UN must act on Goldstone's report
By Linda S. Heard, Special to Gulf News
Published: September 21, 2009, 22:34


The recently released Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict is unequivocal in its condemnation of Israel.

Led by Justice Richard J. Goldstone - a South African judge who served as Chief Prosecutor for the UN's Rwanda and former Yugoslavia international criminal tribunals - the report pulls no punches.

Israeli officials are incensed by its conclusions variously calling it flawed, unfair, biased or part of a deliberate plot to cast a slur on Israel's international image. Israel's champions are even attempting to discredit Justice Goldstone as being either anti-Semitic or a 'self-hating Jew', conveniently forgetting that he has long been a self-ascribed Israel supporter.

Touting the anti-Semitic canard is the usual response to Israel's critics but in this particular case, the 'poor victimised Israel' chorus just can't make the mud stick.

In fact, Israelis have absolutely no right to complain because, according to the report, the Israeli government refused to cooperate with the UN investigation mission. It also prevented the team from meeting Israeli government and Palestinian National Authority officials or entering Gaza from its territory.

http://www.gulfnews.com/opinion/columns/world/10350877.html
Despite Israel's deliberate attempts to scupper the UN investigation, Goldstone's team succeeded in entering the Gaza Strip via Egypt. There, it conducted 188 individual interviews and reviewed more than 300 reports and submissions, amounting to more than 10,000 pages, more than 30 videos and 1,200 photographs.

The report's conclusions have pulled the rug from Israel's propaganda machine and suggest that Israel could be subject to the principle of Universal Jurisdiction, whereby states can try non-citizens for crimes, such as genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity, committed abroad.

It also "considers that the serious violations of International Humanitarian Law recounted in this report fall within the subject-matter jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC) and asks that the report be put before the UN Security Council for onward referral to the International Criminal Court in The Hague. What are these alleged crimes?

Firstly, the mission found that the Palestinian policemen killed by Israel on December 27, 2008 had civilian immunity and, therefore, the attack violated international humanitarian law.

Secondly, the numerous attacks launched by Israel on buildings "constituted deliberate attacks on civilian objects in violation of customary international humanitarian law" as they were "not justified by military necessity" and were "carried out unlawfully and wantonly."

Thirdly, the mission characterised as violations of international law the shelling with high explosive and white phosphorous munitions of the UNRWA compound that offered shelter to between 600 and 700 civilians, as well as strikes on Al Quds and Al Wafa hospitals.

Fourthly, the report describes Israel's mortar shell attacks on civilians, who were either sheltering or going about their business, as being indiscriminate and, therefore, violating international law. These attacks were aggravated by the refusal of the Israeli military to allow the evacuation of the wounded or to permit access to ambulances.

It concludes that "the conduct of the Israeli armed forces constitute grave breaches of the Fourth Geneva Convention in respect of willful killings and willfully causing great suffering to protected persons, and, as such, give rise to individual criminal responsibility."

The investigators also accused Israel's forces of violating international law by being "systematically reckless" in their use of white phosphorous and flechette missiles in built-up areas, and of using Palestinian civilians as human shields. Incidents involving Israel's "destruction of industrial infrastructure, food production, water installations, sewage treatment and housing "may constitute a war crime," the report says.

Although the report takes Hamas to task for indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israel, it does uphold an occupied people's right of resistance. It also notes that Israel's hitherto immunity from international accountability has prevented Palestinians from receiving due compensation.

Lastly, Goldstone's report blasts Israel for depriving the people of Gaza of their means of sustenance, employment, housing, water, freedom of movement and right to leave and enter their own country, which "might justify a competent court finding that crimes against humanity have been committed."

Violations of international law and the Geneva Conventions, war crimes and crimes against humanity: Plenty of meat there for international lawyers. You might think that a respected international body such as the UN would willingly accept the advice of its own investigators and refer Israel to the ICC. But don't hold your breath! Israel's UNSC veto-wielding buddy the US is already making uncomfortable noises.

America's Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice says her country has "serious concerns" about the report's recommendations.

So there you have it! America's veto will be flourished in Israel's favour as sure as eggs are eggs. And, in this case, there is a 'people in glass houses' factor. Almost everything that Israel has been accused of doing has been done by the US in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Sad to say, but unless one of the countries that holds to the concept of Universal Jurisdiction - such as Belgium, Spain, Canada or the UK - is prepared to go out on a limb, then Goldstone's report is destined to gather dust along with the international laws and conventions it cites. The only law recognised by Israel and its friends is the law of the jungle.

Linda S. Heard is a specialist writer on Middle East affairs. She can be contacted at lheard@gulfnews.com Some of the comments may be considered for publication.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Israel friends:

USA - kills, rapes, torures and oppresses muslims in iraq
India - kills, rapes, and tortures oppresses muslims in kashmir



friends of a feather flock together...


lets see the defends of israel yoad, provost and the stupid butt licker wootness defend israel from this report. remember wootness use to carry around that "i support israel" signature....(i am sure apart from his usual family insults he wont any defense)

Prado you will see that i also support Israel as it they actually positively contribute to the world.

A few inventions of many thousands of inventions the evil jews have made include intel computer processors, mobile phones, instant messenger systems, google, copaxone, radiation free scanners and also evil Jewish sciences such as relativity and quantum physics. These are very useful things, and killing a few barbaric good for nothing muslims is a small price to pay

@bun

what r u 5?


by that same logic the Nazi were good to... they achieved great achievements in science. so what if they wacked good for nothing jews and russians?....


but it typical of blind supporters who cannot stick to the topic on hand. we r here to discuss the UN report and clear u have no answer.


besides hindus cause more trouble than any one. at least muslims have land mark success stories what does a hindu have?.... jezz we even gave u a taj mahal.

now go kiss a cow's asss now u have nothing to contribute

---

Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

---

Hitler was bad because he killed races that contributed like Jews and Russians...if he killed muslims then who really cares

well if people start wacking hindus u think any one will care?

//"lets see the defends of israel yoad, provost and the stupid butt licker wootness defend israel from this report. remember wootness use to carry around that "i support israel" signature....(i am sure apart from his usual family insults he wont any defense) "//



Sorry Prado. Before you go howling with joy at an anti-Israeli report, just check the following:
1: Who sent the commision and gave it its mandate, parameters and guidelines.
2: Who conducted the report.
3: Did the commision investigate Israel or only receive eyewitness accounts in Gaza.
4: Did the commision agree to receive Israeli evidence, eyewitness accounts and info, or was it exclusive to Gaza?

Make a little check, it will wipe the smirk right off your face .

and how does it change the validity of the report...it was a fact finding report... u do realise the UN doesnt do this kind of things for fun?...


come on even the aussie media was reporting the same kind of stuff from it;s reporters on the ground. and australia is a fan of israel...

"Led by Justice Richard J. Goldstone - a South African judge who served as Chief Prosecutor for the UN's Rwanda and former Yugoslavia international criminal tribunals - the report pulls no punches."


a supporter of israel...............

i am still smiling

//"and how does it change the validity of the report...it was a fact finding report... u do realise the UN doesnt do this kind of things for fun?... "//



The UN? No, but the UNHRC which formed the commision definately does.

Read the following:



Council's position on Israel
The UN Human Rights Council, like its predecessor the UN Human Rights Commission, has been criticised by mainly Western countries for focusing too much on Israel.[18] By April 2007, the Council had passed nine resolutions condemning Israel and had been the only country the UN Human Rights Council had specifically condemned.[19][20] By comparison, toward Sudan, a country with severe human rights abuses in Darfur as documented by the Council's work groups, it has only expressed "deep concern."[19]

The council voted on 30 June 2006 to make a review of possible human rights abuses by Israel a permanent feature of every council session. The Councils special rapporteur on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is its only expert mandate with no year of expiry. The resolution, which was sponsored by Organization of the Islamic Conference, passed by a vote of 29 to 12 with five abstentions. Human Rights Watch urged it to look at international human rights and humanitarian law violations committed by Palestinian armed groups as well. Human Rights Watch called on the council to avoid the selectivity that discredited its predecessor and urged it to hold special sessions on other urgent situations, such as Darfur.[21]

At its Second Special Session in August 2006, the Council announced the establishment of a High-Level Commission of Inquiry charged with probing allegations that Israel systematically targeted and killed Lebanese civilians during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict.[22] The resolution was passed by a vote of 27 in favour to 11 against, with 8 abstentions. Before and after the vote several member states and NGOs objected that by targeting the resolution solely at Israel and failing to address Hezbollah attacks on Israeli civilians, the Council risked damaging its credibility. The members of the Commission of Inquiry, as announced on 1 September 2006, are Clemente Baena Soares of Brazil, Mohamed Chande Othman of Tanzania, and Stelios Perrakis of Greece. The Commission noted that its report on the conflict would be incomplete without fully investigating both sides, but that "the Commission is not entitled, even if it had wished, to construe [its charter] as equally authorizing the investigation of the actions by Hezbollah in Israel,"[23] as the Council had explicitly prohibited it from investigating the actions of Hezbollah.

On 29 November 2006, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan criticised the Human Rights Council for "disproportionate focus on violations by Israel" while neglecting other parts of the world such as Darfur, which had what he termed "graver" crises.[24][25] Annan reiterated this position in his formal address on 8 December 2006 (International Human Rights Day), noting the Commission's "disproportionate focus on violations by Israel. Not that Israel should be given a free pass. Absolutely not. But the Council should give the same attention to grave violations committed by other states as well."[26]

On 20 June 2007, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon joined Western nations in criticising the world body's own Human Rights Council for picking on Israel as part of an agreement on its working rules. A UN statement said, "The Secretary-General is disappointed at the council's decision to single out only one specific regional item given the range and scope of allegations of human rights violations throughout the world." The European Union, Canada and the United States attacked the singling-out of Israel's role in the Palestinian territories for continued special investigation, under the deal reached in Geneva two days earlier.
The Geneva meeting aroused further controversy after Cuba and Belarus, both accused of abuses, were removed from a list of nine special mandates, which included North Korea, Cambodia and Sudan, carried forward from the defunct Commission.[3]The Council's charter preserves the watchdog's right to appoint special investigators for countries whose human rights records are of particular concern, something many developing states have long opposed. Commenting on Cuba and Belarus, the UN statement said Ban noted "that not having a Special Rapporteur assigned to a particular country does not absolve that country from its obligations under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights." The United States said a day before the UN statement that the Council deal raised serious questions about whether the new body could be unbiased. Alejandro Wolff, deputy US permanent representative at the United Nations, accused the council of "a pathological obsession with Israel" and also denounced its action on Cuba and Belarus. "I think the record is starting to speak for itself," he told journalists.[4][5]

Addressing the United Nations General Assembly on 25 September 2007, U.S. President George W. Bush highlighted points such as "dictatorship... [in] Belarus, North Korea, Syria, and Iran, brutal regimes deny their people the fundamental rights enshrined in the Universal Declaration," "the situation in Burma, where a military junta has imposed a 19-year reign of fear. Basic freedoms of speech, assembly, and worship are severely restricted. Ethnic minorities are persecuted. Forced child labor, human trafficking, and rape are common. ... In Cuba, the long rule of a cruel dictator is nearing its end. ... In Zimbabwe, ordinary citizens suffer under a tyrannical regime. ... In Sudan, innocent civilians are suffering repression and in the Darfur region, many are losing their lives to genocide."

The president added: "The goals I've outlined today cannot be achieved overnight and they cannot be achieved without reform in this vital institution. The United States is committed to a strong and vibrant United Nations. Yet the American people are disappointed by the failures of the Human Rights Council. This body has been silent on repression by regimes from Havana to Caracas to Pyongyang and Tehran while focusing its criticism excessively on Israel. To be credible on human rights in the world, the United Nations must reform its own Human Rights Council."[6]

The UNHRC President Doru Costea responded that: "I agree with him. The functioning of the Council must be constantly improved." He added that the Council must examine the behaviour of all parties involved in complex disputes and not place just one state under the magnifying glass.[27][28] .

Speaking at the IDC's Herzliya Conference in Israel in January 2008, Dutch Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen criticized the actions of the Human Rights Council actions against Israel. "At the United Nations, censuring Israel has become something of a habit, while Hamas's terror is referred to in coded language or not at all. The Netherlands believes the record should be set straight, both in New York and at the Human Rights Council in Geneva," Verhagen said.

As of January 24, 2008, Israel has been condemned 15 times in less than two years since the council was established. Myanmar (formerly Burma), has also been condemned by the council.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Council

//"a supporter of israel...............

i am still smiling"//



Look at the composition, not specific leadership (Goldstone himself said that the commision would have been even more harsh had his membership not "moderated it"):

"one of the missions four members, Professor Christine Chinkin of the London School of Economics, had expressed prejudgmental assertions, including that the rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas do not amount to an armed attack entitling Israel to rely on self-defence. The other two mission members are Hina Jilani, a Pakistani jurist "
http://www.economist.com/world/middleeast-africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14445878


Thus, two out of the four members of the commision were allready blatently anti-Israeli to begin with. Now go read the article I posted regarding the UNHRC and we can continue from there.

"A few inventions of many thousands of inventions the evil jews have made include intel computer processors, mobile phones, instant messenger systems, google, copaxone, radiation free scanners and also evil Jewish sciences such as relativity and quantum physics. These are very useful things, and killing a few barbaric good for nothing muslims is a small price to pay"

Indians too have made humble contributions here, particularly in "intel computer processors", hotmail and stuff. But then again, we are allies here.

Lies like prado posted will keep coming, thats something Israel will have to learn to live with. If the arab mullahs and their muslim lackeys had focussed on their own development instead of plotting against the "evil juice" then middle east would had been a better place.

I wish Israel was as brutal as u make them to be. Palestine would be over n we dont have to put up with the islamic ragheads whining n b1tching in WAFF.




colours of Kaziranga

A few inventions of many thousands of inventions the evil jews have made include intel computer processors, mobile phones, instant messenger systems, google, copaxone, radiation free scanners and also evil Jewish sciences such as relativity and quantum physics. These are very useful things, and killing a few barbaric good for nothing muslims is a small price to pay happy.gif

I wasn't aware that all these were invented in Israel.

.

Turkey and Azerbaijan are now good friends with Israel as well. How lovely.

Furthermore, the United Nations should focus on Israel. One of several countries currently committing human rights violations on a daily basis.

There are far more countries then Israel committing far worse crimes. I will never listen to a human rights council that has Saudi Arabia on it, or basically any Arab nation till they themselves learn what human rights are and learn what bias is.

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind usimmensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."


"As a Internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

//"Furthermore, the United Nations should focus on Israel. One of several countries currently committing human rights violations on a daily basis. "//


The UN IS focusing on Israel. 80% of its resolutions were directed at it, ignoring some of the worst human rights violators on earth. On one day Sri Lanka can liquidate 3 villeges, and Israel destroy an illegal home in E.Jerusalem.. guess what the UN will focus on?

in such conflict zones , human right violations are unavoidable, it happens everywhere, meanwhile, Israel is a democratic and transparent country and violations can not be sweeped under the carpet like it happens in other regimes (for ex. Russia). So you can hear news and report about violations from israel in daily basis while you can hear nothing about much worst incidents.


For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-

The entire post-WW2 UN system is built on fighting systems like Israel. But for some odd reason Israel is a UN member and recognized as legal. The least the UN can do to stay legitimate is focus on Israel's crimes.

---

//"in such conflict zones , human right violations are unavoidable, it happens everywhere, meanwhile, Israel is a democratic and transparent country and violations can not be sweeped under the carpet like it happens in other regimes (for ex. Russia). So you can hear news and report about violations from israel in daily basis while you can hear nothing about much worst incidents. "//


So, according to you, the UN should ignore human rights violations which dwarf Israel's, just because those countries manage to hide them better? Just so you know, the UN knows all about such violations, but simply doesnt care to deal with them. Furthermore, the UNHRC and General assembly (made up largely of such human rights violators) purposely prevents any sanctions or investigations on countries like Syria, Cuba, Sudan (partially succesfully) or Turkey.

To make my point clearer on the UNHRC, I would reccomend you watch the following piece of footage on how that organization actually works. Pretty eye-opening:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMEw0lZ3k_Y&feature=player_embedded

//"The entire post-WW2 UN system is built on fighting systems like Israel. But for some odd reason Israel is a UN member and recognized as legal. The least the UN can do to stay legitimate is focus on Israel's crimes. "//



Israel's actions are far more 'legal' and far less brutal than the vast majority of countries in conflict today and in the past, probably more than all of them, yet it is the recipient of 80% of UN resolutions. Had Turkey been in such a spotlight, the Kurds would have allready had a country in Eastern Turkey.

Israel's actions are far more 'legal' and far less brutal than the vast majority of countries in conflict today and in the past, probably more than all of them, yet it is the recipient of 80% of UN resolutions.

----------

Jewish actions are NOT the main problem. I agree there are many more groups that commit worse crimes. However where Jews commit crime and with what power your commit it, is the main problem.

The creation of a Jewish state in the ME is the problem that contradicts with the new world order mentality.




Had Turkey been in such a spotlight, the Kurds would have allready had a country in Eastern Turkey.

-----------

Shoving Arabs in refugee camps, you thought we did the same. There are more kurds in Istanbul then South East Turkey. So good luck with giving freedom to kurds.

---

//"Shoving Arabs in refugee camps, you thought we did the same. There are more kurds in Istanbul then South East Turkey. So good luck with giving freedom to kurds. "//


Arabs put Palestinians into refugee camps. When you ethnically cleansed the Greeks, Greece, unlike the Arabs, actually took the greek refugees in. As I said, countries like Turkey who commit far worse human rights violation (not to speak of countries like Russia, Sri-Lanka or China), are pretty much immune.

Turkey has spent a decade making up for her past crimes and continues to do so. Israel has not shown one tenth of the dedacation to make up for her wrongs. Turkey has mechanisms to make right her mistakes while Israel has nothing even close to that. Your racist people still believe they are the chosen ones that can just go and grap Palestinian lands and that is exactly what they are doing today in 2009. The only and only thing Israel works on to improve is her image not her wrong doings.

---

//"Turkey has spent a decade making up for her past crimes and continues to do so. "//



Really? So have they allowed the ethnically cleansed cypriot greeks to return to Northern Cyprus? Nope. Did it dismantle the settlements in the same area? Allso no. Kurdish Autonomy? Never. Ironic, isnt it, that the Palestinians received from Israel far more than the Kurds from Turkey, or any other refugees you created. And your 'making up comment'? Cosmetic changes in the judicial system in order to join the EU? Not very impressive, considering the above I've mentioned.




//"Israel has not shown one tenth of the dedacation to make up for her wrongs."//


Hilarious, considering what I mentioned above .

If Israel does to the palestinians what the Sri Lankans did to the Tamils then thr wont b any conflict in Israel. Read about how the LTTE was destroyed so swiftly, effective yes, but 1000 innocents died to get one LTTE terrorist. If a LTTE is taking refuge in a village the entire village is surrounded and destroyed, Israel if they did the smae the mullahs in Arab states would b dancing with their camels like crazy.

And look at what phuckistan is doing in SWAT, the same tactics used by the lankans. Declare war against your own population to get a few 100 ragheads. Not only this but after the war is over their is retribution against the local civillians as well. UNHRC doesnt comment on phuckistan creating and nurturing terror groups to strike other countries but UN will comment on Israel?

Israels only crime is thatey they are jews and outnumbered by the Arabs and muslim states some 50 to 1. They have not started the Gulf wars, the Arabs did. They dont chant death to muslims, the Arabs chant death to Israel.

They are a small country trying to live on with their lives, instead of fighting them the Arabs should learn how Israel transformed a hithertho inhospitable land into a success story.

In a conflict zone crimes may happen, i am not saying every Israeli soldier is innocent. There may be criminals in them. Every army has rotten eggs of its own, thats why there is Military Police and military tribunals to bring them to book. Problem is that if a single Israeli soldier commits a war crime then the entire Israeli country gets blamed.




colours of Kaziranga

There are far more countries then Israel committing far worse crimes. I will never listen to a human rights council that has Saudi Arabia on it, or basically any Arab nation till they themselves learn what human rights are and learn what bias is.**************


RE: and guess whose fault is that??


u want take a guess


USA......with it;s blind support for the Royal family... read the "House of Saud" for all the juicy details


saudi arabia and syria have committed grave crimes against thier own people, case in point 1982 massacre at hama where 20,000 men women and children were butchered. the saudis did the same against shias too.....


the thing is not a single sane muslim will defend KSA or syria .. israel did alot of cold blooded killing and so did the syrians and ksa..

such killings are unacceptable regardless who does it PERIOD

//"RE: and guess whose fault is that??


u want take a guess


USA......with it;s blind support for the Royal family... "//



Ahh, bull**** mate. Im sorry, but you single out a specific Arab dictatorship that is supported by the US. Syria isnt. Iraq and Egypt, when their dictators took power, were anti-American. So is Lybia and Jordan.



//"the thing is not a single sane muslim will defend KSA or syria .. "//


Not a single sane muslim seems willing to openly go against and criticise a muslim country, that in 3 weeks killed more people than Israel did in 80 years. Either they justify it, or they quickly say 'its wrong' and return to the issue of Israel, thus, simply copping out of dealing with the issue.

This UN report by the Anti-Semitic Judge from SA is pure nonsense.
First of all, they never gave Israeli a chance to participate in the investigation.
They didn't condemn the other side for it's crimes, all those photos such as the one showing the use of phosphorus are fake, and we know that they killed their own babies and blamed the Jews for it.
How can they let a Anti-Semitic Judge who hates Jews with every fiber of his being pass judgment on the only peaceful people in the middle east?

//"This UN report by the Anti-Semitic Judge from SA is pure nonsense."//


No one apart from yourself used the anti-semitic card, or called him an anti-semite. You seem to be the first to use the term in an attempt to stifle debate.


//"First of all, they never gave Israeli a chance to participate in the investigation. "//



They did, and Israel officially refused, so as not to give the commision credibility. Yet, under the table, Israel sent the commision hundreds of pages of evidence, eyewitness accounts, photographs, and Israeli high court rulings. All were ignored in the final report.



//"They didn't condemn the other side for it's crimes"//



They focused allmost exclusively on Israel, and 'surprisingly' found no evidence that Hamas, an Islamist Palestinian group that controls the densely populated Gaza Strip while refusing to recognise Israel, deliberately fired rockets from civilian houses, stored weapons in mosques and used the basement of one of Gazas main hospitals as a military command centre. (yet more evidence of Hamas's control of the scene).


//"all those photos such as the one showing the use of phosphorus are fake, and we know that they killed their own babies and blamed the Jews for it. "//



Israel admitted the use of WP, which was legal. This was not the issue.

Ah, I see my old friend Prado has invoked my name.

Hmmmmm

Iran - kills, rapes and oppresses Muslims.
Pakistan - kills, rapes and oppresses Muslims.
Turkey - kills, rapes and oppresses Muslims

I think I see a pattern here. The complaint isn't about the killing, raping or oppressing Muslims, right? Only who does it. I see now Prado how what passes for your mind works my demented friend. I think though, if you put your foil hat back on, it will prevent the CIA from beaming its mind control to you so that then Muslims would be safe in the world again.





Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

Ahh, bull**** mate. Im sorry, but you single out a specific Arab dictatorship that is supported by the US. Syria isnt. Iraq and Egypt, when their dictators took power, were anti-American. So is Lybia and Jordan. **************

RE:

to rectify some of your flawed points u gave

iraq was supported by the US during the 80s.... and it was during this time they used chemical weapons against civilians.... yet the west was all mum?.. y?

egypt is america biggest lapdog in the ME, but still carries no mass killing just a general oppression

Libya : did they massacre people and put them into gettos?? err...NO

Jordan: is pro american and reconzies israel, and your problem with them is what?




**t a single sane muslim seems willing to openly go against and criticise a muslim country, that in 3 weeks killed more people than Israel did in 80 years. Either they justify it, or they quickly say 'its wrong' and return to the issue of Israel, thus, simply copping out of dealing with the **************

RE: i dont see who has justifies any of this.... all we see is your supporters justifying your killings.

---

Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

---

//"to rectify some bull crap u gave

iraq was supported by the US during the 80s.... and it was during this time they used chemical weapons against civilians.... yet the west was all mum?.. y?

egypt is america biggest lapdog in the ME, but still carries no mass killing just a general oppression"//



Oh dear, reading comprehension. I said that the Egyptian and Iraqi dictatorships have arisen decades before US support, and commited many of their worst crimes at a time when the US was deeply oppsoed to them.


//"Libya : did they massacre people and put them into gettos?? err...NO "//



Ofcourse it did. Like the rest of the Arab world, it ethnically cleansed and massacred a large part of its Jewish community, and then placed the Palestinian refugees in Ghetto's. But, to its defence, the rest of the arab world was worse.



//"RE: i dont see who has justifies any of this.... all we see is your supporters justifying your killings. "//


Because even if you accept the worst blood libel against Israel, muslim on muslim massacres were still hundreds of times more bloody, yet who gives a damn in the muslim world? After posting dozens of anti-Israeli threads, when have you made a thread about Darfur? What about the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the Arab world, or of 400,000 Palestinians from Kuwait, or 30,000 dead in Hama (syria)? The muslim world only cares about who the perpetrator is. It doesnt care that people die, and you are a prime example of that. Goddamn fake moral outrage.

@dear uncle provost

i see u have no response to the article.... tsk tsk

getting desperate r we now???...

why dont u take drive in one of your classic cars, i believe one of them is a Nazi sledge (Mercedes benz in case u didnt get it)... though i would advise u not to drive it around your jewish buddies ..... they might mistake u for u know what...

//"i see u have no response to the article.... tsk tsk

getting desperate r we now???... "//



The article has been thoughroughly debunked allready. Why should Mike task himself with repeating something allready said?

Oh dear, reading comprehension.*********

RE: not really read below...

******** I said that the Egyptian and Iraqi dictatorships have arisen decades before US support, and commited many of their worst crimes at a time when the US was deeply oppsoed to them.************

RE: and again i ask u what crimes did they commit?... did they masscare POW soldiers in the desert like israel SP or para did???

enlighten us of egyptian mass crimes........plz


again iraq did most of it;s brutal crimes under US support... be it against the kurds or iranians..







*******Ofcourse it did. Like the rest of the Arab world, it ethnically cleansed and massacred a large part of its Jewish community, ***********

RE: and may i remind u that these very arabs gave u refuge against crusading christians...

much of the ethic cleanisng took place after 1948... but yes it is wrong on part of the arabs nevertheless





*************and then placed the Palestinian refugees in Ghetto's.***********

RE: funny the whole world says the israelis did that...





********* But, to its defence, the rest of the arab world was worse********

RE: i dont think so. UAE and the rest of GCC are very prosperous, iraq was ok till 1991, jordan though not rich is easily better than west bank, libya has so much money it doesnt know what to do with it,lebanon till the civil war broke out in 1975 was huge a commerical centre and fairly prosperous,

ya you can say egypt is crap but definately better than those refugee camps.


so i dont know where u get this arabs countries are lousy places to live, a hub of backwardness an so on. the arabs r more progressive than u like to think.

but the issue here is about human rights here






**********, muslim on muslim massacres were still hundreds of times more bloody, yet who gives a damn in the muslim world? **********

RE: u dont know the whole story. most arab states had censorship of TV and media. satelite TV change all that. people now know what happened, and no the governments cannot do what they did earlier.

and yes we do give a dam.









************After posting dozens of anti-Israeli threads, when have you made a thread about Darfur?********

RE: i agree u got me there...i need to cover sudan 2.....


BTW how is it anti israel thread. it was just fact finding report and usually the party in question never accepts it. ok the title is racy ... but then again so r all my threads




**********What about the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the Arab world,**********

RE: so? when i have ever said arabs are 100% right?? they fcuked up too



********or of 400,000 Palestinians from Kuwait*********

RE: those goof balls sided with the wrong side... they kind of asked for it...kuwait gave them jobs and a place to stay and this is how they repayed them?




,******* or 30,000 dead in Hama (syria)? ************

RE: 20k.... but i already covered them. besides it was 1982



**********The muslim world only cares about who the perpetrator is.***********

RE: and who doesnt



********It doesnt care that people die, and you are a prime example of that. *******


RE: what is so fake about my outrage?.... i have posted many articles on pakistan critical of it;s human rights record, particularly from the police. I also updated the red mosque operation where i documented that SSG also killed many women and children as well as the circumstances why they did it. earlier i argued with mike murphy that no civilians were killed, but i corrected and updated the story as i got to know more information.

u havent read them that is another issue


*******Goddamn fake moral outrage*******


RE: temper temper..... u going to get a heart attack..

The article has been thoughroughly debunked allready************

RE: oh really...


it is UN report and most government and media (exept US & israel) are probably going to review it and give it alot of credibility regardless of what your government says or counter claims

---

Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

---

//"RE: and again i ask u what crimes did they commit?... did they masscare POW soldiers in the desert like israel SP or para did??? "//



Egypt massacred close to 30,000 Yemeni's (2 times the number of Palestinian casualties in 80 years by Israel), and Iraq allso killed thousands of civilians prior to 1980 while quelling unrest.
Egypt itself ethnically cleansed 50,000 Jews.



//"RE: and may i remind u that these very arabs gave u refuge against crusading christians... "//



And massacred us on other occasions. Still doesnt change the fact that these Arab nations did two things: First, ethnically cleansing their Jewish communities, and then either placing the Palestinians in camps, massacring them, and occasionally ethnically cleansing themselves.



//"RE: funny the whole world says the israelis did that... "//



We didn't build any of the Ghetto's, nor did we issue an order for them, supervise them, or anything really. Those are all situated in the Arab world, where Palestinians are jailed in horrible camps, unable to work, receive any rights, stuck in a few sq miles of territory, just so they could be used as a political card against Israel. Yet... as usual, I don't see the muslim world railing against it, since the culprit is not Israel.




//"RE: u dont know the whole story. most arab states had censorship of TV and media. "//



I seem to know the story, yet the only info you are 'aware of' is anti-israeli claims. When it comes to the far greater Arab/muslim massacres, suddenly you are oblivious. Well, since Im aware of it, there is no reason you shouldnt be.




//"RE: i agree u got me there...i need to cover sudan 2..... "//



I didn't point a finger at you as an individual, but rather an example of a symptom. Muslim criticism of some of the worst human rights abuses in the world (many of them in the muslim world) is non-existant. Either they simply don't deal with the issues, or they deny them outright (this, not in your case).


//"********or of 400,000 Palestinians from Kuwait*********

RE: those goof balls sided with the wrong side... they kind of asked for it...kuwait gave them jobs and a place to stay and this is how they repayed them? "//



So, on the one hand you oppose 'collective punishment' when conducted by Israel, but justify it in Kuwaits case. Right on!





//"RE: 20k.... but i already covered them. besides it was 1982 "//



Right, it was 27 years ago, yet the Muslim world doesnt stop dealing with Israel's war of independence....which was 61 years ago.




//"RE: what is so fake about my outrage.... i have posted many articles on pakistan critical of it;s human rights record, particularly from the police. I also updated the red mosque operation where i documented that SSG also killed many women and children as well as the circumstances why they did it. earlier i argued with mike murphy that no civilians were killed, but i corrected and updated the story as i got to know more information. "//



Defending a faction within your country versus another faction does not equate with impartiality on the human rights issue.

"I think though, if you put your foil hat back on, it will prevent the CIA from beaming its mind control to you so that then Muslims would be safe in the world again."







colours of Kaziranga