Pakistani refusal to open Afghan supply routes costing the NATO more than $1 million per day
May 11, 2012 3:49 pm
0 comments




Claire McCaskill, the Democrat senator from the state of Missouri claimed that NATO is losing more than $1 million every day because of Pakistans refusal to allow fuel supplies to Afghanistan.


The NATO is currently using the Northern Distribution Network (NDN) to supply fuel and other supplies to its troops in Afghanistan, which is lengthier and considerably costlier, as compared to the Karachi-Peshawar route (Southern Distribution Network). The increasing transport costs have dealt a heavy blow to the NATO troops in Afghanistan, which are already affected badly by the sharp rise in crude oil prices.

The senator claimed that the armed forces are facing an additional bill of $1.3 billion as a result of the increase in crude oil prices. She said that the closure of the Pak supply route is further putting in pressure on their already critical financial state. Pakistan closed the supply route after the November 26 cross-border NATO air raid, which killed 24 of its troops in 2011.

The Vice Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force, Gen. Philip Breedlove said during the same congressional hearing that the armed forces are likely to face further additional bills and operational delays if Pakistan refuses to reopen the Ground Lines of Communication (GLOCs).

NATO is having two primary supply routes for its troops and vehicles in Afghanistan. The first and the shortest one is the Southern Distribution Network (SDN). The SDN starts from Karachi, then splitting in to two at Sindh. The first one travels towards the South Eastern Afghan city of Qandahar. The second one goes toward Multan, from there to Peshawar and terminates at Kabul after travelling through Jalalabad.

The NDN is considerably longer, starting at the Black Sea port of Poti (Georgia) and then reaching the Caspian coast city of Baku after travelling through Tbilisi. From Baku, the oil and other supplies are transported to the Kazakh port of Aktau. It travels further south through Termez in Uzbekistan, finally reaching Mazar-e-Sharif in Northern Afghanistan. The NDN started operating from 2008 onward, when the NATO decided to bypass Pakistan as a result of frequent attacks by Taliban and other insurgent groups. In 2011, the NDN was transporting as much as 35% more supplies when compared with the SDN


http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/post

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Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

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On the other hand, if the US hasn't reinstated their 800 million USD in military aid, they will still be up on the deal by the time their troops are out.

"The NDN started operating from 2008 onward, when the NATO decided to bypass Pakistan as a result of frequent attacks by Taliban and other insurgent groups."

Hmmmm...what other insurgent groups...the Pakistani army/intelligence services?

I think anyone with an IQ higher than Prado knows that basically the NATO convoys were basically being looted by the Pakistani authorities to help support the Taliban and Islamic terrorist groups around the world.

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$1m per day?

Thats not even a drop in the ocean to what daily operations are costing!!

If it is not costing NATO anything then why are they crying crazy. The insurgency in Pakistan has come down since we have stopped NATO supplies. Let them bleed in afghanistan and with no supplies from Pakistan they cant support TTP terrorists and how would they support the camps to train the terrorists to enter Pakistan.

"If it is not costing NATO anything then why are they crying crazy."

I appreciate that living in a country like Pakistan you need to believe that your country is actually relevant on the international stage...I assure you that Pakistan is indeed front and center on the international stage...entirely as a cautionary example to other countries as to why attempting to play both sides fails in the long run...but nonetheless it is still there on stage.

"The insurgency in Pakistan has come down since we have stopped NATO supplies."

You have data to back that claim? Or like the most active member of the Shaheens are you are just making stuff up to make yourself feel better about your nationality?

"Let them bleed in afghanistan and with no supplies from Pakistan they cant support TTP terrorists and how would they support the camps to train the terrorists to enter Pakistan."

Again I will have ask regarding the alleged support for the TTP (sorry are they the good or bad Taliban?) by NATO or are you again just making stuff up to attempt to justify Pakistan's inept meddling in the affairs of other nations?

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Ah, nothing like having good ally like Pakistan.

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"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little. It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny. Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation." John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.

I think anyone with an IQ higher than Prado knows that basically the NATO convoys were basically being looted by the Pakistani authorities to help support the Taliban and Islamic terrorist groups around the world.
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RE: @coldale

you continue to impress me with your utter stupidity and lies.....it is no wonder any one can butt rape you 247. now for some facts...

1) the loss rate via pakistan is dispite what idiots like u think is less than 5%.... how do i know that? i have an uncle who works in Supreme.. now run a long

2) the USD 1 million figure is actually wrong.. it much worse than that... Supreme had done massive airlifts via Sharjah billing the US government over 120 million+ and continuing and now they even airlifting from riga caused by the back log of containers from the NDN route, as during the winter the road were almost closed by snow and adverse weather set in.

3) one of the reason why pakistan also wont open the supply line is bcos the Pakistan Army found the containers shipped via Karachi are being load with weapons destined for the BLA. Oh yes CIA was doing a covert war right under our noses.


PS if the route so unimportant why have you been threatening us to remove it?....

now take a very long walk

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Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

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"how do i know that? i have an uncle who works in Supreme"

Supreme? I must assume you are referring to this Supreme...

http://www.supremejanitorial.com/

...are you hoping to get to move to the USA once your Arab masters tire of watching you parade around in a French maid outfit?

As for the rest of your assertions, since you have been proven to be liar in 90% of your posts I will not waste my time verifying your figures since you likely made them up, in the end it is pretty much irrelevant since NATO is leaving the region, which will likely cause Pakistan to collapse.

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As for the rest of your assertions, since you have been proven to be liar in 90% of your posts I will not waste my time verifying your figures since you likely made them up, in the end it is pretty much irrelevant since NATO is leaving the region, which will likely cause Pakistan to collapse.

RE: the only liar is you, proven many times over.... but then again you are a infidel so what can one expect.


NATO is leaving? sure but not the americans they are planning to stay till at least till 2020.... oh and Pakistan will be fine one you leave... but the problem is you wont

PS: i happy to see NATO paying a high price for it;s folies.... a very expensive mistake you madeby messing with PA


PS the USD 120m+ figure i qouted doesnt even include the items which will have to been written of due to expiry issues stuck on the PAKLOG route... dont have that figure but if you want i can ask around. It should give you some more pain for the day knowing all that money going to a waste.....

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Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

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America is rely good at fu[king its self up, they are fighting basicly a blind war. The nation its self is not realising how badly it is shafting its self.

And yet the drone strikes continue.

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"deeds, not words"

The conniving and deceptive thinking the CIA holds and extremely anti muslim. I wont be surprised if they concoct something in Olympic village and blame it on Pakistan. I would be surprised if they dont do that.

One million a day is less then the average theft per day cost of shipping through Pakistan.

So overall it's still cheaper.

Mean while the cost for Pakistan of closing supply route is much much larger.

Just give it another six months and watch the bullets start flying in Pakistan over failure of government to reopen the supply route.

@Prado

If you have an example of me being proven a liar, than by all means share it with the rest of WAFF.

In support of my assertion of you being an idiot and a liar, I give the rest of WAFF last years Annual WAFF Awards...in which Prado won (in a landslide...the final post contains the vote count) "Most Owned" and came one vote shy of tying for the coveted Idiot of Year.

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@coldade

you liar easy... prove what i stated is wrong.. you cant so it makes u a liar.. duh...

oh please give up on the that silly vote content... all it proved the number of people i butt fuccked all over this forum.

now run along...

@siddar
One million a day is less then the average theft per day cost of shipping through Pakistan. ******

RE: and how would u know that?.... the numbers i qouted were just from one contractor.. US military had to it;s self special flights to make up for the supply short fall, and i no idea how much activity other private contractors were involved... it is very safe to Pakistan has made NATO a very high price.... 100m+ a cost of a raptor...... sweet





Mean while the cost for Pakistan of closing supply route is much much larger******

RE: not really it is paltry sum,little benefit to the economy v the destablisation effect it has caused us



Just give it another six months and watch the bullets start flying in Pakistan over failure of government to reopen the supply route.******

RE: shows how little u know. the current government is log head to open the supply line with Army. Army is todate refusing to do so... and six months pak elections around the opposition which expected to sweep the election has vowed to sever all links to this war including the air route... that should make the americans sqeel

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Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

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The cost to Pakistan of cutting the supply route is greater then the cost to the US shipping supplies through alternate routes.

There has always been a expensive airbridge into Afghanistan because Pakistan is simply not trust worthy enough to ship sensitive equipment over land through Pakistan.

If Pakistan cuts off overflights then US cuts military aid. So Pakistan just loses more money then it already has.

You think the Pakistani military is going to sit back and watch a large part of its budget just vanish because of some pro Taliban politicians want to make a symbolic statement? New government will set a record as fastest government to be overthrown in Pakistani history if it tries to cut military off from its US aid.

The only people I ever here talk about this issue are Pakistani nobody else in Afghanistan are West seems to have noticed this supply cut at all. Maybe that's because the majority of supplies had already been rerouted away from Pakistan before cut happened.

You claim some knowledge of the matter Prado so why don't you answer the question of how much money shutting down that supply route has cost the Pakistani economy over the past six months?

Pakistan has already lost more than 40billion over the last ten years due to this so called war on terror... this is according to government figures.

we may lose a few pennies that the government keeps for it;s self but the long term implication is better for us in the long term. For one finally show independence from what many observers refer to this as a master slave relationship,..

you can keep you money we dont want it.... no body except for US installed government in islamabad is interested.

Thank Allah for Pak army for keeping close as long as it has,it is at least some payback for the crimes the americans have done.

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Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

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Pakistan has already lost more than 40billion over the last ten years due to this so called war on terror... this is according to government figures.

we may lose a few pennies that the government keeps for it;s self but the long term implication is better for us in the long term. For one finally show independence from what many observers refer to this as a master slave relationship,..

you can keep you money we dont want it.... no body except for US installed government in islamabad is interested.

Thank Allah for Pak army for keeping close as long as it has,it is at least some payback for the crimes the americans have done.

---

Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

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Pakistan has already lost more than 40billion over the last ten years due to this so called war on terror... this is according to government figures.

we may lose a few pennies that the government keeps for it;s self but the long term implication is better for us in the long term. For one finally show independence from what many observers refer to this as a master slave relationship,..

you can keep you money we dont want it.... no body except for US installed government in islamabad is interested.

Thank Allah for Pak army for keeping close as long as it has,it is at least some payback for the crimes the americans have done.

---

Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

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Idiot spammer.

Pakistan created the Taliban so any cost Pakistan has paid is self inflicted.

You of course wont answer the question of how much the closure of supply route has cost Pakistan because doing so would show the complete stupidity of doing so.

Pakistan sure whines allot about cost and asks for lots of money while at the same time claiming they don't want the money.

Pakistan is a failed state its not advisable for any new government to cut off economic lifeline to other factions. Especially when those other faction have guns and have shown in the past there willingness to use them.

In reality USA created talibans....we never had the money ( and still dont have ) they backed out leaving armed trained anti-muslim "majuhideens" ( does it ring a bell). Today they are training Al-qaeda to dissuade from the truth.

In reality USA created talibans....we never had the money ( and still dont have ) they backed out leaving armed trained anti-muslim "majuhideens" ( does it ring a bell). Today they are training Al-qaeda to dissuade from the truth.

Now I'm curious, Undone. Did the US create the Haqqanies, too? Or just the Taliban and al Qeda? I'll bet the US created the bogeyman, too, right?

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"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little. It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny. Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation." John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.

Well yes you created haqani's too. He was invited to white house and met bush senior and he was given a royal reception. As for boogeyman i think it would come of the closet when you create a another false flag at the Olympics....either Pakistan or Iran.

Haqqani creators and now it is our headache. How sweet is that ?

As for boogeyman i think it would come of the closet when you create a another false flag at the Olympics....either Pakistan or Iran.

Yeah, I remember the one the US pulled off in 1972. It's amazing to me how EVERY bad thing that has EVER happened to ANYONE is a US false flag operation. Boy, the US is not only pure evil, but incredibily smart and all powerful. I think that last big earthquake in Pakistan, you know the one where the US donated millions in relief, was a US false flag operation. Boy, you guys are really smart to have figured all this stuff out. Maybe someday I'll be as smart as you.

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"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little. It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny. Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation." John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.

What about the haqqani factor that you created.....you have no answer to that ? Secondly Smart and all powerful for us is god and not USA. Lastly minus USA govt the world would be a peaceful place and their wont be no false flags be it for korean war or vietnam or the rest to come.

What about the haqqani factor that you created.....you have no answer to that ?

N o, no answer. All you said was the US created it as an unsupported assertion, offering no proof. So, there's no reason for me to respond to every unsupported assertion made by you.

Secondly Smart and all powerful for us is god and not USA.

Well, to hear you tell it the US is both very smart and very powerful to pull off all these false flag operations you allege, again with nothing more than unsupported assertions.

Lastly minus USA govt the world would be a peaceful place and their wont be no false flags be it for korean war or vietnam or the rest to come.

HMmmmm The world will be a peaceful place without the US? An interesting assertion, which frankly, you'll have a great deal of difficulty proving. After all, the world wasn't peaceful before there was a US, I seriously doubt human nature would change even without the US. As for your assertion about Korea and Vietnam, your history education seems to be as lacking as yoiu claim everyone else's to be.
 

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"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little. It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny. Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation." John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.

From wikipedia,

Mujahideen commander

In the 1980s, Jalaluddin Haqqani was cultivated as a "unilateral" asset of the CIA and received tens of thousands of dollars in cash for his work in fighting the Soviet-led Afghan forces in Afghanistan, according to an account in The Bin Ladens, a 2008 book by Steve Coll. He reputedly attracted generous support from prosperous Arab countries compared to other resistance leaders.[5] At that time, Haqqani helped and protected Osama bin Laden, who was building his own militia (al Qaida) to fight Soviet-backed Afghanistan.[6]
The influential U.S. Congressman, Charlie Wilson, who helped to direct tens of millions dollars to the Afghan resistance, was so enamored of Haqqani that he referred to him as "goodness personified".[7] He was a key US and Pakistani ally in resisting the Soviet-backed Afghanistan. Some news media outlets report that Haqqani even received an invitation to, and perhaps even visited, President Ronald Reagan's White House,[8][9][10] although photographs erroneously reported to show evidence of this meeting have cast doubt that Haqqani ever visited the US.[11][12] (The pictures originally purporting to show this meeting are, in fact, of Mohammad Yunus Khalis.)[13][14][15]
During the rule of Najibullah in 1991, Haqqani was the first resistance leader to capture the city of Khost from the Afghan government. After the fall of Kabul to the Mujahideen forces in 1992, he was appointed Justice Minister of the Islamic State of Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalaluddin_Haqqani


Though they deleted the word "sayanim" so surely would hold credibility for you.

I never said USA but US govt as they dance to the tune of AIPAC and shhould be changing the writing on the dollar "In AIPAC we believe"

as for being smart and all powerful is your claim and if i am not mistaken most claimants of such a claim had to bite the dust.

Lastly minus USA govt the world would be a peaceful place and their wont be no false flags be it for korean war or vietnam or the rest to come.
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Oh come on dude, you're not serious are you??? ....... What about the house of windsor?!!!! They'd still be starting wars all over the place!!!

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Speaking of the Eurofighters close-in combat prowess, Major Marc Gr�ne, CO of 742 (Zapata), the second squadron of the wing, described to assembled aviation journalists how, on a recent visit to France to demo the aircraft, he had won two out of two battles against the Dassault Rafale in mock within visual range dogfights. Both fights were a standard set-up and merge at 21,000ft and 30,000ft he recounted, adding that the higher the fight the better the Eurofighter liked it. He singled out the Eurofighters excess power as its trump card over the Rafale

House of windsor work mainly through bilderberg group and once they are gone the exigency or the catalyst of catastrophe would be gone.

Idiot spammer.

Pakistan created the Taliban so any cost Pakistan has paid is self inflicted.********

RE: Taliban was intially backed by Pak, Saudi , UAE and USA .... does the name uncall piple line deal ring a bell??..... no go and do some reading

idiot spammer.

speaking of self infliction Al Qeida was at one time armed and trained by CIA.... but please continue with your horse shiit...


You of course wont answer the question of how much the closure of supply route has cost Pakistan because doing so would show the complete stupidity of doing so. *********

RE: the cost isnt as much as the cost of not closing it....our economist have already done the numbers...the intability it creates is far more...

Pakistan sure whines allot about cost and asks for lots of money while at the same time claiming they don't want the money.
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RE: correction only the US installed government via the NRO wants it.

Pakistan is a failed state its not advisable for any new government to cut off economic lifeline to other factions. Especially when those other faction have guns and have shown in the past there willingness to use them.
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RE: foolish statement that deserves no response

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Pakistan Airforce: The largest distributor of Indian airforce parts in Asia



Pathankot Strike
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabres as tied escorts overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAFs Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which were seen again during the War.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHlzP69n9c

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Mean while Pakistan's government if off to Chicago to suck nato cock and reopen the supply route.

It is our corrupt govt that is upto things and not the nation. The corrupt judiciary and the chief justice of Pakistan are sold out people who are totally biased.
NATO supplies would be opened and that would create a lot of problem in the country not from govt or judiciary but from people of Pakistan in my understanding.

Though they deleted the word "sayanim" so surely would hold credibility for you.

Well, Undone, I always say there's nothing more credible than a Wiki entry allegedly based upon a book (I've never heard of written by an author I've never heard of, either. You certainly have me there. There couldn't be anything more credible.

I never said USA but US govt as they dance to the tune of AIPAC and shhould be changing the writing on the dollar "In AIPAC we believe"

Yeah, those pesky Juice are the REAL problem. You know if Israel was destroyed and the rest of those pesky Jews were eliminated, Pakistan would have no problems at all. I must say, Undone, you are to be commended for your enlightened views.

as for being smart and all powerful is your claim and if i am not mistaken most claimants of such a claim had to bite the dust.

No, Undone, you said it was the cause of all the world's problems, well actually you claimed there would be peace on earth and good will toward men, if the US wasn't around. I inferred from that that the US was both smart and pretty powerful to be, as you asserted, the source of all problems in the world. I think that's a reasonable inference based upon your comments. Where did I go wrong?

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"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little. It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny. Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation." John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.