Australian women in military could fight on the front line
By Michael HarveyHerald SunAugust 22, 2009 12:01am+-PrintEmailShare
Front foot ... a study will work out the physical requirements needed to be "fighting fit". Picture: Australian Defence Force
Women could soon fight on front line
Physical strength could decide roles
Unfit personnel kept out of strength roles
Herald Sun: Aussies in Afghanistan
AUSTRALIAN women are moving closer to fighting alongside men on the deadly front line.
Physical strength - not gender - could determine who does what in the military.
A new scientific study will work out precisely the physical requirements needed to be "fighting fit" for all defence jobs, irrespective of gender, the Herald Sun reports.
The work will help ensure overweight and unfit military personnel are kept out of jobs for which they lack necessary strength and endurance.
Eventually, it could set the scene for a more momentous decision - whether to lift gender-based restrictions on the most dangerous close-range combat roles.
Defence Personnel Minister Greg Combet announced a new $2.5 million Centre of Expertise, involving the Defence Science and Technology Organisation and the University of Wollongong.
Related Coverage
Herald Sun: Aussies in Afghanistan
Your Say
I'm sorry, I totally support gender quality but how many females are going to be able to carry and operate (including the carrying the necessary ammunition for an f88 GLA let al...
(Read More)
AJ of Darwin
In its first 3 1/2 years, it will assess physical requirements of army service and then move on to the navy and air force.
"This work being undertaken will help further inform the ADF about the suitability of all people, regardless of gender, age or rank, to serve in positions throughout the ADF," Mr Combet said.
"It is about better understanding what physical ability is required for these positions.
"The Government will consider the results upon completion."
Mr Combet hopes benefits will include lower health care and compensation costs, as a result of fewer work-related injuries.
Women comprise about 13 per cent of the Australian Defence Force, with some already in combat roles where they can "kill at a distance".
Women are eligible to serve in 92 per cent of defence employment categories, but are still excluded from army roles where mortal combat could be expected daily, such as infantry, artillery and combat engineers.
Australian Defence Association executive director Neil James said women were already on the front line where, occasionally, they could be required to kill enemy soldiers.
"But the reason why they are restricted from certain combat roles is because it would result in a disproportionate number of female casualties," he said.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 22 2009, 12:47 AM
Nothing much is going to change. Females will still be barred from infantry, armour and field artillery. The combat engineers could go coed though, as STA and costruction engineers aleady have.
The fact remains that only a tiny percentage of females are physically strong enough to pass the physical tests required, and its simply not worth changing to allow that tiny percentage to have a crack.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 22 2009, 11:46 AM
Considering muslims have a ban on women soldiers, that's what the west should do to double up its man power over those of Islam. Anyway I'll take a western woman soldier over an Arab male soldier any day. Israel uses a lot of women soldiers and they work just fine.
---------------------------
De Gaulle to the General Koenig, Norman hero of Bir Hakeim: "Hear and tell your troops: the whole of France is watching you, you are our pride."[
This message has been edited by Eric_De_La_Legion on Aug 22, 2009 11:47 AM
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
[What about basic things like showers, taking a leak etc. ?]
In the Canadian Forces, women are allowed to serve in all Combat Arms trades (Infantry/Artillery/Engineer/Armour) and this was never an issue. The girls had their own showers/washrooms in garrison. In the field, they took a roll of toilet paper and sat behind a bush just like the guys did.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
The Muslims believe that Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was not crucified on the cross. They believe that he was raised to the heavens by the Lord and the Lord put someone (the Lord made him look like Jesus) in Jesus spot. There will be a day when Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) will return to this world. He will return not as a prophet but as a follower of Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him). Upon his arrival all the world's Christians will become Muslims. After some time the whole world will become Muslim for the Lord has said the whole world will taste Islam. I can't wait for that day. Indeed only someone so great can bring something so beautiful.
Long live the great Muslim people.
Long live the great Muslim nations.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 23 2009, 4:25 AM
RE: wow where did u get that?... u do know pakistan a "muslim" country has women serving as frontline combat pilots??....
Question
does france has a ban on thinking before u speak......
I don't think you can compare countries like Pakistan (democratic), Turkey (secular) and Syria (secular) to your average Arab country like Saudi Arabia. These are the types I'm referring to. I seriously have nothing against Pakistan; whether you agree with me or not, you have more in common with India than a hardcore Islamic Arab country.
---------------------------
De Gaulle to the General Koenig, Norman hero of Bir Hakeim: "Hear and tell your troops: the whole of France is watching you, you are our pride."[
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.
= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 23 2009, 4:58 AM
I don't think you can compare countries like Pakistan (democratic), Turkey (secular) and Syria (secular) to your average Arab country like Saudi Arabia.**************
RE: true BUT these women entered PAF as cadets under General Musharaf rule (dictatorship)
*****; whether you agree with me or not, you have more in common with India than a hardcore Islamic Arab country. *******
RE: u see there is where is the problem is, u r confusing cultural practice with islamic practice.
saudi arabia is rule by a two faced monarchy that bans women from driving cars.
yes Islam says NO to monarchy and favours leadership based on merit, capability and fear of God. Similarly under Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) his first wife used to work (she was a business women) and drive camel/horse carts.
clearly islam isnt as restrictive as u think.
However, u can claim that Arab culture is backward and at times (mostly) retarded. I would have agreed with u 100%.
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 23 2009, 6:30 AM
^if you have greate knolige of your religion that does not mean your a fundamentalist to be fundamentalist is like talking out of your as$ about the religion you never read about thats what a fundamentalist is
This message has been edited by yasin22 on Aug 23, 2009 7:01 AM
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 23 2009, 6:31 AM
regardless i am pretty much against women serving front line service mainly due to thier inherit vunerability.
they would be more suited for second line or rear guard units... however as thunder correctly pointed they actually would be more suited to serve as pilots, also radar officers, intel, communications type roles would also be a better fit.
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
"PradoTLC)
regardless i am pretty much against women serving front line service mainly due to thier inherit vunerability".
I don't know where their combat record show this "vulnerability" as you claim, since they can be more resilient and as effiscient as men.
I am against this preconceiption, perhaps you weren't raised by strong women and have no idea but where i come from they survived 2 WW while being in the front line, either as nurse (My Gand mother) or in the French Resistance (My mother)...
So i know for a fact that women can and ARE just as good and no more vulnerable than men, unless you educate them thinking that they are just good for the kitchen and raising kids that is...
If you knew about European culture you'd know that traditionaly women were always closely related to combat culture, the Germans with the Walkiries, the Scandinavians with Freya and the Celts with the some related characters, Medb being one of them.
In the Gauls they initiated MEN to the art of sword combat as well as having invented metalurgy and developed some pretty efficient weapons like the Mae Bolga (if my memory doesn't fail me it should be the right spelling), a spear which reaped the victim guts when retreived after striking.
In Britain, the Queen Boudica gave a fair account of herslef against the Romans...
So this idea of yours that they are vulnerable is not in our culture initialy, it came with Christanity which is as a matter of FACT a Mediterranean culture, NOT Celtic, Germanic or Nordic.
Elaine Mordeaux, a French Resistance commander in WW2, led a unit of two hundred guerrillas, about a third of them were women.
(see also Women Warriors Around the World)#
http://www.lothene.demon.co.uk/others/women20.html
Something else:
For front line Squadrons, there NO more possible front line situations than flying Recce and Close Air Support for ground troops (straffing and bombing) missions over ennemy territory; the last addition to the PAF have lots of war mission on Mirage F-1 CR to her tally and 1800 h to her logbook.
http://www.kewego.fr/video/iLyROoafYjmJ.html
She cano't be regarded as being "Vulnerable" by the AdA best specialists, one doesn't put vulnerable people at the command of a fighter jest in combat situations (Including Tchad, Tadjikistan and Afghanistan) and then in the National aerobatic team...
As for our first Female fighter pilot she was flying with one of the 2 top gun Air Defense squadron 2/2 Côte-d'Or at BA102 Dijon, not a place where vulnerability is regarded as acceptable either.
She was a fighter pilot at 24 and could take on most men in a2A combat, don't forget that the 1/2 and 2/2 are the only two Air Defense Squadron and that to get a spot there you need to be the BEST of your promotion.
If not you're not given the choice and have to settle for a Mirage 2000 C or Mirage F-1 Squadron, if not then to a Transport Squadron, this means she had to top the Air school results and this includes COMBAT capabilties.
I think your comments are the results of your culture, not rightful thinking based on knowlege of other's history...
= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.
= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm
This message has been edited by sampaix on Aug 23, 2009 7:56 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on Aug 23, 2009 7:42 AM This message has been edited by sampaix on Aug 23, 2009 7:19 AM
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.
= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 23 2009, 7:48 PM
[regardless i am pretty much against women serving front line service mainly due to thier inherit vunerability.]
What "inherit vulnerability"? If they can do the job, why not let them? If they can't do the job up to standard, they get flushed like any man who isn't up to standard.
I know some girls in the Infantry who can carry more, run farther, shoot straighter than some guys in Service Battalions.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.
= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 23 2009, 10:56 PM
@thunder + element7
like i said i dont like women seen in infantry roles, it is more of personal thing (doesnt have to a logic to it ). of course women have served in front lines in russia and in israel, i am aware of that.
when i refer to thier vunerability i am refering to rape and getting pregent. u going to send pregent woman to fight?... remember men cant get pregent as far as i know
@FN
since your men have bad reputation such as raping women and conducting lousy anti terrorist operations such as the one mumbai, it may not be a bad idea to send your women in.
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
[when i refer to thier vunerability i am refering to rape and getting pregent. u going to send pregent woman to fight?... remember men cant get pregent as far as i know]
Pregnant women in the combat arms obviously aren't in the front lines.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 24 2009, 6:57 AM
@prado- since your men are used to surrendering in battlefield why dont you send your sexy muslim women? It will be nice timepass for the Indian army to play with phuckistani women.
gee guys, you French dissappoint me. I thought French babes are among the most beautiful on earth.
colours of Kaziranga
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.
= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 24 2009, 11:28 AM
FN with your hidious looks you would be not allowed on the streets of pakistan.
dont worry about about our women i am sure one paki female fighter pilot can knock out 3 or 4 IAF planes before going down...
unless they plan to surrender like that last IAF baffoon who landed a fully armed Gnat on a PAF airbase in 1965
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.
= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 24 2009, 11:46 AM
@ Eric,
What about the UAE, which has just enrolled 4 women combat fighter pilots ?
You just give off these general sweeping statements, and as we see you being to take them back bit by bit by first claiming "secular" or "democratic countries" are exempt from your generalization against muslims.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 24 2009, 1:05 PM
@thunder- Italy or Israel has women soldiers who can look as stunning as models in civillian clothes
But the girl on the extreme left does have a plesant face.
@prado- Still obsessed with how men look? Does your wife know about your queer habits? Sorry mate, i play straight.
and regarding female soldiers from phuckistan- there is enough vacancy in Indian army for cooks who can use the chakla belan and entertain the Indian soldeirs.
Imagine 90,000 female phuckistani soldeirs surrendering to India in 1971 or 300 female soldiers surrendering to Taliban, those 300 female phuckistanis will provide wives to 75 taliban soldiers- going by sharia law of 4 wives per man.
colours of Kaziranga
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 24 2009, 4:24 PM
Providing they are trainedfor this and in the right squadron...************
RE: it makes many years to reach that level..... i know pakistan CCS (combat commander school which PAF equivalent of topgon) teach such skills... a handfull of pilots get the privilage to attend it.
but against indians anything goes
@FN
as usual u have nothing useful to contribute.keep living up to your reputation as useless poster
@ahmend
since when has this happened?.....
This message has been edited by PradoTLC on Aug 24, 2009 4:27 PM
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 24 2009, 4:38 PM
-What's your point? Do you not agree with the point that if they can do the job, let them?****************
RE: if they can get the job fine... but i not would like them to see front line duty unless they utterly have to...
not against women military, just cant stand women get blown to pieces... like i said it is a personal thing. i am sure u can did up tonnes of info on how women fought well in the past.then again those where desperate times..
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
Re: Australian women in military could fight on the front line
No score for this post
August 25 2009, 9:27 AM
have u seen your face ... u look like one
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
![[linked image]](http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7416/firmazm2fw1.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7388/25malvinas.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7613/heroest.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://www.defence.pk/gallery/data/647/medium/DSC00003_JPG.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/8664/hbombexplosion.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://vieuxtroyes.free.fr/t/histo/guilconq.JPG)
![[linked image]](http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/TLCPrado/st_women_army_batch.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/TLCPrado/Women_in_Army.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/TLCPrado/aw378if.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv81/Yasin23_1986/NEWSIG-3.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/sampaix/VirginieGuyot.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/sampaix/Mirage20005F1-2Cigognes2EN.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://i33.tinypic.com/o0qg0h.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/sampaix/FlyingGirls.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://www.geocities.com/coolfrankb/TANKS/PicLeclerc2.jpg)