Hi, what would be your views on Malaysia vs Singapore in 2012? I think Malaysia has a British MBT and SG has Leopard 2A4. Please state your views with good etiquette . Thanks !

Iran is going to win, followed by China!!!!

This is Singapore vs Malaysia not Iran vs China.

Get your facts straight about the OOB. And this is a stupid thread, so it would be wise to lock it.

The duty of the Army during Peace is to prepare for War.

Tanks usually get blown up by airplanes.

Angola

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Next time there is no next time

Angola's businesses beat most of Europe to 4G mobile services

It is 10 years since the end of Angola's civil war.

The country has made enormous strides in rebuilding its economy, which is expected to grow by around 8% this year.

Much of that is due to the country's enormous oil reserves - it's now the second biggest producer in Africa.

The rapid growth in the economy has led to a boom in infrastructure development.

That's evident in the capital Luanda, where you'll see the skyline being transformed by newly-built towers of glass and steel.

Look out to the coast from downtown and you'll be greeted by the spectacle of a vast sweep of land being reclaimed from the sea, to build a dramatic new peninsula.

Expect a new marina, yet more skyscrapers and fancy restaurants to populate the area, in the years to come.
Going mobile

But infrastructure growth doesn't just mean more office blocks and motorways.

It also means a big upgrade in the mobile phone network available to Angolans. They're in the process of getting high-speed 4G services - ahead of most of Europe and many parts of the US - thanks to a $100m project underway there.

It means customers in Luanda will enjoy faster mobile download speeds than their counterparts in London or Lisbon.

The phone operator is Movicel - the one of Africa's biggest GSM providers.



Antonio Francisco is chief operations officer and insists that his country must have the best technology available in order to boost economic development.

"The telecoms sector is a strategic sector," he tells me in the company's swish new offices away from the bustle of downtown Luanda.

"We can't think about the growth of the economy unless we have telecoms infrastructure well done. What we're doing is bringing the newest technology that can provide better mobile broadband."
Chinese connection

Movicel has partnered with Chinese phone giant ZTE to bring in 4G.

The firm is providing all the equipment - including handsets. It will also play a crucial role in the $1bn upgrade of Movicel's entire system.

But ZTE doesn't do any manufacturing in Angola - it brings in all its equipment direct from China.



"We cannot manufacture even the phones or the equipment here", explains ZTE Angola general director Frank Mei.

"Honestly speaking, the education level in this country is still a bit low. I think its because of the war.

"During the war, all the educational resources quit the country. So they've only started to build the educational system now. In our industry, most of the qualified engineers come from abroad."

The initial 4G roll-out includes the oil-producing region of Cabinda, as well as 15 densely-populated cities and towns including Luanda.

The next phase will take in another 30 cities. The operator is expecting to have a million 4G customers by the end of the year. It's part of a wider strategy to boost its overall subscriber base from 4.5m to 7m.

Movicel is also expected to place an order for 4G tablet computers.
Poverty trap

There's no doubt that economic growth has boosted prosperity in some quarters.

For instance, the local Porsche dealership is doing a roaring trade - and complains of struggling to keep up with demand.

But its important to remember that this is still a poor country - where almost 70% of people are thought to live below the poverty line.

So against that backdrop - can 4G really be a success here?



"We are playing a game of the future," according to Movicel chief executive officer (CEO) Yon Junior.

"We are building an elegant network to speed up the growth of this country.

"But it's not just a question of technology. It has to be affordable according to the country's needs and capacity to pay."

He also insists the company wants to empower local people.

"More than 95% of my technical team comes from Angola," he tells me. "And we have great support from the Chinese company [ZTE] in transferring knowledge and experience."

As Angola builds for the future, it seems clear that telecoms and technology will play a central role in revolutionising the country's fortunes.

The fact that 4G is coming here ahead of so much of the world shows not just the power of a rapidly expanding market - but the power of a super-charged economy.

Willing to bet Singapore would mop the floor with the Malay hordes. SG forces train a lot for a small nation and as such I'm willing to bet theyre well prepared for anyhting that can be thrown at them.


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Tu dhoop hain jham se bikhar
Tu hai nadee o bekhabar
Beh chal kahin ud chal kahin
Dil khush jahan teri toh manzil hai wahin.

You sure Malaysia have a British MBT???

Singapore is practically European. It wins by default.

^^how is it european??


@jake rialto: Angola seems to be fairly modern compared with other african nations

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Next time there is no next time

It hasn't been discovered by many Americans yet. I was there in February, it was a great place.

Malaysia has no Challenger 2 tanks. Instead it has 48 Polish built T-72s, well, PT-91s, but they're still Polish built T-72s.

Singapore, on the other hand, has 132 Leopard 2s.

Now, how much either of these tanks would affect the outcome of a conflict between the two would be problematic. It is interesting that someone from Singapore doesn't know what sort of tanks Malaysia has. It's curious.

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"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little. It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny. Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation." John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.

In that case Singapore would win by armour. Leopards can shoot 3km can reach M'sia. But then the minute they reach the jungles SG will get into a bloodbath

Malaysia can cut off much of Singapore's water.

.

singapore is the size of a zit.it cannot defend in depth.it has at any given time part of its defence force over seas trainning as there isnt enough space.singapore is seperated by waterways from malaysia and imo would face a greater threat from indonesia.
its airforce survival depends on motorways and uraban concealment.
as regards tanks?,not the key weapon.if malaysia were to invest in say BM30's or artillery in numbers that would IMO be the deciding factor
malaysia wouldnt need to invade singapore,singapore would capitulate under incessant bombing.

"if malaysia were to invest in say BM30's or artillery in numbers that would IMO be the deciding factor"

Invest? u mean corruption?
If? If Sg invested on nuke, it's game over.

singapore will win without much sweat.
it has more then 3 times the defense budget of malayans.
more then twice the airforce.
more artilary more big guns etc etc etc.

so on paper singapore looks much much stronger then malayans.

True. Singapore plans to use more(I think 8%) of GDP to upgrade its army. Probably use it on navy things. BTW Singapore does rely on M'sia for water but now has reverse osmosis and can get water from Indonesia. Although I think SG has to bomb the jungles to penetrate into southern Malaysia first(which will be very difficult since M'sia isn't that stupid to let themselves get bombed.

Singapore would win .. even India would be crushed by Singapore easily .. don't believe me ... just try to invade Singapore ... I would bet all my $$$ on Singapore

Yes, Singapore's army is best at defence but it can also go offensive.

lol this aussie aborigie qwerty guy sure can troll anywhere.

Joke of the Day, Singapore is far to few in number to pose a match against malaysia. Only 5,5 Million! Even fewer then israel.

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''Nothing is true, Everything is permitted'' Hasan ibn Sabbah

Politically, the US, EU and China would back Singapore.

The Islam or Middle East countries would back Malaysia

British tanks in malaysia service?

Prior to the introduction of the polish T-72, he would be refering to the 26 scorpion light tanks, also known as the FV101 Scorpion British armoured reconnaissance vehicle in the west.

are u sure u from sin? gdp spending top is about 6%.

"Joke of the Day, Singapore is far to few in number to pose a match against malaysia. Only 5,5 Million! Even fewer then israel."

Apart from numbers, it's important to see who is running the show. Just like the numerical superior Arab vs Israel.

Malaysia is an important trade partner of Turkey and There are also some serious defence cooperation projects proceeding between two friendly countries. No need to mention the religious symphaties between nations so I think At a likely conflict, Turkey will support the Malaysia against Singapore.



Discover

Turk Insani Para Gibidir. Icine Isik Tut Ataturk Yoksa Sahtedir...

"At a likely conflict, Turkey will support the Malaysia against Singapore."

What support? Moral support? You don't have the projection power like the US or Brits. How to support?

Pardon me for saying this but can the Mods close this thread. The TS seems to need a bit more research with his knowledge.

Further more i thought such 'ABC vs XYZ' threads are being discouraged.

Malaysia is an important trade partner of Turkey and There are also some serious defence cooperation projects proceeding between two friendly countries. No need to mention the religious symphaties between nations so I think At a likely conflict, Turkey will support the Malaysia against Singapore.
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It doesn't matter what/whom turds and araps support.

What about without any allies? Which army is stronger as of now?

This TS is definitely not a Singaporean or one who has not served his National Service in the Singapore Armed Forces. He is trying to flame the amicable relationship between Singapore and Malaysia in this forum. F**king retard! I am a Singaporean and I have served my time in the Singapore Armed Forces. No serving Singaporean or ex-serving Singaporean will seriously want to open such topics regarding our country's military strength due to OPSEC. Singaporean forummers should know better than to discuss openly our country's military. The lesser it is exposed the better.

Hate to tell you this buddy, but you're on a military discussion forum.

MBT338, with china and indonesia breathing down malaysia's neck, i think the last thing malaysia needs is to create another enemy at its doorstep.

both nation has territorial dispute with malaysia.

wait... MBT338 ... are you from china or from indonesia?

i guess indonesia.



sorry bro, but my country already make our position very clear, if both malaysia and indonesia want to kill each other, we will NOT take sides.



in short, we do not want to encourage a war right in front of our door.



so if indonesia must kick malaysia butt, please do it far from us. thank you.

^^^
Probably from China,

mostly Indonesian Military Enthusiasts know that Malaysia have Pendekar..

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This TS is definitely not a Singaporean or one who has not served his National Service in the Singapore Armed Forces. He is trying to flame the amicable relationship between Singapore and Malaysia in this forum. F**king retard!

> Most but not all serving soldiers would call it amicable. Singapore has a conscript military and therefore one diverse in views. Have you seen the comments on youtube? Nationalism pervades in Singapore as a theme of daily life, not least encouraged by the local establishment which isn't very popular at the moment. Cooler heads always prevail though because the establishment has the most to lose in a war.

I am a Singaporean and I have served my time in the Singapore Armed Forces. No serving Singaporean or ex-serving Singaporean will seriously want to open such topics regarding our country's military strength due to OPSEC. Singaporean forummers should know better than to discuss openly our country's military. The lesser it is exposed the better.

> The military balance is available open source. This is the internet. Anyone on arms trade registers or wikipedia can read about the armed scout helicopters and the like.

Singapore, on the other hand, has 132 Leopard 2s.

> Singapore has 66 Leopard 2A4s, some upgraded with IBD active countermeasures and 30 "spare" tanks. 96 total. 132 counts the spare tanks again.

There was a follow on order for 36 more tanks with more spares. So, there are at least 132 leo 2s. These tanks have been upgraded to the leo 2sg standard. The modifications are quite extensive and involves new battle management systems, data-bus, new auxiliary power units, new fire control systems, new running gear, new armour modules, etc.

Singapore outclasses the malaysians in practically all areas. Pretty dumb for the malaysians to do anything. In fact, SEA and Oceania orbats are smaller relative to other regions because a lot of these developing countries dont have the money for practical budgets. Someone cited water - it is already diversified. At any rate, the two countries are ostensible allies under the fpda. War will not happen. If anything, Singapore need only buy the Malaysian politicians.

''What support? Moral support? You don't have the projection power like the US or Brits. How to support?''

Just like at the Korean war, That kind of Support.

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''Nothing is true, Everything is permitted'' Hasan ibn Sabbah

what if malaysia's opponent is china (with 1.4 billion population) or indonesia (with 200+ million muslims), would turkey still help malaysia or will turkey only help malaysia because singapore (with 5 million population) is easier to bully?

do the turkish people have no pride or do they think so lowly of malaysians?



with respect to singapore malaysia relationship, with the resolution of several major issues;

1. island of pedra brance dispute through the ICJ.
2. malaysia return of all singapore railway land.
3. singapore diversification of water supply through technology.
4. point 22 territorial dispute through the ITLOS.

chances of a conflict between the two are much reduced.



depsite the peace, of course we will still keep our vigilance,

how tunkey going to support malaysia,the av8 ordered by malaysia was abit late right? btw, how the 52-cal howiter, some were given to pakistan right?maybe next time ..?

what if malaysia's opponent is china (with 1.4 billion population) or indonesia (with 200+ million muslims), would turkey still help malaysia or will turkey only help malaysia because singapore (with 5 million population) is easier to bully?

do the turkish people have no pride or do they think so lowly of malaysians?
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Singapore has too many friends to be bullied by Turdgay. Toorks are known to jump up and down thinking they are supapawa. They have threatened Russia, CHina, Israel, France, Iran, Greece, EU etc. Even Arabs laugh at them. Turdgay couldn't help Azerbaijan and helping Malaysia against Singapore. LOL!

Did you know Toorks plan to have 3 Aircraft carrier in pacific ocean by 2015 and ICBM of 10000km by 2017? As a singaporean you should tremble now, LOL! COllect some donkeys and offer them too toorks, and Turdgay will spare you...aha ha ha...

Dispute between Malaysia is curtain but to think they would chose Singapore over Malaysia is mad thinking.

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''Nothing is true, Everything is permitted'' Hasan ibn Sabbah

I think China favors Malaysia over Singapore. Malaysia is China's biggest trading partner in SEA, amounting to about $75 billion in 2011. With Malaysia, China seems to thread softly when comes to Spratly issue, but won't hesitate to crush Vietnam and provoking the Philippines. China also has always kind of leery with Western worshiping Singaporeans. On the other hand, Indonesia and Malaysia are brothers, either by blood and religion. Despite all those heated rhetoric about war, the chances of a full blown war is very minimal, though I won't rule out minor border skirmishes in the future.

i'm think also malaysia got some islands in south china sea that belongs to china n vice verse? then who support who?

if trade figures are representative on relationship. US and EU would be way up there with china, follow closely by JAPAN and SK.

while malaysia would be somewhere far below around position 15 to 20, next to singapore.

"Just like at the Korean war, That kind of Support."

And which role does Turkey wants to play? China or UN? Thinking about it, neither, coz you don't have the capability.