In 65 war PAF combat strength were only 132 while IAF had about 18-20x 40 squadrons roughly around 800 and most of them superior next generation fighters/ground attack planes comparably to PAF.
PAF
F-86
Quote:The story of Pakistani F-86 starts when in 1955 US sold 120 of F-86-F40s to Pakistan Air Force. PAF had eight squadrons of F-86Fs on its order of battle which formed squadron no 5. 11, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19 making up a total of about 100 operational airctaft. of these 100 aircraft, 25 were equipped with Sidewinder air-to-air missiles..
F-104
Quote:Sqn Ldr Sadruddin and Flt Lt Middlecoat landed the first Starfighters at PAF Base Sargodha in 1962. In the following months, Pakistan inducted a total of 10 F-104A and two dual seat F-104B training aircraft in No 9 Squadron.
B-57
Quote:After the 1955 Pak-US agreement, the PAF received 26 Martin B-57s including 2 training versions, which formed two squadrons, Nos. 7 and 8, of No 31 Bomber Wing on 11 May 1960.
In total PAF had about 132 combat planes in 65 war.
IAF strength.
Quote:"The Chief of Indian Air Force could no longer ensure the safety of Indian air space. A well known Indian journalist, Mr Frank Moraes, in a talk from All-india radio, also admitted that IAF had suffered severe losses and it was no use hiding the fact and India should be prepared for more losses...."
Indonesian Herald
September 11, 1965.
Quote:Combat Over The Indian Subcontinent
"In September 1965 a festering border dispute between India and Pakistan erupted into full scale war. The Indian possessed the larger air force numerically, composed maily of British and French types- Hawker Hunter, Folland Gnat and Dassault Mystere fighters, Dassault Ouragon fighter-bombers and English electric Camnberra bombers. The smaller but highly trained Pakistan air force was equipped in large part with F-86F Sabers, plus a few F-104 Starfighters. Fighting lasted little more than two weeks, but during that time, Pakistan gained a definite ascendancy in the air.. It was the well proven Sabers that emerged with honors, being credited with all but five of the 36 victories claimed. The Indians claimed 73 victories - undoubtly a considerable overestimate - for an admitted loss of 35."
Quote:"One point particularly noted by military observers is that in their frist advances the Indians did not use air power effectively to support their troops. by contrast, the Pakistanis, with sophisticated timing, swooped in on Ambala airfield and destroyed some 25 Indian planes just after they had landed and were sitting on the ground out of fuel and powerless to escape (NOTE: PAF has not claimed any IAF aircraft during it's attacks on Ambala due to non-availability of concrete evidence of damage in night bombing.)"
"By the end of the week, in fact, it was clear that the Pakistanis were more than holding their own."
Everett G. Martin,
General Editor, Newsweek
September 20, 1965.
Quote:STRIKE AGAINST A BOMBER BASE
7 SEPTEMBER 1965
The painting shows 2 of the 5 Dhaka-based F-86 Sabres attacking the IAF bomber station at Kalaikunda. The Sabre pilots, quickly overcoming their initial surprise at finding so many bombers neatly lined up, wasted no time in making the best of it. Formation leader was Squadron Leader Shabbir H Syed with Flight Lieutenants Abdul Baseer, Tariq Habib, Abdul Haleem and Flying Officer Afzal Khan in his formation. In his memoirs written after the 1965 India-Pakistan War, Air Chief Marshal P C Lal, Chief of the Air Staff, IAF, conceded the losses suffered by the IAF during this daring attack. He wrote:"A sharp lesson ... was taught by the PAF in an attack on an IAF base near Kharagpur (Kalaikunda). In one raid that it mounted, it destroyed several Canberra bombers and Hunter fighters aircraft on the ground.
Quote:PATHAMKOT STRIKE
1705 HOURS, 6 SEPTEMBER 1965
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War. Tied escorts consisted of Wing Commander M G Tawab (later Air Marshal and air chief of Bangladesh Air Force) and Flight Lieutenant Arshad Sami while the strike elements were led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider with Flight Lieutenants M Akbar, Mazhar Abbas, Dilawar Hussain, Ghani Akbar and Flying Officers Arshad Chaudhry, Khalid Latif and Abbas Khattak (later Air Chief Marshal and CAS, PAF) in his formation.
^ after the attack in pathankot against IAF migs, none of the 14 Mig-21F-13 were seen ever again.
out of just few articles we have concluded that IAF lost 40 planes in air and about as many in ground and one could easily estimate IAF losses were well 100 planes in 65 war.
World record... First time in jet warfare history has anyone "surrendered" their plane in middle of a dogfight.
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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If you ever count the actual Attrition Rate of the 65 war it was something like 1:1.3 in the PAF favour. Dont forget that the Indian AF was also generating 4 times the sorties and running 8 times the number of Strike Missions (google this info..posted it manytimes off a paki website).
OHH and guess what your country still managed to get your arses kicked and thrown back across the border..
Not to mention that in 65 India was still smarting from the Chinese war. Alot of our Assets were FACING THEM and not to forget EAST PAKISTAN..
Then do you remmeber 1971? Let alone a spanking your country got buttfcuked then castrated losing 50% of your landmass.
Then in the 80s you got Siachen taken from you from under your nose. The Pakis lost any entire SSG battalion trying to re-take siachen only to get their arses handed to them.
Then in 1999 again got kicked back across the border.. Your country went with a begging bowl to every country including china only to be shown the door.
Now circa 2009.. Your country is in the gutter. Nato/America/Iran bombs your country freely. You have nearly a dozen Terrorist attacks a month in your country. The Taliban/Rebels control much of your territory. The north of your country is as good As Iraq or Afghanistan..And your country is Bankcrupt living off aid and left overs from the rest of the world. This ESPECIALLY includes your military
SO what the fcuk are you jumping up and down about? I suggest you go back to Stalking "Desi Girls" on the internet..
R.K. Laxman, India's renowned cartoonist, honours the hardy & humble Indian Jawan
AKA KRONICFEVER
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ouch koronic.. looks like my thread really hurt your fragile felling about IAF being buttphucked around.
lol IAF flew more sorties? so what? thats because you indians had more planes to conduct god knows what sorties other then takeoff and half-landing-crash because most of the time these hindu planes saw actions were when PAF were butt phucking them around.
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
This message has been edited by antiindian on Aug 26, 2009 9:20 PM
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It's easy to have loss ratio in your favor when you:
1. Limit sorties
2. Use defensive tactics like RAF in battle of britain or the Luftwaffe in the closing days of the air war over Germany.
3. Fight only when circumstances are in your favor.
The bottom line is India won ALL the wars. So losses of Aircraft are NOT PERTINENT.
If you look at the 1973 Yom Kippur war the IAF lost by far the most aircraft-mostly to Arab SAM's-but still WON THE WAR.
Typical Paki selective memory. At the end of the day India still TORE YOUR ASS..!!!
LOL
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india won all it's wars hahah hha what a retarded statement.. then again it is landos
1947 - pak ended up with 30% of kashmir.. considering pak army so badly equipped and large section of our army still being transfered india calls this a victory???? hahhah
1965 - PAF squarely beat the IAF roundly. there is no doubt there. the army fought the indians army to a stand still. overall it ended in a stalemate.
1971 - they won in one sector underexceptional circumstances, in the western sector the indians made little head way
1999 - kargil - US marine general zinni said it all "i persuaded the pakistanis to withdraw". tactically pakistan army gave india a bashing it hasnt forgot even today. pakistan soldiers were betting among them selves how many indians they were going kill today.
and for all those dotheads who "think" india "won" all it;s wars, the fact is Pakistani pilots and airmen, and infantry (and probably SSG) are still considered better than india's.
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
and people for get the defense budget.. pakistan is around USD 4 billion where as india is 12 billion plus... and yet they cannot confidently destroy us...
shows the lack of talent and skill the indian military via pakistan
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
point is some retarded people tended to compare pak-india conflict like the arab israeli types.in reality u cant even compare them. indians think they r some sort of israelis.
they r clearly deluded...
""""""""""""
1. Limit sorties
2. Use defensive tactics like RAF in battle of britain or the Luftwaffe in the closing days of the air war over Germany.
3. Fight only when circumstances are in your favor. """""""""""""
RE: clearly u have no idea what u r talking about... one of PAF first mission was to take out the vastly superior Mig-21, which they did. PAF was highly aggressive and active through out the war.
man your indian cock sucking it going to make u real jack ass in this forum
This message has been edited by PradoTLC on Aug 27, 2009 1:49 AM
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^^
True,, Pakistan is much more capable and stronger than all the nations of middle east put together,, still it got whacked ,,
Replace Israel with India in the Arab-Israel conflict,, result would be much worse for Arabs,,
-----------
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Reading the posts of the phuckis will make you think they are some sort of superpower, LOL!!!!!!!
They lost every war they fought with India and they come up with stupid theories like PAF was a success (which was not). Its like Germans bragging about how successful the blitzkrieg was even though they got whacked in WW2.
colours of Kaziranga
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india won all it's wars hahah hha what a retarded statement.. then again it is landos
1947 - pak ended up with 30% of kashmir.. considering pak army so badly equipped and large section of our army still being transfered india calls this a victory???? hahhah
1965 - PAF squarely beat the IAF roundly. there is no doubt there. the army fought the indians army to a stand still. overall it ended in a stalemate.
1971 - they won in one sector underexceptional circumstances, in the western sector the indians made little head way
1999 - kargil - US marine general zinni said it all "i persuaded the pakistanis to withdraw". tactically pakistan army gave india a bashing it hasnt forgot even today. pakistan soldiers were betting among them selves how many indians they were going kill today.
and for all those dotheads who "think" india "won" all it;s wars, the fact is Pakistani pilots and airmen, and infantry (and probably SSG) are still considered better than india's.
@ Prado,
Whatever you want to call it, facts is Indias gain in ONE war alone (1971) is more than equals to whatever minor "moral victories" that Pakistani had in all the other wars.
When PAF and Pakistani army had split Indian into 2, then you could start bragging about how you defeated them.
Until, it feels like empty talking.
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and talking to u retards makes me think that i am talking to a toothpaste...
the fact india can only beat us by out numbering us, out gunning us massively... like i said they lack talent
but i know u guys blinded anti muslim hate (brained washed by media) and therefore u side india. it is ok u r from lesser educational backgrounds,,
but the fact does remain PAF asss raped IAF. PAF has two aces (MM alam 9 kills, Syed Hatmi 5 kills) indian has none... it speaks for it;s self.
now go suck indians balls
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
India never really showed interest in invading or entirely controlling Pakistan, it was always the Pakistanis throwing the first stones while India simply retaliated. I'm sure if they had the motive they would have not quickly ended the wars or asked for a ceasefire.
When you brag on about how the Indian army lacks 'talent' compared to the superhuman brave Pakistanis, try looking at the bigger picture. You may have shot down more aircraft but what did that achieve? Nothing, you still lost the war. As time goes things such as land control, POWs, and national declarations are more important than some few jets.
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read weap paki pilot superority over these cow piss drinking, surrendering, lousy bombing, chicken **** that is known as IAF (indians afraid of flying. most of u indian cock suckers wont have the stomach to read below... muahhaha ahhaha
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"The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below." "They were really good, aggressive dogfighters and proficient in gunnery and air combat tactics. I was damned impressed. Those guys just lived and breathed flying."
(General (Retd.) Chuck Yeager (USAF), Book: Yeager, the Autobiography). General Chuck Yeager, famous USAF test pilot, on deputation in Pakistan as US Defense Representative. The PAF remains the only foreign air force in the world to have received Chuck Yeager's admiration - recommendation that the PAF is proud of.
"He was a formidable fellow and I was glad that he was Pakistani and not Egyptian" (Israel Air Force chief and ex-President Ezer Weizmen writing about PAF chief Nur Khan in his autobiography, On Eagles' Wings).
"As an air defense analyst, I am fully aware that the Pakistan Air Force ranks today as one of the best air forces in the world and that the PAF Combat Commanders' School (CCS) in Sargodha has been ranked as the best GCI/pilot and fighter tactics and weapons school in the world". As one senior US defense analyst commented to me in 1991, "it leaves Popgun (the US Naval Air Station in Miramar, California) far behind".
-Sergey Vekhov May 1993 issue (pages 46-47) of Airforces Monthly, reputable UK-based air defense magazine.
The PAF, although outnumbered by IAF (Indian Air Force), has at least one qualitative edge over its rival: Pilot Training. The calibre of Pakistani instructors is acknowledged by numerous air forces, and US Navy pilots considered them to be highly 'professional' during exercises flying off the USS Constellation (as co-pilots). -
"By all accounts the courage displayed by the Pakistan Air Force pilots is reminiscent of the bravery of the few young and dedicated pilots who saved this country from Nazi invaders in the critical Battle of Britain during the last war."
Patrick Seale, The Observer, London, September 12, 1965.
"Pakistan claims to have destroyed something like 1/3rd the Indian Air Force, and foreign observers, who are in a position to know say that Pakistani pilots have claimed even higher kills than this; but the Pakistani Air Force being scrupulously honest in evaluating these claims. They are crediting Pakistan Air Force only those killings that can be checked from other sources."
Roy Meloni, American Broadcasting Corporation September 15, 1965.
"There is a smell of death in the burning Pakistan sun. For it was here that India's attacking forces came to a dead stop. "During the night they threw in every reinforcement they could find. But wave after wave of attacks were repulsed by the Pakistanis" "India", said the London Daily Times, "is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by four and a half to one in population and three to one in size of armed forces."
"Iraqi pilot training came from three sources: France, Pakistan and the former Soviet Union. Lucky for us, Soviet training proved dominant, with their emphasis on rigid rules, strict command arrangements and standardized tactics. Coupled with this centralized approach, the Soviets were suspicious of non- Russians and disliked Arabs. The Iraqi students were taught to take off and land their aircrafts safely, but otherwise their training was so basic, so lacking in advanced tactics, as to be useless. There was however a wild card. Not all Iraqi training came from the Russians.
Iraqi pilots, were trained well by their French and Pakistani instructors. Pakistan has one of the best, most combat ready airforces in the world. They have to their neighbour to the east is huge, and the two nations, have a long history of hostilities. For Indian war planners, the Pakistan air Force is their worst fear. Pakistani pilots are respected throughout the world, especially the Islamic world, beause they know how to fly and fight
On one or two occasions, I had the opportunity to talk with Pakistani instructor pilots, who had served in Iraq. These discussions, didn't give me great cause to worry. The Russian domination of training prevented the Pakistanis from having any real influence on the Iraqi aircrew training program.
Still, there had to be a few Iraqi pilots, who had observed and listened to their mentors from France and Pakistan. It was those few, I was concerned about - the ones with great situational awareness and good eyesight, who had figured out how to effectively use their aircraft and its weapons to defend their nation."
(General Chuck Horner (retd) and Tom Clancey. General Chuck commanded the US and allied air assets during Desert shield and desert storm, and was responsible for the design and execution of one of the most devastating air campaigns in the history. He also served as Commander 9th Air Force, Commander US Central Command Air Forces, and Commander in chief, SpaceCom. Book: Every Man A Tiger).
"Another way in which the PAF satisfies this requirement is in the pursuit of excellence with regard to its combat echelons. Paradoxically, though, that pursuit is by its very nature an expensive procedure and there is a high wastage rate as pilots progress through the training system, with individuals being weeded out all the way along the line. The end result is felt to be well worth the expense involved, however, and personal observations have certainly convinced the author that the average PAF pilot is almost certainly possessed of superior skills when compared with, say, an average American pilot. As to those , who are rated above average, they compare favourably to the very best in a host of western air arms. Standard of accuracy appear comparable to those of the west and may surpass them, one F-6 pilot of No. 15 Squadron having recently put 20 out of 25 shells through a banner in four successive passes. The author can vouch for this having inspected the banner at Kamra and even more remarkably, the pilot responsible for this impressive shooting was a 'first tourist'."
(Lindsay Peacock. Journal: Air International, Vol 41. No 5)
"When we arrived in Pakistan in 1971, the political situation between the Pakistanis and Indians was really tense over Bangladesh, or East Pakistan, as it was known in those days, and Russia was backing India with tremendous amounts of new airplanes and tanks. The U.S. and China were backing the Pakistanis. My job was military advisor to the Pakistani air force, headed by Air Marshal Rahim Khan, who had been trained in Britain by the Royal Air Force, and was the first Pakistani pilot to exceed the speed of sound. He took me around to their different fighter groups and I met their pilots, who knew me and were really pleased that I was there. They had about five hundred airplanes, more than half of them Sabres and 104 Starfighters, a few B-57 bombers, and about a hundred Chinese MiG-19s. They were really good, aggressive dogfighters and proficient in gunnery and air combat tactics. I was damned impressed. Those guys just lived and breathed flying.
The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] asses in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war. The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial number, identified the components such as engines, rocket pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7 fighter-bomber and the MiG-21 J, their latest supersonic fighter. The Pakistani army would cart off these items for me, and when the war ended, it took two big American Air Force cargo lifters to carry all those parts back to the States for analysis by our intelligence division.
I didn't get involved in the actual combat because that would've been too touchy, but I did fly around and pick up shot-down Indian pilots and take them back to prisoner-of-war camps for questioning. I interviewed them about the equipment they had been flying and
the tactics their Soviet advisers taught them to use. I wore a flying suit all the time, and it was amusing when those Indians saw my name tag and asked, "Are you the Yeager who broke the sound barrier?" They couldn't believe I was in Pakistan or understand what I was doing there. I told them, "I'm the American Defense Representative here. That's what I'm doing."
The PAF remains the only foreign air force in the world to have received Chuck Yeager's admiration - a recommendation which the PAF is proud of. (Source: PIADS)
(General (Retd.) Chuck Yeager (USAF) , Book: Yeager, the Autobiography).
"The Partition of 1947 signalled the end of the British Empire in India, and the establishment of two independent states, India and Pakistan. They took opposite sides over Kashmir's struggle for independence in 1947-49, and although open war was averted, India lost 6000 men in the conflict. India annexed Kashmir in January 1957 and there followed a long period of tension with Pakistan. Armed clashes in the Rann of Kutch in western India during January 1965 and Pakistan's recruitment of a 'Free Kashmir' guerrilla army finally erupted into open warfare in August 1965.
The ground forces of the two countries appeared to be evenly matched, and their respective offensives (although involving approximately 6000 casualties on each side) were indecisive. The Pakistan Air Force, however, emerged with great credit from its conflict with the Indian Air Force, destroying 22 IAF aircraft in air-to-air combat for the loss of only eight of its own - a remarkable achievement considering that the PAF faced odds of nearly four to one. During the conflict India and Pakistan came under strong international pressure to end the war, and arms supplies to both sides were cut off by Britain and the US. A ceasefire imposed by the UN Security Council then reduced the conflict to a series of sporadic minor clashes, and the national leaders were persuaded to attend a peace conference at Tashkent in January 1966. Their decision to renounce the use of force finally ended the war."
(Anthoney Robinson, former staff of the RAF Museum, Hendon and now a free lance Military aviation writer . Book: Elite Forces Of The World)
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Combat Over The Indian Subcontinent:
"In September 1965 a festering border dispute between India and Pakistan erupted into full scale war. The Indian possessed the larger air force numerically, composed maily of British and French types- Hawker Hunter, Folland Gnat and Dassault Mystere fighters, Dassault Ouragon fighter-bombers and English electric Camnberra bombers. The smaller but highly trained Pakistan air force was equipped in large part with F-86F Sabers, plus a few F-104 Starfighters. Fighting lasted little more than two weeks, but during that time, Pakistan gained a definite ascendancy in the air.. It was the well proven Sabers that emerged with honors, being credited with all but five of the 36 victories claimed. The Indians claimed 73 victories - undoubtly a considerable overestimate - for an admitted loss of 35."
"This is the first definitive account of a relatively small but fascinating air arm, the Pakistan Air Force. Hitherto either casually studied or written up in propaganda fashion, the PAF has needed a detailed analysis of how a developing country with limited resources can nonetheless produce a first class air force. The Pakistan Fiza'ya (Pakistan Air Force) plays a role in the psyche of its nation unmatched by any air force in the world except that by the Israeli Air Force. The PAF's motto, loosely translated from the Persian, is 'Lord of All I Survey'. It calls itself "The Pride of the Nation', and it is exactly that. Much smaller than India in geographical size and population, Pakistan sees itself as a beleaguered state between India to the East and the Soviet Union/Afghanistan to the West. Since it can never match numbers with India, much in the same way as Israel cannot match numbers with the Arabs, it has always emphasized quality, and projected itself as the Gallant Few against the eastern hordes of many. The mystique of the air warrior, the last jousting knight, the only surviving gladiator on the field of modem war, has been effectively utilized by Pakistan as its symbol of defiance against vastly larger enemies. The PAF gets the best and the brightest of the country's young men, and it is given clear preference in the matter of equipment. In 1981, for example, Pakistan paid $1.2 billion for 40 F-16s. By comparison, the entire first five year (1982-87) FMS package from the United States totalled $1.6 billion, of which $0.5 billion was used to cover the shortfalls in the F-16 funding. In other words, virtually half of all military equipment purchased from the US during this period went on one single purchase of fighter aircraft for the PAF.
Had the US been willing to supply an Airborne Warning and Control System to Pakistan in the second package (1987-92), along with additional F-16s again the PAF would have gotten half or more of the total sum. Because the nation spends so much of its precious resources on the PAF, it expects a great deal in return. In 1965 the PAF delivered; in 1971, overtaken by circumstances outside of its control, it did not. This took much of the glint, glamour and shine off the PAF. But in the next eighteen years, 1972-90, by dint of solid hard work the PAF did much to restore its prestige."
(Pushpinder Singh, Ravi Rikhye, Peter Steinemann. Book: Fiza'ya: Psyche of the Pakistan Air Force.)
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Pakistan Air Force:
SARGHODA, situated 50 miles north of the famous textile city of Faisalabad in north central Pakistan, and within 150 miles of the Indian border, is the home of the Combat Commanders School which has earned it the reputation of the 'Top Gun' base of the Pakistan Air Force. It first came to prominence during the Indo-Pakistan Wars of 1965 and 1971 during which it provided a pivotal role in the air war with India. During the 1965 War S/L MM Alam became Pakistan's air ace. Flying the F-86, he shot down five Indian aircraft in one mission. Sarghoda was also a key target for the Indian Air Force during that time. In recognition of its efforts during these conflicts, Sarghoda has had the privilege of initially hosting all the new types of aircraft purchased by the air force, including the F-86, F-104, F-6, Mirage and F-16. The only exception being the F-7P. The base, under the command of its popular commander, Air Commodore Majeeb, is now the home of the No 38 Tactical Fighter Wing which comprises two squadrons 9 Griffins Squadron and 11 Arrows Squadron flying the F-16A and B, and the Combat Commanders School with two Squadrons, the Skybolts with the Mirage 5PA, and the Dashings with F-6s.
The school is under the command of G/C Riat, a veteran of the '71 Indian conflict during which he flew the F-86. The school and its instructors (which would also have a role to play in the event of a war) is run on a very similar infrastructure to the USAF DACT Training Bases, even including the school buildings themselves. The aims of the school are as follows:-
1 . Application of flying tactics.
2. Utilisation of weapon systems.
3. Standardisation and evaluation of various units.
4. Research and development in the field of tactics.
Pilots are selected by Air HQ in Rawalpindi normally after nine to twelve years of service. The successful graduates would hope to command a squadron in the rank of wing commander. The courses are tough and some selectees inevitably fail to make the grade. There are three courses, the combat commanders course lasting for 4/5 months, a 3 month weapons course, and a 4/5 week fighter integration course.
The CCS DACT course is unique throughout the world in its freedom as all combat missions are flown at tree top levels. All course pilots are fully responsible for the entirely independent formulation and execution of their mission plans and then drawing their own conclusions after the flight.
The importance of CCS at Sarghoda is highlighted by the fact that all foreign chiefs of air staff visiting Pakistan on exchange visits always include Sarghoda in their itinerary. This was the case recently when the RAF Chief of Air Staff Sir Peter Harding visited the school with his wife during a seven day exchange visit to Pakistan from October 11-18, 1991 {seeAFM March News). He was most impressed with what he saw, and showed surprise at the freedom allotted to the student DACT pilots. An F-7P was flown in to Sarghoda from Rafiqui Air Base during his visit in which he was given a 30 minute fliaht.
^^Quit whinning b1tch, you are a phuckistani and you lost and will always lose because you guys are inferior beggar scum who live on foreign aid, ROFLOL!!!
PAF superiority like i said never existed, its just a hoax. Phuckistan always had the element of surprise- since they attacked first without warning, and they had latest US equipment due to cold war politics.
Now phuckistan already plans for a war 6-8 months in advance, mobilises men and material, regulates the economy into war mode and is politically ready. India on the other hand wakes up one fine day to find it is attacked and mobilises its men after being attacked and still they manage top abuse and manhandle the phuckistanis. Whoever said "surprise is the element" surely didnt mean to include phuckistanis in the list.
As for PAF, when you attack the nearest airbase without prior warning then you are bound to take some hits. India is not USA and neither the radars were so sophisticated nor were there any AWACS that time, Pearl Harbour was a so-called success for Japan, only 12 out of 320 aircraft were lost in the raid, so now Japanese pilots were better than USAF in WW2 eh? LOL!!!!
India doesnt need to use propaganda,India won all its wars against a weak country Phuckistan, thats a fact the whole world knows.
"like i said they lack talent"
Yea Prado chutiya, phuckistani soldiers have a special talent in surrendering to the enemy without firing a shot. 90,000 soldiers surrendered LOL!!!! A world record unbeaten till date.
colours of Kaziranga
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1947 - pak ended up with 30% of kashmir.. considering pak army so badly equipped and large section of our army still being transfered india calls this a victory?
How much did India end up with? LOL, the major parts of Kashmir are with us while you got the hills! This is an Indian victory because the Raja aceded KAshmir to India!
1965 - PAF squarely beat the IAF roundly. there is no doubt there. the army fought the indians army to a stand still. overall it ended in a stalemate.
No, you launched offensives against India. The IA retaliated by opening new fronts across the Punjab border and you had to fall back. How about the 130 SSG soldiers who were captured around halwara airfield by pitchfork wielding villagers? ROFLMAO!!
US marine general zinni said it all "i persuaded the pakistanis to withdraw"
This is your biggest lie. Sharif, YOUR PRIME MINISTER, has said he went to ask clinton to let him withdraw. Do the words of an american general matter more to you that those of your prime minister? ROFLOL
the fact is Pakistani pilots and airmen, and infantry (and probably SSG) are still considered better than india's.
By whom? Pakistanis? LOL...
the fact india can only beat us by out numbering us, out gunning us massively... like i said they lack talent
Battle of Longewala, 120 Indian soldiers, 2 recoilless guns hold out against 3000 Paki soldiers, 65 tanks and artillery and end up winning...so much for outnumbering and out gunning. Want me to get started on the Battle of Basantar? :D
PAF has two aces (MM alam 9 kills, Syed Hatmi 5 kills) indian has none.
The NVAF had more aces than the USAF, does that tell you who had the upper hand during the whole campaign. Let me know when you're done googling for who the NVAF are..am pretty sure you've never heard of them.
Regardless of how many tanks got killed or how many airplanes were shot down, the real truth is that Pakistan has lost every battle its fought with India. Like I said, a history of surrender, PRados granddaddy surrendered to the japs at Kohima (he was telling it like he was awarded the victoria cross). His father surrendered in 1971 and Prado , a Kashmiri refugee, surrendered in 1990 when he ran away from home like a wuss!
A heritage based on surrendering.
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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again wootness keeps proving third class upbring u had resorting family insults in an topic that clear indians have no answer.
hey i dont blame u, you were just raised this way.
oh yes heritiage
lets see the indian heritage
1) family insults
2) foul language
3) bad upbring
4) intolerance
5) competely deluded
6) cant face the truth
7) liars
8) bad people
etc etc
i can go on....
thank God for pakistan we dont have live with u asssholes.
now go fcuk your self u silly chuoooo
This message has been edited by PradoTLC on Aug 27, 2009 11:04 AM This message has been edited by PradoTLC on Aug 27, 2009 10:59 AM This message has been edited by PradoTLC on Aug 27, 2009 10:55 AM This message has been edited by PradoTLC on Aug 27, 2009 10:53 AM This message has been edited by PradoTLC on Aug 27, 2009 10:51 AM
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It's easy to have loss ratio in your favor when you:
1. Limit sorties
2. Use defensive tactics like RAF in battle of britain or the Luftwaffe in the closing days of the air war over Germany.
3. Fight only when circumstances are in your favor.
The bottom line is India won ALL the wars. So losses of Aircraft are NOT PERTINENT.
If you look at the 1973 Yom Kippur war the IAF lost by far the most aircraft-mostly to Arab SAM's-but still WON THE WAR.
Typical Paki selective memory. At the end of the day India still TORE YOUR ASS..!!!
LOL
_____________________
typical europa gayreek horny brianless monkey! all he can comprehend is what is nicely analed in his arsehole by non other then wikipedia.
first of all... you dont make any sense at all..
1. PAF flew alot more sorties per plane however due to small size of its fleet they could not clock as many flying hours combined by the entire IAF fleet who nearly had 5 times more fleet.
2. what a retard.. thanks for the faggotory very expert opinion now i am sure air forces around the world will fallow your dildo chair general advice and use "defensive" tactics to prevent losses and then attack...
does 6 days war operation by IDAF comes into your gayreek mind?
PAF flew more offensive deep strike successful missions then IAF did... destroyed 40+ IAF planes in ground.. read the above articles from various sources you indian dick twat!
3. your stupidity has no bounds.. better stick to your getting @ss dirty job.
typical blind indian cock sucker.
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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So? The total number of sorties the IAF flew compared to the PAF was still hugely in the IAF's favor.
however due to small size of its fleet they could not clock as many flying hours combined by the entire IAF fleet
Whos talking about flying hours here? ROFLOL. Are you completely stupid or something?
PAF flew more offensive deep strike successful missions
And utterly failed at providing recon, CAS to the PN or the Pakistani army which ultimately led to your humiliating defeat. In the 71 war the PAF was using radars mounted on Cessnas loaned by the Flying club of Pakistan to patrol the borders. ROFL
typical blind indian cock sucker.
Happy ramadan to you too, ROFL!
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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----PAF superiority like i said never existed, its just a hoax. Phuckistan always had the element of surprise- since they attacked first without warning, and they had latest US equipment due to cold war politics.-----
yaa... well kiss my paki @ss...
The Chief of Indian Air Force could no longer ensure the safety of Indian air space. A well known Indian journalist, Mr Frank Moraes, in a talk from All-india radio, also admitted that IAF had suffered severe losses and it was no use hiding the fact and India should be prepared for more losses...."
Indonesian Herald
September 11, 1965.
_____________
now shut the phuck up you hindu pathological lying rat!
----Now phuckistan already plans for a war 6-8 months in advance, mobilises men and material, regulates the economy into war mode and is politically ready. India on the other hand wakes up one fine day to find it is attacked and mobilises its men after being attacked and still they manage top abuse and manhandle the phuckistanis. Whoever said "surprise is the element" surely didnt mean to include phuckistanis in the list.-----
and india was sleeping??? i guess it was china who attacked us in lahore.
---As for PAF, when you attack the nearest airbase without prior warning then you are bound to take some hits. India is not USA and neither the radars were so sophisticated nor were there any AWACS that time, Pearl Harbour was a so-called success for Japan, only 12 out of 320 aircraft were lost in the raid, so now Japanese pilots were better than USAF in WW2 eh? LOL!!!!----
and you are referring to PATHAMKOT right? you know what happened their? entire IAF Mig-21F-13 fleet were whipped out! and then PAF even pounded Kalaikunda Ambala which are about 200 and 400 km away from the border! now stfu because IAF got its @ss kicked.. and oh as if pakistan had AWACS and latest generation of ground radars... typical deluded hindu slum rat.
-----India doesnt need to use propaganda,India won all its wars against a weak country Phuckistan, thats a fact the whole world knows.-----
just like you keep telling the world that modern day india was never ruled by foreigner powers but it fact it was phuckistan not india.. right you d1ckhead?
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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PAF flew more offensive deep strike successful missions
And utterly failed at providing recon, CAS to the PN or the Pakistani army which ultimately led to your humiliating defeat. In the 71 war the PAF was using radars mounted on Cessnas loaned by the Flying club of Pakistan to patrol the borders. ROFL
____________________
oye slum dog retard.. how does your answer answers my question you doggy whore? this thread is about 65 war in which IAF got its huge @ss handed over... radars mounted on cessnas?? cool... i thought PAF was technically much superior to IAF as we operated "latest gadgets from cold war" and this is what your fello slum resident monkeys say.. lol..
btw did some one say 71 air war here??
over all PAF has destroyed about 80 IAF planes in air to air combat so far and lost only 34 of their own. a great achievement considering PAF was numerically facing 1-5 odds and were technically inferior.
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
This message has been edited by antiindian on Aug 27, 2009 12:00 PM
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india won all it's wars hahah hha what a retarded statement.. then again it is landos
1947 - pak ended up with 30% of kashmir.. considering pak army so badly equipped and large section of our army still being transfered india calls this a victory???? hahhah
kashmir was not part of india b4 attack . it was ruled by a hindu king but majority of population was moslem . fortunately porkies attacked kashmere and the king merged his kingdom with india. so all pakistani were able to get was 30% of kingdom of kashmir not Indian kasmir. also pakis were under illusion that local muslim population will support the paki army but the shia kasmiris instead supported india .
1965 - PAF squarely beat the IAF roundly. there is no doubt there. the army fought the indians army to a stand still. overall it ended in a stalemate. After gaining a few scores in some border skirmish in runn of kuchh, pakis launched two operation(GOOGLE OPERATION GRAND SLAM<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /> AND GIBRALTAR) to take over Kashmir. same illusion prevail that local population will help them, instead they informed indian army about the presence of strange foreigners. pakistan had no idea that India will retailiate will an full fledged attack on other sectors.result was an agreement where both india and pakistan returned each others territory.however back home paki leaders made tall claims of defeating india squarely.
the myth of pakis winning air war was spread to calm down paki population who was asking painful questions .
1971 - they won in one sector underexceptional circumstances, in the western sector the indians made little head way
lol and who was responsible for making the circumstances exceptional.any way it was never the aim of India to takeover western paki territories. Main aim was to liberate east pakistan as fast as possible. which was achieved under 16 days. In westorn sector also india gained substanial land mass .
1999 - kargil - US marine general zinni said it all "i persuaded the pakistanis to withdraw". tactically pakistan army gave india a bashing it hasnt forgot even today. pakistan soldiers were betting among them selves how many indians they were going kill today.
we all know how general zinni/Uncle sam persuade others. something like "Either with us or Against Us". (I think) same gen. was sent to pakistan after 9/11 to persuade pakistan.
for above mentioned paki soldiers its kinda sad thattheir bodies will still be in indian territory under in some unnamed graves since pakis refuesd to take back their remains.
SURRENDER OF PAKI ARMY IN 1971 1N 1971 A NEW HISTORY AS WELL AS A NEW NATION WAS CREATED BY WE THE INDIANS..
This message has been edited by punit_prakhar on Aug 27, 2009 1:02 PM
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The Ouragan was more of a subsonic type than the transonic F-86, in Israel they shot one Vampire, i dont think they were a match for the Mig-15 or the F-86.
So all in all i wouldn't expect the Indian A-F to have done much in A2A with them but i recon i don't know, they might have or used them in the A2G role mainly...
= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.
= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm
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oye slum dog retard.. how does your answer answers my question you doggy whore?
Why so serious, pup? Did chacha go doggy style without lube today? Btw, the internet connection your'e using right now, its paid for by an international group called friends of pakistan. And you have the audacity to call me a slumdog! ROFL!!!
a great achievement
Almost as great as Bangladesh eh? 90,000 of your puppies begging at the hindu's feet for mercy. Ever asked your daddy how it felt when his nation surrendered? God, I'd not want to be him...ROFL!
But its a tradition in Pakistan, dad saw a surrender in 71, son saw a surrender in 99 etc etc..ROFL. Sucks to be you, and I am seriously sorry you are a paki!
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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Why so serious, pup? Did chacha go doggy style without lube today? Btw, the internet connection your'e using right now, its paid for by an international group called friends of pakistan. And you have the audacity to call me a slumdog! ROFL!!!
____________________________
wootness i am so not surprised about your lifestyle.. i mean your uncle?? and you? it makes one really sad to know about your affairs. tsk tsk tsk..
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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from the dotheads own mouth, proof dispite india's mucher superior force they didnt have the talent to bring us down...
complete ownage i say....so clearly PAF did spank IAF and the dotheads on this forum CANNOT handle the truth...
qoutes from
A critical look at the 1965 operations
Air Chief Marshal P C Lal at the National Security Lecture 1973 at the USI
"We failed to make a real dent In Pakistan's forces, both on the ground and in the air"
"for the PAF was constantly harassing It. The Army needed air defence and tactical support but no detailed arrangements-had been made for either. The Air Force was willing to help and it did all it could but in the absence of joint plans, large gaps remained in the air cover in the combat zone. Neither did the air operations, through which we hoped to immobilize the PAF and reduce Pakistan's ability to make war, achieve much for we had no well thought out target system for the purpose."
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
oh sorry and the final blow. the flowing quote from the same article written by Dothead fly boy says it all about PAF's performance
" The initial successes of our Army were soon checked by stiff resistance, a notable feature of which was the close co-operation between the Pakistani Army and Air Force. The two of them had obviously done their homework well, for our jawans reported that the PAF were quick to appear whenever the Pakistani ground forces were in difficulties, and gave them most effective support"
"This was the more remarkable because unlike our set-up. In which all three Service Chiefs and their Headquarters were based at Delhi, the Pakistani Air Chief was located at Peshawar, the Army Chief at Islamabad, near Rawalpindi, and the Naval Chief at Karachi. The fact that their forces managed to work well together speaks well for their mutual understanding, which is more Important than physical proximity"
(an example of PAF's talents and india's unimpressive character - prado)
OH wow, guess that really changes 47, 65, 71, Siachen and Kargil eh? ROFL. Face it prado, you lost. Regardless of PAF victories or PA victories or PN victories, the end result was defeat for Pakistan.
Like Awalktoremember said - Airplanes can be bought, territories, respect lost in war cannot
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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The little bit inside me that knows I can spoil your day by just talking about how you surrendered to us and lost half you country.
Thank you, come again.
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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territories, respect lost in war cannot
__________________
thats like my good dog wootness.. you have said it right.
india should change its foreigner given name to something more of loser hindu name after this humiliation by smaller paki force.
Pakistans flag flutters proudly over the romantic Rajput fort of Kishengrah in Rajasthan where Pakistan army was in occupation of over 1200 square miles of Indian Territory
Three Pakistani officers pose for picture in front of the imposing structure of the ancient Rajasthan fort at Gotaro. This was one of the chain of forts and other fortifications captured by Pakistans Desert Force in 1965 War
Army C-in-C General Mohammad Musa Khan at Khem Karan Railway Station after capturing of the town by Pakistani troops
Munabao, the important railway station of Rajasthan , loudly contradicting Indias persistent propaganda that Munabao was not taken by Pakistan
Pakistani soldiers, proudly carrying aloft Pakistans flag, pass the custom house when they captured Munabao
Khem Karan, the Indian market town, was the place from where Indians were to launch their thrust on Kasur and then on to Lahore. The milestone in the picture with Pakistani soldiers in the background in an eloquent footnote to India's defeated ambitions.
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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Indian soldiers flying the flag over the strategic Haji Pir pass.
1971 pictures to follow folks!! :D
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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The little bit inside me that knows I can spoil your day by just talking about how you surrendered to us and lost half you country. ************
RE: and every post i post i know ruins all your days...
surrender in 1971? of course it is disgrace full to surrender to low calibre race like the indians..
but the good thing since pakistan has been giving a trashing to india, be it acquiring nuke arms, ass raping in mini wars like kargil or in kashmir and punjub where counter insurgency ops has cost the cheap asss hindu nation billions of dollars and thousands of lives.
payback is a bitch isnt?
This message has been edited by PradoTLC on Aug 27, 2009 3:14 PM
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ass raping in mini wars like kargil or in kashmir and punjub
Same race that says juice did 9/11 and Osama is on CIA's payroll.
Its funny just how retarded most of you pakis are, ROFL. Is there not one dude amongst all of you who has an IQ score that enters double digits?
==================================
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Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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so as we have seen the dotheads and thier cocksucking allies like landos have no answer in our orginal arguement that PAF beat the crap out of IAF and IA.
instead they resorted to stupid arguement and even sillier assumptions and of course cheap shots by thier 3rd rate leader wootness...
another prado and anti dothead victory.
long live pakistan and may the supporters of india have short penis..
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PAF far less sorties then IAF, even then IAF been humiliated every time ....thats worst...so it proves majority of IAF sorties were unplanned and PAF counter them with one or two planes......that shows really worst performance of IAF, who always has double the number of planes and better then Pak, and plus more variety...
PEACE
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Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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^^^Can't control insurgency when local population ready to give cover to insurgent ....living example of Iraq and Afghanistan.....few predator can't win the war...
PEACE
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Yet again wootness become the victim of my cyber rape.
out of 4 pictures wootness could pull out of his arse bank of pics only 2 of them are from 65 war and... lol... his fake ego pathological lying lame remark.. "India occupied entire Lahore"... lol... if you just want to say just for heck of it.. then from the pictures that i have shown then pakistan occupied entire rajistan sector and almost every pak indo neighbors sectors.
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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Really want to know what else happened at khem karan? :D
The 1965 Indo-Pakistani War was witness to the largest tank battle in military history since World War II. This battle lead to the creation of Patton Nagar (or Patton City) at the site of the battle viz., Khemkaran. This is because many Patton tanks fielded by the Pakistani forces were either captured or destroyed at the scene.
The Indian Army managed to capture 97 Pakistani Tanks as a result of the botched assault by the 1 Armoured Division of the Pakistan Army at the Battle of Assal Uttar on 10 September 1965.[3] Six Pakistani Armoured Regiments took part in the battle, namely the 19 Lancers (Patton), 12 Cavalry (Chafee), 24 Cavalry (Patton) 4 Cavalry (Patton), 5 Horse (Patton) and 6 Lancers (Patton).
The Indian forces in the field that day consisted of three Armoured regiments with inferior tanks, the Deccan Horse (Shermans), 3 Cavalry (Centurion) and the 8 Cavalry (AMX-13). The battle was so fierce and intense that at the end of the war, the Fourth Indian Division a.k.a. "The Fighting Fourth" had captured about 97 tanks in destroyed/damaged or intact condition. This included 72 Patton tanks and 25 Chafees and Shermans. 32 of the 97 tanks, including 28 Pattons, were in running condition. The Indian forces lost 32 tanks. Fifteen of them were captured by the Pakistan Army, mostly Sherman tanks.
6 armored regiments equipped with patton tanks against 3 regiments equipped with qualitatively inferior tanks, and still the pakistanis got destroyed. ROFL.
A soldier taking a pic near a signpost doesnt mean hes captured the land, ROFL. The truth is out there, google for the battle of Asal uttar, 97 tanks captured ROFL, so surrendering didnt begin from 71 eh? Your traditions go back to 65. ROFLOL!
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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Indian troops raising the tricolor at haji pir pass.
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1965, bridge destroyed by retreating pakistani troops. Stlategic victoly onlee.
==================================
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Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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Indian troops at Dograi, near the ichigoli canal, LAHORE.
==================================
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Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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is this your usual cure at the end of every day?.. plz tell us more about experince
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
"Can't control insurgency when local population ready to give cover to insurgent ....living example of Iraq and Afghanistan.....few predator can't win the war..."
So you mean to say that the pashtun tribals are anti-phuckistani eh? Your own army fights loosing battles against the tribals and US has to come and violate your territory
@wootness- Looks like you owned Prado yet again, LOL!!!!
colours of Kaziranga
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clearly indication of wootness cyber raped by antiindian once again!....
he is running out of pictures can not exceed beyond 2-3 pictures so he is pulling out 71 war pictures.. what a loser wootness is... look what his uncle turned him into.. acee1 sig is a perfect example of this slum retard.
keep in mind that this is "PAF spanked IAF in 65war" thread not you homo erotic rants to stimulate your fello hindu vaginas.
PAF inferior sabres shooting down IAF superior hunters with guns..
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= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.
= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm
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You realy have a problem with accuracy, i'd take the F-86 over the Hunter any time...
_______________________
you are not getting the context here..
PAF vs IAF
PAF had only 100 operational sabres in 1965 out of 120 supplied in 1950s. about 20 of them were used as spares or cannibalization. PAF also acquired hand full numbers of AIM-9B for 2 squdron of 16 sabres (specially modified) which had only 30% kill ratio. in fact in 1965 war out of 33 Aim-9b fired only 3 had a successful kills.
now you tell me why would you chose to sit in a F-86 cockpit in pak-indo context?
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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"antiindian)
now you tell me why would you chose to sit in a F-86 cockpit in pak-indo context?"
Simply because it was the best of its generation, the Hunter never achieved similar kill ratios vs Mig-15 nor did ANY other aircrafts of the time including the Ouragan.
I have serviced the AIM-9B and its performances were average, mainly due to the lack of training of pilots who would fire them with a heat source (sun or its reflection) in the missile seaker PoV and also some level of unreliability, it was the same when fited to a Mirage IIIE.
The missile wasn't even designed for close air combat but rather interception of Russian Bombers of this era, it had a firing envelop extended up to M 1.7 with the IIIE.
With AAMs or Gun only, the Sabre was simply the aircraft to have at this time.
= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.
= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm
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now you tell me why would you chose to sit in a F-86 cockpit in pak-indo context?"
Simply because it was the best of its generation, the Hunter never achieved similar kill ratios vs Mig-15 nor did ANY other aircrafts of the time including the Ouragan.
I have serviced the AIM-9B and its performances were average, mainly due to the lack of training of pilots who would fire them with a heat source (sun or its reflection) in the missile seaker PoV and also some level of unreliability, it was the same when fited to a Mirage IIIE.
The missile wasn't even designed for close air combat but rather interception of Russian Bombers of this era, it had a firing envelop extended up to M 1.7 with the IIIE.
With AAMs or Gun only, the Sabre was simply the aircraft to have at this time.
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thats really funny... so you are judging the performance of a plane by its combat record? you do know PAF pilots shot down IDAF Mirage-IIICJ with a hunter does it make Hunter better then Mirage-III at the end of the day? NOOO... alot alot depends on pilot trainings. Isrealis never under estimated hunters... but its only your opinion which does not change the course of reality.
btw did hunters and Mig-15 face each other in war?
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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"antiindian)
thats really funny... so you are judging the performance of a plane by its combat record?"
Combat records are the results of two things, superior pilot training and sufficient-to superior-performances.
In the case of the F-86 any 14 years old Airfix collector would know it was simply more performant than what the Indian A-F had to offer.
"antiindian)
you do know PAF pilots shot down IDAF Mirage-IIICJ with a hunter does it make Hunter better then Mirage-III at the end of the day? NOOO..."
Sure, freak accident happenend...
Russian I-6 shot BF-109 Es during WWII and we can copntinue to play your stupid little roundabout game until it is even more obvious that you are just trying to get some justification for the scores.
YOU ARE PLAIN WRONG.
The Hawker Hunter is simply inferior to the F-86 in the Air-to-air role and this is a FACT, like the rest it never was a match for the Mig-15, only the Sabre was.
"antiindian)
alot alot depends on pilot trainings. Isrealis never under estimated hunters... but its only your opinion which does not change the course of reality".
They had better pilots and btw you are spinning yourself to knots now.
"antiindian)
btw did hunters and Mig-15 face each other in war?"
Not in Korea but the RAF had pilots flying the F-86 and many of them flew the Hunter from 1964 in RAF service, they were able to make the comparison.
In a dogfight they wouldn't live with a F-86E, for the same wing sweep angle, leading edge slats made the difference in turn rates at altitude.
The Hunter was slighly faster at lower levels apparently wand was better suited than the Sabre for ground attack, reason for many air forces to use them in this role...
= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.
= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm
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The Hunter was slighly faster at lower levels apparently wand was better suited than the Sabre for ground attack, reason for many air forces to use them in this role..
I had given him exactly the same reason back when we had another debate on F-86 vs hunter. The troll ran off then and a few months later, reappeared with what his amma taught him at his madrassa.
And to think hes part of the .001pc of elite pakis who have access to the internet..lol.
Next up will be an article by chuck yeager, a you tube video of PAF vs Israel and some claims of PAF having lots of aces and after that he'll slink away because quiet clearly, he has no idea what hes talking about.
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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^ as expected... you never asume WAFF with your stupidity..
First Mirage-2000 is better then F-16s
Rafale is the best fighter in Europe
then Hunters are better then F-86
IAF pilots then PAF
and your sources.. wikipedia.. now you dont have to be such a low life IAF servant. dont make stupidity out of your self by proving other wrong with half backed facts..
IAF pilots better then PAF? ya kiss my paki @ss you ignorant kunt.
PAF - Quality If Not Quantity
"Another way in which the PAF satisfies this requirement is in the pursuit of excellence with regard to its combat echelons. Paradoxically, though, that pursuit is by its very nature an expensive procedure and there is a high wastage rate as pilots progress through the training system, with individuals being weeded out all the way along the line. The end result is felt to be well worth the expense involved, however, and personal observations have certainly convinced the author that the average PAF pilot is almost certainly possessed of superior skills when compared with, say, an average American pilot. As to those , who are rated above average, they compare favourably to the very best in a host of western air arms. Standard of accuracy appear comparable to those of the west and may surpass them, one F-6 pilot of No. 15 Squadron having recently put 20 out of 25 shells through a banner in four successive passes. The author can vouch for this having inspected the banner at Kamra and even more remarkably, the pilot responsible for this impressive shooting was a 'frst tourist'."
(Lindsay Peacock. Journal: Air International, Vol 41. No 5)
Airforces Monthly
Article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47 by Sergey Vekhov)
An article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47) of Airforces Monthly, a reputable UK-based air defence magazine, written by a Russian aviation writer, Sergey Vekhov, for the first time in public, provided a first-hand account about the PAF's pilots:
"As an air defence analyst, I am fully aware that the Pakistan Air Force ranks today as one of the best air forces in the world and that the PAF Combat Commanders' School (CCS) in Sargodha has been ranked as the best GCI/pilot and fighter tactics and weapons school in the world". As one senior US defence analyst commented to me in 1997, "it leaves Topgun (the US Naval Air Station in Miramar, California) far behind".
Jane's International Defense (June 24, 1998)
The PAF, although outnumbered by IAF, has at least one qualitative edge over its rival: Pilot Training. The caliber of Pakistani instructors is acknowledged by numerous air forces, and US Navy pilots considered them to be highly 'professionals' during exercises flying off the USS Constellation (as co-pilots). The IAF is in an unfortunate position: it lacks an advanced training (and multi-role combat aircraft
Every Man A Tiger
"Iraqi pilot training came from three sources: France, Pakistan and the former Soviet Union. Lucky for us, Soviet training proved dominant, with their emphisis on rigid rules, strict command arrangements and standardized tactics. Coupled with this centralized approach, the Soviets were suspecious of non- Russians and disliked Arabs. The Iraqi students were taught to take off and land their aircrafts safely, but otherwise their training was so basic, so lacking in advanced tactics, as to be useless. There was however a wild card. Not all Iraqi training came from the Russians.
Iraqi pilots, were trained well by their French and Pakistani instructors. Pakistan has one of the best, most combat ready airforces in the world. They have to; their neighbour to the east is huge, and the two nations, have a long history of hostilities. For Indian war planners, the Pakistan air Force is their worst fear. Pakistani pilots are respected throughout the world, especially the Islamic world, beause they know how to fly and fight.
On one or two occasions, I had the oppertunity to talk with Pakistani instructor pilots, who had served in Iraq. These discussions, didn't give me great cause to worry. The Russian domination of training prevented the Pakistanis from having any real influence on the Iraqi aircrew training program.
Still, there had to be a few Iraqi pilots, who had observed and listened to their mentors from France and Pakistan and the useless guidence of their inept leaders. It was those few, I was concerned about - the ones with great situational awareness and good eyesight, who had figured out how to effectively use their aircrafts and its weapons to defend their nation."
(General Chuck Horner (retd) and Tom Clancey. General Chuck commanded the US and allied air assets during Desert shield and desert storm, and was responsible for the design and execution of one of the most devestating air campaigns in the history. He also served as Commander 9th Air Force, Commander US Central Command Air Forces, and Commander in chief, SpaceCom. Book: Every Man A Tiger).
American Broadcasting Corporations Roy Maloni in 1965 war:
During 1965 war, Indias General Chaudri ordered his troops to march on Sialkot and Lahore jauntily inviting his officers to join him for drinks that evening in lahore Gymkhana. He didn;t reckon on the Pakistani troops.
The first Indian regiment that found itself face to face with Pakistanis didnt get clobbered, said a report in Washington DC, America. They just turned and ran, leving all of their equipment, artillery supplies and even extra clothing and supplies behind.
I have been a journalist now for twenty years, reported American Broadcasting Corporations Roy Maloni, and want to go on record that I have never seen a more confident and victoroius group of soldiers than those fighting for Pakistan, right now.
India is claiming all-out victory. I have not been able to find any trace of it. All I can see are troops, tanks and other war material rolling in a steady towards the front These muslims of Pakistan are natural fighters and they ask for no quarter and they give none. In any war, such as the one going on between India and Pakistan right now, the propoganda claims on either side are likely to be startling. But if I have to take bet today, my money would be on the Pakistan side.
The London Daily Mirror reported: There is a smell of death in the burning Pakistan sun. For it was here that Indias attacking forces came to a dead stop.
During the night they threw in every reinforcement they could find. But wave after wave of attacks were repulsed by the Pakistani troops.
India, said the London Daily Times, is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by four and a half to one in population and three to one in size of armed forces.
In Times reporter Louis Karrar wrote: Who can defeat a nation which knows how to play hide and seek with death.
I will never forget the smile full of nerve the conducting army officers gave me. this smile told me how fearless and brave are the Pakistani young men.
Playing with fire to these men from the jawan to the general Officer Commanding was like children playing with marbles in the streets.
I asked the GOC, how is it that despite a small number you are overpowering the Indians?
He looked at me, smiled and said: if courage, bravery and patriotism were purchaseable commodities, then India have got them along with American aid.
Pakistan has been able to gain complete command of the air by literally knocking the Indian planes out of the skies, if they had not already run away.
THE 1965 INDO- PAKISTAN WAR:
The Partition of 1947 signalled the end of the British Empire in India, and the establishment of two independent states, India and Pakistan. They took opposite sides over Kashmirs struggle for independence in 1947-49, and although open war was averted, India lost 6000 men in the conflict. India annexed Kashmir in January 1957 and there followed a long period of tension with Pakistan. Armed clashes in the Rann of Kutch in western India during January 1965 and Pakistans recruitment of a Free Kashmir guerrilla army finally erupted into open warfare in August 1965.
The ground forces of the two countries appeared to be evenly matched, and their respective offensives (although involving approximately 6000 casualties on each side) were indecisive. The Pakistan Air Force, however, emerged with great credit from its conflict with the Indian Air Force, destroying 22 IAF aircraft in air-to-air combat for the loss of only eight of its own a remarkable achievement considering that the PAF faced odds of nearly four to one. During the conflict India and Pakistan came under strong international pressure to end the war, and arms supplies to both sides were cut off by Britain and the US. A ceasefire imposed by the UN Security Council then reduced the conflict to a series of sporadic minor clashes, and the national leaders were persuaded to attend a peace conference at Tashkent in January 1966. Their decision to renounce the use of force finally ended the war.
(Anthoney Robinson, former staff of the RAF Museum, Hendon and now a free lance Military aviation writer . Book: Elite Forces Of The World)
Combat Over The Indian Subcontinent:
In September 1965 a festering border dispute between India and Pakistan erupted into full scale war. The Indian possessed the larger air force numerically, composed maily of British and French types- Hawker Hunter, Folland Gnat and Dassault Mystere fighters, Dassault Ouragon fighter-bombers and English electric Camnberra bombers. The smaller but highly trained Pakistan air force was equipped in large part with F-86F Sabers, plus a few F-104 Starfighters. Fighting lasted little more than two weeks, but during that time, Pakistan gained a definite ascendancy in the air. It was the well proven Sabers that emerged with honors, being credited with all but five of the 36 victories claimed. The Indians claimed 73 victories undoubtly a considerable overestimate for an admitted loss of 35.
(Christopher Sivores, Book: Air Aces)
Sunday Times, London, September 19, 1965:
Indian pilots are inferior to Pakistans pilots and Indian officers leadership has been generally deplorable. India is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by a four and a half to one in population and three to one three to one in size of armed forces.
Patrick Seale, The Observer, London, September 12, 1965:
Pakistans success in the air means that she has been able to redeploy her relatively small army professionally among the best in Asia with impunity, plugging gaps in the long front in the face of each Indian thrust.
By all accounts the courage displayed by the Pakistan Air Force pilots is reminiscent of the bravery of the few young and dedicated pilots who saved this country from Nazi invaders in the critical Battle of Britain during the last war.
Roy Meloni, American Broadcasting Corporation, September 15, 1965:
India is claiming all out victory. I have not been able to find any trace of it. All I can see are troops, tanks and other war material rolling in a steady stream towards the front.
If the Indian Air Force is so victorious, why has it not tried to halt this flow?. The answer is that it has been knocked from the skies by Pakistani planes.
Pakistan claims to have destroyed something like 1/3rd the Indian Air Force, and foreign observers, who are in a position to know say that Pakistani pilots have claimed even higher kills than this; but the Pakistani Air Force are being scrupulously honest in evaluating these claims. They are crediting Pakistan Air Force only those killings that can be checked from other sources.
Peter Preston, The Guardian, London September 24, 1965:
One thing I am convinced of is that Pakistan morally and even physically won the air battle against immense odds.
Although the Air Force gladly gives most credit to the Army, this is perhaps over-generous. India with roughly five times greater air-power, expected an easy air-superiority. Her total failure to attain it may be seen retrospectively as a vital, possibly the most vital, of the whole conflict.
Nur Khan is an alert, incisive man of 41, who seems even less. For six years he was on secondment and responsible for running Pakistans civil air-line, which, in a country where now means sometime and sometime means never, is a model of efficiency. he talks without the jargon of a press relations officer. He does not quibble abobut figures. Immediately one has confidence in what he says.
His estimates, proffered diffidently but with as much photographic evidence as possible, speak for themselves. Indian and Pakistani losses, he thinks, are in something like the ration of ten to one.
Yet, the quality of equipment, Nur insists, is less important than flying ability and determination. The Indians have no sense of purpose. The Pakistanis were defending their own country and willingly taking greater risks. The average bomber crews flew 15 to 20 sorties. My difficulty was restraining them, not pushing them on.
This is more than nationalistic pride. Talk to the pilots themselves and you get the same intense story.
Everett G. Martin, General Editor, Newsweek, September 20, 1965:
One point particularly noted by military observers is that in their frist advances the Indians did not use air power effectively to support their troops. In contrast, the Pakistanis, with sophisticated timing, swooped in on Ambala airfield and destroyed some 25 Indian planes just after they had landed and were sitting on the ground out of fuel and powerless to escape (NOTE: PAF has not claimed any IAF aircraft during its attacks on Ambala due to non-availability of concrete evidence of damage in night bombing.)
By the end of the week, in fact, it was clear that the Pakistanis were more than holding their own.
Indonesian Herald, September 11, 1965:
Indias barbarity is mounting in fury as the Indian army and Air Force, severely mauled, are showing signs of demoralisation. The huge losses suffered by the Indian Armed Forces during the last 12 days of fighting could not be kept from the Indian public and in retaliation, the Indian armed forces are indulging in the most barbaric methods.
The Chief of Indian Air Force could no longer ensure the safety of Indian air space. A well known Indian journalist, Mr Frank Moraes, in a talk from All-india radio, also admitted that IAF had suffered severe losses and it was no use hiding the fact and India should be prepared for more losses.
AFP Corespondent, reporting on September 9, 1965:
Pakistani forces thrusting six miles deep into Indian territory the south-east of Lahore have checked the Indian offensive launched on September 6 against the capital of West Pakistan.
Pakistani infantry supported by armor and guns were today entrenched six miles east of the Indian border, and well beyond Indian town of Khem Karan, the capture of which last week forced Indian tanks and men to make a hasty retreat.
From Khem Karan, an ever-green village now deserted by its 15,000 people, a 40-mile road leads directly to Amritsar, holy capital of Indias restive Sikhs. And a Pakistani offensive along that road could threaten the rear of Indian forces still facing Lahore from East Punjab.
As I visited Khem Karan today with the first party of newsmen shown into India by Pakistani officers, evidence of the Indians hasty withdrawal lay everywhere in the flat dust blown fields.
Intact mortars and American made ammunition, much of which was still crated, for 81 and 120 mm mortars, shells for 90 mm tank guns, rifle cartridges in hundred, stacks of fuel in barrel, had been left behind.
India had sent against Lahore one armoured brigade and two infantry divisions. The initial thrust on September 6, carried the Indians two and a half miles deep into Pakistan from Khem Karan and the Pakistanis say they were outnumbered six to one.
The Pakistanis pushed the Indians back at the cost of bitter fighting. One Pakistani armoured unit ran into an Indian armoured regiment, the Ninth Royal Deccan Horse and no shots were spared.
I saw two Indian Sherman tanks on the road to Khem Karan blown clean through, one in the rear and one in the front, each by a single Pakistani shell with the dead crew still inside.
Indian dead lay unburied in the fields. An Indian border post was riddled with bullets and shells. This is real war, even though Pakistani infantry are now resting at forward posts, with Indians on the defensive and the main action in the air.
Indian British made Canberras, Soviet made Mig-21s and French made Mysteres and Ouragons constantly swoop, strafe and bomb from a safe altitude, for Pakistani anti-aircraft units are very much on the alert. On the the road from Lahore charred trucks lay twisted wrecks, one of them still aflame. It is war run by cool professionals, with every gun and tank well protected by camouflage nets, every trench where it should be, perfect discipline and very high morale.
Almost every Pakistani officers says: We are not interested in territorial gains, but we are very keen to give the Indians a hard lesson and we wont stop short of that.
BBC commentary By Charles Douglas Home, September 10, 1965:
Man for man, unit for unit, Pakistans smaller Army is at a higher standard of training than the Indian Army. The present Indian intention was to scatter Pakistans smaller Army by making several other thrusts apart from the main fighting area in the Lahore sector. The intense air activity had prevented the mass movement of Indian troops by air.
Christian Science Monitor, September 10, 1965:
The Pakistan-India conflict, in the Pentagons early assessment, pits tighter discipline, a higher morale, better training, and some superior equipment among the Pakistanis against considerably larger Indian Land, Air and Sea Forces.
Washington sources see Pakistan aiming to humiliate Indian in a short conflict. They judge India as depending on its juggernaut to crush the Pakistanis under sheer military weight.
Armoured strength between the two forces is about equal but the Pakistani tanks are more modern.
The New York Times, September 10, 1965:
Pakistan has a somewhat more homogeneous army with less ethnic and religious frictions. Its soldiers have a high reputation for will to fight; and in Mohammad Ayub Khan, the head of state and Sandhurst-trained professional soldier, the army has always had a sympathetic supporter.
Joe McGrown Jr., Washington Post, September 10, 1965:
We fought for you last time, several Pakistanis told me, referring to their wartime service under British command. But this time it is our war and we shall fight it to the finish
Top of the News, Washington, September 6-10, 1965:
Nehru wasnt worried much about aggression when India took Goa. But Shastri has plenty to worry about now, because he is facing penal and disciplinary action by one of the toughest and best trained armies in the world, excellently led, highly organized and totally dedicated. For himself he has a motley, disorganized, low-morale force of four time as many men as Pakistan, but they cant or wont fight. They only beg.
The first Indian regiment that found itself face to face with the Pakistanis didnt get clobbered. They just turned and ran, leaving all of their equipment, artillery supplies and even extra clothing and supplies behind.
The Pakistan military hardware, including tanks, planes, and ground-warfare equipment of every kind is far superior to that of Indians, and one long time expert of the Indian-Pakistan picture told me this afternoon that in his military opinion, there is little doubt but that the Pakistanis will lick the Indians in the long run, despite the fact that the Indian army outnumbers the Pakistan army four to one.
This expert said, however, that there is great disparity between the quality of the two armies, not to mention the disparity in equipment. The Indian soldier is soft while the Pakistan soldier is tough and determined. The Indian leadership is vacillating and uncertain, while the Pakistan leadership is well trained, highly talented and decisive.
The Indian air force is somewhat larger than the Pakistan Air Force in numbers of planes, but there is no organizational pattern to the way they have been acquired or to what is on hand. It is a weird conglomeration of all sorts and conditions of aircraft from a variety of countries, even including France and the maintenance problem is staggering, even if adequate maintenance personnel were available. It means a vast stocking of replacement parts, because the different for virtually ever type of plane they have, while the Pakistan Air Force has been intelligent enough to standardize to a very high degree, and thus reduce their maintenance problem to a minimum. And this is vitally important as any war proceeds beyond the very first stages.
Furthermore, it began to develop today that the Indian claims of having shot down large numbers of Pakistan Air Force planes in the first days of conflict were highly exaggerated, and that the Pakistan losses have been virtually nil in this line.
The Indian claims, frankly, were highly suspicious from the beginning because they are notably poor airmen and their equipment is antiquated and not at all a match for the modern jet equipment of the Pakistan Air Force. It just didnt hold water to anyone who knew the details of the Indian air inventory as against the Pakistan air inventory, that any such victories could have been achieved by the Indians.
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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PAF pilots not only destroyed 3 IDAF planes in 6 day war but also lead a successful raid on in coming IDAF fighter/bombers which resulted in loss of 4 more IDAF planes.. then again few more pilots were send to arab countries in Yom Kippur War and destroyed IDAF F-4E and mirage-IIICJ.. now STFU waff troller.
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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Oh look, the articles are already there. ROFL. Waiting on the you tube videos and "WE HAD ACES" comments to save his behind. The world knows now that 1965 was a defeat for Pakistan....
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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if you consider WAFF and wikipeida your world then you are nothing but a sad loser. which you are btw..
and oh you were expecting yeager and youtube video but then yet again you got cyber raped again and again. makes me look like a loser when i make you look like my b1tch.
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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Losses were relatively heavy--on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
losing to the taliban???really we threw them out Swat, Bajur and Mohammad agency and now attacking them south waziristan.. dude u really bad in getting basic facts right.
but as i see since u like indians have no answer for the orginal thread u trying in vain to distract from the issue at hand. it is ok u r like the indians who like thier daddies and grand daddies got thier assess kicked in air battles are losing in the cyber wars too....
another paki victory here.
it is getting boring kicking indian and their allies arse here. ... yawn.
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
The sad truth for phuckistanis, cant win any wars in reality, they console themselves with flamewars in the internet. Whoever said "a lie if repeated a 1000 times is accepted as the truth" must have made contact with the phuckistanis and came to the said conclusion.
colours of Kaziranga
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The sad truth for phuckistanis, cant win any wars in reality, they console themselves with flamewars in the internet. Whoever said "a lie if repeated a 1000 times is accepted as the truth" must have made contact with the phuckistanis and came to the said conclusion.
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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FN how many times i have told you not to share with us your personal life state on WAFF. their is nothing we can do to help you except give you advice of "sleep tight" and bare the pain of 53% thingi..
btw the conclusion is... PAF lost only 20 planes of their own while destroyed 100 and damaged 20-30 IAF superior planes.
IAF really sucks..
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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losing to the taliban???really we threw them out Swat, Bajur and Mohammad agency and now attacking them south waziristan.. dude u really bad in getting basic facts right.
1) You have some victories now, but only with many Western Assistance. Without that Taliban will be dancing in the streets in Islamabad right now.
2) You was indeed losing at one point and even now insurgency is still out of your control. Or else you will not need to give USA permission to fly drones over your own nation, and even beg to put it in your bases.
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1) You have some victories now, but only with many Western Assistance. Without that Taliban will be dancing in the streets in Islamabad right now.
2) You was indeed losing at one point and even now insurgency is still out of your control. Or else you will not need to give USA permission to fly drones over your own nation, and even beg to put it in your bases.
___________________
do you have a brain or you like to use your @ss on everything?
Pakistan conducted every single mission on their own and successfully driven out most of the talibans back to afganistan.. on the other hand... NATO is still does not control most part of A-stan.. only kabul is safe which is like a war zone when compared to pak-afgan border.
____________________________________________
"Anti indian, the raja of the jungle!!"
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It's apparent that decades of abject humiliation losing wars to India has unhinged the Phuckistanians. Now they have to fabricate victories on internet forums.
Too bad they got their ASS TORE in every war!
LOL
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actually, most 'pakistani' skillfulleds pilotes were beings from ummah brotherhoods nations of bangladesh
look at Saiful Azam against zionista
-100% victorious records against zionistsa
-also killed hendis rats
look at M M Alam,
ditto
etc.
once parki leadership starts beings nonmuslims and start bumchumming westerns anglo amerikunts, even its leadership drinkings alcohol and moshe the hendu mohajir making nonislamics law legislation, parkis are beings dismantleds and reduceds to 'rubble'.
now parkis go door to door, begging UAE Saudi Arabia and its western masters.
Parkis should return to islam and kick back the hendu bloodline mohajir back to hendustan
===========================================
I am old Christiankiller
Sorry for offensive to our good religion christian brothers
I am not hating christians
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there u go anglo with your ethnic crap. it was PAF's high training standards of training and admission that made these men into great pilots. not to mention Nur Khan and Asgar Khan's leadership.
stop being a stupid indian like turd for change
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
Pakistan conducted every single mission on their own and successfully driven out most of the talibans back to afganistan..
ROFL
Ya of course.......
So you still allow US predator to bomb in Pakistani territory and begging for Western aid for "fun" right boy. Because Pakistan already beaten the Taliban, so no need for Predator or Western aids.
What a brainwashed idiot.
West is not winning the war in Afghanistan, not yet, but compared to Pakistani "effort" they did a miracle.
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Pakistan is a crumbling hell hole of a country where the central government does not even pretend it controls 1/3 of its own territory. India is the second fastest growing major economy on the planet with several major high tech industries. Pakistans only industry at all is the garment industry! There is no comparison today between the two countries. The typical Pakistani jet today cant fly at night. Pakistan doesnt even have JDAM's. The typical Indian jet is a generation better. The Indians have 1,000 T-90 tanks in the pipeline, the Pakistanis have at best 200 Al-Khalids in the pipe. I can keep going but there is nothing really to compare. If there is a war tomorrow Pakistans conventional forces would be steam rolled in under a week.
Pakistan is a nation on welfare. The only reason it has any decent kit at all is because the US and China are afraid the central government will fall outright so they hand out freebies. The Pakis complain about US arms to Israel, but the jews actually issue checks that cash for most of their kit! The Pakis havent paid with actual money for anything in decades now.
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Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
""200 F-15E piloted by PAF crews is enough to neutralise IAF current of about 1000 planes""
The F-15s you will beg from Saudi Arabia? ROFL, what a shameless nation...haha! He's so used to begging hes not even requesting stuff anymore, just assumes everyone will take one look at him, realise that this here is the most pathetic being on earth and give him alms..wow.
Has begging got into your paki genes or something? LOL
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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"200 F-15E piloted by PAF crews is enough to neutralise IAF current of about 1000 planes........."
What F-15E planes? when dd phuckistan have ONE F-15 aircraft, forget 200.
"india is lucky we have retards for economic planners"
Not luck, hard work. Losers like you talk and moan about luck coz your country is a country of beggars. Indians worked hard for the success, phuckistan on the other hand wasted their money on arms and have taken a habit to begging.
colours of Kaziranga
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u have 700 millions people living in misery. China is a success not india
Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia
Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.
u have 700 millions people living in misery. China is a success not india"
Abbe chutiye
If 700 million Indians are living in misery out of 1 billion, do you think India can have a trillion dollar economy which is growing every year?
Check the growth of India's economy, its among the fastest in the world, and you think this comes inspite of having 700 million poor, undernourished ppl? LOL!!!! Actually its even a bigger credit for India if we have achieved the economic success we have inspite of having 700 million beggars, LOL!!!
Cost of living in India is much cheaper then cost of living in US/Europe. One dollar= 48 ruppes. Wootness has explained before that in half a dollar you have have healthy lunch and dinner, and when i say healthy i dont mean compensation for food but a really hearty meal. The same amount of money in US wont get u a can of soda.
But your country prado chutiye, is a basket case. Like someone said, its a wlefare state running on foreign charity.
colours of Kaziranga
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==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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In fact, if you look at the link I've given above, from 2001 to 2005 , India has brought more people out of poverty compared to China. And thats despite the fact that the chicoms claimed 10pc growth and mocked India's 7-8pc growth!
ROFLOL.
Not a small margin either..wow
Decrease in number of people who live in PRC Slums from 2001 to 2005 - 3511715
Decrease " " Indian " - 48193636
ROFL.
And its a UN Link, hardly biased..PWNED!
==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.
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