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S-500 is around the corner

September 16 2009 at 3:08 PM
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Koniev  (Login Koniev)
Europa

Russia set to finish development of new air defense system


ASTRAKHAN (South Russia), September 16 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's advanced S-500 air defense system could be developed in the next few years, the Air Force commander said on Wednesday.

The S-500 is currently at the blueprint stage at the Almaz-Antei company and is expected to be rolled out by 2012.

"This work is in progress...I think this system will appear in the near future," Col. Gen. Alexander Zelin said.

The new system is expected to outperform Russia's most advanced S-400 as well as the U.S. Patriot Advanced Capability-3 system.

The S-400 Triumf (SA-21 Growler) is capable of intercepting and destroying airborne targets at a distance of up to 400 kilometers (250 miles), and can simultaneously engage up to six targets.

The S-500 is expected to have an extended range of up to 600 km (over 370 miles) and simultaneously engage up to 10 targets. The system will be capable of destroying hypersonic and ballistic targets.

Zelin said Russia's Defense Ministry considers the delivery of S-400 air defense missile systems to the Russian Armed Forces a priority at present, although exports of these systems to other countries of the Commonwealth of the Independent States (CIS) could be considered.

The general earlier said in line with a new defense model air-space defense brigades within Russia's Air Force will be established and equipped with advanced S-400 and S-500 air defense systems.

Russia has already deployed two S-400 regiments to protect the airspace around Moscow and industrial regions in the central part of the country, and an S-400 battalion in Russia's Far East.

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20090916/156150066.html

 
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(Login Brokenhalo12)

Re: S-500 is around the corner

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September 16 2009, 3:28 PM 

The S-500 is more of a long term project, post 2015 for sure..........the 400km 40N6 missile for the S-400 isn't even in service yet, the projected IOC is around 2011-2012.........

 
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(Login irkut)
Mother Russia

Re: S-500 is around the corner

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September 16 2009, 4:29 PM 

The 48N6 family of missiles were tested to 400km's way back when in the mid-1980's on the original S-300P system. Thus it is very likely that even the S-300PMU line of systems could engage targets that far if there werent software and sensor limits in place to prevent this (export mods are almost certainly crippled to prevent the sort of kill shots the USSR was successfully pulling off utilizing even more primitive S-300P systems as early as 1985).

The 40N6 very likely will be the missile for the S-500. SOC over at Key Publishing and the guy with the image int blog, has long speculated that the reason they keep quoting a 400km range for the S-400 is because it doesnt even need the 40N6 "big missile" to hit things at that range. Improved 48N6 family missiles + improved sensors means shots like that should be no problem.

"Fakel MKB engineers began work on dealing with the issue of a 400 kilometer ranged missile immediately upon the initiation of S-400 development. Boris Bunkin and Petr Grushin analyzed the characteristics of the 48N6 series missiles and realized that there was still potential in the missile for increased range. The missiles of the S-300P series weapons initially fly a near-ballistic profile towards their target. Increasing the altitude at apogee of the trajectory results in an increase in range. In-service weapons had their apogee restricted to 38 kilometers. This was due to the fact that at a higher altitude the aerodynamic control surfaces would no longer function effectively. Thrust vectoring control used during the boost stage was no longer viable either as the motor had already burnt out prior to reaching apogee. It was discovered that operating the control surfaces at higher altitudes resulted in an instability in the flight path, potentially impacting the accuracy of the weapon. Bunkin and Grushin's solution to increase the range of the missile system was to modify the control surfaces to allow them to lock during the near-ballistic portion of the trajectory. This would eliminate any unwanted movement, with the control surfaces unlocking upon reaching lower altitude to provide maneuverability during endgame. The new missile was tested in 1985 and reached an apogee of 70 kilometers. The significant increase in altitude enabled the missile to fly out to a range of 400 kilometers. Upon descending to 20 kilometers, the missile's guidance system was recaptured by an experimental engagement radar complex and guided normally, validating the concept of a 400 kilometer missile for the S-400.

After the 400 kilometer test firing, Almaz MKB set about redesigning the experimental engagement radar components to allow the system to be employed on a mobile chassis. The S-400 design was approved in 1988. Events surrounding the breakup of the Soviet Union would affect production of system components, so testing of the S-400 did not commence until 1993. By this time testing of strategic-level SAM systems had been relocated to Kapustin Yar in southwestern Russia as Sary Shagan now resided in the independent nation of Kazakhstan. System testing initially commenced with the existing 48N6D missile, with testing of the new 48N6DM designed for the S-400 being reported in 2004. The first S-400 battallion entered operational service near the town of Elektrostal in the Moscow region on 6 August 2007.

...skip down a bit...

The long-range weapon designed to give the S-400 its 400 kilometer engagement range is believed to be designated 40N6. As mentioned previously, the 48N6 has proved capable of operating effectively at this range, so 40N6 may in fact be a cover designation for an appropriately modified 400 kilometer ranged 48N6 series weapon destined for the S-400. Alternatively, it may be a wholly different missile designed for a different weapon system, such as the forthcoming S-500 strategic defense system. Ergo, despite rumors persisting of the continued development of what is referred to as the 40N6, it may well be that the S-400 is already capable of engaging targets at maximum range using the existing 48N6DM. This is reinforced by the fact that some sources claim that a 400 kilometer range missile has been in service with air defense units around Moscow since 2001. Were this to be the case, the 400 kilometer missile would almost certainly have to be a variant of the 48N6, as the only air defense units capable of operating such a system around Moscow would have been the various S-300PM batteries. This would also likely imply that off-board targeting of the missile for extreme-range engagements is possible, perhaps using the 64N6 battle management radar system. Endgame intercept without the standard SAGG guidance mode provided by the engagement radar would likely be performed using active radar homing were this to be the case. Active radar homing is another feature commonly attributed to the 40N6 missile, further reinforcing the fact that the missile may be the 48N6DM or another unknown variant. With active radar homing missiles could theoretically be fired using off-board targeting data, allowing them to engage targets outside the range of the engagement radar as SAGG guidance commands would not be required. It may even be possible that new-build 48N6 series weapons came with Bunkin and Grushin's locking control surfaces, allowing them to be operated at extreme range. Until Russia releases information regarding the 400 kilometer missile system employed by the S-400, the missile providing this capability will have to remain an enigma."

http://geimint.blogspot.com/2008/07/s-300p-detailed-analysis.html

I tend to concur with this viewpoint mainly because every time Russian officers on TV talk about the S-400 its with a wink-wink nod-nod type of attitude like "you guys have no idea of the real capability of this thing." They dont do this when talking about Flankers, but they do this with the S-400 all the time.

Finally, this line of reasoning makes sense when you compare the 48N6 line of missile to the Patriot missile. The dimensions dont jive for missiles that are supposedly peers.



[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by irkut on Sep 16, 2009 4:32 PM


 
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Eric
(Login Nighthawk00)
Eagle Squadron(US)

Re: S-500 is around the corner

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September 16 2009, 4:30 PM 

Some say the S-400 is just an updated S-300, can someone explain please?

[linked image]

When I was young I used to pray for a bike, then I realized that God doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.

 
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(Login Koniev)
Europa

Re: S-500 is around the corner

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September 16 2009, 4:38 PM 

Some say the S-400 is just an updated S-300, can someone explain please?
-----------------------------------

Well thats because radar systems for S-400 are greatly modified S-300 radar system .. the ones originaly destined for S-400 are still in development or testing or somewhore ... with 600-800km range ...
S-400 will frature new radar system and two new hit to kill missiles 9M96M/M2 ...


    
This message has been edited by Koniev on Sep 16, 2009 4:39 PM


 
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(Login irkut)
Mother Russia

Re: S-500 is around the corner

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September 16 2009, 4:46 PM 

nope, the radars are all new.

An AESA similar to Green Pine is still in development with one prototype built, but its more likely meant for the S-500 than the S-400.

2 battalions of S-400's are in service with a third and 4th on the way. 15 planned by 2015.

The missile currently deployed is the 48N6DME3 a modification of the 48N6 line of missiles found on basically all recent S-300PMU systems.

As usual, the missile is the easy thing. The only reason S-300PMU systems arent rated to 400 km's is because of the sensor limitations imposed on them and not because of the missile. The missile was tested to 400km's almost 25 years ago and the latest modifications on the 48N6 make it an even better projectile, basically a complete redesign was done, a simple comparison between the E2 and the E3 version of the 48n6 shows a 30% improvement in every parameter.

[linked image]

 
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(Login irkut)
Mother Russia

Re: S-500 is around the corner

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September 16 2009, 4:48 PM 

9m96 is a short ranged missiles similar to a ground launched AIM-120. In fact, Almaz may turn it into an air launched missile too.

It's an attempt by Almaz to kill the Buk system. It's fate is uncertain as Buk is cheap and does the same job well enough.

[linked image]

 
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