RAFALE vs Typhoon/Eurofighter, F-16s, and more and even F-22 Raptor! Guess which gives the others a rough ride?

http://airforces.fr/2009/12/20/rafale-vs-typhooneurofighter/

Have a NICE read...

Thunder Supports Rafale
The rafale is extremely maneuverable and thus awesome in dogfight. For example, confronted with a Eurofighter, engaged in a within visual range combat with a neck to neck start, we know we need a few dozens of seconds to validate a 'gun kill'.
Captain Romain: Rafale pilot in Afghanistan
http://www.surlering.com/article/article.php/article/capitaine-romain-pilote-de-rafale

yes this is true ... but it also has to do with pilot training

for instance RAF and USAF pilots are lower standard than AdA pilots

on the contrary when Rafale had to face Greek F-16's the Rafales had their a$$es handed to them ...

fact.

IC XC NIKA

for instance if you see Rafale vs USAF F-16 = 6-2

kill ratio of 3:1

however it beats RAF Typhoon 7-1 etc

why?

because F-16 is better than Typhoon?

no of course not

because USAF pilots are much better than RAF pilots thats why

dont forget TACTICS is the big leveller in aerial combat

with TACTICS a pilot can beat an bogey 2:1 or even 3:1

this is the difference

Greek pilots (HAF) are training daily in difficult mock combat conditions against asymmetrical threats with Mirage - F-16 etc

they prepare for many different aerial engagement scenarios

RAF and USAF in general do not have this level of training, they rely on superiority of numbers to achieve aerial dominance - this is why a better trained adversary (AdA) will win every time, even with Mirage let alone Rafale

smoke that

IC XC NIKA

Nice facts, where are you getting those from btw?

the result of the engagement between naval Rafales and greek F-16 Block 52+ is no secret to those 'in the know'

reality is both superhornet crew and rafal pilots were totally awed by the performance of the HAF with the block 52+ F-16

they had not encountered anything else like this in their lives

the greek F-16s were locking onto the Rafales and superbugs before the respective crews even knew the F-16s were there?

how?

tactics

Greeks have mastered aerial superiority tactics against a numerically superior foe in conjucntion with AEW&C guidance over the last few years and are genuinely lethal in the air - no other airforce has this level of combat training for aerial defence - for precision attacks against mud-shacks/open sewers/burrows/mangers/farmyard animals , no contest I accept other air forces are better

IC XC NIKA

The most beautiful fighter ever.
Is naval version of Rafale capable of firing AS-30L and has it recently used in Afghanistan?
Does French Navy operates AS-30L at all? Does AdA operates AS-30L any longer?

LOL, another article recycled from the infamous UAE claims (which were subsequently denied by other parties). It doesn't matter how many times you post a recycled evidence of the same story written by those who have a vested interest in seeing Rafale at last gain an order its still the same story. Like i say though that story is just a RUMOUR and not one taken very seriously by those in the industry off what i've read. Of course the other big problem with the UAE rumours is before the exercise Rafale to UAE was seen as a done deal, after UAE went VERY cold. Wonder what really happened??!

Pete Collins has also been extensively debated elsewhere and using his claims while a great endorsement for the Rafale, in the manner they are is whats called Spin.

Any news on Brazil? In a way I'd actually like to have seen Rafale do well, though not at the expense of the superior Typhoon (thats just to wind people up!), as I fear for the future of European military aviation if it continues to do so badly on export. Typhoon has once again highlighted the problems with the collaborative route and the French appear to be the only ones who'd go it alone in Europe yet this has been very expensive and the failure to press ahead while Eurofighter were fighting amongst themselves appears to have cost them dearly. This along with massively shrinking budgets and end of cold war makes me worry for all future Europeans nations.

>> when Rafale had to face Greek F-16's the Rafales had their a$$es handed to them ...

fact>>




Absolutely....... And don't forget the 50 years old Phantom..LOL..


The Rafale wouldn't last 30 seconds against the F-22.

And don't forget the 50 years old Phantom..

----

Go on post the pic, just to piss him off!!!

Hey, Leopardus buddy don't forget Capt. Romain said Rafale could detect the Raptor or whatever he was on about last time... It doesn't matter that the Raptor is recognised as the best in the world by a country mile by just about everyone!!!

LOL, another article recycled from the infamous UAE claims




Colky7 dude.. Sources made in France can't be taken seriously..Same as Captaine Romaine..LOOOL..

Colky7 ..Not every frog is a fcuking troll like this idiot SAMPAIX.. Here is a reasonalble Frenchman from another defence forum.. Its simple and concise so no translation is needed..



Je pense pas que le développement du rafale soit plus avancé que celui du raptor en plus...
Je donnerais le f22 gagnant de très loin, il semble surclasser le rafale dans tous les domaines: radar, SER, puissance, manuvrabilité en subsonique et surtout en supersonique , armement...

for instance RAF and USAF pilots are lower standard than AdA pilots
---
Ada pilots fly less than their Anglo-Saxon counterparts. There was a thread on this a couple of years ago. French pilots fly 180 hours while their British and American comrades fly 200-200 hours per year. USN pilots fly something like 400 hours per year.



An unavoidable war is called justice.
When brutality is the only option left,
it is holy.
Machiavelli - The Prince 1513.


I'm not American, I'm from Flanders.

LOL, another article recycled from the infamous UAE claims (which were subsequently denied by other parties).
Wow, we have official denies now ?
Not the crappy stuff from Eurofighter marketing guy ?

It doesn't matter how many times you post a recycled evidence of the same story written by those who have a vested interest in seeing Rafale at last gain an order its still the same story. Like i say though that story is just a RUMOUR and not one taken very seriously by those in the industry off what i've read.
It's just rumors ?
Amazing to have such a consistent rumors from one side.

Of course the other big problem with the UAE rumours is before the exercise Rafale to UAE was seen as a done deal, after UAE went VERY cold. Wonder what really happened??!
The reason has been given on and on, asking again won't dismiss the reason.
Because of two articles.
http://www.lepoint.fr/chroniqueurs-du-point/jean-guisnel/aux-emirats-le-contrat-du-rafale-sur-une-pente-fatale-03-10-2010-1244479_53.php

But since few months, the discussion with UAE is hot again.
Perhaps the situation in Arab countries explain why

Pete Collins has also been extensively debated elsewhere and using his claims while a great endorsement for the Rafale, in the manner they are is whats called Spin.
As I wrote on another forum, it's totally amazing.
Any bad news (from unknown or anonimous source) about the Rafale is seen as TRUTH and cannot be discussed.
Any good news from the Rafale (from military or idustrial sources) is seen as "spin".
Something is wrong with you but I don't think I have time to handle your personnal issues.


Any news on Brazil?
It seems ms Roussef is really motivated to cut off military budget, so the FX-2 is really in a difficult situation.

Typhoon has once again highlighted the problems with the collaborative route and the French appear to be the only ones who'd go it alone in Europe yet this has been very expensive and the failure to press ahead while Eurofighter were fighting amongst themselves appears to have cost them dearly. This along with massively shrinking budgets and end of cold war makes me worry for all future Europeans nations.
Its funny to see a European Neuron and a pure british Taranis

*******
Ada pilots fly less than their Anglo-Saxon counterparts. There was a thread on this a couple of years ago. French pilots fly 180 hours while their British and American comrades fly 200-200 hours per year. USN pilots fly something like 400 hours per year.
IIRC, that was the situation with our last socialist governement, which ended in 2002, so I suppose figures are a bit better.

Jesse,

My only point here was that he's trying to pass off what is basically the same news recycled as something new when in fact its all the same story that has been debated many, many times. Truth of it? I'm not sure any of us will ever get to the bottom of it in the near future. Like I've said before i tend to take these sort of rumours with a very large pinch of salt - i do the same when they're pro Typhoon as well - there was one about Typhoon training in the states with Raptors and coming off better due to compromised stealth or something. It was even complete with the appearance of someone they portrayed to be a Lockheed concern troll on one forum!! I thought that was rubbish as well though. I will be fair though and say the Rafale rumours in question have more substance than the Typhoon story.

Its just I personally feel they're very unlikely to be true - at least in the manner presented above and if there is any truth to them then the story will be much more than meets the eye! But like i say i guess none of know for sure, i was just annoyed he's passing this off as something new and 'proof'.

----
As I wrote on another forum, it's totally amazing.
Any bad news (from unknown or anonimous source) about the Rafale is seen as TRUTH and cannot be discussed.
Any good news from the Rafale (from military or idustrial sources) is seen as "spin".
Something is wrong with you but I don't think I have time to handle your personnal issues.
----
I know there was a lot of fairly nasty things said about why Collins made the statements he did, which i've no idea of the validity of and would hope are untrue, so am happy to accept it. What i meant was while what was said was definitely a massive endorsement for Rafale and should be something all are happy about, i have seen certain individuals use it to justify more than is justified. He said along the lines of it was the best aircraft he'd flown (not got article to hand) etc and was clearly very impressed but he hasn't flown the Raptor or in service Typhoon at time of writing so while it shows in his opinion its better than the Harrier, Hawk and others doesn't justify what some claim it does.
I honestly think the good news being slammed/bad news being truth problem - which definitely exists is, certainly on forums caused by certain aggressive individuals we've both fallen foul of, who create a situation where this happens, not through at least in my case my actual balanced opinion but more through jumping to defend programmes i support. This in turn leads supporters of Rafale to defend it and so on and you get a polarisation which creates this situation. Sorry if this doesn't make sense.... I am trying!!


Its funny to see a European Neuron and a pure british Taranis
----
I actually think Neuron is the more likely of these to see production - though it REALLY pains me to say this I have a terrible feeling Taranis will end up being cancelled. The collaboration on Neuron appears to be moving at not too bad a pace thus far but you have to admit previous collaborations have suffered and taken too long to get to development. If this can be avoided great, but if not it may end being so far behind US rivals it struggles. I really hope this doesn't happen but unless the collaborative factor is overcome and the British Govt comes to its senses I still worry for Europe....

It looks like everyone is hinting that all the aircraft are pretty much the same except electronics and pilot training.
If the F-16 Block 52 or later has 21st century electronics then would it be equivalent to the new fighters that are just now coming into their prime (Rafale, Eurofighter,Jas39, SU27and all the Chinese jets)?
If it is equal to the rest wouldnt be smarter to invest in a proven system that is more than likely cheaper than all the jets in their prime. If it is inferior then the question for the worlds AF is what the best plane to upgrade to. From what I have seen on claims that is undecided on what the best is. None of them a proven system
Still I am surprised that no one has bought the French Jet. Their Jets have a pretty good rep.

@colky7 and other barking mad trolls.

The ONLY point your bunch manage to make AGAIN is that you're as uninformed, BIASED as ineducated, in short typical Jackoniko;s manure, and you're full of it.

Peter Collins DEBATED by WHOM? Mr Jackoniko? LOL!

YOU or HIM (I think you're either the same person or a copycat) are FAR from being qualified to debate about Peter Collins knowlege, experience and capabilties...

Your knowlege of aviation matters is far too low to even suggest anything remotly negative about Collins, Jackoniko actually NEVER managed to get his punny @ss on a flying Typhoon for example, while Craig Hoyle did and HE desagree totaly with J-L = End of story.

What P.C said about Rafale, for those who KNOWS about such things, speaks for itself.

HE tested the latest version of BAe's Typhoon flight simulator and validated the Program manager figures about Typhoon rolls rate (90*/sec INFERIOR to that of Rafale) but also highlighted the qualities EVERYONWE else who flew the aircraft has been reporting.

= HIGHEST level of ONSET of every fighther jet in service.

Rafale qualities are well known since the Korean FX competition, and as usual you only can DENY the truth, lol, how low are you boys?


Restructuring of Koreas Defense Aerospace Industry

page 56

Source: Authors file

The fighter was reported to have earned good reviews from
Korean pilots who had test flown the aircraft as a means to
evaluate whether it meets Air Force operational requirements.
Korean Air Force pilots regarded the Rafale as a highly
maneuverable piece of hardware, making it a pilots dream

Figure 7: Features of Rafale
http://www.bicc.de/uploads/pdf/publications/papers/paper28/paper28.pdf



HERE is what it is all about, considering your level of education no one expects you to comprehend what it means so don't even bother replying...

Basically YOU dont have any points to make and have NO proper material to validate other than amateur blogs about the DAG F-4s, or suggesting others dont know what they write about (your little tirade on Peter Collins is FUNNY at least) and false interpretations of what was NOT said but merely suggested by more uninformed French bashers like yourself.

As i was saying you're full of it, as for myself, i dont need to "try" anything, just post the official comments and a few other sources to validate, you on the other end are still trying to shoot the poster, using all dirty trick on your book like reverse psychology (must be pathologic) proving my points time and time again, you're a bunch of www stalkers in great need of your mumy's attention, not airfans.

Pathetic retards!


-------------------------------------------------
(Login TrippinA)
Eagle Squadron (US)
Re: RAFALE vs Typhoon/Eurofighter, F-16s, and more and even F-22 Raptor!No score for this post February 19 2011, 4:04 AM


"It looks like everyone is hinting that all the aircraft are pretty much the same except electronics and pilot training".

Eric made the accurate statement on training, but he forgot to add that not ONE AdlA Rafale Squadron trains as much in A2A as any of their US counterpart, the two squadrons equiped with Rafale are primarily Attack/A2G Squadrons...


"If the F-16 Block 52 or later has 21st century electronics then would it be equivalent to the new fighters that are just now coming into their prime (Rafale, Eurofighter,Jas39, SU27and all the Chinese jets)?"

NO it wouldn't, a F-16 doesn't have the flight envelop of a Rafale or Typhoon, it doesn't even compete in equal terms vs a Gripen, as for systems, there is no F-16 with the equivalent IT core architecture to that of F-22, F-35 Mirage 2000 Mk2 and Rafale (You did read well i didn't typo).



BTW find us a F-16, Typhoon or Gripen that did this...

Thunder Supports Rafale
The rafale is extremely maneuverable and thus awesome in dogfight. For example, confronted with a Eurofighter, engaged in a within visual range combat with a neck to neck start, we know we need a few dozens of seconds to validate a 'gun kill'.
Captain Romain: Rafale pilot in Afghanistan
http://www.surlering.com/article/article.php/article/capitaine-romain-pilote-de-rafale

Listen there is actually no comparison between block 52+ and Rafale

Rafale is mich more advanced aircraft, more powerful, better flight envelope, avionics, sensors, weapons systems, MMI etc

however and just to clarify the situation

the HAF vs Navale Rafale results were that the Rafale pilots managed to score marginally more locks against the HAF crews in 1 v 1, 2 v 2 and 4 v 4 scenarios

However these were all at very extended range whereas all the HAF kills were within the no escape zone - the Rafale BVR missile locks were all considered low probability of kill

conclusion?

Rafale is more advanced and better in every way than F-16

HOWEVER if you pit any aircraft against a highly trained adversary in a respectable aircraft with good avionics, performance and radar such as F-16 Block 52+ you will have a run for your money

by comparison the complete annihilation of Typhoon by Rafale does not represent any particular difference in flight envelope or performance - it simply shows the superiority of AdA pilots, doctrine and tactics as opposed to RAF

IC XC NIKA

Romulus the Greek
romulus007


"the HAF vs Navale Rafale results were that the Rafale pilots managed to score marginally more locks against the HAF crews in 1 v 1, 2 v 2 and 4 v 4 scenarios"

These Rafale M were flown by pilots coming from the F-8FN with literaly NO BVR culture previous to flying Rafale, little hours on them and these aircrafts were Rafale M F1 with the RBE2 PESA, a skeleton of SPECTRA, and NO Link-16.

In these conditions i wouldn't have expected the results to be this good in a BVR fight vs this type of F-16...

Today they give the bashing to the most advanced type of F-16 for all the reason we know about, they fly the F3.


"However these were all at very extended range whereas all the HAF kills were within the no escape zone - the Rafale BVR missile locks were all considered low probability of kill"

By the F-16 pilots who have no idea of the MICA kill probability, you could ask the Greek Mirage 2000 pilots what they think of it.


"by comparison the complete annihilation of Typhoon by Rafale does not represent any particular difference in flight envelope or performance - it simply shows the superiority of AdA pilots, doctrine and tactics as opposed to RAF"

WRONG. They did both BVR and WVR (In Corsica to tell the truth) as for the pilots as opposed to what was said, the RAF pilots were NO newbies, you dont send one to an Advanced Tactical LEADERship Course if the guys doesn't make section lead first, meaning 200 hours on them minimum.

As for maneuvrability, the capabilties of Rafale to out-turn everything bar the F-22 are also well known, its nose pointability and low-speed qualities are only equaled by the Raptor thanks to its TVC.

Rafale have the highest instantaneous turn rate of all, the Koreans noticed this clearly during their flight-tests btv...

What Granclaudon said about his RAF counterparts was just being nice with them but the Typhoon pilots are no newbies at all and more to the point they train MORE in A2A than the AdlA Rafale pilots.


WISHFUL THINKING.

The words Rafale EATER below the silouet of a Typhoon on a F-4 from a squadron about to transform on the Typhoon is funny...

Now we still wait for the article or comments about these "kills" because so far only suggestions about the meaning of this picture were made by amateurs in photographers blogs...

THIS on the other hand is MUCH clearer...

Thunder Supports Rafale
The rafale is extremely maneuverable and thus awesome in dogfight. For example, confronted with a Eurofighter, engaged in a within visual range combat with a neck to neck start, we know we need a few dozens of seconds to validate a 'gun kill'.
Captain Romain: Rafale pilot in Afghanistan
http://www.surlering.com/article/article.php/article/capitaine-romain-pilote-de-rafale

My only point here was that he's trying to pass off what is basically the same news recycled as something new when in fact its all the same story that has been debated many, many times.
My point is that for many forumers, in A2A, the Rafale was a sitting duck in comparison of the Typhoon, and now, for everyone, it should be obvious it's not that easy.

No way in hell that the Rafale would enjoy a 7-1 versus Typhoon in case of a war between two users of Rafale and Typhoon.

I know there was a lot of fairly nasty things said about why Collins made the statements he did, which i've no idea of the validity of and would hope are untrue, so am happy to accept it. What i meant was while what was said was definitely a massive endorsement for Rafale and should be something all are happy about, i have seen certain individuals use it to justify more than is justified. He said along the lines of it was the best aircraft he'd flown (not got article to hand) etc and was clearly very impressed but he hasn't flown the Raptor or in service Typhoon at time of writing so while it shows in his opinion its better than the Harrier, Hawk and others doesn't justify what some claim it does.
True that some Rafale fanboys might have use it on a wrong way.
I stay the same on my point, for many, the Rafale was a "weak" competitor even in front of many evidence, the article with a British pilot might have shaterred some idiotic certainties.

I actually think Neuron is the more likely of these to see production - though it REALLY pains me to say this I have a terrible feeling Taranis will end up being cancelled.
Let's say that I'm quite afraid of the future of UK on the military side .... something that could easily happen in France too.

The collaboration on Neuron appears to be moving at not too bad a pace thus far but you have to admit previous collaborations have suffered and taken too long to get to development. If this can be avoided great, but if not it may end being so far behind US rivals it struggles. I really hope this doesn't happen but unless the collaborative factor is overcome and the British Govt comes to its senses I still worry for Europe....
Dassault has said for the last 25 years that they left the Eurofighter program because of the bad industrial organization, they have the opportunity to do better but it's a two edges situation.
About Taranis, well, the CEO of Dassault said how happy he would accept to work with BAe ... as long as EADS is kept far away.

Colky7 dude..This is from Key Publishing..( The idiot Sampaix alias Dare2 got his trolling Asss kicked some time ago)


Comparision T/R modules


Thales RBE2 toy 840
APG 63v2- 1500
APG 77 - 1500
APG 81 - 1200
APG 79 - 1100
Captor aesa- 1000 - 2000
Gripen NG aesa -
elta 2052 - >1500
zhuk ae - 680

This means Thales is far behind the US competitors and also Eurofighters first AESA ,the CAESAR will be superior to RBE2. According to the UAE, Block 60's APG-80 delivered in 2003 !! has more range, and better interleaving than THALES RBE2 which comes 8 years after. SH's APG-79 must be 2 decades ahead .Northrop Grumman and Raytheon are the undisputed leaders in this field ,Thales is going through a painful learning process.

Now you see why its extremely difficult to sell the RAFALE with yesterdays techology.

Such a pointless and childish post from you Leopardus, you really make an effort to appear as a low level french basher on this forum.

Perhaps you missed the whole discusion on Keypublishing, and the fact that:
- the total number of MMIC don't give you a "ranking" of the quality of array.
- that picture is more than 2 years old.
- that picture has been photoshoped.

About the question of UAE, we don't know for sure, but anyway, the only thing from you which is close to the truth is that american competitors have a nive advantage about the numbers of fuctions that they can develloped.

Eric made the accurate statement on training, but he forgot to add that not ONE AdlA Rafale Squadron trains as much in A2A as any of their US counterpart, the two squadrons equiped with Rafale are primarily Attack/A2G Squadrons...
---
I don't understand what you're saying.
F-15C pilots surely train more in A2A than the average French pilot. Knowing the Rafale is a "omnirole" aircraft it makes sense that the pilots make use of, what imo is nothing more than a marketing term, this functionality and not concentrate on A2A. Maybe a couple of squadrons could do that but certainly not the whole fleet.



An unavoidable war is called justice.
When brutality is the only option left,
it is holy.
Machiavelli - The Prince 1513.


I'm not American, I'm from Flanders.

Colky7 dude..This is from Key Publishing..( The idiot Sampaix alias Dare2 got his trolling Asss kicked some time ago)
---

LOL! Hey Leopardus buddy, i think i can see into the future and a certain poster who lied about flying with Marcel Jurca is gonna post something along the lines of.... troll, you have no education etc etc, followed by a load of scanned documents!

Marc(el),

"The ONLY point your bunch manage to make AGAIN is that you're as uninformed, BIASED as ineducated, in short typical Jackoniko;s manure, and you're full of it."
----
Mmmm, perhaps i should again post the overview of you from PPrune. I hardly think you are in a position to call anyone else biased do you? You have a reputation throughout the internet as blinkered fanboy troll with no objectivity. We've already established I'm not especially knowledgeable on aerodynamics - it was me who admitted this, however most people seem to question your knowledge as well. You don't actually have any qualifications to enable you to talk with any authority and have been rejected at every turn when you've tried to work within the industry.

The troll said: "Peter Collins DEBATED by WHOM? Mr Jackoniko? LOL!
YOU or HIM (I think you're either the same person or a copycat) are FAR from being qualified to debate about Peter Collins knowlege, experience and capabilties...
Your knowlege of aviation matters is far too low to even suggest anything remotly negative about Collins, Jackoniko actually NEVER managed to get his punny @ss on a flying Typhoon for example, while Craig Hoyle did and HE desagree totaly with J-L = End of story."
-------
As I've already said, I wouldn't want to question Collin's qualifications and feel those nasty comments made about him were unfair. However despite some perceived flaws that some feel JL has exhibited, I've also heard there are plenty who are more knowledgeable than him, he is still though far more qualified to comment than you. He is a respected industry professional, what are you?

The troll barked: "What P.C said about Rafale, for those who KNOWS about such things, speaks for itself.
HE tested the latest version of BAe's Typhoon flight simulator and validated the Program manager figures about Typhoon rolls rate (90*/sec INFERIOR to that of Rafale) but also highlighted the qualities EVERYONWE else who flew the aircraft has been reporting.
= HIGHEST level of ONSET of every fighther jet in service."
----
Link please as everything i've seen said he'd never flown the Typhoon. So yes as i said above the article is great for Rafale and is something to be pleased about but only demonstrates it is superior to the Harrier, Tornado and Hawk - the aircraft he's flown. I have no problem with the collins article demonstrating rafale as a good aircraft but it is trolls like yourself who attempt to use it to validate claims it does not which i have issue with.

Troll: "Rafale qualities are well known since the Korean FX competition, and as usual you only can DENY the truth, lol, how low are you boys?
The fighter was reported to have earned good reviews from
Korean pilots who had test flown the aircraft as a means to
evaluate whether it meets Air Force operational requirements.
Korean Air Force pilots regarded the Rafale as a highly
maneuverable piece of hardware, making it a pilots dream"
-----
Again very good and does highlight Rafale as a good aircraft but cannot in anyway be used to show it is superior to Typhoon or the Raptor.

Troll: "HERE is what it is all about, considering your level of education no one expects you to comprehend what it means so don't even bother replying..."
-----
I think the above post demonstrates whom appears to have very little education - you. PS - you have yet to prove you have any education. So again the years old PPrune post still stands as a perfect description of you.

In regard to your other comments, you do not use proper source material, that is the point i was trying to make. You constantly use recycled and from the language used clearly biased articles all based around the same controversial story. Unfortunately you don't seem able to grasp this as you are too much of an obsessed fanboy or are just not smart enough to see. As the PPrune description said again "troll takes Dassault marketing spin and claims it is gospel, whilst at the same time writing off Eurofighter marketing spin as biased lies." You are a hypocrite and cannot see the massive contradictions in what you say and this is why its hard to take any debate with you seriously.

Jesse,

My point is that for many forumers, in A2A, the Rafale was a sitting duck in comparison of the Typhoon, and now, for everyone, it should be obvious it's not that easy.
----
I'd never have thought it would be easy. They are at the end of the aircraft designed by similar sized nations, with similar levels of tech and to similar budgets, with not totally dissimilar goals and am sure under these conditions it would never be a case of clear superiority for one aircraft. Personally i tend to subscribe to the Typhoon better for A2A and Rafale for A2G and multirole but am sure it is actually quite close and am sure many times Rafale could score victories. Vs the Raptor things maybe very different and the sitting duck thing may come in but it would for the Typhoon too I'm sure.

I stay the same on my point, for many, the Rafale was a "weak" competitor even in front of many evidence, the article with a British pilot might have shaterred some idiotic certainties.
-----
I hope so.

Let's say that I'm quite afraid of the future of UK on the military side .... something that could easily happen in France too.
----
Unfortunately it doesn't look good for us at the moment. Like you say i guess it could happen to France too but they have a history of independent design and the determination to press ahead alone on their side which is a big bonus. If Taranis goes the way of the TSR2 that may well be it for the UK as anything other than jnr partners in JSF style projects....

Dassault has said for the last 25 years that they left the Eurofighter program because of the bad industrial organization, they have the opportunity to do better but it's a two edges situation.
About Taranis, well, the CEO of Dassault said how happy he would accept to work with BAe ... as long as EADS is kept far away.
-----
I don't blame them on EADS!! I also think with hindsight Dassault were right about the industrial organisation. Funny enough wasn't there some mention of a joint UAV/UCAV in the defence agreement recently signed?

[QUOTE]Its funny to see a European Neuron and a pure british Taranis
----
I actually think Neuron is the more likely of these to see production - though it REALLY pains me to say this I have a terrible feeling Taranis will end up being cancelled. The collaboration on Neuron appears to be moving at not too bad a pace thus far but you have to admit previous collaborations have suffered and taken too long to get to development. If this can be avoided great, but if not it may end being so far behind US rivals it struggles. I really hope this doesn't happen but unless the collaborative factor is overcome and the British Govt comes to its senses I still worry for Europe....[/QUOTE]

Hey, colky!
Since the rest of this thread is old news, let me just say that, while the last SDR shocked me,
the UCAV situation in the U.K. is quite strong as you know.
Considering that Taranis and nEUROn have very different objectives, marrying the two makes
a whole lotta sense. I'll go with jesse on that one.
And it is true that Dassault stated intent on the nEUROn was to gather the best industrial
organisation/collaboration for dominance in future development of such projects!
That came from CATIA and the virtual design environment built for the commercial sector
of Dassault actually!
Still, I do not see Britain letting go of its forerunner position as pertains to UCAV use and
research in Europe... although I still have that NimrodRA4 fishbone up my throat!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12294766

Let's keep our fingers crossed on that one!

Good day all, Tay.


Source : bubblesgift.centerblog.net sur centerblog.


Speak softly and carry a big stick.

thunder is a black african

its not his fault

I'd never have thought it would be easy.
For many, it was that easy

Vs the Raptor things maybe very different and the sitting duck thing may come in but it would for the Typhoon too I'm sure.
If it wasn't clear, for me, the F-22 is in a league of his own.
On french forums, many used to believe that with spectra and others passives sensors the Rafale wouldn't be an easy target, unfortunately, the only test might prove that an effort must to be done.

Unfortunately it doesn't look good for us at the moment. Like you say i guess it could happen to France too but they have a history of independent design and the determination to press ahead alone on their side which is a big bonus.
Be careful with that argument, because until now, all our president/politics made a war in the name of France, WWII or Algeria mostly.
But now, our politics are nothing more "managers" and that costly idea of "military technological independance" must appear like an oldfahsioned idea from 60's.

If Taranis goes the way of the TSR2
TSR2, my god, what a beauty.

I don't blame them on EADS!! I also think with hindsight Dassault were right about the industrial organisation. Funny enough wasn't there some mention of a joint UAV/UCAV in the defence agreement recently signed?
The official cooperation on drone would be on long range and not on Neuron/Taranis.
BUT there is an interesting cooperation on the Neuron which is a deomonstrator and not a prototype.
I suppose that BAe can be quickly integrated into a future program for armed drone with Dassault\Saab\Bae.

Del

"As I've already said,"

BLAH-DI-BLAH you talk shrite!!!

P.C validated BAe Typhoon's simulator, if he doesnt know its fight envelop who does?

As for you trying to make up you can argue technically... Get a grip you're a troll and know too little about aviation to debate appart for writing essais on people who are tons more aware than you.

STFU, get HELP.


"I've also heard there are plenty who are more knowledgeable than him, he is still though far more qualified to comment than you".

WHO? Jon Lake? LOL!

You have NO clue, he knows so little about aerodynamics one can wonder how he gots his licence, i know glider pilots with more knowlege than he does as for PC the pilots in the UK wit ha better CV are not so "plenty2 as you pretend but obviously, better keep the bad noises up its your best weapon after all.


"He is a respected industry professional, what are you?"

J-L got NO respect from his collegeus NO, he was traped into telling "exclusive" stories about Rafale vs F-22 on KeyPub forum after some of them gave him a false information, he is a known LIAR and doesnt hesitate to bash up even the most notorious and respected of his compatriots to make his false points, this little joke just a little pay back from those who knows what Peter Collins is and what Jon Lake is...

You have NO case you're just adding to your own agro, bye bye.



Thunder Supports Rafale
The rafale is extremely maneuverable and thus awesome in dogfight. For example, confronted with a Eurofighter, engaged in a within visual range combat with a neck to neck start, we know we need a few dozens of seconds to validate a 'gun kill'.
Captain Romain: Rafale pilot in Afghanistan
http://www.surlering.com/article/article.php/article/capitaine-romain-pilote-de-rafale

del

LOL! Hey Leopardus buddy, i think i can see into the future and a certain poster who lied about flying with Marcel Jurca is gonna post something along the lines of.... troll, you have no education etc etc, followed by a load of scanned documents,,






Colky7. This clueless idiot SAMPAIX is a proven,despicable liar and convicted troll its apparent that all his arguments are based on mistruths,bogus analysis and scanned and copied documents as you said ..BTW congrats to the British. BAE SYSTEMS is the largest defence company in the world ahead of Boeing, Northrop Grumman,Raytheon and Lockheed Martin . A huge success for a British company.

You have NO clue, he knows so little about aerodynamics one can wonder how he gots his licence, i know glider pilots with more knowlege than he does as for PC the pilots in the UK wit ha better CV are not so "plenty2 as you pretend but obviously, better keep the bad noises up its your best weapon after all.






You can't be a hair in John Lake's Asss.. You stupid lying bastard.. Flying with Marcel Jurca ??
Maybe he was Capt.Romaine LOL...Aerodynamics and you ,hahahahhahha.....You pretending mess hall servant, you don't know your ASSSS from your elbow.

Hi Tay, good to hear from you...

"although I still have that NimrodRA4 fishbone up my throat!!!"
-----
The front page of the Sunday Times today has an article on it saying the Royal Navy are planning to go for a new £1bn surveillance aircraft as they're so furious over the Nimrod MR4 debacle and are desperate to make sure we have adequate maritime surveillance. I played football this morning so I've not had chance to sit down and read it properly yet but off what my friend told me there is no indication what platforms they're looking at. It makes sick the complete incompetence the MOD seems to be showing in defence procurement!!

I'll post the article of no one else has when i have chance later on.

Fingers crossed on Taranis, I can only hope they do go ahead. Like you say it would be crazy to give up all the hard work we've put in, I tend to be a little cynical on this regard as a bit of defence mechanism in case we do our usual of throwing away all the good work!! Perhaps with Dassault's hardwork on getting the industrial side right and a way to avoid the political infighting of past collaborations the expertise of Dassault, BAE and others can be put towards producing something. I love the Lynx family of helicopters and have always thought this is an example of how collaborative projects can be successful.

Jesse,

"TSR2, my god, what a beauty."
----
For sentimental reasons this has always been possibly my favourite aircraft and the story still saddens me - Damn you Mountbatten and all the others!! I've got a model of it taking pride of place on my desk at home and its my pride and joy!

Leopardus,

"Colky7. This clueless idiot SAMPAIX is a proven,despicable liar and convicted troll its apparent that all his arguments are based on mistruths,bogus analysis and scanned and copied documents as you said ..BTW congrats to the British. BAE SYSTEMS is the largest defence company in the world ahead of Boeing, Northrop Grumman,Raytheon and Lockheed Martin . A huge success for a British company."
-----

Cheers my friend, BAE's strategy of aggressive acquisition and working with other contractors certainly seems to be paying off. There's been a lot of bad publicity recently around BAE and defence procurement here in the UK, and while it is a double edged sword in that having only one contractor able to compete for big/high security projects is obviously dangerous and the companies record around 'bribery/corruption' is not something i'm proud of i do feel they deserve a lot more recognition at least in the public than they are getting currently. Coming from such a small nation I think they've done really well and think some of the problems on cost over runs etc are actually caused by the way they're forced to operate and MOD mismanagement.

PS - you're post above on the troll should be put int he dictionary under a picture of Sampaix!!!

I CHALLENGE you two retards AGAIN to prove ME a liar, J-L on the other hand there is plenty of material in Pprune, K-P and other for me to dig easely.

Do just that or shut the bark off, because all you do is your usual psychopathic and pathetic little www stalkers jobs.

We're waiting but as usual we already know that all you got is your sick little disturbed mind and a big mouth, GET HELP.

leopardus) = Barking mad psychopatic www stalkwer...
WAFFer

"You can't be a hair in John Lake's Asss.."

I DEMOLISHED HIM SEVERAL TIME OVER. ALL FRENCH POSTERS KNOWS THIS.

"Flying with Marcel Jurca ??"

Yep and not his family you retarded moron, you can try all you can some have a life, appart for your gutter and gay bars you know what?


"Aerodynamics and you ,hahahahhahha.....You pretending mess hall servant, you don't know your ASSSS from your elbow".

That's what you end up writing when YOU look in the mirror isn't it ignorant retard?

Not everyone is coming from the @sshole of the world, matty...


AND this is not the ONLY thing i do rather well, just to p!ss off talentless idiots like you two.

Up YOURS.
http://www.youtube.com/user/nukleusalive
Thunder Supports Rafale
The rafale is extremely maneuverable and thus awesome in dogfight. For example, confronted with a Eurofighter, engaged in a within visual range combat with a neck to neck start, we know we need a few dozens of seconds to validate a 'gun kill'.
Captain Romain: Rafale pilot in Afghanistan
http://www.surlering.com/article/article.php/article/capitaine-romain-pilote-de-rafale

Del

Troll,

We don't need to go as far as other forums to prove you a liar when we have Jurca-gate!!! I've offered several times to post the letter proving you lied over flying with him along with other sensitive information concerning to yourself, however you had a ban imposed upon me posting your personal information as you knew it would expose you. We don't really need this though as anyone can see from your reactions at the time that it was true.

Sick little mind i think is your territory as well. Been laid yet?!!! Empath network getting asked to stop stalking by a scared woman you'd never met anyone??

As for JL, as i've said many other posters have very eloquently explained occasions where he has got into trouble however he could never even come close to matching your reputation for being trounced on a regular basis. As Leopardus said you really can't put yourself in the same league. As i've said if you can 'demolish' him how come he is employed within the industry whereas you remain unemployed and utterly unqualified to comment? And are by popular consensus seen as one of the biggest threats to Rafale being taken seriously amongst the online community?

I could turn up numerous threads where you've been made a fool of but you would be too blinkered to see it, so perhaps it would be easier if you were to show us a thread where you demolished him. Leopardus and I have already posted several exerts where you've been humiliated in other threads and been greeted with nothing other than 'troll' and a few scans which have nothing to do with the argument.

Blah-di-blah-di-blah etc...

Aren't you TIRED of yourself being that stupid?

You can spit as much venom as you have in your guts i couldn't care less!!!

I'm Thunder; meaning you're as close to equal me as the asteroid belt if to heath.

You two are low lifes with NOTHING to bring to this forum, just as sticky as a pubic hair crabs, but not even as smart, so get lost.

Jealousy is a bitch ain't she???

Just in case you dudes didn't get it by now...

You make me LAUGH.



Thunder Supports Rafale
The rafale is extremely maneuverable and thus awesome in dogfight. For example, confronted with a Eurofighter, engaged in a within visual range combat with a neck to neck start, we know we need a few dozens of seconds to validate a 'gun kill'.
Captain Romain: Rafale pilot in Afghanistan
http://www.surlering.com/article/article.php/article/capitaine-romain-pilote-de-rafale

Virgin Troll said: "I'm Thunder; meaning you're as close to equal me as the asteroid belt if to heath."
----
We all know you're inferior to me but i think you might be a little closer than that!

I notice how you cowered away from all my questions as per usual. This is why you will forever be a joke!!

Now go and play guitar, drive bikes on tack days, fly aircrafts and debate about aerodynamics at begginer's level for a start...

LOL Me inferior to YOU? Bloody HILARIOUS.

Oh i forgot, go change your nappies too you just p1ssed yourself.

Thunder Supports Rafale
The rafale is extremely maneuverable and thus awesome in dogfight. For example, confronted with a Eurofighter, engaged in a within visual range combat with a neck to neck start, we know we need a few dozens of seconds to validate a 'gun kill'.
Captain Romain: Rafale pilot in Afghanistan
http://www.surlering.com/article/article.php/article/capitaine-romain-pilote-de-rafale

I DEMOLISHED HIM SEVERAL TIME OVER. ALL FRENCH POSTERS KNOWS THIS.







LOL..FRENCH POSTERS MY ASSSS ...I FOLLOWED YOUR STUPID CHILDISH DEBATE WITH HIM IN EUROFIGHTER FORUM FEW YEARS BACK .ALL OTHER POSTERS KNOW THIS...HE MADE YOU LOOK RIDICULOUS YOU SOUNDED LIKE A FIRST GRADER..

WHAT WAS YOUR SCREEN NAME TROLL ? FONCK OR WHATEVER. YOU ARE AN UNBALANCED DESPICABLE HUMAN BEING..YOU FCUKING LIAR..FLYING WITH MARCEL JURCA.??? GOOD JOB COLKY7

LOL..FRENCH POSTERS MY ASSSS ...I FOLLOWED YOUR STUPID CHILDISH DEBATE WITH HIM IN EUROFIGHTER FORUM FEW YEARS BACK .ALL OTHER POSTERS KNOW THIS...HE MADE YOU LOOK RIDICULOUS YOU SOUNDED LIKE A FIRST GRADER..
Who John Lake ?
Of course he made him ridiculous, on his way to behave with others, sure.
On the technical aspects, that poor JL/JAcko didn't have anything to back up any of that infamous "Typhoon superiority".

>> Coming from such a small nation I think they've done really well >>





Colky7 pal .I must disagree with you on this one.. The UK has the biggest aerospace and defence industry in Europe, which is second only to the US in the world. Challenger 2 is arguably the best MBT in the world, Type 45 with SAMPSON tracking radar, HMS Astute, QE class carriers and I am sure whatever replaces the Vanguard class in 20 years as Trident2 platform will be a world beater.
And most important of all, the F-22 RAPTOR has some avionics in the cockpit made in UK !!!!!
doing really well is an understatement ,I would say they have done sterling job..



Regarding this Sampaix idiot the troll has been exposed as a liar. He suffers from a degree of ineducability which is greater than that of the dullards and you may properly regard it as a mental defect in the educational sense. Remember,this idiot is 55+ or something..

Who John Lake ?
Of course he made him ridiculous, on his way to behave with others, sure.
On the technical aspects, that poor JL/JAcko didn't have anything to back up any of that infamous "Typhoon superiority".







Jesse old boy.We are talking about all others opoinion and not French posters..
The idiot Sampaix didn't have anything to prove otherwise on the contrary, he was once again exposed as the nasty troll Thunder..








Jon Lake's final comments on troll Fonck, explains everything...




>> go on, have a duel>>


He can't do it. He's proved his complete inability to engage in anything approaching civilised debate, as anything he disagrees with provokes a torrent of insult and abuse. I might poke fun at his limited qualifications, his reliance on Ealing public library, and his inability to discern fact when its presented to him on a plate, but I still haven't resorted to the kind of personal abuse that is his stock in trade, and I'm pretty angry to be placed in the same category as him.

My points have been made, and I'm confident that forum members with open minds can go back over previous posts and see which of us is right. I'm not even going to highlight the disparity in qualifications and access to experts.

If anyone has genuine questions, I'm happy to answer them, but life's too short to debate with someone who keeps calling you a schoolboy, an amatuer, to go back to school, etc. and it's pointless to try to argue with someone who is so convinced of French superiority that their mind is made up.

If you want someone to go troll-shooting, do it yourself.

Regarding this Sampaix idiot the troll has been exposed as a liar. He suffers from a degree of ineducability which is greater than that of the dullards and you may properly regard it as a mental defect in the educational sense. Remember,this idiot is 55+ or something..

-----

Hey Leopardus buddy, got i love the way the troll goes on about how he can play the guitar and his god awful band as a testament to his superiority. After he mentioned the name i looked them up on myspace and they're so bad no one has ever booked them. Guess he thought being an ageing rock star might help him get laid for the first time!!!

The glider pilot one is an even bigger mistake. I happen to live a few miles from a place called Shalbourne Soaring Club and am good friends with a few of the pilots, following a conversation over a few beers last night one of whom today confirmed to me no one by his name has ever held a pilots license (as he has claimed to do) here in the UK!! If i i give him the name of the club he claims to fly with he should be able to confirm if he even takes lessons or not and if its untrue he's prepared to write an open letter for me to post to confirm this!! Apparently glider pilots do not require a CAA license but all gliders pilots/instructors are trained by the BGA. Again his name does not appear on any records. If i find the club he will be able to check records to see if he has flown or is a member.

So Troll if you are reading this please tell us where you fly so we can find out if this just another one of your pathetic fantasies or not!!!

You're a talentless, ineducated, unaware little copicat and persistent at being stupid on top of everything.

What more can one say?

I don't give a toss what you write i DON'T READ your post either you got the drift?

STFU.



Thunder Supports Rafale
The rafale is extremely maneuverable and thus awesome in dogfight. For example, confronted with a Eurofighter, engaged in a within visual range combat with a neck to neck start, we know we need a few dozens of seconds to validate a 'gun kill'.
Captain Romain: Rafale pilot in Afghanistan
http://www.surlering.com/article/article.php/article/capitaine-romain-pilote-de-rafale

"Nighthawk00)
Eagle Squadron (US)
I don't understand what you're saying".

It's pretty clear though...


"Nighthawk00)
F-15C pilots surely train more in A2A than the average French pilot".

F-15 C doesn't do A2G usually the F-15 which does is the E or Strike Eagle.


"Nighthawk00
Knowing the Rafale is a "omnirole" aircraft it makes sense that the pilots make use of, what imo is nothing more than a marketing term, this functionality and not concentrate on A2A".

Appart for one little detail: The Squadron roles and the AdlA Organisation.

The 1/7 WAS one of the AdlA SEAD specialist Squadron and flew Jaguars it is also tasked with the transformation of new pilots mainly in the A2G role.

Some pilots are coming from the Mirage 2000 C community but they are the minority and none of them have an experience comparible to that of the pilots of the 1/2 who flies the 5-F since 1999, appart for those no one else was qualified to fire a MICA before they did this qualification on Rafale for example...

These two Squadron also have the little job of integrating new weapons, defining new tactics, in short writing the book in both conventional and nuclear A2G roles.

The A2A bit have already been done mostly by the Marine Nationale whos pilots ALSO in their majority had to learn the BVR culture from zero, coming from F-8 FN and SEMs, none of them had any experience of MICA.

There was a couple of exchange pilots from AdlA for helping with this issues but i dont think they came from the 1/2 because to train a pilot on the 5-F requiers a lot of time, they mostly came from Mirage 2000C Squadrons.

Example:
Capitaine Cédric RUET "Rut".
Pilote de chasse de l'Escadron 1/7 "Provence".

36ans
Chef de patrouille depuis 2001

18 missions de guerre sur Rafale B/C

4100 heures de vol dont 900 sur Rafale

1994 : Entrée dans l'Armée de l'Air.

1997-2001 : Affectaton à l'escadron de chasse 1/4 "Dauphiné" sur Mirage 2000 N.

2001-2002 : Instructeur au 2ème escadron d'instruction en vol (EIV) de l'école de chasse (EAC) à Tours sur Alphajet.

2003-2004 : Pilote présentateur Alphajet au 6ème escadron de contrôle et de standardisation (ECS).

2005 : Pilote de chasse à l'escadron de chasse 1/4 "Dauphiné" sur Mirage 2000 N.

Depuis 2006 : Pilote de chasse à l'escadron de chasse 1/7 "Provence" sur Rafale.

As you can see even the most qualified AdlA Rafale pilots is a "Green"...



"Nighthawk00
Maybe a couple of squadrons could do that but certainly not the whole fleet".

The 1/2 does this, they might drop the old dumb bomb from time to time but they are a pure Air Defense Squadron like that flying F-15 C in the USAF, Dijon is where is served btw at the time they were flying Mirage IIIEs and didnt do much A2G either.
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/air/activites/unites-aeriennes/escadrons-de-chasse/escadron-de-chasse-01.002-cigognes

MOST AdlA squadrons flies Mirage F-1 or Mirage 2000 today, as for these two Rafale Squadrons they are both based at base aérienne 113 «Commandant Saint Exupéry», Saint-Dizier which is traditionaly an A2G Squadron base, it was also the base of the 5/7 which is a training Squadron flying Alfajets, they moved to Dijon recently.
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/air/breves-migration/des-alphajet-en-formation/(language)/fre-FR

Far from an Air Defense bases make up then.

Put simply the Squadron equiped with AdlA are Attack/A2G and Nuclear assault.
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/air/activites/unites-aeriennes/escadrons-de-chasse/escadron-de-chasse-01.007-provence
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/air/activites/unites-aeriennes/escadrons-de-chasse/escadron-de-chasse-01.091-gascogne


As for the word OMNIROLE it is more than a marketing term, it is a capability and most aircraft in service today including in the USA doesn't have it just yet, Cedric Ruet says this very clearly here...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/air/actus-air/le-rafale-l-attraction-du-salon-aeroindia/(language)/fre-FR


The French Defense Minister commandited a study on the subject of the adaptation of the aircrews to new capabilties brought by Rafale.

While everyone agreed they were a great leap forward, no one actually managed to be profiscient in BOTH roles, the aircraft is a lot more capable than any pilot can handle even so all its functionalities are easy to learn and use.

The reason is simple, some pilots are better in A2A (Blue culture) and other in A2G (Green Culture), this also mean that they are chosen for their capabilties to perform in a role or another unles they are needed to pass this culture (mainly Blue to Green) like Cptn Ruet and a few other who are at the 1/7 coming from Mirage 2000N/D or C.

More to it, been good at one role requiers the best part of the 180h/year they can fly so the old system is still very valid today, it is a ratio close to what was employed in the AdlA, 90/10 was the ratio before Rafale...

Compare this to what the RAF Typhoon pilots or USAF F-22 does and you have an idea, the British must do 90% of A2A and the Raptor pilots does 100% of MORE than 180h/year.

Thunder Supports Rafale
The rafale is extremely maneuverable and thus awesome in dogfight. For example, confronted with a Eurofighter, engaged in a within visual range combat with a neck to neck start, we know we need a few dozens of seconds to validate a 'gun kill'.
Captain Romain: Rafale pilot in Afghanistan
http://www.surlering.com/article/article.php/article/capitaine-romain-pilote-de-rafale

You're a talentless, ineducated, unaware little copicat and persistent at being stupid on top of everything.

What more can one say?

I don't give a toss what you write i DON'T READ your post either you got the drift?

STFU.
----

I'll take that as evidence that your claims to have held a pilots license are lies as like i said no one with your name has ever held a CAA license in the UK. Failing to respond also proves that its very unliekly you have ever flown gliders as well.

It seems your only talent is lying and being a sick little fantasist. Poor you.

You're a talentless, ineducated, unaware little copicat and persistent at being stupid on top of everything.

What more can one say?

I don't give a toss what you write i DON'T READ your post either you got the drift?

STFU






Colky7 pal...This is the way the poseur reacts when he runs out of ammo...

^^^ Priceless isn't it?!! I might give my mate a call and see if i can book a glider lesson then i can say i've had more experience than Sampaix!!!

I'll take that as evidence that your claims to have held a pilots license are lies as like i said no one with your name has ever held a CAA license in the UK. Failing to respond also proves that its very unliekly you have ever flown gliders as well.

It seems your only talent is lying and being a sick little fantasist. Poor you.







I bet the idiot doesn't have a decent baccalaureate in France, let alone a pilot licence..
Imagine someone reading a 100 page introductory book on human anatomy and thinks he is an heart surgeon ! Sampaix and aerodynamics?? LOL... But the real tragedy is that some of the French posters who should be restraining this troll, seem to be egging him on..

Sampaix and aerodynamics?? LOL... But the real tragedy is that some of the French posters who should be restraining this troll, seem to be egging him on..
As amazing as it might sound, Sampaix has real experience in aerodynamic, some posters, with degree in aeronautic confirmed that.
And as I said, he is not the genius he thinks he is, but clowns like we have on many forums have no chance in hell to outperformed him in that aera.

>> As amazing as it might sound, Sampaix has real experience in aerodynamic, some posters, with degree in aeronautic confirmed that>>




Colky7 pal.. Do you see now what I was trying to explain in my previous post ?? here it is.. LOL.

>> And as I said, he is not the genius he thinks he is>>


genious ?? oh my god even the word irritates me when it is used in connection with Sampaix...



>> but clowns like we have on many forums have no chance in hell to outperformed him in that aera>>


Unfortunately clowns like you let him do your dirty job sorry .Without your encouragement he could never have achieved his notorious reputation and got his sorry asss kicked from 5 different forums in 5 years. A new world record??




Unless he comes up with a certificate issued from one of these,( École Nationale Supérieure delAéronautique et de lEspace (SUPAERO) or Ecole Nationale d'Ingénieurs des Constructions Aéronautiques (ENICA)) only an ignorant fool can believe his aerodynamic analysis with regard to Rafale or Typhoon. Actually you can do the same if you have a scanner and some introductory books and plenty of time .. I can recommend you one from AMAZON if you are interested.. MECANICS OF FLIGHT ..AC KERMODE with plenty of charts and exhibits. .If you have time you can be a second SAMPAIX its so easy..

I am laughing my head off while I am writing this pls don't take offence.. HAHAHAHAHAHHA



Here I agree with you 100% Jesse old boy Nobody can and will ever be able to outperform him in this one..




I am new here and i just wanted to warn you:

sampaix/fonck/gegene/thunder is the same guy and he is famous for trolling this kind of forum. He has been banned from ALL the forum he has posted. (even french forums). pprune, keypublishing, world's armed forces,eurofightertyphoonstarstreak.net , air défense.net...

he is always looking for places where he can argue that the rafala is the best...etc etc... Iam french and i also love the rafale but i am an air enthousiast above all. sampaix/fonck/gegene/thunder is the kind of person
who follows an endless war against all other competiting aircrafts. This behaviour is pretty pueril an i always wonder whether what is he doing of his life exept poluting forums like this one.

he tries to defend the rafale he is rafale worst threat on forum. even people who liked this aircraft before (with its qualities and flaws) tend to hate it.

regards

Colky7 pal.. Do you see now what I was trying to explain in my previous post ?? here it is.. LOL.
The problem is, some clowns such lile you, after a while forget that they are only that, clown without the beginning of a technical argument.

Unfortunately clowns like you let him do your dirty job sorry .Without your encouragement he could never have achieved his notorious reputation and got his sorry asss kicked from 5 different forums in 5 years. A new world record??
Listen little boy, I will not say that they sky is green only because you're color blind.
Sampaix proved several times that he as some real knowledge.
Sampaix proved several times that he refuse (or is not able) to see the limit of that knowledge.
That + an arrogant style and you know why he has been banned from so many website.

Unless he comes up with a certificate issued from one of these,( École Nationale Supérieure delAéronautique et de lEspace (SUPAERO)
In fact, me and others, we asked to several freshly SUPAERO graduated students, and it's them who confirmed that he has some real knowledge.
Of course, when you read "I can perfectly understand the aerodynamic of a plane ....." even them recognized that even an excellent ingeneer can't do it unless a real analysis and tests using expensive stuff.
When the french senat asked to Dassault CEO his opinion about the J-20, his anwser was that he don't have enough information to have a real opinion.
So ...


I am laughing my head off while I am writing this pls don't take offence.. HAHAHAHAHAHHA
You're welcome.

I do not know much, but I do think Thunder knows something about aerodynamics. Now I am not saying he is always correct about the Rafale, but I think he knows more about flying than me.

I think Thunder knows a bit about aerodynamics.

>>I do not know much, but I do think Thunder knows something about aerodynamics. Now I am not saying he is always correct about the Rafale, but I think he knows more about flying than me>>




He certainly has more books and magazines on the subject than you. He is an unemployed troll and certainly has more time than you and is considerably better equipped . Is this his hobby? sure but is he an expert ? My ASSS ,HELL NO ..As I said earlier ,I can read a 100 pages introductory book on human anatomy and start pretending to be an expert on heart surgery..




His analysis and assesments of Rafale or Typhoon are biased BULLLSHIITS which reflect nothing more than his lack of insight and understanding. He doesn't have the fraction of the knowledge and expertise and most important of all, the complete DATA neccessary to reach a conclusion.







JON LAKE'S FINAL CONCLUSION ...

it's pointless to try to argue with someone who is so convinced of French superiority that their mind is made up.

His analysis and assesments of Rafale or Typhoon are biased BULLLSHIITS which reflect nothing more than his lack of insight and understanding. He doesn't have the fraction of the knowledge and expertise and most important of all, the complete DATA neccessary to reach a conclusion.
But quite few people dare to fight him on that aspect.

JON LAKE'S FINAL CONCLUSION ...
it's pointless to try to argue with someone who is so convinced of French superiority that their mind is made up.
Be careful, by pointing a JL conclusion like that one, it only help Saimpaix to gain credibility.

>>But quite few people dare to fight him on that aspect>>


Few people would waste bandwidth with a notorious troll and Rafale fanboy with his school aerodynamics incapable of absorbing a counter argument.


>>Be careful, by pointing a JL conclusion like that one, it only help Saimpaix to gain credibility>>


On the contrary ,knowing who Sampaix,Fonck,gegene,Dare2 is ,nobody is surprised..

Few people would waste bandwidth with a notorious troll and Rafale fanboy with his school aerodynamics incapable of absorbing a counter argument.
Mmmh, that's not wrong