought and died in Malaya, in Greece, in the Philippines, in Algeria and Cuba, and Cyprus and almost continuously on the Indo-Chinese Peninsula. No nuclear weapons have been fired. No massive nuclear retaliation has been considered appropriate. This is another type of war, new in its intensity, ancient in its origin--war by guerrillas, subversives, insurgents, assassins, war by ambush instead of by combat; by infiltration, instead of aggression, seeking victory by eroding and exhausting the enemy instead of engaging him. It is a form of warfare uniquely adapted to what has been strangely called 'wars of liberation,' to undermine the efforts of new and poor countries to maintain the freedom that they have finally achieved. It preys on economic unrest and ethnic conflicts. It requires in those situations where we must counter it, and these are the kinds of challenges that will be before us in the next decade if freedom is to be saved, a whole new kind of strategy, a wholly different kind of force, and therefore a new and wholly different kind of military training."-President Kennedy's Address at Graduation Exercises of the U.S. Military Academy, 1962
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"The reason I'll be released is the same reason you think I'll be convicted. I do rub shoulders with some of the most vile, sadistic men calling themselves leaders today. But some of these men are the enemies of your enemies. And while the biggest arms dealer in the world is your boss - the President of the United States, who ships more merchandise in a day than I do in a year - sometimes it's embarrassing to have his fingerprints on the guns. Sometimes he needs a freelancer like me to supply forces he can't be seen supplying. So. You call me evil, but unfortunately for you, I'm a necessary evil."-Yuri Orlov, Lord of War
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"Of all the weapons in the vast soviet arsenal, nothing was more profitable than Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947. More commonly known as the AK-47, or Kalashnikov. It's the world's most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound amalgamation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it; and they do. The Soviets put the gun on a coin. Mozambique put it on their flag. Since the end of the Cold War, the Kalashnikov has become the Russian people's greatest export. After that comes vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists. One thing is for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars."-Yuri Orlov, Lord of War
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Older tanks, while useless against Western european armys, can still do a good job with Russia's other enemies.

Example, T-90/72BM is easily matcheable to Caucasus enemies like Georgian, Turks or Azerbayjani. T-90 and T-80UD is good match for PLA armor.

Few of older tanks should be sent for border defense rather than scrap.

STFU, darkie. They're scrapping these older tanks because even the Chechens who has no outside support, no heavy heavy and no organization destroyed a sh!tload of them.

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I feed my blonde lots of char sue.

Hizbullah an organisations of losers smacked many superb merkava so what?

Some facts about the tank forces of major armies:

USA has some 6000~7000 Abrams tanks in service.

China has 7000~8000 tanks,almost half are upgrated type-59...

Indian army has 5000 tanks,most of them old T-72 and vijianta.



My conclusion is that Russia could do very well with 2.000 tanks as far as they`re T-90M and T-95
with good trained crews and excellent ammo.Behind those 2000 tanks there will be thousants of
BMP-3 that can engage armor and over their heads many Su-25 and Su-34.Not bad at all.

All those numbers are still in transition, US will start downsizing its tank force in the next 5 years.

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"A navy doesn't get built in 2 years. If we want to have a new navy by 2050, then we should have started yesterday." Vysotskiy

I don't think that Russia needs tanks or BMP-3s. The best option is to lease a dozen of Swiss guards from the Pope... That 's the logic of Medvedev

--My conclusion is that Russia could do very well with 2.000 tanks as far as they`re T-90M and T-95
with good trained crews and excellent ammo.Behind those 2000 tanks there will be thousants of
BMP-3 that can engage armor and over their heads many Su-25 and Su-34.Not bad at all.--

Like some 30 Su-25 and 25 Su-34...so many of them...

Can someone find those projected figures about RuAF in 15-20 years. As I remember it would consist of about 350 aircrafts.

Old tanks are excellent as moving bunkers to fight against infantry and are usable against thin armoured vehicles. Conservation is the answer.

No ur totally wrong,Russia is planning to have 200 Su-34 by 2020 u have to add Pak-Fa,some upgrated
Flankers,,Su-25.

Only their fighters and bombers will be 500~600+.Add transport and strategic bombers...

I wish they will, but I doubt...

Has Russia taken on a new Defense white paper with this decision? In the past, Russia relied on sheer numbers as opposed to high tech/advanced training.

With lower numbers, they will need to train their tank crews to Western standards given the fact that they will be losing the capability of overpowering a potential enemy with numbers.

so bye bye world domination plans, welcome balance politics?

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Russians knew that they`re not Soviet Union with the huge army,i think they try
to have a more reliable army.

They have 300 MiG-29 with 70% being unable to fly...

They have on paper 20.000 tanks while the active number is 6.500 most being T-72.

MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti military commentator Ilya Kramnik) - Russia is currently undergoing a controversial military reform. The entirely new troop structure and tables of organization are being hotly debated. Recent media reports concerning planned tank force reductions have triggered various comments, including panicky predictions.

Media articles quoting Interfax reports involving an anonymous Defense Ministry source say the tank force will be reduced more than ten-fold, namely, from over 20,000 tanks to just 2,000 tanks. The news has sparked off a heated debate.

However, all sensational aspects disappear if we study the situation more closely. Although the tank force will be reduced and overhauled substantially, the reform does not envision ten-fold cuts.

At present the Russian Army has about 22,000 tanks, including more than 15,000 at storehouses. This makes up for just over 6,000 combat-ready tanks. Permanent readiness units have between 1,000 and 1,500 tanks.

In the next ten years, army divisions will be replaced with permanent readiness brigades and battalions operating 2,000 to 2,300 combat-ready main battle tanks whose number will increase somewhat. Training units will have several hundred more tanks. Another 3,000-4,000 tanks will remain at storehouses. Consequently, the Russian Army will have a total of 6,000 to 7,000 tanks.

Although the Russian tank force will be reduced three-fold, the specifications of operational tanks, the qualitative and quantitative gap between Russia and its theoretical enemies and the reform's long-term effect on national defense capability remain unclear.

The Russian industrial situation makes it possible to clarify the first aspect. The T-90 main battle tank, a modified version of the T-72 tank, is currently being manufactured for the Russian Army. The T-72 modernization program will bring these tanks up to the current standard. As a result, T-64 and T-80 tanks featuring numerous Ukrainian-made components will have to be scrapped.

The T-72 and its successor, the T-90, will probably form the mainstay of the Russian tank force. Production of the T-95 tank, due to be unveiled in 2009, could be launched in the next two or three years.

But how will Russia's tank force compare with those of neighboring countries? Virtually all major powers plan to reduce their tank units many times over.

NATO forces in Europe will retain about 2,000 combat-ready tanks and will store another 2,000 by 2020.

China will have about 4,000 to 5,000 tanks, including 2,000 modern tanks, by 2020. Although the Russian tank force will be dwarfed by those of its two most powerful neighbors, NATO and China, it is highly unlikely that Moscow will have to simultaneously fight both of them. Such a hypothetical conflict would inevitably escalate into a nuclear war. Consequently, the role played by tank units would diminish greatly.

Although anti-tank weapons are being improved all the time, tanks still dominate the battlefield due to their firepower, mobility and thick armor. Tanks remain a vital asset enhancing the flexibility, mobility and firepower of army units during local conflicts.

The opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20090703/155424380.html

Anyone have any idea about which variety would be retired early...The t-72's or t-80's??

I mean the moderately upgraded t-72's with optical and fire control upgrades.

Peace comes not from the absence of trouble but from presence of god........

javascript:FTxt('')

We had 60,000 in 1991.


it was enough for conquering all the europe

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FAAKHER E CHAAMB

Sell them to China for scap iron. The Chinese need steel like crazy to build. The days of the Cold War are over with.

"
My conclusion is that Russia could do very well with 2.000 tanks as far as they`re T-90M and T-95
with good trained crews and excellent ammo "

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Pipe dream.. Russia currently only operate less than 500 T90s according to most official sources (which is still alot)... and for good trained crew and excellent ammo.. doesnt not compute with the current russian financial situation...


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No Matter Who Wins, our troops are always in Good Hands!

There are still 1400 active T-80s in service, which on its own is a hell of a force considering it can go up against the 2A4s without a problem. warfare.r is pretty accurate on their numbers, and they state that only ~2900 T-72/80/90s are in active service. Take into consideration the retirement of older T-72/80s and there is nothing out of ordinary with those numbers.

The T-95 is bound to show up either this or next year, which should be superior to anything in NATO stock.

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"A navy doesn't get built in 2 years. If we want to have a new navy by 2050, then we should have started yesterday." Vysotskiy

however, i do think is a great idea that Russians rethink their strategy and aim for quality instead of quantity....


__________________________________________
No Matter Who Wins, our troops are always in Good Hands!

I think you will probably see the T-80 family slowly sacrificed in favor of the T-72/T-90 line.

So basically, ...

2010 - 2015 ... Continued priority in T-90 production, and a respectable number of T-72B's being converted to the BM standard, small scale T-95 production (two dozen at most)...

2015 - 2020 ... Continued T-90 production in a upgraded form, although serious R&D into a cost effective T-90 successor, we will also probably see a more substantial modernization program for Russia's remaining T-72's and first gen T-90's, perhaps involving a new turret being added to the chassis ... there will probably be no T-95 production during this timeframe.

... and BTW, where are some of you guys getting these numbers for Russian BMP-3 production? BMP-3's fielded are still fairly small by a good degree, and we will probably still see the BMP-2 in service post 2020. Thats alright though, the BMP-2M is still comparable to western IFV's outside of the newest of the new (ala the German Puma)

I think to a degree the Russian Army see's converting MT-LBs into IFV's and upgrading BMP-2's as a good alternative to costly BMP-3 production.

If the Greek order for 1000 BMP-3s goes through, then the production line will be busy for years to come. Ironically the Russian army would have been better off without the order. If the production of BMPs slowed down then it would make Kremlin sign more orders for the Russian army, if the production line remains busy then they will be reluctant to place any large orders.

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"A navy doesn't get built in 2 years. If we want to have a new navy by 2050, then we should have started yesterday." Vysotskiy

Russia needs no more than 3000 tanks.
here is no country of the world that pose thread to Russia.

minor anti-terrorism campaigns should be taken care by special forces.

nuclear arsenal of Russia is enough to vaporize the whole globe and since Russia has no global intervention dogma, seems like a good idea to scrap most of them.

500 000 professional highly trained soldiers is more than enough to cover all external and internal threads Russia faces.

nor Russia needs airplane carriers or any other silly exhibitionist equipment.

50 nuclear submarines are enough to launch annihilating counter measures to any nation that is silly to attack Russia.



the eastern yunnan eraser.

upgraded BMP-2's are superior to the BMP-3 in any of its Russian modifications. The UAE has currently signed up a German company to gut, redesign the interior and rebuild all their BMP-3's into something entirely new. Those vehicles will leave their BMP-3's light years ahead of any BMP-2 mod so far unveiled, but they really wont be Russian vehicles anymore save for the turret.

The BMP-3 was never meant as BMP-2 replacement. When it became clear that upgrades to the BMP-2 would result in its losing its ability to swim they started work on the BMP-3.

The Russian army is procuring 40-42 BMP-3's a year, none with thermal imagers. By now about 300 should be in service.

So far they have only bought the monkey model. It should be noted that precisely ZERO upgraded BMP-2's with TI's have been shown to be in service too.

It should be noted that none of the latest Chinese IFV's built for the PLA have thermal imagers either. TI's are only standard issue in the West. Russia and China still cant afford to install them on every vehicle.

Didnt they just sign a new memorandum with thales about TIs in Nizhniy Novgorod?

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"A navy doesn't get built in 2 years. If we want to have a new navy by 2050, then we should have started yesterday." Vysotskiy

yes but there is no reason to believe those will be installed on anything in particular. Most are meant for export.

About time they make the thermal sights cheaper.

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"A navy doesn't get built in 2 years. If we want to have a new navy by 2050, then we should have started yesterday." Vysotskiy