Brown move to cut UK nuclear subs

The Lib Dems said keeping Trident on a 'like-for-like' basis was 'unrealistic'
The prime minister is to tell the United Nations that he is willing to cut the UK's fleet of Trident missile-carrying submarines from four to three.

Gordon Brown will make the offer at a meeting of the UN Security Council over halting the spread of nuclear weapons and reducing existing stockpiles.

The proposed cuts come as the government searches for ways to reduce the massive deficit in public finances.

However Number 10 said keeping the UK's nuclear deterrent was "non-negotiable".

At the UN meeting, Mr Brown will call for all nations to come together to achieve the long-term ambition of a nuclear-free world.

He will say: "If we are serious about the ambition of a nuclear-free world we will need statesmanship, not brinkmanship."

Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg welcomed the proposals, saying they were an important development.


We're not facing the Cold War threat in the same way that we once were

Nick Clegg
Liberal Democrat Leader
He told the BBC: "I really do welcome that finally the dam has burst on this.

"It's just unrealistic for us to believe that we can foot the £100bn like-for-like replacement costs for Trident over the next 25 years.

"I think the strategic context in which that decision is taking place is very different as well - we're not facing the Cold War threat in the same way that we once were."

The government has already announced that it has cut the UK's stockpile of Trident warheads from 200 to 160, and many Labour MPs would like the government to scrap the weapon altogether.

Officials travelling with the prime minister warned that reducing the number of submarines from four to three would not result in a proportionate 25% cut in cost, as more would have to be spent to maintain the overall deterrent.

US President Obama is chairing the meeting of the UN Security Council on Thursday as part of the process of drawing up a replacement for the Non-Proliferation Treaty, designed to stop countries developing nuclear weapons.

Mr Obama has said he will try to negotiate with Moscow to reduce US and Russian nuclear warheads - which make up 95% of the world's total - from 2,000 each to 1,500.

However the most pressing issue for leaders at the meeting will be how to stop the further spread of weapons to non-nuclear states.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8270092.stm


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WAFF syndrome explained:

= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.

= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
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Brown ready to reduce nuclear subs fleet
Wednesday 23 September 2009

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown is due to tell the UN Security Council that he is ready to scale down Britain's fleet of nuclear missile-carrying submarines from four to three in order to support a global disarmament effort.


AFP - Prime Minister Gordon Brown will announce Britain is prepared to scale back its nuclear capability as part of global disarmament efforts, Downing Street confirmed Wednesday.

Brown will reveal Thursday at a special session of the UN Security Council plans to cut the number of planned replacement nuclear submarines from four to three, a spokeswoman confirmed.

Brown will say it is time for "statesmanship not brinkmanship" on nuclear disarmament if the ambition to create a nuclear-free world is genuine, in a separate speech to the UN General Assembly on Wednesday.

"If we are serious about the ambition of a nuclear-free world we will need statesmanship, not brinkmanship," the prime minister will say.

Brown will then outline the move at the special session of the UN Security Council devoted to the issue of nuclear non-proliferation.

He will reaffirm Britain's commitment to maintaining an independent nuclear deterrent, but is prepared to reduce the number of planned new submarines that can launch nuclear missiles.

The move is set to cut billions of pounds (dollars) from the defence budget over the next decade, at the same time as Brown's government looks to cut spending to reduce public debt in the wake of the worst recession in decades.

US President Barack Obama will preside over the special session aimed partly at seeking a consensus on the issue of Iran's nuclear programme.

The United States will also hold talks with its five counterparts -- Britain, France, Germany, China and Russia -- that have for years been negotiating with Iran on its nuclear programme.

Britain's move comes ahead of next year's review of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which aims to limit the spread of nuclear weapons around the world, and follows a decision by Washington and Moscow to -(end)


http://www.france24.com/en/20090923-gordon-brown-ready-scale-down-nuclear-sub-fleet-back-global-disarmament-britain-uk-submarine-trident

Thunder Supports Rafale
http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

WAFF syndrome explained:

= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.

= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown is due to tell the UN Security Council that he is ready to scale down Britain's fleet of nuclear missile-carrying submarines from four to three in order to support a global disarmament effort.
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Thats about as gay as Muse's new album, anyways, I think its pretty much written in concrete somewhere that four is the minimum.....

For sure the Russians and Chinese are not taking note, the Borei is making more progression then any other Russian Naval program (counting the hulls, not the Bulava), and the Chinese have started work on the sixth Jin SSBN, thats one more then ONI predicted..............

This shows exactly how much this particular Labour government knows about the British nuclear submarine force. An absolute minimum number of SSBNs to maintain an active detterrent is 4 not 3.

It would have been wiser in my opinion to offer that the new generation of British SSBNs would be smaller and carry less Tridents (10-12) rather than the present 16 aboard the Vanguard class. That way we would still offer something substancial to the reduction of nuclear weapons overall and also save money on the development and manufacturing costs but in addition (and more importantly) we would maintain the ability to be flexible with the amount of MIRVs we deploy aboard those Tridents still in service. If we continue with the present number of 3 MIRVs aboard British Tridents it still gives the new generation of British SSBNs a considerable punch (30 nuclear detonations per vessel).

Its the submariners and their familes i feel sorry for....

3 instead of 4, simply means that a patrol will last 4mths instead of 3.

If done like that, it wont impact on 1 sub at sea 24/7.

Also it will mean refits will have to be done in half the time

We may have to replace the 3 new subs sooner than we replaced Trident, because of the extra workload, 3 subs will have to do.

Still, who cares wether we have 3 or 4, if we ever had to use them, the world is phucked anyway.

When Labour was re-elected i was totaly gutted.

Perhaps it's just me?

Thunder Supports Rafale
http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

WAFF syndrome explained:

= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.

= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm