WAFF Vet Club[Click here to Join WAFF!] WAFF Moderators Forum
General Discussion
(The Den)
The World's Armed Forces Forum History, Politics, Economics and Religion Forum
Greece & Turkey Defence Forum Europe, Middle East & Africa
Defence Forum
Asia & Pacific Defence Forum
Help, Suggestions & Complaints
   
   
WAFF Debates Forum
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

March 16 2012 at 4:40 PM
No score for this post
Jake Rialto  (Login jrialto)
The Redcoats (UK)

French troops stationed in the country's south-west have been told not to wear their uniforms when off base, reports say.

The order comes after two paratroopers were shot dead and a third injured as they used a cash-point near their barracks on Thursday.

A single gunman on a scooter is said to have shot the three men in the south-western town of Montauban.

France's defence minister has said no theories are being ruled out.

[linked image]

Asked if terrorism could be the motive, Gerard Longuet said: "Nothing permits us to rule out one theory or another."

Reports suggest the same gun was used to kill another soldier on Sunday, in Toulouse.

Anti-terrorist police have reportedly been sent to Montauban.

France's elite airborne units are based in the south-west.

The dead paratroopers' regiment recently served in Afghanistan but French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said there was "no kind of proof or indication" of a link.

'No-one understands'

An army spokesperson told Agence France-Presse news agency that extra vigilance had been ordered, particularly at the entrances to barracks.

The orders on uniform affect service personnel at barracks in Toulouse, Montauban, Pamiers and Tarbes.

Two of Thursday's victims, aged 26 and 24, died on the spot while the third, 28, is in a critical condition.

Witnesses say one soldier tried to crawl away, but the helmeted attacker, in a black motorcycle outfit, turned him over and shot him again before escaping on the scooter.

All three victims were sappers with the 17th Parachute Engineer Regiment, based in Montauban, a picturesque town of 56,000 people in the Midi-Pyrenees region.

[linked image]

Mayor Brigitte Bareges said the motive for the attack was a mystery.

"Montauban does not understand," she said.

"No-one understands. The regiment does not understand. There's never a valid explanation for murder but we're dealing with a true killer."

Police said the soldiers had been withdrawing cash at around 14:10 (13:10 GMT) when they were attacked, but theft did not appear to be the motive.

The attacker, wearing a helmet with a visor, sped off after opening fire.

Some 15 spent cartridges were found at the scene, police said.

A team of about six officers from the Anti-Terrorist Sub-Branch (SDAT) were dispatched under the leadership of the Judicial Police's central director, Christian Lothion, private French radio station Europe 1 reports.
Gun link?

According to the Spanish news agency Efe, the SDAT is examining a possible link between the Montauban shooting and Sunday's attack, in which a 30-year-old soldier was shot dead by an assailant on a motorcycle in a residential area of Toulouse, 46km (29 miles) south of Montauban.

French public radio station France Info said it had information that the same gun had been used in the Montauban and Toulouse attacks.

Ballistics tests established that it was a 11.43-calibre handgun, the radio said. (Actually 11.43mm - .45 calibre ACP J.R.)

[linked image]

However, French Interior Minister Claude Gueant said that while it may have been the same calibre, it was "not necessarily the same weapon", Le Nouvel Observateur magazine reports.

While there are similarities between the two attacks - the weapon, the use of a two-wheeled vehicle, the targeting of soldiers - there are differences too, France's AFP news agency notes.

The soldier killed in Toulouse was off duty and in civilian dress, while those attacked in Montauban were in uniform.

However, the Montauban attacker appears to have deliberately targeted soldiers, according to Pascal Paga, who owns a bakery near where the shooting occurred.

The gunman, he said, had pushed aside an elderly person waiting in line to use the cash-point before opening fire

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17397354


    
This message has been edited by jrialto on Mar 16, 2012 4:42 PM


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
WAFFer
(Login notanonymous)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 16 2012, 5:09 PM 

If I had a billion dollars I'd bet every single last penny of it, even on bad odds, that the perpetrator is not French but "French." You know, one of those very "diverse" individuals that
contributes so much to the "vibrancy" of a "multicultural" nation such as France.


waffpic.jpg

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login notanonymous)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 16 2012, 5:18 PM 

And oh yeah, I forgot to add-although it goes without saying-diversity is strength!

waffpic.jpg

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login schlawa)
Panzer Brigade (Germany)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 16 2012, 5:49 PM 

Instead of disguising them as civilians, how about giving them concealed guns and bullet proof vests to defend themselfs outside bases ?

RIP to the soldiers.

[linked image][linked image]

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login kamel_bylka)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 16 2012, 7:00 PM 

military victims are three Arab and African, rather racist crime.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

Timbits20
(Login timbits20)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 17 2012, 3:56 AM 

May they Rest in Peace.

May the son-of-a-bitch get captured and (as close as possible) be crucified.

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login Aarif)
Shaheens (Pakistan)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 17 2012, 6:02 PM 

someone just lost their billion dollars

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Glitter
(Login jesse04)
La Grande Armee (France)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 19 2012, 10:33 AM 

It seems that it's the same guy who kiled several people in front of a jewish school.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17426313

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

WAFFer
(Login GER_Mark)
Panzer Brigade (Germany)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 19 2012, 10:39 AM 

must be someone who doesnt like his country to become african/arab [linked image]

[linked image]

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

WAFFer
(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 19 2012, 1:04 PM 

The same person killed 4 jews. atleast same automatic gun used and close from where soldiers got killed. You know I got the feeling if the killer was muslim he would have been apprehended long time ago and the news would be filled with it. I have this native flying under the radar kind of thing. Like Jeffrey Dahmer driving around with dumpster plastic bags in the middle of the night. Police believed his '' I just mowed the lawn'' story. If the dude was black he would have been tazed 3 times,get sprinkled with crack and having 10 different law inforcements beat his arse. Lmao.

[linked image]

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login notanonymous)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 21 2012, 7:42 AM 

someone just lost their billion dollars

Who dat be, biatch?

waffpic.jpg

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login jrialto)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 21 2012, 9:28 AM 

A gunman suspected of killing three children and a rabbi at a Jewish school wounded three police officers in a shoot-out at a house in Toulouse in south-western France on Wednesday and said he was a member of al Qaeda.

Interior Minister Claude Gueant said the man targeted in the raid was a 24-year-old man who had visited Afghanistan and Pakistan, and had shot dead the four out of revenge for France's military involvement abroad. He is also suspected by authorities of having killed three soldiers of North African origin last week.

President Nicolas Sarkozy, campaigning for re-election in a presidential poll in five weeks time, has blamed racism for Monday's school attack. His handling of the crisis could be a decisive factor in determining how the French people vote.

"He claims to be a mujahideen and to belong to al Qaeda," Gueant told journalists in Toulouse, referring to the gunman.

"He wanted revenge for the Palestinian children and he also wanted to attack the French army because of its foreign intervention."

France has troops in Afghanistan as part of NATO forces.

Gueant did not say how they had tracked the man down, but that police were talking to his brother at a separate location in connection to the killings.

His mother had also been brought to the scene to help negotiate with the man, who is holed up in a small apartment building in the leafy neighbourhood.

Heavily armed police in bullet-proof vests and helmets cordoned off the area where the raid was taking place, in a suburb a few kilometres from the Ozar Hatorah Jewish school where Monday's shootings took place.

Reuters witnesses heard several shots at about 04:40 a.m. British time.

A police source said the police could launch an assault if the standoff lasted for some time. "There are more and more people around, so this creates a dangerous situation."

Gueant said Sarkozy had been informed of the raid which began at 3:00 a.m. (02:00 a.m. British time). When he was the mayor of a upmarket Paris suburb, Sarkozy helped negotiate the end of a hostage crisis involving several children. It has been credited with boosting his political career.

Immigrants and Islam have been major themes of the campaign as Sarkozy tried to win over the voters of far-right leader Marine Le Pen. Analysts say the shootings could transform the election debate and possibly tone down the populist rhetoric.

Jean Marc, a 56-year-old restaurant owner in the city who declined to give his last name, said he believed the crisis would benefit the far right or Sarkozy in the election.

"The Socialists don't talk about this stuff and it shows they don't know what they are doing," he said. "They (the police) need to get this guy."

Earlier on Wednesday, police sources told Reuters that a man had been arrested at a separate location in connection with the killings.

Authorities believe that the gunman in the school shooting was the same person responsible for killing three soldiers of North African origin in two shootings last week in Toulouse and the nearby town of Montauban.

The same Colt 45 handgun was used in all three attacks and in each case the gunman arrived on a Yamaha scooter with his face hidden by a motorcycle helmet.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/03/21/uk-france-crime-idUKBRE82I07O20120321

________________________________________________________________________________


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Jake Rialto
(Login jrialto)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 21 2012, 12:44 PM 

Sourcehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2012/mar/21/france-shooting-toulouse-police-suspects-jewish-school-raid?newsfeed=true

11.19am: Details of the suspect's time in Afghanistan are still sketchy, but Le Monde is reporting that he went twice to Pakistan, once in 2010 and again 2011, to speak with groups of fighters based in the tribal regions near the border with Afghanistan. The paper claims that he trained in the camps there alongside the Pakistani Taliban, foreign jihadis and members of the Haqqani network and that he even crossed the border into Afghanistan as part of groups sent to fight Nato troops.

It says he is understood to have stopped off in Waziristan before heading to Kandahar and Zabul in the south of Afghanistan. Interestingly, it also says that he was stopped by police on the outskirts of Kandahar city. Although he was not arrested, his presence in the region as a foreign national was unusual enough for the police to report him to the Afghan intelligence services, who reportedly then passed on the information to western intelligence services.

It's unclear how Le Monde's claims tally with those of the director of Kandahar prison.

11.16am: According to the Kandahar prison director, the suspect escaped in 2008 during an insurgent attack on the jail.

11.09am: The director of Kandahar prison in Afghanistan has identified the suspect as Mohammed Merah a name that has also been given to AFP by a source close to the Toulouse investigation.

The prison director, Ghulam Faruq, has told Reuters that the man was arrested for planting bombs in Kandahar and sentenced to three years' imprisonment before he escaped during a mass Taliban jailbreak.

If this turns out to be true, the French governement and security services who are understood to have been following the suspect for years are going to face some very tough questions

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

Eric
(Login Nighthawk00)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 22 2012, 8:02 PM 

If I had a billion dollars I'd bet every single last penny of it, even on bad odds, that the perpetrator is not French but "French." You know, one of those very "diverse" individuals that
contributes so much to the "vibrancy" of a "multicultural" nation such as France.
---
May all those who silently were awaiting to rub this into notan's face come forth and admit they were wrong. Yes, I'm looking at you!

crossroadsbakerexplosio.jpg

An unavoidable war is called justice.
When brutality is the only option left,
it is holy.
Machiavelli - The Prince 1513.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"

I'm not American, I'm from Flanders.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

Niroo_Hawaii
(Login Niroo_Hawaii)
Moderators

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 22 2012, 8:22 PM 

lol

Personally I wasnt involved in this thread prior, but everyone knows that notans comments were 100% based on the perception and assumption that the killed paratroopers were French and not "French". If he knew they were "French", he wouldnt bet a single cyber penny, nevertheless a billion cyber dollars.

So mute point

-----------------------------------------------------------------

[linked image]




"Iranian is by Virtue, Not by Blood"

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

Eric
(Login Nighthawk00)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 22 2012, 8:30 PM 

I fail to understand your logic:
-If he knew something why wouldn't he bet? Seems like an extremely easy way to make money.
-Yes notan did bet that the fvcker was "french" and said it out loud because the media were saying the fvcker was a neo-nazist and thus french. So doesn't that make his bet bolder going against seemingly all odds?


Still I fail to see how this is relevant in any way to the point notan was making and even to what I said?

crossroadsbakerexplosio.jpg

An unavoidable war is called justice.
When brutality is the only option left,
it is holy.
Machiavelli - The Prince 1513.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"

I'm not American, I'm from Flanders.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

Niroo_Hawaii
(Login Niroo_Hawaii)
Moderators

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 22 2012, 10:32 PM 

You probably fail to understand b/c of your intellectual capability, and frankly I dont care.
I referred to notans assumption about the VICTIMS being french and not "french" = meanning not french by blood but instead some north african arab "degenerates". Go back and read again.

Why? Cuz notan has clearly stated numerous times before that he wouldnt give a ratz azz if "muslims" killed "muslims". So if he knew the paratroopers were muslims, he wouldn't even have commented.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

[linked image]




"Iranian is by Virtue, Not by Blood"

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Glitter
(Login jesse04)
La Grande Armee (France)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 23 2012, 12:44 PM 

May all those who silently were awaiting to rub this into notan's face come forth and admit they were wrong. Yes, I'm looking at you!

Well, that guy was 100% french so technically, he is still wrong [linked image]

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

WAFFer
(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 23 2012, 2:21 PM 

Toulouse terrorist is French first, not really Algerian, and never a real Muslim.


The lump in the collective throat of Frances Muslim community has been confirmed: the man who claimed responsibility for the murder of seven people in what has been a horror movie of an affair was a self-styled mujahedeen named Mohammed Merah, a Franco-Algerian. Or perhaps: A French national of Algerian origin. Or maybe: A French citizen of Algerian descent.

But not French

In the English-speaking media such ethnic designations have been indispensable for describing Merah, but not in the French media. This may come as a surprise to many. Yes, Merahs North African heritage is mentioned in the French press, sometimes even up near the lede paragraph, but often not at all.

Several French journalists I spoke to expressed surprise that Merahs Algerian background has nearly always been mentioned in the English-speaking press. But to the French journalists, Merah was French: period. This is a reflection of the French principle of maintaining a complete disregard for religious or ethnic affiliations when it comes to describing a French citizen.

France is not a color

And for that we should give France some credit. After all, France is the only European colonial empire that ever made real attempts to turn foreign lands into French soil. There are 2.7 million people represented in French parliament who live in Frances overseas departments and territories, many with the right of citizenship. French people will vote in the upcoming presidential election, and even use the euro, in South America, the Caribbean and other lands which probably never grew a grape.

For decades Frances parliament was often subject to the desires of the French-Algerian bloc, which demanded concessions for the pied-noir settlers even when public opinion in mainland France sided with Algerian independence. Of course Franco-Algerian-Arabs (it does get complicated, doesnt it?) were never awarded the same rights in apartheid Algeria to begin with, but such were the poor morals of the day, and contrasted with Britain, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, et al, France was different, and these differences have shaped modern Frances decidedly different view of race, religion and ethnicity.

Its difficult for me to explain to many non-French that the average French person simply wont discuss issues of color or creed. Under French law they feel everyone is equal, and thats that. And Im talking about average people who are non-white: blacks with a background in West Africa, 3rd generation immigrants from Istanbul or from people whose grandparents hailed from what used to be called French Indochina.

Its admirable, its modern and for many Ive spoken with in France it works.

But only sometimes, because willful ignorance is certainly a double-edged sword: A horse with blinders on may concentrate better when running a race, but take the blinders off and you dont want to be standing behind it.

French in good times and bad times

Frances neutrality often means less appreciation for the institutional problems facing their largest minority Muslims. By not counting their numbers, establishing affirmative-action problems or addressing the bias the problems by those who only pay lip-service to the nations notion of colorblindness, Frances Muslims, and other significant minorities, relinquish their collective power.

Thats why its so important in times of possible racial scapegoating that France proudly affirm the Frenchness of Mohammad Merah. Now, more than ever, France better defend the idea that Merah was as French as a baguette.

Because certainly they cant have it both ways: Denying minorities the chance to benefit from the advantages of their communal power during the good times and then playing up their differences when they most need the promised protection of blindness.

Merahs actions fooled many into initially thinking the killer was a right-wing, European terrorist. But we werent fooled: thats exactly what Merah was.

Early suspicion fell on three French paratroopers who had been dishonorably discharged due to their links to neo-Nazi groups. Many facts of the case dovetail more with a Western-style of terrorism usually committed by those of white European descent: A nihilistic disregard for human life, evidenced by taking the lives of innocent children, the lack of immediately claiming responsibility in order to justify the heinous acts by espousing a certain ideology and the fact that these were not suicide missions but calculating, cold-blooded murder.

That many initially suspected someone of (purely white) European descent is actually a testament to the level of integration achieved by Frances Muslims: Merah appears to have conducted his terror campaign like a proper European psychopath. Yet I dont think hell be on the next poster for French-Arab unity.

Muslims brace for backlash, but hope a candidate transcends the hate

As a Press TV correspondent in Paris has spoken to hundreds of Frances Muslims about their issues and concerns. While their usually negative depiction by the French media is almost universally aggravating, they are largely inured to being scapegoated by politicians. As Frances presidential election is barely a month away, how the Merah case will be utilized by the candidates, and how the electorate views such treatment, will be very telling as to how French society truly views the Muslim and immigrant communities.

Marine Le Pen, the presidential candidate of the far-right National Front, showed no shame in immediately trying to make political hay of the murders, lambasting the Sarkozy government for underestimating the homegrown threat of Frances Muslims to public safety and the ubiquity of kabob stands to national waistlines (ok, not that second part). That contrasted, thankfully, with the more enlightened calls for calm and shunning of political opportunism promoted by front-running Socialist candidate Francois Hollande, the centrist Francois Bayrou, running fourth in expected first-round voting, and the commendable attitude of far-left, communist-allied candidate Jean-Luc Melenchon, placing fifth, who said, Theres a degree of violence and stigmatization in French society thats growing - its unacceptable.

Of course, all eyes are on the leader. Many are waiting to see which tack President Nicolas Sarkozy will take. In the 2007 campaign he narrowly edged the Socialist candidate by amping up his favorite top cop pose and brandishing xenophobia as though it provided an actual program for positive change in French society.

Will the actions of a serial killer, the first school shooting in French history and the gripping siege of a madman actually change the minds of voters?

Sarkozy already played the hate card in 2007.

Many I have spoken with post-shooting immediately handed the 2012 election to Sarkozy. Even though the killings scream for France to reduce its level of racism and colonialism of course there is no justification for such horrendous actions, but the killer said his reasons were Frances involvement in Afghanistan, Frances recent anti-burqa law as well as French support for Israel (apparently he remembers the time before Sarkozy, when France was counted as an Arab ally) many expect France to vote with a gut full of fear instead of a head full of thankfulness at not being included among the dead.

I find this lack of faith in Frenchmen and Frenchwomen surprising.

I can assure you that France already had a gut-level dislike for Sarkozy before the shootings occurred. Even his supporters, who believed his unfulfilled 2007 campaign promises, seem to regard him warily. Theres a collective feeling that his personality and his policies - his callousness towards common people, his materialism, his wars, his staggering string of scandals, his certain dates with judicial investigators once his presidential immunity expires have dishonored the presidency and thus all of France in the eyes of the world.

And if Sarkozy turns even further to the far-right to profit off the massacre I dont think France will be fooled twice. That would be a strategy which wont surprise anybody, and Sarkozy knows he needs to change: This is a candidate who has been desperately trying to remake his image for several years. Waving the bloody flag of Toulouse will only confirm that the Sarkozy up for re-election is the same opportunist theyve made the most unpopular president in postwar history.

I think French voters will tap the anti-austerity Hollande to take the reins, as long as he avoids trying to pull Muslims and immigrants into the dirt; if he can retain his dignity. Heck, the Socialists couldnt even do that remember Dominique Strauss-Kahn and theyre still at least 10 points ahead in the final round.

Ultimately, France is a nation hungry for unity and calm after five years of a divisive and hyperactive president. Theyre looking for someone who wont raise the retirement age and more economic barriers during tough economic times. Theyd also like to avoid as a handful of terrible wars in the past 150 years proves becoming the puppet of self-righteous German bluster.

If Im wrong, then for all of Frances supposed high-mindedness and fancy culture theyre actually as dumb as the Americans who gave George W. Bush a second term.

Like the United States, France apparently is capable of generate gun-toting psychopaths who want to tar everyone in a certain group with the same brush. Lets hope such negative similarities don't last through France's presidential election.

RM/JR


Maybe the French think differently.

[linked image]

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Glitter
(Login jesse04)
La Grande Armee (France)

Re: France paratroop killings spur ban on off-base uniforms

No score for this post
March 23 2012, 3:08 PM 

Excellent article, really.


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
 
< Previous Page 1 2 Next >
  Respond to this message   
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
WAFF recommends these sites

Indian Defence Analysis      [Definitive Lapse of Reason]