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Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

July 16 2012 at 9:46 PM
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Eagle Squadron (US)

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BEIRUT, Lebanon Chief of Staff of Irans Armed Forces Major General Hassan Firouzabali said that military plans have been drawn up to close the Strait of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf, but added Iranian forces wont shut it down until they receive the go-ahead from Iran Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Hosseini Khamenei.

In addition to drawing up plans for the straits closure and awaiting permission from Irans supreme leader, the Iranian Parliament, or Majlis, still needs to give final approval.

Earlier this month, the National Security and Foreign Policy Commission of the Iranian Parliament drafted a bill requiring the government to stop all oil tankers shipping to those countries that support sanctions imposed by the United States and the European Union against Irans oil sales.

Senior lawmaker Javad Karimi Qoddousi outlined some of the draft laws provisions: Based on the draft bill, the closure of the Strait of Hormuz will continue until the annulment of all the sanctions imposed against Iran, and the government will be allowed to open the strait only after meeting 14 conditions.

He said the legislation also includes imposing a three-percent tariff on ships carrying other cargos destined for oil-importing countries, such as the U.S. and E.U. countries that support sanctions against Iran.

The tariff, he said, will be one of the conditions for opening the waterway to those countries oil tankers, and payment must be wired to Irans Central Bank, on which the West also has imposed sanctions.

Another Iranian lawmaker, Mehdi Moussavinejad, said that the draft legislation will be submitted to the parliaments presiding board in late July to be put on the calendar for double-urgency consideration by all members of the Majilis.

This could mean that any final decision approved by the Majlis may not be forthcoming until late July, with Khamenei making a final decision by early August.

The Strait of Hormuz, situated between the Gulf of Oman and the Persian Gulf, is a narrow transit way for some 40 percent of the worlds oil production, including much of the crude oil pumped from the oil fields of Saudi Arabia.

In announcing military plans for the straits closure, Firouzabali dismissed claims made by Western countries that Iran cannot block the strait.

They allege that we are bluffing is a bid to appease themselves, Firouzabali said. The armed forces have their own plans for every subject, but the decision to close the Strait of Hormuz lies on the Commander-in-Chief, Ayatollah Khameinei, who also receives consultations from the Supreme National Security Council.

The U.S. Navy has assessed that Iran has the capability to block the strait, even temporarily, by sinking ships in the narrow transit channels, or by laying mines.

It also has a hard-to-detect rocket mine thats set off by a distinctive magnetic or acoustic signature of a ship. Once a ship, such as a U.S. aircraft carrier, is detected, Iranian sources say, it then launches a propelled, 600-pound warhead at it.

Another is a Russian MDM6, which lies on the seabed and fires a torpedo-like warhead when it senses a vessel. It, too, is difficult to detect and can launch against multiple targets.

Both of these types of undersea mines are launched by Irans Russian-built Kilo-class submarines, according to sources.

In addition, sources say, the Iranians intend to use swarm tactics of heavily armed hit-and-run speed boats, which can be equipped with torpedoes, such as the super-cavitating Russian Skhval, which can travel a reported 250 kilometers an hour. At present, there is no defense against it.

The Iranians also have their own version of the Skhval, called the Hoot.

Iran has ratcheted up its rhetoric on closure of the strait since even more stringent U.S. and E.U. sanctions went into effect July 1 against Iranian oil imports in response to failure to reach agreement on Irans nuclear program, despite numerous international meetings.

Meanwhile, Israel has threatened to bomb Irans nuclear sites if it doesnt halt its enrichment efforts, should sanctions and diplomatic discussions fail.

The West believes Irans nuclear program is a cover for developing nuclear weapons, while the Iranians insist that as a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and as a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency, it has a right to develop nuclear energy for peaceful purposes.

In addition, Iran said the West lacks any evidence that the Islamic republic is embarked on a nuclear weapons program.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/iran-prepares-to-shut-down-strait-of-hormuz/?cat_orig=world
And so that "certain people" don't bitch like a little girl about the source, here are more links.
http://www.infowars.com/iran-plan-to-close-strait-of-hormuz-finalized/
http://www.dailypaul.com/244847/iran-plan-to-close-strait-of-hormuz-finalized
http://hamsayeh.net/world/2013-top-iranian-commander-hormuz-strait-closure-plan-ready-for-action.html




Lets get this sh!t on already! But wait until the Stennis battle group arrives.[linked image]

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(Login TurkishDomination)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 16 2012, 10:03 PM 

What gives them the right to demand such a thing


No matter the era, whichever the society, people always gaze at the stars when young. Then they stretch out their hands and try to catch them. And then one day, they realize their arms are not long enough to catch the stars, and thats when they grow up.


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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 16 2012, 10:04 PM 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/242875/thread/1342467334/last-1342467334/Iran%27s+Supreme+Leader+decides+whether+to+close+Strait+of+Hormuz-+military+official

Nemo me impune lacesset,


[linked image]"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little.

It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.
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Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 16 2012, 10:43 PM 

Oops.

But that forum is sorta dead, non?

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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 16 2012, 10:46 PM 

It is a serious move to invade the sovereignty of the other Gulf countries and the international waterway. Iran is very cocky if they think this power play will work, but it will certainly start the war they want. Ayatoilets are looking for a fight to cover for their crapped out economy. I hope the Iranian people soon rise up and get the balls to remove these mullahs.

 
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 16 2012, 10:57 PM 

According to some, the mullah mullahs are just your average run of the mill dictators who
want to live and control people.

Being messianic crazy has nothing to do with it.

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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 16 2012, 11:21 PM 


 
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 16 2012, 11:22 PM 

funny-facepalms-051.jpg

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"Iranian is by Virtue, Not by Blood"

 
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 16 2012, 11:27 PM 

I do have a serious question. Hypothetically, the IRI decides to close the straits. How long could it keep them closed?

Nemo me impune lacesset,


[linked image]"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little.

It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 16 2012, 11:27 PM 

Sorry is this better?


 
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Niroo_Hawaii
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 17 2012, 1:14 AM 

Randy,

I'd be surprised if it would take the USN more than a few days to clear it up, maybe a week?

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E7
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July 17 2012, 1:17 AM 

Look at your sources though. WND, and Infowars.com... I think this is the 3rd time now that Alex Jones announced on his site/radio show that Iran was going to close the strait of hormuz, only to have nothing happen, and I believe all those times he had sourced WND, which turned out being wrong.. But who knows.. maybe this is the one...

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This message has been edited by E7 on Jul 17, 2012 1:18 AM


 
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WAFFer
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 17 2012, 4:08 AM 

""How long could it keep them closed?""


probably few days for Us and its allies to get everything ready
at most a week

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Aietus
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 17 2012, 8:01 AM 

"How long could it keep them closed?"

i could close the gulf for several months.

the depest point of the gulf is about 90 meters with an average debth of 50 meters.most super tankers follow a standard transit route which follows the greatest depth.if the iranians could sink several supertankers laden with steel and cement particularly at the mouth of the gulf it could stuff things up pretty badly, particularly if the iranians were smart enough to do the same in the suez canal.
another method could be to set up along the coast huge oil/petrol holding tanks which at a moment notice could empty into the gulf.
if iran were also succesful in striking the other gulf states terminals that would be asd good as closing down the gulf,

 
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WAFFer
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 17 2012, 8:31 AM 

at Aietuss

According to RT they are just planning to lay mines

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This message has been edited by Azeri440 on Jul 17, 2012 8:32 AM


 
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 17 2012, 8:18 PM 

//Look at your sources though. WND, and Infowars.com... I think this is the 3rd time now that Alex Jones announced on his site/radio show that Iran was going to close the strait of hormuz, only to have nothing happen, and I believe all those times he had sourced WND, which turned out being wrong.. But who knows.. maybe this is the one...//


Are you calling your "leader" (Alex) a liar?!?

This will not go well with him.


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E7
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July 17 2012, 8:36 PM 

Why would he be my "leader"? I rarely post his content here, and he's often wrong about a lot of stuff he reports on.. but who knows, he might be right this time.. even a broken clock is right twice a day.. wink.gif

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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 17 2012, 10:42 PM 

i could close the gulf for several months.

Months? Really?

the depest point of the gulf is about 90 meters with an average debth of 50 meters.

OK.

most super tankers follow a standard transit route which follows the greatest depth.

Seems logical.

if the iranians could sink several supertankers laden with steel and cement particularly at the mouth of the gulf it could stuff things up pretty badly, particularly if the iranians were smart enough to do the same in the suez canal.

Smart enough? That seems odd to say. They could sink ships in the strait, yes. I'm not sure how long it would take to move them from the channel, but it wouldn't close it long and most of the oil would go through pipelines. Oil with the exception of Iran's, yes.

As to the smart enough, I suppose Iran could also close the Suez. How many allies would it have after that? Who would speak out against the inevitable massive military retaliation against all of Iran's infrastructure? Might even encourage some of Iran's neighbors to destroy or occupy Iranian oil fields or other oil assets.

another method could be to set up along the coast huge oil/petrol holding tanks which at a moment notice could empty into the gulf.

I'm curious. How would that close the straits?

if iran were also succesful in striking the other gulf states terminals that would be asd good as closing down the gulf,

True but to attack neutral nations would remove any veneer of respectability to Iranian action and subject them to even more massive retaliation. Hardly a recipe for national survival, at least not with its current government. Why would the IRI want to commit suicide?

Nemo me impune lacesset,


[linked image]"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little.

It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.
[linked image]

 
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Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 17 2012, 11:33 PM 

''i could close the gulf for several months.''



Really..? Is the US navy sitting on its azz while the iranian navy choo-choo train is doing
their "thing..?"


Oh i remember... The US will be too scared of those iranian supersonic anti-ship missiles to move, huh?



//if iran were also succesful in striking the other gulf states terminals that would be asd good as closing down the gulf,//



And if i rubbed a persian azz and a genie popped out, i would wish for world peace. But that, just like iran striking gulf state
terminals, isn't gonna happen!




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Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 18 2012, 10:33 AM 

Whether they close the straights of Hormuz, or not, is irrelevant.. the mere mention of a gulf war, will send the price of oil skyrocketing.. Iran wins.. and the west loses..


 
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WAFFer
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 18 2012, 1:27 PM 



    
This message has been edited by politicalgain on Jul 18, 2012 1:28 PM


 
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 18 2012, 2:33 PM 

I'm curious, Vara, how does Iran win? Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Mexico, Brazil, Canada and even Russia win, yes. How does Iran "win" in your scenario?

Nemo me impune lacesset,


[linked image]"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little.

It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.
[linked image]

 
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Hizbullah Website Features Infographic On Closing The Strait Of Hormuz

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July 18 2012, 10:41 PM 



Hizbullah Website Features Infographic On Closing The Strait Of Hormuz, Illustrates Iranian Attack On U.S. Aircraft Carrier
[linked image]

The official Hizbullah website www.english.moqawama.org, along with the Iranian weekly Panjereh http://panjerehweekly.ir), published an infographic titled "Hormoz [sic] Straits A Choke Point In the Hand of the IRGC [Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps]."[1]

The infographic simulates an attack on a U.S. aircraft carrier in the Strait of Hormuz using IRGC missiles, including the Nasr (3 ton cruise missile with anti-ship capabilities), Zafar (short range radar guided missile fired from swift watercraft), Khalij-e Fars (solid fuel ballistic missile with a range of 300 km), Saeqhe (a missile with a range of 300 km), Tondar (a ballistic missile fired from land), Qader (a cruise missile with a range of 200 km, designed for aircraft and watercraft), Noor (A surface-to-sea or sea-to-sea missile with a range of 170 km), and Kowsar (a surface-to-sea, sea-to-sea, and air-to-sea medium range, radar and TV guided missile).

The data is available in the original by clicking on each missile.

In the intro to the infographic, the author, Hadi Mousavi (a Shi'ite, judging by the name), mentions the 1986 Iranian threat to close the Strait of Hormuz during the Iran-Iraq War, when Iran's IRGC forces were up against an Iraqi force supported by the U.S. It should be mentioned that Iran did not close the strait during the war.

The publication of the infographic by Tehran's proxy, Hizbullah, indicates that the former, which is currently facing harsh sanctions, is attempting to convey threats to the international community through all available channels. The infographic was also published in French and Arabic.


Endnotes:

[1]http://www.english.moqawama.org/ . It should be mentioned that there is a typo in the name of the weekly Panjereh, and that the updated infographic does not appear on their website yet. Members of the military, government, and media may request a copy of the full link, send an email with the title of the report in the subject line to [email protected] Please include your name, title, and organization in your email.

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/6526.htm

Nemo me impune lacesset,


[linked image]"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little.

It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.
[linked image]

 
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Vara
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Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 18 2012, 10:44 PM 

Well Provost, if you're referring to the oil embargo against Iran, by the EU and the USA, i see your point.. IMO, it only makes the oil export situation in Iran mildly problematic and NOT a catastrophe.. the Mullah state, will still sell their oil to China, and other markets outta the sphere of Washington influence.. to be eventually exported back to the EU and the USA through back doors and middle men..

...thus, by "officially removing" Iranian oil from the market, it only increases the price and decreases the "official" supply.. that has a knock on effect all of its own.. and since the Oil companies.. get to have an excuse to raise prices, by manipulating "official" figures, i guess we can call them big winners along with Iran also.. 

But, while a mild irritation for Iran, it still doesn't change the fact that oil prices will increase.. and Iran's "enemies" will bare the financial brunt of this embargo.. Yes, I'd say its an Iranian victory.. 

 

 




 
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 18 2012, 10:50 PM 

Interesting point, Vara. I thought the vast majority of the IRI's oil exports also went through the Strait. Limiting their ability to sell their oil. Of course, the price will increase but if you cut off the IRI's income stream, I'd think conditions their would quickly worsen. You may consider that an Iranian "Victory" but I'm not at all sure it is.

Nemo me impune lacesset,


[linked image]"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little.

It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.
[linked image]

 
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 18 2012, 10:59 PM 

U.S. can defeat any Iranian effort to block oil shipping: Panetta


U.S. can defeat any Iranian effort to block oil shipping: Panetta
10:41am EDT

U.S. can defeat any Iranian effort to block oil shipping: Panetta (00:45)

By David Alexander

WASHINGTON | Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:55pm EDT

(Reuters) - The United States has the military capacity to defeat any Iranian attempt to shut down sea commerce in the oil-rich Gulf region and will hold Tehran directly responsible for shipping disruptions, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said on Wednesday.

"The United States is fully prepared for all contingencies here," Panetta told a Pentagon news conference. "We've invested in capabilities to ensure that the Iranian attempt to close down shipping in the Gulf is something that we are going to be able to defeat, if they make a decision to do that."

Panetta's comments came amid rising tensions in the region over Iran's nuclear program and its threats to close the vital Strait of Hormuz unless the international community revokes sanctions imposed on Iranian oil shipments.

A security team aboard a U.S. Navy oiler opened fire with a .50 caliber machine gun on a small boat off the United Arab Emirates this week after it failed to heed warnings to alter its course. An Indian fisherman was killed and three others were wounded in the incident, which is under investigation.

Concerns about the security situation in the region have prompted the Pentagon to bolster its military presence, announcing this week, for example, that it would move the USS Stennis aircraft carrier strike group to the Gulf four months earlier than planned in order to maintain current force levels.

The Stennis will replace another carrier that is being withdrawn, which would have left one strike group in the region to counter Iran and support U.S. combat air operations in Afghanistan.

The U.S. military announced on Tuesday more than 20 countries would participate in anti-mine exercises in the region in September. The exercises will not take place in the Strait and the Pentagon denied it was sending a message to Iran.

The USS Ponce, a forward staging base ship, arrived in the Gulf earlier this month to help support mine countermeasure operations and other maritime security efforts in the region, the military said.

British Defense Secretary Philip Hammond, appearing at the Pentagon news conference with Panetta, said London was committed to helping ensure Gulf sea lanes remained open.

"I can reaffirm our commitment to play our part in maintaining freedom of navigation in the international waters of the Gulf and the Straits of Hormuz," Hammond said. "Any attempt by Iran to close the Straits would be illegal and the international community will not allow it to happen."

Panetta said Washington was prepared to respond to any move against sea commerce by Tehran.

"The Iranians need to understand that the United States and the international community are going to hold them directly responsible for any disruption of shipping in that region, by Iran or for that matter by its surrogates," he said.

(Reporting by Phil; Stewart and David Alexander; Editing by Paul Simao)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/18/us-usa-iran-defense-idUSBRE86H10U20120718

Nemo me impune lacesset,


[linked image]"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little.

It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.
[linked image]

 
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 18 2012, 11:04 PM 



Iranian Regime Prepares For Oil Embargo

By: A. Savyon and Y. Mansharof*

Introduction

On July 1, 2012, the oil sanctions imposed on Iran by the E.U. in December 2011 came into effect. During the months leading up to July 2012 and during the nuclear talks, spokesmen of the Iranian regime made numerous warnings, threats, and even pleas in an attempt to persuade the E.U. to cancel the sanctions, while at the same time stating that the regime was already making preparations to deal with them.[1] Apparently, the Iranian regime did not believe that the West would impose the sanctions, and now it is hurriedly attempting to prepare for them while also trying to exert pressure on the West.

It should be mentioned that another tactic typically used by Iran in times of crisis is waging terror indirectly, as a means of pressuring the West. Since Iran is currently limited in its reaction ability, it has a greater need to create provocations and trigger terrorism in the region, in order to exact a steep price from the 5+1 for the sanctions, and at the same time divert attention away from the nuclear issue.[2]

This report reviews the various measures taken by the Iranian regime in reaction to the sanctions: its efforts to prepare the public to endure them; its threats of violence against Western interests in the Gulf and Western targets around the world, as well as against Saudi Arabia and Israel; its threats to close the Hormuz strait; its attempts to find alternative routes for exporting its oil; and its calls to exhaust the diplomatic effort.

Iranian Preparations At Home: Urging The Public To Demonstrate Fortitude; The Oil Embargo Is An ''Opportunity"

Though the heads of the Iranian regime proclaim that the sanctions have no significant effect on the economy, and that they are even an opportunity to improve Iran's economic self-sufficiency,[3] some recent statements indicate that Iran's economic situation is, in fact, steadily deteriorating. In an extraordinary session of the Expediency Council on July 7, attended by Ahmadinejad, by the director of Iran's central bank, and by the ministers of oil, commerce, and economy, Expediency Council Chairman Mohsen Rezai said that government reports clearly revealed that Iran is facing an "economic war."[4] Commerce Minister Mehdi Ghazanfari said at a conference in Qom that the oil sanctions are "paralyzing" and different from the sanctions to which Iran has grown accustomed since the advent of the Islamic regime. He warned that Iran is currently involved in "a serious and dangerous confrontation requiring clever planning," and that the sanctions could increase even further, to include "logistic sanction." He explained that the West did not want to confront Iran directly, so it decided "to harm the regime using extreme economic sanctions and to sow distrust among the people towards the regime and its officials."[5]

After Iran's Broadcasting Authority published the results of two recent polls which revealed that some 60% of respondents favored halting uranium enrichment in return for a gradual easing of the sanctions, and 89% expressed opposition to Iran's closing the Hormuz Strait[6] there were increasing calls by Iranian officials to launch a campaign for increasing public fortitude and support for the regime. For example, Yadollah Javani, an advisor to Khamenei's representative in Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), called on the government to do its utmost to prevent a "bad" reaction among the public to the rise in the cost of living.[7] At a meeting of the Experts Assembly, the assembly's deputy chairman, Ayatollah Mohammad Yazdi, said that the oil embargo would not cause the regime to withdraw from its position on the nuclear program, and that for this reason, the impact of the sanctions on the cost of living and on the people was an important issue. He called on the regime to launch propaganda campaigns among the people in order to persuade them of the benefit of enduring the sanctions with fortitude.[8] The student Basij, on the other hand, protested the cost of living and demanded that the authorities address the economic problems, and thus demonstrate that they are aware of the people's distress.[9]

[linked image]
The survey removed from the Broadcasting Authority website. Most respondents are in favor of ceasing enrichment.[10]

[linked image]
The survey removed from the Broadcasting Authority website. Most respondents oppose closing the Strait of Hormuz.[11]

On July 16, 2012, Experts Assembly member Alam Al-Hoda even hinted at more active measures to be taken by the regime vis-ą-vis the public. He said that the Basij is now charged with the important task of "restraining" the public, considering its potential reaction to the oil sanctions, and preserving its sense of identification with the regime.[12] According to reports, the regime has banned any further discussion in the media regarding the impact of the sanctions on society.[13]

Conditional Threats To Hit Western And Gulf Interests

1. The commander of the IRGC air force, Ali Hajizade, said that Iran would strike 35 American bases in the region and in Israel using its missiles, calling them "quality targets" that would be destroyed "in the first minutes" following an attack on Iran.[14] He added that "on the day of truth, IRGC missiles will strike our enemies like bolts of lightning."[15]

[linked image]
Shihab-3 Missile.[16]

2. Acting commander of the IRGC Ground Force Operations Division Morteza Mirian said that Tehran can reach its enemies thousands of miles beyond its borders. He added that all enemy bases were covered by Iranian missiles, and that the enemy was especially vulnerable in the Persian Gulf. He also said that, unlike the enemy, Iran's fighters do not fear death, but rather see martyrdom for the sake of Allah as the pinnacle of glory. He stressed the importance of the Basij fighters "Iran's atom bomb" in Iran's plans, and added that "Iran's security lines in Lebanon [probably in reference to Hizbullah] create increasing danger for the enemy."[17]

3. On the eve of the sanctions coming into effect, IRGC Deputy Commander Hossein Salami said: "In our strategic plan, we defined a radius of deterrence including all the strategic interests in the region, so that, during a conflict or war, we can manage them on every level... The IRGC has the ability to attack stationary and mobile targets. [It also has] steep trajectory ballistic missiles that enter the atmosphere at several times the speed of sound, and can rarely be intercepted or destroyed... The IRGC navy's missiles have advanced capabilities in terms of range, accuracy, radar evasion and velocity, and they can be fired from various launchers... We have reached [a level of] achievement that I doubt even missile pioneers like the U.S. and Russia [can match]... I firmly insist that we can hit all moving targets with 100% [accuracy]."[18]

[linked image]
Iranian Karrar attack drone.[19]

4. IRGC Navy Commander Ali Fadavi said that Iranian intelligence is closely monitoring the American forces in the Persian Gulf, and has hundreds of craft there during all hours of the day. He added that "today, the situation is such that we choose the field and determine the rules of play."[20] Fadavi said further that the smaller boats, which are faster and more maneuverable, have missiles with a range of over 220 km, and will hopefully soon be equipped with 300 km missiles.[21]

5. Deputy Chief of Staff Masoud Jazayeri said: "If the security of Iran or its allies is threatened, Iran will undoubtedly respond appropriately and resolutely. We have added a tier to our military doctrine, according to which we will not merely defend ourselves in case of a threat. If attacked, we will respond with an attack. We have prepared [to launch] large-scale and multilayered attacks, if necessary."[22] Two weeks later, Jazayeri ridiculed statements by U.S. officials regarding the deployment of 200 missiles to prevent Iran from closing the Strait of Hormuz. According to him, the U.S. will not be able to use missiles to impose its will on a country as large as Iran, "which completely controls the strait." Jazayeri stated that "without a shadow of a doubt, Iran will confront the U.S. if it harms its interests."[23]

6. An article in the IRGC weekly Sobh-e Sadeq that discussed the Iranian response to the oil embargo claimed that Iran "will not simply abandon its national interest, [but] will take any necessary action to secure it." The article reviewed the courses of action available to Tehran: blowing up the nuclear talks; continuing the talks while introducing further difficulties and complications; closing the Strait of Hormuz, or at the very least restricting oil tanker passage; and "adding to the regional problems of the U.S. and the West." He promised that Iran would choose the option that best serves its interests.[24]

7. An Iranian website close to the IRGC claimed that the Iranian Hout missile is one of the world's fastest radar-evading naval missiles, and is three times faster than its American counterparts. The website explained that "launching two such missiles at random American warships in the Persian Gulf would inflict a deadly blow, leaving them no escape." The website claimed that only Iran and Russia possess the technology to manufacture such a missile, but that the Iranian model exceeds its Russian counterpart, havng been upgraded by the IRGC, and can be launched from ships or submarines from a depth of up to 100 meters.[25]

8. Press TV reported that during the Great Prophet 7 military drill, the IRGC successfully employed unmanned aerial bombers against mock bases of trans-regional forces in Iran's Lut Desert.[26]

[linked image]
Hout missile.[27]

Conditional Threats To Destroy Israel

Senior military commander Mostafa Izadi said that an attack on Iran would lead to the destruction of Israel: "If the Zionist regime tries to take any action against us, this will spell the end of its existence. There is no doubt that they are unable to harm Iran and its regime in any way... The existence of numerous [Iranian] islands in the Persian Gulf has provided us with great capabilities, making the Islamic Republic the [superior] defense power in the region."[28]

9. The commander of the IRGC air force, Amir Ali Hajizadeh, also claimed that "if the Zionist regime makes a wrong move, it will give us an excuse to wipe it off the [face of the] planet."[29]

Threats To Target Saudi Arabia

10. Experts Assembly member and former intelligence minister Ali Fallahian called on the regime to "punish Saudi Arabia" for its crimes in Bahrain, Syria, and Yemen; for increasing oil production, which lowers the price of oil in violation of OPEC agreements; and for executing Iranian citizens. According to him, punishment by Iran would encourage the Shi'ites in eastern Saudi Arabia and in Bahrain to rise up against the regimes in these countries.[30]

11. Majlis member Nasser Sodani called on the regime to demand that OPEC impose penalties in order to prevent Saudi Arabia from continuing to fund the oil embargo on Iran.[31]

Iran Continues Threats To Close Strait Of Hormuz, While Acknowledging That This Violates International Law, Harms Its Allies (Iraq, China)

Iranian officials have made contradictory statements on closing the Strait of Hormuz. On the one hand, they continue threatening to close the strait, and, in light of the expansion of U.S. presence in the Gulf (aircraft carriers and minesweepers), they have even increased these threats. At the same time, their statements indicate that Tehran is aware that closing the strait would be a de facto declaration of war on the world, and legal cause for international steps against it; it also realizes that it would harm its allies, China and Iraq. Therefore, it can be suggested that Iran's goal in uttering these threats is mainly to raise the price of oil, which is at a relative low.

[linked image]
The Strait of Hormuz.[32]

At a Basij conference on June 19, 2012, Hossein Salami implied that Iran would close the Strait of Hormuz and said: "The whole world knows that 60% of the world's energy [resources] are in our hands, and that the peaceful functioning of the global economy is subject to Iran's will. This is our ability and our might, since we control the world's economy, and the entire world knows it."[33]

In late June 2012, the commander of the Iranian army's ground forces, Ahmad Reza Pourdastan, was asked: "Will Iran use its [advantageous] position in the Strait of Hormuz if the West increases the sanctions against it, especially regarding oil?" Pourdastan replied that "new sanctions being leveled by the arrogance [i.e., the U.S. and the West] will not influence our moves, but if conditions arise in which the Iranian nation feels threatened, it will use all [its] means of pressure, including in the Strait of Hormuz."[34]

When the sanctions came into effect, the editor of Kayhan, Hossein Shariatmadari, repeated his call to close the Strait of Hormuz, and added that the regime should boycott European companies in response to the oil embargo.[35] The head of the Majlis economic committee, Arsalan Fathipour, told Al-'Alam TV that "if a complete embargo is imposed on Iran, it will not let a single drop of oil pass through the Strait of Hormuz."[36]

Yadollah Javani, an advisor to Supreme Leader Khamenei's representative in the IRGC, said that it is natural for Iran to utilize all means at its disposal to combat the oil embargo, one of which is the closure of the Strait of Hormuz.[37] In an interview with Iranian radio, Majlis National Security Committee member Esmail Kothari threatened that Iran would close the Strait of Hormuz if unable to export oil.[38]

With the implementation of the oil embargo, an initiative was proposed in the Majlis calling on the regime to respond by closing the strait.[39] However, many said that closing the strait was not feasible and/or not to Iran's advantage. National Security Committee member Naqavi Hosseini said that, even though Tehran could easily close the strait, a decision on this matter requires comprehensive review.[40] In an interview with the newspaper Etemaad, he added that a decision to this effect exceeds the authority of the Majlis, and should be taken by the regime leaders.[41]

Majlis member Esmail Jalili implied that the Majlis initiative is only meant to raise the price of oil in response to the oil embargo on Iran. According to him, the initiative is positive because it is a "soft" Iranian response to the psychological warfare against it, which "raises the price that the enemy must pay for leveling sanctions against Iran."[42]

Majlis member Heshmatollah Falahatpisheh, who is known for his militant statements, claimed that the Majlis initiative to close the Strait of Hormuz is dangerous and impulsive, since the closure would give Iran's enemies an excuse to launch a military campaign against it, backed by UN regulations; pave the path to more sanctions; and strengthen Israel's claim that Iran must be attacked.[43]

Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi tried to downplay Iran's threat to close the strait, by describing the possibility as merely hypothetical. He said some had considered this possibility in case Iran was denied access to the Persian Gulf, but that he did not think such a situation would ever occur.[44]

Iranian Chief of Staff Hassan Firouzabadi said that the Majlis initiative reflects the will of the people,[45] but that Iran would not close the strait unless it perceived its interests to be in danger.[46] On July 15, Firouzabadi said: "We have no intention of closing the Strait of Hormuz at this time, but we have prepared plans for it."[47]

Majlis presidential committee member Alireza Mandi Safidan also expressed reservations regarding the move and said that Iran would not hasten to close the strait: "Closing the Strait of Hormuz would be Iran's last step in response to the oil sanctions... If certain countries sell oil unjustly with the support of the world's arrogant superpowers, Iran has levers other than closing the Strait of Hormuz to cause the West to regret [it], and it will undoubtedly use them."[48]

The Tabnak website, which is close to Expediency Council Chairman Mohsen Rezai, estimated that the Majlis initiative would not bring about a closure of the Strait of Hormuz since "officially, Iran is not at war."[49]

Finding Alternatives Routes For Exporting Oil

With the implementation of the oil embargo, the regime began taking measures to bypass it, such as establishing private consortiums to sell its oil, finding alternative clients, and selling the oil through other countries.[50]

Selling Oil Through A Private Consortium

In early July, the head of the Iranian Oil Exporters Union, Hassan Khosrojerdi, announced the establishment of three private oil exporting consortiums to assist the regime in bypassing the sanctions and selling oil to the West.[51] Iranian TV reported that 30% of Iranian oil exports would be sold by the private sector.[52]

[linked image]
Iranian oil tanker.[53]

Selling Oil Through Other Countries

Majlis Energy Committee Deputy Chairman Ali Marvi told the Mehr news agency that Iran plans to bypass the sanctions by shipping its oil under foreign flags. According to Marvi, several countries have agreed to rent their ships to Iran.[54]

Finding Alternative Clients

Regime officials and mouthpieces claimed that Iran would find new clients to replace their Western clients. Oil Minister Rostam Qasemi said that Iran was preparing to sign new contracts with clients other than the EU.[55] Majlis member Abed Fattahi said that Iran would not succumb to the sanctions since it enjoys "a totally stable economy," as well as effective diplomacy that enables it to find new clients to replace the West.[56] Mohsen Qamsari, an official at the National Iranian Oil Company, said that Iran has signed a contract with Kenya to export 80,000 barrels a day to this country. However, on July 4, 2012, Kenya announced it had cancelled the deal following U.S. threats to level sanctions against it.[57] Qamsari added that Iran is in contact with other African countries and will soon sign agreements with Zimbabwe and Tajikistan.[58] Columnist Hassan Hanizadeh, who is close to regime circles, claimed that the oil embargo would be difficult for Iran, but would not stand in its way. He explained that Iran has detailed plans to find alternative clients, especially in East Asia, and predicted that the sanctions would harm Europe more than Iran since most of Europe's refineries can only process Iranian oil.[59]

In an interview with the ILNA news agency on July 4, 2021, former oil minister Kazem Vaziri Hamaneh estimated that it would not be difficult for Iran to find alternative clients, and explained that selling oil can also be done "by mediators." He said that the use of mediators might raise the sale costs and decrease Iran's profit margins, but that "the decrease [in revenue] is not a high price to pay for our resolute stand against bullying and pressure."[60]

*A. Savyon is Director of the Iranian Media Project; Y. Mansharof is a Research Fellow at MEMRI.


Endnotes:

[1] Foreign Ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast said that "in the long run, the E.U. countries will regret [the sanctions] because they will run into oil supply problems," and added that the oil embargo was an attempt by the U.S. to compete with its European rivals on the pretext of harming Iran. Yjc.ir, July 8, 2012. Esmail Kothari, a member of the Majlis National Security Committee, said that Europe would find it difficult to endure the embargo while in the throes of the worst financial crisis since the end of the Second World War, and that it was dependent on Iranian oil. Qods (Iran), July 1, 2012.

[2] See MEMRI reports Inquiry & Analysis Series No. 838, "Ahead of the Baghdad Nuclear Talks Between Iran And The 5+1 An Assessment," May 21, 2012,http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/6392.htm; MEMRI Inquiry & Analysis Series No. 852, "Tehran's Response To The Intensification Of Sanctions: A Determined Stance On The Nuclear Issue, Controlled Threat In 'Great Prophet 7' Missile Exercise, Threats Of Terrorism," July 3, 2012,http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/6492.htm.

[3] Though experts assess that oil exports provide some 80% of Iran's export revenues, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad claimed recently that it accounts for less than 10% of the revenues, and called to eliminate even this dependency and thereby neutralize the weapon of the oil embargo. Fars (Iran), July 3, 2012. Basij Commander Mohammed Reza Naqdi said that the oil embargo would enable Iran to build an economy not dependent on oil: "All the economic experts say the solution is an economy not based on oil, so we should take advantage of the great opportunity provided by the embargo in order to implement this and march [our] economy forward." Fars (Iran), July 11, 2012. Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei said that the sanctions would not stand in Tehran's way. Asr-e Iran (Iran), July 11, 2012.

[4] IRIB (Iran), July 7, 2012.

[5] Hawzahnews.com (Iran), July 15, 2012.

[6] Digarban.com, July 3, 2012. The Broadcasting Authority was later compelled to remove the poll results from its website.

[7] Yjc.ir, July 11, 2012.

[8] Khabaronline.com, July 11, 2012.

[9] Fardanews.com (Iran), July 7, 2012.

[10] www.digraban.com, July 3, 2012.

[11] www.digraban.com, July 4, 2012.

[12] Snn.ir, July 15, 2012.

[13] Reuters, July 11, 2012. Abdallah Nouri, a prominent member of the reformist movement, said it was wrong to sacrifice all of Iran's interests to the nuclear program, and warned of serious damage to the Iranian economy, owing to its dependence on oil revenues. He called on the Iranian public to join hands in rescuing the country and saving it from crisis. Roozonline.com, July 11, 2012.

[14] Javan (Iran), July 4, 2012.

[15] Ilna.ir, July 4, 2012.

[16] www.jamnews.ir, July 3, 2012.

[17] Fars (Iran), June 30, 2012.

[18] Fars, Irib.ir, Press TV (Iran), June 24, 2012; lenziran.com, June 24, 2012.

[19] Press TV (Iran), July 3, 2012.

[20] Sepahnews.ir, June 29, 2012.

[21] Press TV (Iran), June 29, 2012.

[22] Yjc.ir, June 27, 2012.

[23] Kayhan (Iran), July 11, 2012

[24] Sobh-e Sadegh (Iran), July 2, 2012.

[25] Yjc.ir, July 11, 2012. For more on Iranian threats of missile strikes against U.S. watercraft, seehttp://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/6526.htm.

[26] Press TV (Iran), July 3, 2012.

[27] www.yjc.ir, July 11, 2012.

[28] Press TV (Iran), June 23, 2012.

[29] Press TV (Iran), July 1, 2012.

[30] He said further that, with King 'Abdallah on his death bed, Saudi Arabia is currently weak and there are disputes among his heirs. It should be noted that Fallahian is wanted by INTERPOL for his suspected involvement in the bombing of the Jewish community building in Buenos Aires, Argentina in 1994. Mehr (Iran), July 7, 2012.

[31] Press TV (Iran), June 29, 2012.

[32] www.yjc.ir, July 15, 2012.

[33] Iribnews.ir, June 19, 2012.

[34] ISNA (Iran), June 25, 2012.

[35] Kayhan (Iran), July 2, 2012.

[36] Al-'Alam TV (Iran), July 1, 2012.

[37] Yjc.ir, July 11, 2012.

[38] Radiogoftogoo.ir, July 7, 2012.

[39] Bultannews.com, July 1, 2012.

[40] Asr-e Iran (Iran), July 3, 2012.

[41] Etemaad (Iran), July 4, 2012.

[42] Mehr (Iran), July 4, 2012.

[43] Khabaronline.ir, July 6, 2012.

[44] Khabaronline.ir, July 6, 2012.

[45] Foreign Ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast made a similar remark. ISNA (Iran), July 3, 2012.

[46] ISNA (Iran), July 7, 2012.

[47] IRNA (Iran), July 15, 2012.

[48] Icana.ir, June 23, 2012.

[49] Tabnak (Iran), July 3, 2012.

[50] Majlis member Abdul Reza Mesri also called to impose a tax on ships passing through the Strait of Hormuz, claiming it was Iran's legal right to do so. Yjc.ir, July 9, 2012. Kayhan reported on July 11 that more than 60 Majlis members agreed to the taxation plan.

[51] Fars (Iran), July 9, 2012.

[52] Lenziran.com, July 9, 2012.

[53] Press TV (Iran), January 28, 2011.

[54] Mehr (Iran), 9 july 2012.

[55] Javan (Iran), July 2, 2012.

[56] Press TV (Iran), July 5, 2012.

[57] Washingtontimes.com, July 4, 2012.

[58] Mehr (Iran), July 4, 2012.

[59] Yjc.ir, July 2, 2012.

[60] ILNA (Iran), July 4, 2012.

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/6527.htm

Nemo me impune lacesset,


[linked image]"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little.

It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.
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Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 19 2012, 11:22 AM 

Here's a break down of Iranian exports for 2011-2012.. I realise it's a wiki source.. but then again, we're WAFF and not a think tank...lol

"As of January 2012, Iran exports 22% of its oil to China, 14% to Japan, 13% to India, 10% to South Korea, 7% to Italy, 7% to Turkey, 6% to Spain and the remainder to France, Greece (& other European countries), Taiwan, Sri Lanka, South Africa."
Source..span class="link">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_industry_in_Iran

From looking at the numbers.. Iran's exposure to western markets is limited.. China makes up the lion share of its exports, and as the embargo bites.. I'm sure they'll take up more of the slack.. Not sure exactly how much of his oil is loaded aboard tankers in the Persian Gulf, if the oil was to leave aboard Chinese or Indian registed tankers would they be stopped Provost?

PS.. It seems that my homeland just can't take a break.. Greece imports 30% of its oil from Iran.. Probably at mates rates too.. But since we can't afford the bills these days, I'm sure the Mullahs have already factored this in also..


 
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WAFFer.

Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 19 2012, 9:36 PM 

Iran doubts U.S. abilities in Persian Gulf
(0) |
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Published: July 19, 2012 at 10:52 AM

TEHRAN, July 19 (UPI) -- The U.S. military can't do much in the area of demining activity in the Persian Gulf as it works to protect the Strait of Hormuz, an Iranian commander said.

U.S. officials said the Navy sent the SeaFox submersible to the region to search for and destroy mines in the Persian Gulf, the Los Angeles Times reported. U.S. Marines Gen. James Mattis, the top U.S. military commander in the Middle East, issued an urgent order for the submersible in May.

The Times reports authorities in the United States are worried Iran may respond to sanctions by targeting oil installations in the Persian Gulf.

Iranian Rear Adm. Mahmoud Fahimi, deputy commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, said U.S. efforts at demining were fruitless.

"Americans talk a lot about different things but in practice they are faced with problems," he was quoted by Iran's state-funded broadcaster Press TV as saying. "We have no doubt that the United States can't do anything in the minesweeping sphere."

U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said the Iranians need to understand the consequences of disrupting regional shipping lanes.

"The United States is fully prepared for all contingencies here," he said in a statement.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2012/07/19/Iran-doubts-US-abilities-in-Persian-Gulf/UPI-23591342709570/

Nemo me impune lacesset,


[linked image]"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little.

It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.
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WAFFer.

Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 19 2012, 9:45 PM 

From looking at the numbers.. Iran's exposure to western markets is limited.. China makes up the lion share of its exports, and as the embargo bites.. I'm sure they'll take up more of the slack.. Not sure exactly how much of his oil is loaded aboard tankers in the Persian Gulf, if the oil was to leave aboard Chinese or Indian registed tankers would they be stopped Provost?

What? Would they be stopped? Your theory was that the IRI sunk ships to block the strait how, exactly, are these Indian and Chinese tankers going to get out?

Nemo me impune lacesset,


[linked image]"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little.

It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.
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Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 20 2012, 1:01 AM 

"What? Would they be stopped? Your theory was that the IRI sunk ships to block the strait how, exactly, are these Indian and Chinese tankers going to get out?"

...actually it was Aietus, that said that.. i guess we Greeks all look the same to you Provost.. happy.gif

Either/or.. its a long way away, sinking ships, to physically block the passage outta the Persian Gulf  V's "hindering" oil laden ships.. especially since its the USA and the british arse lickers seem so adamant on keeping the traffic moving.. WITH the exclusion of Iranian oil of course.. which leeds me to my next point, and what i was trying to convey in the first place.. Iran wont do anything since it would have a negative effect on its own economy by blocking traffic as you pointed out Provost, its just reacting to the threats of the USA.. so the USA will turn back anyships carrying Iranian oil..ie, enforcing a selective embargo on all traffic in and outta the gulf, my point is.. will the USA stop Chinese, Russian or Indian ships from carrying this oil? risking a confrontation over Iran.. 60% of Iranian oil and gas goes to Asia.. where are they going to make up the short fall? Oil and gas aren't renewable resources.. there is only a limited supply.. so in the event of the USA embargoing the Persian Gulf, why wouldn't it make sense for the Iranians to shut down the gulf.. (assuming they can..).. 

...and lets assume that the EU/USA embargo is effective in stopping Iranian oil and the Chinese, Russian and Indians suffer also..wont it have a detrimental effect on the west also?

...the Iranian economy is pretty basic compared to the USA..consumerism is pretty low.. so it would easier to wait out any embargo.. and build pipelines and other terminals that circumvent the Persian Gulf than to do an about face and surrender its nuclear program..   


 





    
This message has been edited by varangian on Jul 20, 2012 1:12 AM


 
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(Login MPOne)
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Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 20 2012, 6:00 PM 

...actually it was Aietus, that said that.. i guess we Greeks all look the same to you Provost..happy.gif

Well, I have to be honest, I don't normally even notice either Greek or Turkish posters as individuals, but only as segments of their respective insanities. My apologies for mistaking you.

Either/or.. its a long way away, sinking ships, to physically block the passage outta the Persian Gulf V's "hindering" oil laden ships.. especially since its the USA and the british arse lickers seem so adamant on keeping the traffic moving.. WITH the exclusion of Iranian oil of course.. which leeds me to my next point, and what i was trying to convey in the first place.. Iran wont do anything since it would have a negative effect on its own economy by blocking traffic as you pointed out Provost, its just reacting to the threats of the USA.. so the USA will turn back anyships carrying Iranian oil..ie, enforcing a selective embargo on all traffic in and outta the gulf, my point is.. will the USA stop Chinese, Russian or Indian ships from carrying this oil? risking a confrontation over Iran.. 60% of Iranian oil and gas goes to Asia.. where are they going to make up the short fall? Oil and gas aren't renewable resources.. there is only a limited supply.. so in the event of the USA embargoing the Persian Gulf, why wouldn't it make sense for the Iranians to shut down the gulf.. (assuming they can..)..

A good point. If the US declares a blockade on Iran or even an embargo, it could, and in my mind, probably would stop foreign flag vessels carrying Iranian contraband. The difference is the US wouldn't be embargoing "the Persian Gulf" it would be embargoing Iran. For example, a Chinese tanker with oil from Dubai would have no issue. Only those with Iranian oil would.

...and lets assume that the EU/USA embargo is effective in stopping Iranian oil and the Chinese, Russian and Indians suffer also..wont it have a detrimental effect on the west also?

Detrimental? Sure.

...the Iranian economy is pretty basic compared to the USA..consumerism is pretty low.. so it would easier to wait out any embargo.. and build pipelines and other terminals that circumvent the Persian Gulf than to do an about face and surrender its nuclear program..

Here's where I think you're wrong. The IRI is hardly stable enough politically to long survive a real embargo. I remember the people in the streets that had to be suppressed. When they are hungry, as well, as upset over the stolen elections they might well decide they've had enough of their current leadership and the problems it brings them.

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It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

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Vara
(Login varangian)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Iran Prepares To Shut Down Strait Of Hormuz

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July 21 2012, 1:09 AM 

"If the US declares a blockade on Iran or even an embargo, it could, and in my mind, probably would stop foreign flag vessels carrying Iranian contraband. The difference is the US wouldn't be embargoing "the Persian Gulf" it would be embargoing Iran. For example, a Chinese tanker with oil from Dubai would have no issue. Only those with Iranian oil would."

...I'm sure that the USN would be checking ALL vessels and manifests, coming and going from the Persian Gulf.. regardless of their cargo's and the nationality of the ships and crews.. and even though they'd target ONLY the vessels "breaking" the Iranian embargo.. still, the Persian Gulf, would resemble a customs clearing house where the onus would be on the vessel's and NOT the USN to prove that the Iranian embargo is NOT being violated.. so the ENTIRE Persian Gulf would be disrupted and in essence "embargoed"

"Here's where I think you're wrong. The IRI is hardly stable enough politically to long survive a real embargo. I remember the people in the streets that had to be suppressed. When they are hungry, as well, as upset over the stolen elections they might well decide they've had enough of their current leadership and the problems it brings them."

...even though there would be discontent with the Iranian Islamic government.. i dont think this embargo, would exactly destroy the mullah state overnight or in the medium term for that fact.. in the long term, i'm sure it could leed to a softening of its nuclear program.. but the hold of the Islamists on the states political and security apparatus coupled with a religious element.. would require nothing short of an armed insurrection to remove the mullahs, and with the US military positioned in the Gulf this might very well be an option in the future BUT not now.. which leaves us with Iran's original threat to close the straits of Hormuz OR at the very least, hinder oil traffic to the point of pushing oil prices through the roof..

...and with a limited oil and gas base in the world, and a thirsty China and India growing daily, it's a waiting game, on who can outlast the embargo.. and they wont be the only ones suffering if they decide to "close" the Persian Gulf.. 

 

 

 

 




 
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