So with 2 months left before 2009 ends, PAK-FA should be ready to fly anytime now huh?

Who believes we'll see a genuine PAK-FA, a true 5th gen fighter, pic this year?



When I was young I used to pray for a bike, then I realized that God doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.

mass production will start in first january week, i swear

If we see it at 2012 we`ll be lucky lol

But again that`s with the completely stealth aircrafts,u can`t see them easily...

Who believes we'll see a genuine PAK-FA, a true 5th gen fighter, pic this year?

Fat, flippin' chance.  It does not exist.  The closest thing to a "PAK-FA" we'll see anytime soon will a mod'd SU-27/33 with some cosmetic garbage and another static radar display set at some exposition.  Nothing more. 

 

I almost feel sorry for the Russkie purveyors of this ruse by Mig/SuK............they want to believe but the reality just isn't there. 

make sure you dont edit any of your posts my friends. It may be a few months late but you will see it sooner than later.

make sure you dont edit any of your posts my friends.

So we'll see a genuine pic of a true Russian 5th gen fighter before mid 2010?



When I was young I used to pray for a bike, then I realized that God doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.

Click - ""


==================================
Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.

"Nighthawk00)
So we'll see a genuine pic of a true Russian 5th gen fighter before mid 2010?"

Funny this "5th generation" fighter thing isn't such a problem to Boeing when commercialising their F/A-18.

Since it's simpler to juge by labels than informations and valide datas the WAFF flamers are keen in pointing out "superiority" over the rest.


Little consolation for those who are going to end up with an underperforming and overpriced F-35...

We're more likely to see the PAK-FA soon than a competitive JSF.



Thunder Supports Rafale

http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

The first three from somewhere in russia with love and the other two
from what the Indians were shown.

http://www.npo-saturn.ru/!new/photoshow.php?slang=1&id=29

For infos like this, you can browse abovetopsecret or keypublishingltd
but they are but pipes to russian sites such as paralay.ru.
Then if you want to brush up on your cyrillic, check this link where

http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php?p=31731#p31731

the guy's name : Pavel is under the russian for author and to the right
of it you can find PAK-FA in cyrillic which is quite necessary to look
for it on its native sites.
Goodday mate!

At the view of the last pic they are looking at much higher performances than that of F-22 (higher Critical Mach with what? 56* sweep angle?).

By flair; i'd say 1.7/M 2.3 military power/After Brurners easly if the inlets are multi-shock and without the F-22 strutctural restrictions.

Not sure about the turning performaces though, it would greatly depend on the wingload but "a-priory", it looks more suited for interception at high speeds/high-altitudes than close combat.

They would be relying a lot on TVC with this arrangement.

The other pictures in particular those of the wing-tunnel model are showing something a little more "conventional" in terms of aerodynamic features.

Thunder Supports Rafale

http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

I am not too optimistic about the chances of pak-fa rolling out this year.




colours of Kaziranga

2 full PAK-FA prototypes exist, with 1 more for engine tests. There are at least 2 more frames under construction and I wouldnt discount that it already took to the skies.

--------------------------------------------

I won't discount the Russians, im' just curious about the final result.

This is still in the heavy category, the follow-up to the actual Sukhoi serie...

Thunder Supports Rafale

http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

your line of thoughts, Thunder, someone said at some
point that there does not seem to be a single official
picture of it from either full frontal nor full belly points of view!!!

http://www.defenceaviation.com/2008/01/su-pakfa-a-russian-stealth-fighter.html

This contains one intriguing image.
And this link for the Chinese JXX in a PAK-FA thread :

://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149828&page=47

Good viewing!

"1RCHMDL84)
your line of thoughts, Thunder, someone said at some
point that there does not seem to be a single official
picture of it from either full frontal nor full belly points of view!!!"

True, i noticed this, it is really hard to estimate Maxis without at least a shot of the inlets, reason why i only used conditional for my rough estimates based on aerodynamic arrangements, they fell short, mainly due to my underestimation of its TWR.

See, i was way back with M 2.3 although i thaught it would do it easely, M 2.5 is remarkable if atained but i am also impressed by the climb rate of > 1.148 ft/s, nearly 10% higher than that of a Rafale.

I think this will prompt thaughts of engine upgrade in a few circles sooner or later, loosing on the vertical aspect of performances to a heavier fighter is never a good news to the lighter one.

The last photo is too blury to say but still looks like the follow-up of yet another Russian design.

Thanks for the link.


Thunder Supports Rafale

http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

I know about your pb with it but there, a few news :
Warning : french language only link!

http://www.air-defense.net/forum/index.php/topic,12287.0.html

http://escadron1.2cigognes.free.fr/index.php

Check out the infos on the rubric "Moyens".

As for TWR, i compute it the "official" way with 50% internal fuel and A2A configuration (Pylons and AAM only), for anything designed with this sort of requierements.

F-16, Mirage 2000 and even Rafales are not designed to fight with external tanks or more than 50% internal fuel for this matter as their maximum turn rates at combat weights were defined this way.

The other i.e. F-22 Sukhois, with their mosly internal fuel load are not in the same category and shoud see their combat weight computed according to the requiered specs which lead to their design (btw i already read this page as early as it have been completed, i keep myself aware).

One doesn't compare torchons and servietes.

PS. ya plein de trucs qui me font tousser quand je les lis dans ce forum.

Thunder Supports Rafale

http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

The picture by Jozef Gatial is the configuration that impressed me most.

Of course it is ressembling that of F-22 but it is pretty difficult not to come up with different solutions than these is one is using a conventional tailed design.

I am not certain of the purpose of the two pods on the wing tips although there are chances they belong to the ECMs suite.

What i notice as well is the use of the two external booms to sustain the elevators and rear-looking radars, a feature seen on previous Sus designs.

All in all it looks like an evolution of the previous generation of Sukhoi fighters with a fair amount of EN L.O built-in, if performances are those anounced in the link provided by 1RCHMDL84, it should be trigering some reactions in western MoDs.

I'm thinking europe and the USA as well with the decision to stop F-22 production...

Thunder Supports Rafale

http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

i know the russian gov is hurt for liquidity right now, but this a critical window for pak-fa. it must be seen through. russia's fighter tradition is at stake. if it flops out for any reason i think that mig/sukhoi will have a hard time ever recovering.

if they succeed, they can succeed on a massive level. if they really manage to bring off a budget f-22 with comparable capabilities, then f-35 is in deep sh1t on the export market. it would also represent the final nail in the eurocanards export coffin.

producing a game changing fighter is only half the battle however. russia is not the best bet for politico-economic stability over the next 20 years. the united states, almost no matter what, will be able to support f-35 clients and develop well organized and executed upgrade packages over its entire lifespan. that has always been the rub with russian hardware, no matter how superior it is.

it's already a little too late to compete in the 5th generation race. even if the Russians roll out a flying prototype tomorrow, we're not going to be seeing actual exports for another 5 years, and by that time, the f-35 would have already flooded the market. Russia should not expend resources to compete in this market generation and try to advance development of UCAVs, as that will be the future both in this generation and the next. Around 50% of new pilots in the USAF are training for unmanned roles, which goes to show how the paradigm is shifting.

Just browse the locations, please :
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=55.5932127&lon=38.1074953&z=15&l=0&m=s&v=9

Just notice the subtitle, please :


And
yet another source with numbers about it including the
usual 1rst flight as of 2009/11...

http://warfare.ru/?linkid=2280&catid=255

here a pic :

there a pic :


everywhere a pic :




I really like the last one for reasons Thunder and i discussed
earlier and somehow, a Pak-Frabbit of 32 to 37 tons will be
pulled out of an 1.44-shaped hat claiming to be the illegitimate
son of a... Sukhoï47 and an F-22!

Thus being grand-child to the Su-27 and the X-39!!!!! LMAO

make sure you dont edit any of your posts my friends...

Oh, no need to worry about that. 

 

And, considering there are all of these full scale, operating prototypes sitting around in hangars and all, I don't expect some wood/plastic mockup being rolled-out as "proof" of any material, operational airplane. 

We'll see but I'm not worried about anything. 

"ed21x)
and by that time, the f-35 would have already flooded the market".

Dream on, it will be the earliest 2013 before we see them entering service in any significant number IF potential customers can afford their unit price.

Please inform yourself.


"ed21x)
Russia should not expend resources to compete in this market"

They CANT do worth than Lockheed Martin.


"ed21x)
Around 50% of new pilots in the USAF are training for unmanned roles, which goes to show how the paradigm is shifting".

That's mainly because the USA are alo short of cash, they can't afford F-22 in sufiscient numbers and UAVs are way cheaper for the kind of war they are fighting now.


Thunder Supports Rafale

http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

That's mainly because the USA are alo short of cash, they can't afford F-22 in sufiscient numbers and UAVs are way cheaper for the kind of war they are fighting now.
---
The F-22 is certainly not the main reason, 192 or 280 F-22 won't change much to the number of pilots trained for UAVs or manned aircraft. The USAF has A LOT more than 280 manned aircraft.



When I was young I used to pray for a bike, then I realized that God doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.

"Nighthawk00)
The F-22 is certainly not the main reason, 192 or 280 F-22 won't change much to the number of pilots trained for UAVs or manned aircraft".

No but cahs shortage is the reason for the reduced number of F-22 which is what i meant.



Thunder Supports Rafale

http://rafale.freeforums.org
http://rafale.freeforums.org/rafale-vs-f-16-aerodynamics-compared-t69.html

ed21x,

i think if PAK-FA can put itself somewhere solidly on the horizon, then it really does have a chance in the "5th generation" market against f-35.

afterall, like f-16, f-35 will be sold over 20-30 years. even if PAK-FA arrives 5 years late to the party it can still steal massive sales from f-35. client airforces always have the option of purchasing up-level versions of legacy platforms that they may already be operating to fill the gap until PAK-FA arrives to avoid an f-35 purchase altogether. but it all depends on some PAK-FA prototype/demonstrator showing up NOW, and being agressivly developed and marketed NOW.

i agree with you about UCAVs, and in fact i am a detractor of f-35.

month left, that's all i could find :


http://englishrussia.com/?p=3268

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix0Izx-6Ycw



http://www.knaapo.ru/eng/index.wbp

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149828&page=55

I may have already posted the third ( image ); sorry if so.
on the fourth, you should click the fighter for a small
gallery with the Pak-Fa on the left near the commercial
airliner.

On the last one, you have the fourth at top of page but
do scroll to post/message #816!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read you all later.







Speak softly and carry a big stick.

http://airbase.ru/hangar/russia/soukhoi/su/27/ll/ksps.htm

Second from a video by Sukhoï for 2008 Chinese airshow?!?
Third one showing trial thrust vectoring nozzles on a Su-27.



Speak softly and carry a big stick.

Irkut either u post PAKFA pic or quit......can't wait anymore.....

PEACE

care to translate?

=================================================================
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship,
design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take
orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, and die gallantly. Specialization is for
insects."
-Robert Heinlein

Pardon my Cyrillic, but is that the Russian edition of  "Popular Mechanics"...?

 

So, more drawings, fantasy art....meh.  Besides that nose section in pics above is that of the MiG 1.42 not some new aircraft. 

 

for saying it Joe!




Speak softly and carry a big stick.

what do guys make of this?
j-xx or pak-fa?

=================================================================
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship,
design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take
orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, and die gallantly. Specialization is for
insects."
-Robert Heinlein

It could also be ... fake.



When I was young I used to pray for a bike, then I realized that God doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.

^^ then its a very good photoshop the land gears are closing up and you can see the heat waves,etc
but your right it probable

=================================================================
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship,
design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take
orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, and die gallantly. Specialization is for
insects."
-Robert Heinlein

what do guys make of this?
j-xx or pak-fa?

I make a cruddy Photoshop of a fictitious video game airplane that does not exist out of it.  Again, the Chinese have introduced more actual and interesting aircraft than the Russians have over the last decade. 

No PAK-FA this year.  It's beyond argument at this point. 

No PAK-FA next year.  Because it's nowhere near being a material product.

In 2011 we might see a plywood and plastic general planform rolled out at some defense show to keep stringing the suckers along.  Nothing the Russians can remotely call a "PAK_FA" will be in flyable prototype form before 2013. 

I am remembering my words. 

 

 

Oh, wait, there are several dozen operational prototypes being flown routinely yet the Russkies are keeping it extremely "hush-hush" and jerking the Indians and their own air force along for the ride while they play the game, right? 

 

Right........

Actually there is already 1 copy in TsAGI(aerodynamic institute), be prepared to eat your words very soon.

--------------------------------------------

Photoshop no doubt with no heat signature etc, its a fake.

Even im getting doubtful, its taken too long. As Joe says its probably another modified version of the SU-27 series. Its pretty disappointing i must say