Israel wants Berlin to finance two new warships

Published: 23 Oct 09 13:44 CET
Online:http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20091023-22775.html

Israel is hoping to order two modern German-made warships without paying for them, daily Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung reported on Friday.
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Sources within the German government told the paper that Israel wants the Berlin to finance the MEKO corvettes, a sum that would reportedly reach hundreds of millions of euros.

The paper reported that the government has not yet reacted to Israels request. But influential politicians from northern Germany, where the shipbuilding industry is suffering from the global economic downturn, are apparently supportive in the interest of keeping German shipyards in business.

The shipbuilding contract would go to Hamburg company Blohm + Voss, the paper said.

But the internal weapons system would come from the United States, with the end result being a missile defence system on water.

Israeli naval forces have already received help from the German government. Between 1999 and 2000, three submarines completed by Kiel shipyard Howaldtswerken Deutsche Werft were delivered.

Meanwhile the government is reportedly paying for two-thirds of two more submarines with fuel-cell power plants priced at 500 million. They are currently under construction in Kiel with plans to deliver them to Israel in 2012.

http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20091023-22775.html

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"Israel is hoping to order two modern German-made warships without paying for them, daily Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung reported on Friday. "


I will tell'em: "Go and FYselves MFs!!!" The infamous cheap Kikes... Are they exchanging the memory of the fallen with weapons???

-------------------------------------------------------
"Las Malvinas fueron, son y ser¨¢n Argentinas"

Isnt this the same shipyard Medvedev wants Merkel to sell Russia?

Wow, that is some serious war guilt. Building them corvettes for free is insane. And then they complain Greece didn't pay for the submarines.

Is the infamous Holocaust industry. Take some thousands of deaths and make them millions. Then demand reparations for life... Poor Palestinian fellas....

-------------------------------------------------------
"Las Malvinas fueron, son y ser¨¢n Argentinas"

no body gets it for free... probably the german government will give it a finance credit for the purchase. the money will go to the ship builders directly

---

Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

---

Wow, that is some serious war guilt. Building them corvettes for free is insane. And then they complain Greece didn't pay for the submarines.
________________________________________________________

Hehe

Wow, that is some serious war guilt. Building them corvettes for free is insane. And then they complain Greece didn't pay for the submarines.



Yea well greece recieves billions of euro's from the EU so i dont think they have a right to complain about anything

/\ /\
You Europeans do not know it, but Greeks also plan to hide behind the skirts of the European Union vis a vis Turkey. This is the proud centerpiece of their foreign policy, hiding behind the big EU players, while they support Turkey, as their leaders argue in political speeches and the media that "they are in the EU now, so Greek-Turkish problems are now Europeanized". (Of course this strategy will fail, since if a country does not pursue its interests, disinterested third countries will not pursue Greek national interest for them. But nevertheless this is loser method, that is modern Greeks thinking. And when this leads to disaster as it inevitably will, they will blame foreign powers for their troubles (once again) without taking self responsibility(once again)!)

Sig:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote: Daily Times(Pakistan): Congressman says bomb Mecca if US attacked WASHINGTON: ...Congressman Thomas G Tancredo, Republican from Colorado, was being interviewed by AM 540 WFLA radio host Pat Campbell, who asked him what the response of the United States should be were terrorist attacks on US cities to take place and were attributable to extremist Muslims. The Congressman replied, ... then we could take out their holy sites. Asked if that meant Mecca, Tancredo answered, Yes.

"Yea well greece recieves billions of euro's from the EU so i dont think they have a right to complain about anything"

And Israel gets billions in aid from the US. What's your point?

EU aid is mutually beneficial. I don't have time to get into detail but here's an example: EU funds helped build Athens' new airport, and German companies were in charge and received a large chunk of the money. As well as concessions to run it for "x" amount of years.

lol no other country would get away with this

Israel will Milk the German cow for every last Shekel they can get

I bet in the future, say the year 2350 AD, the Israelis will want the Germans to donate 2 SPACE Stations to them for what they did in 1940's

The holocaust is shamelessly abused by Zionists who could not care less for the victims.

..more they exploit German,more they hate them...and point will when German again cut short their mustaches and roll up their sleeves......Soon Isreal might demand German to pay Isreal defence expenses too...

PEACE

Some posters above are feeded from their hate for Israel but it is absolutely sure that
Israel is using the Jewish victims to gain everything they can.It is very immoral to use
ur fallen and tortured to get some ships.

Some posters above are feeded from their hate for Israel but it is absolutely sure that
Israel is using the Jewish victims to gain everything they can.It is very immoral to use
ur fallen and tortured to get some ships.
---
True!



When I was young I used to pray for a bike, then I realized that God doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.

A simple example,if a man had killed my father i wouldn`t run to his son to ask for
reperations,money or gifts.Its called honour its being called to be decent.

I`m not against Israel-German aproach but if a was Israeli i couldn`t tolerate this.

Israel wants Berlin to finance two new warships
==

Simply because the two countries are good buddies today.

Same goes for Israel America case.

Nothing to do with WW2.

"Nothing to do with WW2."


It has EVERYTHING to do with WW2. Ask a German.

"Isnt this the same shipyard Medvedev wants Merkel to sell Russia? "

If it was then UAE beat kremlin to the punch.

http://www.seatradeasia-online.com/News/4744.html

--------------------------------------------

Boy, go lecture the Vulkans on European politics will you?

80% of you don't even know where Europe is.

Thunder Supports Rafale

http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

"It is very immoral to use
ur fallen and tortured to get some ships."

i second that





colours of Kaziranga

this is such a shame



thank god we have a new superjew who wants to become leader of the central council of jews in germany:









Broder candidate for chairmanship of the Central Council of Jews

Henryk M. Broder wants to be president of the Central Council of Jews. This was announced by publicist in an article for the "Tagesspiegel". If elected, wants to use Broder, among other things, repeal the crime of Holocaust denial.

Berlin - Henryk M. Broder aims to succeed by Charlotte Knobloch. After careful consideration, he apply for the position as chairman of the Central Council of Jews, writes the journalist who frequent writer for SPIEGEL ONLINE, is in the "Tagesspiegel". The association was overwhelmed in "a deplorable state", the President appeared. Knobloch sent a message on Wednesday from her there to an opinion.

Broder goes sharply with Secretary Stephan Kramer into court. An attempt in vain to compensate for the declining importance of the organization with approximately 120,000 members, and by tactical alliances "sinnfrei activism.

As President Broder wants to work to ensure that Holocaust denial is repealed as a criminal offense. "The law was well intentioned, but has proved to be counterproductive by helping idiots to be staged as a martyr in the struggle for historical truth," wrote Broder. "Our problem is not the last of the Holocaust, whose facticity außerfrage stands, but the genocide taking place before our eyes in the Sudan."

Germany does not yet need more Holocaust memorials and monuments, but an active policy to promote human rights without regard to economic interests. In addition, he would seek good relations with Muslims in Germany, who writes a plea for a strict separation of church and state, Broder.

cte / AP / AFP


http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,656589,00.html&sl=de&tl=en&hl=de&ie=UTF-8

//"lol no other country would get away with this "//




With what? Countries, first and foremost, look after their own national interests. Thus, if the Germans are content to aid Israel in enhancing its national security, Israel would be foolish and unrealistic to refuse. Indeed, we don't have the privelage to decline help from our friends or allies simply in order to appear 'gracious'.

Germans should absolutely have to compensate the jews if they did what is claimed they did. Not only for the next 20 years but up until 2050. A little piece of german land should also be given to jews, one they can call israel.

Come to think about it America should also start compensating its african american population considering how greatly the two of us agree on the right of jews to be repatriated.

----------------------------------------
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a ****
When you won't just put up with the bull**** they pull
Cause they full of **** too

Israel may want a lot, question is if they get anything for free.
I doubt it, maybe they get a cheap credit and after all the money helps the German Shipbuilding Industry. Besides, Germany is just in talks over buying Israeli UAVs.

---------------------------------------------
A German Soldier doesnt die, he goes to hell and regroups !

//"Germans should absolutely have to compensate the jews if they did what is claimed they did."//




I disagree. The current generation has no obligation to do so. But if they chose to do so of their own free will, I personally would gladly accept. I think this is more a testement to modern germany's admirable ability to admit past crimes and own up to them, in a way no other country (probably in history) has done.. from teaching the darker parts of its history in every curriculum, to aiding its past victims.

I disagree. The current generation has no obligation to do so. But if they chose to do so of their own free will, I personally would gladly accept. I think this is more a testement to modern germany's admirable ability to admit past crimes and own up to them, in a way no other country (probably in history) has done.. from teaching the darker parts of its history in every curriculum, to aiding its past victims.

Well then you would agree that the palestinians should also not have any obligation to give the jews statehood of their land, or recognise that statehood.

----------------------------------------
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a ****
When you won't just put up with the bull**** they pull
Cause they full of **** too

//"Well then you would agree that the palestinians should also not have any obligation to give the jews statehood of their land, or recognise that statehood."//



Nor do the Israeli's have an obligation to do the same with the Palestinians. But if both sides are practical, they would accept a two state solution and mutual recognition.

This sounds like the law of the jungle to me, 'whoever can take the land has the right to the land'. Increasing settlement activity in the westbank and your governments complacency with this suggests the majority of israelis, who voted for netanyahu, don't care much for peace.

----------------------------------------
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a ****
When you won't just put up with the bull**** they pull
Cause they full of **** too

//"This sounds like the law of the jungle to me, 'whoever can take the land has the right to the land'."//




Hardly. Im simply saying that just as the Palestinians, instead of accepting a two state solution, are free to chose to continue their war for Israel's total anihalation (and face the consequences). Using the same standard, Israel is free to do pretty much the same. You can just as well go gun down your neighbor, its your choice, and you will serve a life sentence as a result.

Hardly. Im simply saying that just as the Palestinians, instead of accepting a two state solution, are free to chose to continue their war for Israel's total anihalation (and face the consequences). Using the same standard, Israel is free to do pretty much the same. You can just as well go gun down your neighbor, its your choice, and you will serve a life sentence as a result.

If you are saying that rocket attacks or hamas's refusal to recognise israel justifies jewish settlements then i will argue that the creation of an israeli state on palestinian land justifies resistance to that state and the refusal to recognise that state.

----------------------------------------
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a ****
When you won't just put up with the bull**** they pull
Cause they full of **** too

//"If you are saying that rocket attacks or hamas's refusal to recognise israel justifies jewish settlements.."//



I'm not justifying or unjustifying anything. People here know my position on the settlements. Im simply saying that Hamas's choice to continue the war and catagorically denounce any attempt at peace and reconciliation directly prevents any chance of it getting anything. These are the consequences of its actions. It's their choice, they should live by it.


Anyway, this is getting off topic. If you want to continue this discussion, then you should open up a new thread.

I'm not justifying or unjustifying anything. People here know my position on the settlements. Im simply saying that Hamas's choice to continue the war and catagorically denounce any attempt at peace and reconciliation directly prevents any chance of it getting anything. These are the consequences of its actions. It's their choice, they should live by it.

Actually hamas has caegorically agreed to recognise israel in return for a palestinian state based on pre 1967 borders. It is the israeli government which has yet to agree to a freeze of jewish settlement growth in the westbank.

----------------------------------------
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a ****
When you won't just put up with the bull**** they pull
Cause they full of **** too

//"Actually hamas has caegorically agreed to recognise israel in return for a palestinian state based on pre 1967 borders. "//



No, it didn't. It was falsely quoted by a foreign press close to a year ago, at which point Hamas denied ever saying such a thing.

No, it didn't. It was falsely quoted by a foreign press close to a year ago, at which point Hamas denied ever saying such a thing.

Hamas has stated its readiness for that peace deal many times, including this year to reuters, the new york times, al jazeera, jimmy carter (as confirmed by jimmy carter) and even russian foreign minister sergei lavrov.

----------------------------------------
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a ****
When you won't just put up with the bull**** they pull
Cause they full of **** too

//"Hamas has stated its readiness for that peace deal many times, including this year to reuters, the new york times, al jazeera, jimmy carter (as confirmed by jimmy carter) and even russian foreign minister sergei lavrov."//



You are misrepresenting what they said. Hamas claimed that if Israel evacuated all the WB and Gaza, it would consider a 10 year cease fire. But even that's a rosy definition of Hamas's intentions, since their terminology of a 'cease fire', was "hudna".

For those unfamiliar with the term: HUDNA - Arabic word often translated as "cease-fire.- Historically used as a tactic aimed at allowing the party declaring the hudna to regroup while tricking an enemy into lowering its guard. When the hudna expires, the party that declared it is stronger and the enemy weaker. The term comes from the story of the Muslim conquest of Mecca. Instead of a rapid victory, Muhammad made a ten-year treaty with the Kuraysh tribe. In 628 AD, after only two years of the ten-year treaty, Muhammad and his forces concluded that the Kuraysh were too weak to resist. The Muslims broke the treaty and took over all of Mecca without opposition.

Thus, in return for Israel giving Hamas half of what it wants, Hamas is generousely willing to 'give it 10 years, rearm, and continue hostilities from a position of greater strength in the future'. Sorry, but we are not idiots, nor are we suicidal.

Well, HUDNA was precisely what the Jewish independentist forces used back in 1948... while a cease-fire they were provided with weapons collected all over Europa...

-------------------------------------------------------
"Las Malvinas fueron, son y ser¨¢n Argentinas"

//"Well, HUDNA was precisely what the Jewish independentist forces used back in 1948... while a cease-fire they were provided with weapons collected all over Europa..."//



Actually not really. Israel offered peace in 1948. The response was a 6 pronged Arab attack on the nascent Jewish state. During the fighting, an internationally brokered cease-fire was established, at which time both sides attempted to re-arm.

For those unfamiliar with the term: HUDNA - Arabic word often translated as "cease-fire.- Historically used as a tactic aimed at allowing the party declaring the hudna to regroup while tricking an enemy into lowering its guard. When the hudna expires, the party that declared it is stronger and the enemy weaker. The term comes from the story of the Muslim conquest of Mecca. Instead of a rapid victory, Muhammad made a ten-year treaty with the Kuraysh tribe. In 628 AD, after only two years of the ten-year treaty, Muhammad and his forces concluded that the Kuraysh were too weak to resist. The Muslims broke the treaty and took over all of Mecca without opposition.


The muslims adopted arms and then formed an army in medinah after having being forced out of mecca, given that the al quraysh sought to destroy them.

Once the muslim returned to mecca for their first pilgrimage, the al quraysh intercepted them refusing peaceful entry, a hudna was signed agreeing that they would be able to perform pilgrimage the next year instead - The muslims didn't fight despite their capability to defend themselves, instead the first pilgrimage was performed on the outskirts of the city.

During next years pilgrimage to mecca following the previous years agrement, the hudna was broken after sporadic attacks and murders against muslim pilgrims by the al quraysh which was what resulted in mohammads decision to later take mecca, as there was no other way to gaurantee his peoples safety in the following years of pilgrimage given that the hudna was ineffective in this regards.

Hamas's stance on a 10 year hudna is limited to words, its willingness towards a permanent agreement regarding recognition of an israeli state, one that is going to be negotiated with the other palestinian parties is not exclusive to words, we can see this demonstrated from agreements signed between it and other parties in 2006 and an agreement for the need for negotiations between the palestinian parties in 2007 regarding the issues. The mecca agreement essentially means its stance regarding a hudna is negotiable.

What the israelis have failed to do is agree to a freeze in settlement activity for talks, this is certainly not a good gesture for possible steps to peace.

----------------------------------------
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a ****
When you won't just put up with the bull**** they pull
Cause they full of **** too

So long as they don't expect us to buy them ships


"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."

I once lived in France,
but left for Angleterre,
I dream up flying in planes,
and invent some sources too,
but when it comes to proving it,
it's Tampax down the drain!

//"Hamas's stance on a 10 year hudna is limited to words, its willingness towards a permanent agreement regarding recognition of an israeli state, one that is going to be negotiated with the other palestinian parties is not exclusive to words, we can see this demonstrated from agreements signed between it and other parties in 2006 and an agreement for the need for negotiations between the palestinian parties in 2007 regarding the issues. The mecca agreement essentially means its stance regarding a hudna is negotiable."//


The mecca agreement does not have any relation to their stance on peace with Israel. Rather, their demands as part of a unity deal with fatah is that Fatah not press them on the diplomatic front. In addition, when an organization, consistantly, for 20 years, vows never to negotiate a peace deal with Israel, and never to recognize it, one must be either utterly daft, or insanely naive to think this means they are open to reconciliation. Look at their charter, for christs sake.


//"What the israelis have failed to do is agree to a freeze in settlement activity for talks, this is certainly not a good gesture for possible steps to peace. "//



Without a doubt. This would have helped strengthen the more moderate parties within the Palestinian population, and the settlements themselves are hardly helping any final settlement, but their building or dismantling is irrelevant as long as the Palestinian party voted into office still denies any possibility of negotiation, reconciliation, or mutual self-determination.

i knew you guys could haggle, but jeeeeez.

yoad, will come to the honda dealership with me tomorrow?

//"i knew you guys could haggle, but jeeeeez. "//



There's a difference between haggling and providing hard facts. Hamas never agreed to recognise Israel. They agreed to a Palestinian state on '67 borders for a specific period of time (after which they would continue hostilitues).

A two-state solution requires recognition of two states, not acceptance of a single state.

Yoad, is right as usual. If the Germans still feel guilty for their crimes why shouldn't Israel milk it for all its worth. Countries need to think about themselves and not let pride and hardheadedness get in the way of rational thinking. That's why Israel will always be successful against her emotional irrational neighbors.

............................................
"Montreal Canadiens suck,
(the hockey team not the people)"

"Germans should absolutely have to compensate the jews if they did what is claimed they did. Not only for the next 20 years but up until 2050. A little piece of german land should also be given to jews, one they can call israel.

Come to think about it America should also start compensating its african american population considering how greatly the two of us agree on the right of jews to be repatriated. "

The fact of the matter is that Palestine never existed as an independent state (in modern times at any rate) and the Brits (the last owners of the area in question) gave it to the Arab and Jewish residents, backed by a majority in the UN.

You are going to have to deal with Israel where it is...unless you want to open a Pandora's box of former borders throughout history. Should we give Iran to the Macedonians? They did after all once claim ownership over the area known as Iran today.

---

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
George Bernard Shaw