Great pictures and all but aren't you worried that some may switch to you from THUNDER as the official WAAF punching bag?

I mean this shows the French doing good work and all
and is serriously devoid of bad remarks about us, lol!

Great pics!



When I was young I used to pray for a bike, then I realized that God doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.

As long as he doesn't claim that the Tiger is protected up to 23mm rounds all around, that Millimeter-wave Radar is a disadvantage, and claims that the Tiger has as good optics as of that of the F-35 although the target identification and engagement range is 5km.

---

Great pics, cheers.

Quote: I mean this shows the French doing good work and all and is serriously devoid of bad remarks about us, lol!

Don't confuse anti-Thunder feelings for anti-French feelings. He is the worst ambassador for France ever... whilst sadly living over here in good ol' Blighty! Thankfully, there are others who present a far more accurate picture of reasonable French people!!

Stick around... not everyone is anti-French by any means (especially not us Brits on the forum!).

AMAZING pictures.

The rotors on those tigers look crazy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"deeds, not words"

"Combat_Master)
As long as he doesn't claim that the Tiger is protected up to 23mm rounds all around,"

What makes you so sure it isn't?

Do you know what all-round for helo means?

= Its body, comprised mainly of carbon fibre reinforced polymer and Kevlar, is capable of withstanding 23mm cannon fire and is embedded with a copper and bronze grid to protect it from both lightning and electromagnetic pulses (EMP).
http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/eurocopter%20tiger.html

As for maximum speeds they are clarified by the French MinDef document.

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/base/infographies/infographie_du_tigre

Now cry us a river, spin, twist, deny, try to pass T-129 Maximum speed for Maximum cruise or Maximum with full weapon loads and generaly show how little you know about it.

What is sure is that Tiger ballistic protection is higher than that of the T-129 and that it also have a higher Maximum speed.

The extra weight is there to prove the point on protection btw, and there is no information about the Agusta A or T-129 being protected in ANY WAY vs anything heavier than 12.7mm because it is NOT as protected than the Tiger of whatever version.

The HAD ALSO have additional armour for the crew.



"Combat_Master)
that Millimeter-wave Radar is a disadvantage,"

Give me passive detection on the battlefield any time.

Passive sensors canot be detected nor jammed, radar CAN and the Tigers are linked to a fully functional battlefield info network.

In short; they do NOT need a radar to know where the ennemy is or even not to detect it with their own sensors passed weapon engagement range.

When detected from their radar emissions, active radar-equiped helos become MORE vulnerable vs fighters AND other/passive helos doing A2A, you of course can do your usual denial trick on this one too.

NOW: Doesn't Tigre features a 30mm gun that would defeat the T-129 armour protection?
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/base/infographies/infographie_du_tigre

T-129 weapon is a 20mm it wont beat Tiger ballistic protection.

END of debate, you lost this one just as you lost the previous.




"Combat_Master)
and claims that the Tiger has as good optics as of that of the F-35 although the target identification and engagement range is 5km".

STFU, LIAR!

I never mentioned F-35 in comparison to Tiger, you're bringing this one up because US optics are NOT commercialised as all-weather but VMC limited and you lost the argument on this on the Greek/Turkish forum topic on A-129/Tiger.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/248068/thread/1253895184/last-1254078466/Comparison+of+Eurocopter+Tiger+and+A-129+International

For your info, 5km is the detection range of handheld optics for detection of foot soldiers.

As i was saying there, you're living in the cave age of technology don't expect everyone to be as ingorant as yourself, we dont need to keep ourself in denial to make our cases.
http://www.thalesgroup.com/assets/0/93/238/fc06761a-3f0c-43b4-adc4-739a5bd4570e.pdf?LangType=2057

Tiger is equiped with IRIS which is dual bandwidth and can use a cooled channel as well.
http://www.sagem-ds.com/eng/site.php?spage=02020303

SAGEM doesn't give their datas the same way and those of IRIS are classified but it have a longer detection range than a handheld device and you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate otherwise.
http://www.sagem-ds.com/pdf/en/D1245.pdf

Now since you don't know W.T.F you're talking about why don't you foaking ZIP it?


Thunder Supports Rafale
http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

WAFF syndrome explained:

= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.

= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm

Look at these and see the pattern in leopardus's flaming.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1253817722/last-1254129737/2+Rafales+crash+in+the+sea

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1196975468/Rafale+crash+in+Corr%E8ze

Cet enfoire n'a AUCUN respect, souvenez vous en a l'avenir.

"Pymes75)
Don't confuse anti-Thunder feelings for anti-French feelings. He is the worst ambassador for France ever..."

Because you think your bunch of mythomaniacs inventing themself an UCAV TDV (without weapon baies and systems), 250 ships Navy, and 110 SEAD Tornado are a good example?

MORON, you just jump on the troll's bandwagon, Rob L, RMNod and yourself were surely giving a "good example" of Britain some time ago, and we won't mention your fan number one, U-Fokker who still try to emulate intelligence thinking it's looking smart...

As long as you cartooon characters are going to take the p!ss out of everyone else in the WAFF you're gonna have to live with your anti-Thunder problem, because i'm going to get you down with pure informations and evidences as usual...



"Pymes75)
whilst sadly living over here in good ol' Blighty! Thankfully, there are others who present a far more accurate picture of reasonable French people!!"

Oh here is the problem, the French living in France CANT spot your fat mouthed braging because over here is can have acces to informations related to the UK much easier.

So YOUR problem is in reality that YOU can't take the p!ss with me without getting your nose rubed in your own smelly manure, you haven't seen the end of it i'm afraid...




"Pymes75)
Stick around... not everyone is anti-French by any means (especially not us Brits on the forum!)."

You STINK of natural bigotry, hppily there are two sorts of British, your bunch and those with a BRAIN.

Or else you wouldn't need to exagerate most of what you post when it comes to US/UK technologies and gear performances, this is something so OBVIOUS that eve trying to pass this for a "Thunder" problem even looks stupid.

But it's your lot's bozzo's tactics, you can't make your case otherwise than trying to get through me, too bad you ain't good enough and that there isn't enough of you bozzos.

NOW, questions:

WHEN is your TARANIS "First UCAV in Europe" going to demonstrate UCAV capabilties by droping weapons from its internal bay with ingrated weapon systems?

When it RN going to increase their hull number?

When is RAF going to buy ALL the original and predicted Typhoon and F-35 number?

WHEN is F-35 going to supercruise and fly at M 1.8?

When is T-45 going to demonstrate its "Superior" Sampson radar capabilties in Operation by firing an ASTER otherwise than from a barge under DGA control in south France?

When is BAE going to demonstrate superior ship-building capabilties and technologies by getting the first ASTUTE in RN service?

When is Typhoon going to demonstrate a "possible" superecruise Mach of 1.5?

When is Thales UK going to become a "British" company?

When is MN going to use a "British" design for their future carrier?


= You want MORE of this? (Your tinny toon's claims here)...

I got news from you, since Jeanne D'arc, NO Frenchman is bowing to you and your definition of arrogance doesn't apply here. = STFU.


Thunder Supports Rafale
http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

WAFF syndrome explained:

= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.

= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm

Look at these and see the pattern in leopardus's flaming.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1253817722/last-1254129737/2+Rafales+crash+in+the+sea

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1196975468/Rafale+crash+in+Corr%E8ze

Cet enfoire n'a AUCUN respect, souvenez vous en a l'avenir.

great pictures... but more development aid would have been more useful....

"PradoTLC)
but more development aid would have been more useful...."

Can you be more specific?

For the time being... INFOS on the French Tigres deployed in Afganistan.


DATE:06/05/09
SOURCE:Flight International
French army seeks Tiger enhancements for Afghan debut
By Craig Hoyle

The French army is conducting a series of urgent modifications to its Eurocopter Tiger HAP attack helicopters, in advance of receiving an order to deploy the type operationally for the first time, to Afghanistan.

"We are waiting for formal initial operational capability status, and for a decision from the Joint Staff to deploy," says Lt Col Jean-Baptiste Pouret, the army's Tiger programme manager.

Enhancements to be made ahead of a combat deployment include the addition of improved air particle separators, rotor blade protection and secure communications equipment.

The aircraft will also receive additional ballistic protection for its pilots, a digital mission data recorder and combat external fuel tanks. The army has assessed but rejected adapting the Tiger's ferry tanks for the latter requirement, and is now seeking an off-the-shelf solution, says Pouret.

Environmental training for the Afghanistan deployment has already been conducted in Djibouti and in the French Alps at altitudes up to 5,000ft (1,520m), and the service has developed an immediate extraction technique that could see a downed pilot rescued by sitting on one of the Tiger's main wheels.


© Eurocopter


Procedures to transport the Tiger in the Dassault-Breguet C160 Transall and Lockheed Martin C-130 have also been validated, and are being finalised for Antonov's An-124.

Separately, the army in January conducted a test campaign using six MBDA Mistral air-to-air missiles fired from Tigers against drone targets.

While declining to speculate on when a detachment could begin, Pouret suggests "the decision-makers could be encouraged by Le Bourget", referring to June's Paris air show. "The [French] land forces are waiting impatiently for it," he adds.

Speaking at IQPC's Military Helicopter conference in London, Pouret said the army will require technical assistance from deployed Eurocopter personnel, for example during the repair of damage caused by small arms fire.

France has logged more than 5,250 flight hours with its first 19 of 40 HAP-configured Tigers, based in Pau, Valence and at a joint French/German training school in Le Luc. The type had been expected to receive initial operational capability clearance in April, with full operational status to follow by late 2010, says Pouret.

Only four of France's current Tigers are in the Standard 1 configuration, which incorporates more than 270 modifications from the first Step 1 aircraft, delivered from April 2005. Its 15 older examples will be retrofitted to the operational configuration.

Eurocopter is meanwhile expected to perform the first flight of a multirole Tiger HAD for France in June using more powerful MTRI MTR390-E engines. The aircraft - the first of 40 on order for the French army - will begin firing trials with Lockheed's AGM-114 Hellfire air-to-surface missile from September, says Pouret.

Spain's army will also receive 24 6.6t Tiger HADs, including an interim batch of six HAP-configured aircraft that will later be modified to the enhanced standard.


= Enhancements to be made ahead of a combat deployment include the addition of improved air particle separators, rotor blade protection and secure communications equipment.

= The aircraft will also receive additional ballistic protection for its pilots, a digital mission data recorder and combat external fuel tanks.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/05/06/326126/french-army-seeks-tiger-enhancements-for-afghan-debut.html

NOTE that the Tiger deployed there are NOT the final HAD configuration with the MTR390-E but are still flying in Faganistan high-altitude conditions with the xtra-weight of this version...

Here: French MinDef Official content on Tiger Combat Certification in Afganistan.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa7ke7_tigre-en-afghanistan_news

Tigre en Afghanistan
Uploaded by ministeredeladefense. - Watch the latest news videos.

Thunder Supports Rafale
http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

WAFF syndrome explained:

= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.

= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm

Look at these and see the pattern in leopardus's flaming.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1253817722/last-1254129737/2+Rafales+crash+in+the+sea

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1196975468/Rafale+crash+in+Corr%E8ze

Cet enfoire n'a AUCUN respect, souvenez vous en a l'avenir.

Marc, can't you let them be and not always react like crazy. Ca commence à devenir fatiguant et improductif!

Now, I wonder if they wouldn't need some HOT missiles to perform their combat duties, facing for instance a fortified stronghole!



FREE EASTERN TURKISTAN

Marc, can't you let them be and not always react like crazy. Ca commence à devenir fatiguant et improductif!

Now, I wonder if they wouldn't need some HOT missiles to perform their combat duties, facing for instance a fortified stronghole!

I think Ren is right. It is tiring to see all French related thread turning into a slug fest with Thunder at the middle. We also want to hear what non-French, inferior as they are , have to say. This is an international forum; they have the right to express their opinion even though we may not agree with them.


---------------------------


De Gaulle to the General Koenig, Norman hero of Bir Hakeim: "Hear and tell your troops: the whole of France is watching you, you are our pride."[

"ren2704)
Marc, can't you let them be and not always react like crazy. Ca commence à devenir fatiguant et improductif!"

Moi ce qui m'a epuise depuis longtemps c'est que vous acceptiez de vous faire passer pour des cons de facon perpetuelle et voir tous les topic Francais pourris par des idiots qui supportent pas qu'on ai ci ou ca, demontre des millier de fois, que ce soit moi ou un autre qui trinque, on vous vois rarement leur faire ce genre de remarques.

Poster des informations pour ces mecs ca equivaut a essayer de nourir des cochons avec du caviar Russe 4 etoile, pas aprecie et totalement futile.

Quand au non-Francais qui postent des informations autrement que pour se payer nos tetes, curieusement je n'ai pas de probleme avec eux.

Les trolls sont des trolls que Thunder y soit ou pas alors SVP, lachez moi la grappe et attaquez vous a la source reele du probleme.

Question: Ca vous a pris combien de temps pour reeagir sur le forum AFM et finalement decouvrir qu'apres tout, tous mes arguments etaient valides par des sources alors que les gourous type A-J vous ont traine dans la farine tout ces annees?

C'est le genre d'infos que les trolls dans le WAFF vous servent et vous en avez pas fini avec eux avec un comportement pareil (Vous aimez les baffes?)...

Les helices du CdG, la supercroisiere du Rafale, le manque de succes de Dassault a l'export, les accidents, les morts etc.

Bon apetit.


Thunder Supports Rafale
http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

WAFF syndrome explained:

= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.

= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm

Look at these and see the pattern in leopardus's flaming.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1253817722/last-1254129737/2+Rafales+crash+in+the+sea

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1196975468/Rafale+crash+in+Corr%E8ze

Cet enfoire n'a AUCUN respect, souvenez vous en a l'avenir.

"I think Ren is right. It is tiring to see all French related thread turning into a slug fest with Thunder at the middle. We also want to hear what non-French, inferior as they are , have to say. This is an international forum; they have the right to express their opinion even though we may not agree with them."


This is pure democraty, gota love it!


________________________________________________________________________________________

France is an advanced society, note that we desagree but aren't ready to kill each other just yet, there was desagreement between French Resistance and De Gaulle too.

Ici Londres.


The Tiger combat helicopter in Afghanistan


After their recent deployment on the ground in Afghanistan, the Tiger combat helicopters were tested during a first operation on the night of Saturday, September 3, 2009.

Despite the difficulties and contingencies that have marked this mission, the success of the operation confirmed the excellent operational capabilities of TIGRE.


Le Tigre (photo credits: Mr. Gillis)

On Saturday, September 5, the DETHELICO PAMIR has been tasked extraction of 23 allied soldiers in contact with insurgents over two distinct positions about 70 km from Kabul.

Two TIGRE CARACAL and two were deployed in this area of operation.

The detachment, while engaged in a medical evacuation benefit of BATFRA, has designed its discretion in a short timeframe. From 01H10 in the morning the patrol consisting of two tigers was on the combat zone. After making radio contact with the groups on the ground to confirm the friendly positions, the patrol has conducted several attacks in the 30 mm gun.

The first CARACAL conducted while the recovery of two staff were injured. At takeoff, he was shot by a firing RPG7 that exploded about twenty meters from the camera.

Benefiting from the opening of fire by his shot, the crew successfully take off. The patrol TIGRE engaged the enemy artillery and rocket and destroyed the target (as confirmed by the ground troops). The second CARACAL evacuated when the last soldiers.

On order, TIGRE remained on the area to scan the vicinity of the two positions of recovery, and the trough nearby. No insurgents were found, allowing the patrol to return to its base.

This intervention led to an inventory of certain procedures and equipment on the ground in Afghanistan. Le TIGRE has demonstrated excellent operational capabilities under fire from the enemy and missions including close combat attack (CCA).

Its firepower, the effectiveness of its self-protection systems and liaison confirms its ability to be involved in contact in a multinational, joint and combined arms.

The decisive effect caused by the helicopter attack against the insurgents has also been highlighted.

The escort of helicopters maneuvering by armed helicopters proved essential, especially in difficult periods that are the approaches / departures and boarding / landing zone of personal insecurity.
Google Translationof this MinDef Document:


Après leur récent déploiement sur le terrain afghan, les hélicoptères de combat TIGRE ont été mis à lépreuve lors dune première opération menée dans la nuit du samedi 3 septembre 2009. Malgré les difficultés et les imprévus qui ont marqué cette mission, la réussite de lintervention confirme les excellentes capacités opérationnelles du TIGRE.


Le Tigre (crédits photos : M. GILLIS)

Le samedi 5 septembre, le DETHELICO PAMIR a reçu pour mission lextraction de 23 soldats alliés, en contact avec des insurgés, répartis sur deux positions distinctes à environ 70 km de Kaboul. Deux TIGRE et deux CARACAL ont été déployés sur ce terrain dopération.
Le détachement, engagé alors dans une évacuation médicale au profit du BATFRA, a conçu sa manuvre dans des délais restreints. Dès 01H10 du matin, la patrouille composée des deux TIGRE était sur la zone des combats. Après une prise de contact radio avec les groupes au sol afin de confirmer les positions amies, la patrouille a mené plusieurs attaques au canon de 30 mm.
Le premier CARACAL a effectué alors la récupération du personnel dont deux étaient blessés. Au décollage, il a été pris pour cible par un tir de RPG7 qui a explosé à une vingtaine de mètres de lappareil. Bénéficiant de louverture du feu par son tireur, léquipage a réussi le décollage. La patrouille de TIGRE a engagé ladversaire au canon et à la roquette et a détruit lobjectif (confirmation par les troupes au sol). Le deuxième CARACAL a évacué alors les derniers soldats. Sur ordre, les TIGRE sont restés sur la zone afin de scruter les abords des deux positions de récupération, ainsi que le talweg tout proche. Aucun insurgé na été décelé, ce qui a permis à la patrouille de retourner sur sa base.
Cette intervention a permis de faire un état des lieux de certaines procédures et du matériel sur le terrain afghan. Le TIGRE a fait preuve dexcellentes capacités opérationnelles sous le feu de ladversaire et notamment en missions close combat attack (CCA). Sa puissance de feu, lefficacité de ses systèmes dautoprotection et de liaison confirme son aptitude à être engagé au contact dans un cadre multinational, interarmes et interarmées.
Leffet décisif provoqué par lhélicoptère dattaque contre les insurgés a également été mis en évidence. Lescorte des hélicoptères de manuvre par des hélicoptères armés sest révélée fondamentale, notamment dans les phases délicates que constituent les approches/décollages et embarquements/débarquements de personnels en zone dinsécurité.
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/actualite_et_dossiers/l_helicoptere_de_combat_tigre_en_afghanistan

Thunder Supports Rafale
http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

WAFF syndrome explained:

= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.

= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm

Look at these and see the pattern in leopardus's flaming.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1253817722/last-1254129737/2+Rafales+crash+in+the+sea

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1196975468/Rafale+crash+in+Corr%E8ze

Cet enfoire n'a AUCUN respect, souvenez vous en a l'avenir.

Am I right in saying that the Tigers currently in theatre aren't armed with Hellfires or equivalent? If so that is a pretty big hole in the armament - the French really need to rush the Hellfire integration though to give them a standoff precision weapon in theatre.

On a related note, it seems the Australian Tigers will be given some of the French mods (particularly the added armour) to enable them to be used in Afghanistan. The current word is our Tigers will be ready for an Afghan deployment at the end of next year, which is getting some of the 1 Avn boys wet.

"SargeAUS)
Am I right in saying that the Tigers currently in theatre aren't armed with Hellfires or equivalent?"

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/content/download/152089/1315890/file/tigre_inter.pdf

HAD version is capable of using Helfire and is curently being delivered to AdT.
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/decouverte/materiels/helicopteres_et_avions/tigre

It first flew in France on 14th december 2007.

These sub-versions were deployed (as often is the case with French assets) with lower capabilties more for validation purposes than anything else, the troops also apreciates this support but the full HAD version is not yet available for deployement.

I don't know when (and IF) AdT will delpoy the HAD in Afganistan in the future but it is not going to be before 2012.

= Meanwhile the HAD version of the Tiger, due to enter service with France and Spain in 2012, is moving rapidly ahead.The DGA's Le Berre says first flight with the uprated Rolls-Royce-Turbomeca MTR390E engine, now fitted on pre-production aircraft PS01, has passed ground tests and will fly "in the summer".
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/06/15/327802/paris-air-show-frances-tiger-poised-for-afghanistan-deployment.html

http://www.efa.terre.defense.gouv.fr/



"SargeAUS)
If so that is a pretty big hole in the armament - the French really need to rush the Hellfire integration though to give them a standoff precision weapon in theatre".

There is no need to ingegrate the weapon to the HAD version as it is already done as a primary anti-tank weapon, what they need to do is to clear them for combat with the AdT Squadrons, then validate them in theater as was the case for this version.



"SargeAUS)
On a related note, it seems the Australian Tigers will be given some of the French mods (particularly the added armour) to enable them to be used in Afghanistan".

They will do the job just FINE.



"SargeAUS)
The current word is our Tigers will be ready for an Afghan deployment at the end of next year, which is getting some of the 1 Avn boys wet".

Good news for your troops as well as that of other coalition allies.

DATE:15/06/09
SOURCE:Flight Daily News
PARIS AIR SHOW: France's Tiger poised for Afghanistan deployment
By Kieran Daly

Gen Monique Legrand-Larroche, head of state helicopter programmes at national procurement agency DGA, declares: "The technical aspect is ready, but the political decision has not yet been made to engage Tiger."

Her colleague Col Pascal Point, helicopter programme co-ordination officer, general joint staff equipment division adds: "The decision to engage Tiger is of course a political one and a very important topic because it is a new helicopter. What I can say with confidence is that the helicopter is ready to be engaged due to the very important effort made by industry and the DGA programme team to prepare this helicopter."

He expects to see an initial three machines deployed if and when the commitment is made.

And DGA Tiger programme manager Maj Sophie Le Berre, a passionate advocate of the machine, confirms that it is ready to go. "There are no specific changes [required for Afghanistan] but for two years we have been preparing. We have pushed industry and many small things have been tuned on the helicopter - for example to make the communications more compatible."


© Eurocopter


In fact the Tiger HAP has been flying with the French army's 4th Brigade for two years and developing tactics to capitalise on the type's capabilities.

Capt Bruno Cavailles, who has been involved throughout that programme, says: "The question is: does the Tiger require a new way to fight? We can now engage almost simultaneously an enemy contact and another coming from behind. We are talking about doing both with the same aircraft.

"The combat radius is almost twice what it was before. Endurance has considerably increased and so has the speed. So it is not just hit-and-run missions, but crews can complete different roles in one mission. And we are less vulnerable in some kind of engagements because of increased weapon range.

"In consequence the limit seems to be the man. The huge capabilities of the aircraft are probably going to increase the crews' tiredness. Therefore, the human factors have to be considered accurately in order to organise the deployment of this aircraft."

That is something high on the agenda of the dedicated Franco-German Tiger training school at Le Luc in southern France, known to the French as the Ecole Franco-Allemand (EFA), which is working at a frenetic tempo to turn out new pilots even before hitting full operational capacity by October this year. The centre opened in July 2003 and is building towards 350 staff by 2011. Currently it deploys five German and nine French Tigers and will eventually have 12 and eight respectively.

INCREASED ENDURANCE

Deputy commander Col Christian Fanchini says: "Fielding the Tiger is a major challenge for the armed forces of France and Germany and of the army aviation in particular.

"The main mission of EFA is to give the pilots the tactical and technical skills they will need for the missions to be carried out with this weapons system."

A small group of instructors has now completed 550h on the Tiger and all have 300h, or in some cases 450h. The school itself has clocked up more than 6,600h on the type and says it has fired more than 16,000 20mm shells and 2,395 rockets.

French pilots are ahead in weapons training because, explains Fanchini, the German machines will not have their weapons system until September this year. By the end of 2009, however, France is looking to have 16 combat-qualified crews.


© Eurocopter


Fanchini says that crews would be ready to be deployed to Afghanistan "four to six weeks after the political decision" with industry-support agreements, notably with Thales and Sagem for its mission-planning module, already being in place.

Col Eric Merck says the French army's comprehensive simulator operation is building up its Afghan database to provide crews with increased familiarity with the theatre before deployment, and instructors praise the devices' capability to replicate the notorious brown-out conditions that routinely accompany take-offs and landings in the country. Pilots of other helicopter types undergo two weeks of dedicated simulator training for Afghanistan before deployment.

Pilots and gunners typically train in separate dome-simulators, networked together as required, and sometimes with the gunner being simulated.

DEDICATED TRADE

Merck says a growing number of the French air force instructors are NCOs who now train in the role as a dedicated trade. Their own training requires six months on generic simulator instruction followed by seven months on the Tiger. Already 18 are serving at EFA with a target of 72 by 2012. The air force is delighted with the programme and Merck says it has effectively gained three months in the progress of its overall Tiger training programme as a result.

The German objective at year-end is to have operational training underway with the 36th Army Aviation Regiment. And Spain, effectively a customer of EFA, is looking to increase its instructor force and solidify its simulator programme.

A significant difference between the French and German training programmes is that whereas German pilots are trained from the outset as potential mission commanders, French pilots are not initially qualified in that way and move up to it later.

Fanchini says: "Since the beginning of French Army aviation the pilots were trained only for piloting. In Germany and the UK there is a different philosophy - they are trained as mission commander and can do both roles. We think it could be dangerous to have the same level in the cockpit because the pilot could do more than he is really able. What is important is that the crew commander to be trained to do both tasks so he can do that."

"We train all the pilots in the front seat and then as commanders in the back seat. Then the most experienced become patrol leaders. It ensures that each man of the crew is fully aware of the mindset of the other one."

Differences between the French and German aircraft additionally mean that the simulators require a two-hour changeover if swapped between the two configurations, something the managers try to avoid.


© Eurocopter


RAPID MOVEMENT

Meanwhile the HAD version of the Tiger, due to enter service with France and Spain in 2012, is moving rapidly ahead.The DGA's Le Berre says first flight with the uprated Rolls-Royce-Turbomeca MTR390E engine, now fitted on pre-production aircraft PS01, has passed ground tests and will fly "in the summer".

The key difference from the HAP is the version's missile equipage - Hellfire II for France and Spike ER for Spain. Le Berre says the first Hellfire launch on the HAD is due in September.

Other improvements are the laser designator required for the missiles, upgraded IFF interrogator, and enhanced composite ballistic protection for the crew. The result is a weight of 6.6t versus the 6.1t of the HAP, and the consequent 14% greater power of the engine.

France will mix its planned 40 HAPs and 40 HADs in service, and Berre says there is currently "no serious discussion" of retrofitting the HAD capability to the HAPs.



Thunder Supports Rafale
http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

WAFF syndrome explained:

= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.

= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm

Look at these and see the pattern in leopardus's flaming.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1253817722/last-1254129737/2+Rafales+crash+in+the+sea

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1196975468/Rafale+crash+in+Corr%E8ze

Cet enfoire n'a AUCUN respect, souvenez vous en a l'avenir.

Oui,oui,oui...très bien...et ainsi la France qui nous aimons a repris sa place dans les nacions et la Gaulle se appelle De Gaulle.

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN CARLA BRUNI.

Vive La France!!!

Thanks!

We love her too. LOL!


PS Brasilian girls are HOT, can we see more of them over here?

Thunder Supports Rafale
http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

WAFF syndrome explained:

= A pathological liar is someone who often embellishes his or her stories in a way that he or she believes will impress people.

= In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation.
http://www.bushywood.com/mythomania.htm

Look at these and see the pattern in leopardus's flaming.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1253817722/last-1254129737/2+Rafales+crash+in+the+sea

http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1196975468/Rafale+crash+in+Corr%E8ze

Cet enfoire n'a AUCUN respect, souvenez vous en a l'avenir.